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I personally think that when you get in the car you should get a city-wide radio message from a crime boss to get in doors because Batman is out driving. Thus you don't run into the running over people problem because all the crooks have hidden in doors, the car chasing still gets awkward but the tank drones work pretty well in theory. Honestly I think the car and tank are both really well designed, some of the later challenges for both are pretty awful at times but it's never unfairly so.
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Feb 24, 2016 14:42
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In Australia they recently made it harder to actually get the license. There's no rule about who has to teach you, although it's expected you'll get at least a few lessons with a certified instructor. After you take the initial computer test on road rules you have to do 25 hours of driving before you can take the practical test, then you have to do another 25 hours over a period of six months before you can do a Hazard Perception test which works on the idea that you get it 100% correct or you fail. Additionally permits only last 2-3 years, I cannot remember which. In batman related discussion I actually remembered that if you're driving around in the Batmobile a bunch of rioters do actually hide in doors, and most of the non-militia enemies disappear which is pretty close to what I suggested. Also batman seems to be fine with committing accidental killings, after all how was he to know the goon wasn't going to be picked up off the cold ground after being given a limp, he just refuses to directly kill people. Probably because like Superman once you directly kill one criminal it in theory becomes easier to make that your answer to every criminal, whether this is true or not doesn't matter because it's the idea that this is true that stops them both. To this end Batman doesn't use guns because he isn't planning to kill people, and it's a lot easier to accidentally kill someone with a gun than it is to kill someone with your fist/batarang.
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Feb 25, 2016 01:37
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Marshal Radisic posted:Y'all are arguing about how Batman doesn't kill anyone with his murdercar, but what I want to know is how bad things have to be in Gotham before Batman will finally swallow his pride and call Superman. I mean, c'mon Bruce. You saw him this morning on the space station. Just ask him. He'd probably be delighted to help. There's a sort of reason for this. Batman refuses to have Metahuman heroes work in Gotham, with the logic that as bad as Gotham is at least it's never been attacked by Doomsday/Brainiac or a Yellow Lantern. Basically if they agree to not overtly use their powers he's fine with them helping, but none of them are particularly good without said powers. Basically he thinks that letting Superman help would lead to villains only Superman could beat targeting Gotham, same thing with Green Lantern and Hawkman. Which considering most of the big name supervillains in Gotham are a direct result of a nutjob dressed as a bat making regular crime hard to do could end up being true. Also in this game I think Lex Luthor gets name dropped a bit so a Superman game set in the Arkhamverse might be thing. I don't know how good it would be but it can't be any worse than Superman 64. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Feb 25, 2016 |
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Feb 25, 2016 12:07
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I actually really like the slow degradation of the Riddler over the games. It feels very cathartic that every game this jackass who makes you hunt down trophies all over the place and bend over backwards to solve his silly little visual riddles gets more and more desperate to have something you finally cannot complete.
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Feb 26, 2016 01:59
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I live outside the US and I don't think that sounds stupid, or at least everything except the American Way bit. Also in regards to Captain America people see the name and forget that whilst he believes in America he also believes that if America is not doing the right thing he'll stop that too. Hence the Winter Soldier movie and what I imagine will be the Civil War movie. The thing about Captain America and Superman is they're fundamentally good people trying to do good things. It doesn't matter how you frame that as long as that's what they're doing. It's triumph over adversity. Compared to Iron Man who is not a fundamentally good person and Batman, who is not triumphing over adversity so much as holding it off a little longer.
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Feb 26, 2016 08:00
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I personally found it really confusing that the relationship was Barbara and Tim but I think the logic is twofold. Dick had already left chronologically by the time Barbara became Batgirl in this continuity so they never met, and Tim is around enough that a working relationship might have formed much like the comics had Barbara and Dick get together. It's not like it doesn't work in this game from memory.
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Feb 28, 2016 12:59
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There's a fine line between Batman being a dick and Batman being bad at interpersonal relationships. Usually he's the second because he compartmentalises those skills as things Bruce Wayne does. There's a part of this game which I think shows off this somewhat well and I'll bring it up when we get there but in general Batman/Bruce Wayne are very different people who do very different things and they avoid crossing the skills so as to not mess up the disguise or damage the already fairly damaged mentality that allows him to function as he does. Bruce Wayne is just as broken as his villains and if he had the choice he'd probably clean up all crime in Gotham and then sign himself into some sort of therapy because he's very aware that who he is isn't at all healthy. He actively avoids turning the robins and batgirls into himself usually because he knows just how bad his own mental state really is, he's just very good at disguising it to everyone else.
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Feb 28, 2016 16:58
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There's at least one story where Scarecrow drives someone to cowering and crying like a baby by just talking to him about his fears. He is still a psychiatrist and a psychologist, his obsession is fear in general. He just uses the toxin because it's easier, the aforementioned talking was in response to the realisation he's relying too heavily on the toxin.
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Feb 29, 2016 02:43
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To be fair he didn't look particularly beat up at the end there. He looked fully ready to go another 3 rounds but then Ivy dragged him off. So it's more Ivy solved the problem with bullshit plant powers rather than him outright losing to Quinn.
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Mar 1, 2016 05:02
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Pretty sure if you turn on detective mode that's Clayface. Might be wrong though.
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Mar 5, 2016 10:20
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Yeah the Oracle kidnapping isn't all that bad, especially as she uses it to her own advantage pretty quickly from memory. She's a person in a wheel chair that the enemy knows about and can target who lives in a secluded location whilst also being important to the enemies ability to think and plan on the fly. Her being targeted is a pretty logical choice for what amounts to a paramilitary organisation whose leader clearly has it in for Batman. Also the keeping Henry Adams locked up is meant to look bad, a large part of this game is just how far Batman has already fallen since City. The Tank is another example of that as it's a recent thing and definitely because Batman is getting Paranoid about protecting his city. Or at least more paranoid than usual. Another thing is Batman's allies are all pretty worried about him, both Oracle and Robin have questioned him already this evening compared to City where they seemed pretty okay with doing as he asked. I mean compare Robin's offer to help in City to this game, in City he says it once and is told that he's needed back in Gotham itself and agrees. Here he keeps at it for a good deal longer. Although the City thing is from memory and may be wrong.
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Mar 8, 2016 01:09
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Whilst it would've been nice to have a different hostage I personally find it more likely that Riddler somehow capture Catwoman than any other potential ally here. It's also interesting that whilst those captured are Oracle and Catwoman the reason they're captured is because they are indeed more vulnerable than most of Batman's other allies. Catwoman is a known figure amongst Gotham's criminal element who is mostly self-sufficient and just happens to be friendly with Batman more than an actual member of his bat-family, so abducting her is a lot easier for Nigma than say Robin or Nightwing. Meanwhile Oracle is actually not a known figure, so normally her being a cripple in a clock-tower doesn't matter, except the Arkham Knight knows where she is and knows how to get past her defence systems and decides to take out an important member of Batman's team and give him a reason to care. Without Oracle Batman has to rely on his own capabilities and those of Alfred, which in theory is a huge blow. It's still unfortunate that they wrote the game this way but they never suggest that they were abducted because they are women, they've been abducted because they're friends of Batman. I'm sure if the Knight could easily take Robin/Nightwing he would've but neither of them are in wheelchairs and as I mentioned Riddler only really has the option of abducting Catwoman for a hostage at short notice. Of course neither hostage is particularly needed to make Batman care but at least Arkham Knight actually wants to hurt Batman on an emotional level and Riddler is enough of a nutcase to believe he needs a hostage to make Batman pay attention to him over the much bigger threat of the Knight. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 01:06
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As I said it's not necessary and I don't agree with it I'm just supplying the sort of logic that reaches this point. I don't think this game needed the hostages in either case but can see where someone somewhere thought the choices were correct once the need for hostages was decided. I actually think Nightwing being the Riddler Hostage would've been hilarious and a lot better than what we got. You could even use the Harley story to explain it as them taking him when they rescue Poison Ivy, it's not like Ivy didn't have him in her viney grip. It would even make one of the other side missions pretty interesting too for reasons we'll discover soonish from memory. Oracle on the other hand doesn't really have a hostage replacement that would have the same story impact because part of it is driving a wedge between Gordon and Batman. But again her abduction is less about her and more about the Knight. Having him attack and her hide or escape would've done the same thing. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 01:50
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A big theme of this game in particular is Batman's own personal failings as a person and a hero. For example he probably knows exactly who the Arkham Knight is already, or at least has a pretty big idea, he just really doesn't want to believe it. He tries to work with others and just pushes them away because he's afraid he'll get more people hurt. He tries to clean up Gotham and it turns into a worse hell-hole than before. The Joker hallucination is a pretty good example of this actually, it's largely Batman talking at himself. The biggest problem is Batman doesn't just put up the implacable perfect crime-fighter image he believes it to some level, so every time something goes wrong it's his fault. Talia's death is him not being good enough, his parents getting shot is him not being able to save them, so on and so forth.
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Mar 13, 2016 03:43
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I think in a similar vein to the Central City ad there's one that says "FLY TO METROPOLIS".
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Mar 15, 2016 10:14
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The biggest reason some random cop doesn't just shoot the Joker, beyond the fallout of the other criminals thinking such a cop is a bad sort to leave alive, is that a big point of the Batman stuff is it is never right to sink to the level of criminals. The Joker also has far less kills in any given setting than expected because they keep resetting, and the few times he actually gets an exceptionally large number of personal kills are usually else worlds from memory. For example in the Arkham setting the number of deaths his actions are responsible for is about 30-40 I think, and that's from Origins through to City timeline wise. Of those maybe 5-8 are people he personally killed and a number of those were criminals working for or going to work for him and getting done in by other members of his organisation. It's also likely that he's only successfully broken out 2-3 times, the first was because of Harley and the last was the Blackgate prisoners creating a favorouble circumstance, he might have had another one in the middle but I have no idea. So yes the Joker is a monster, but he's also a legitimately unhinged person and the method of imprisonment they were going to implement in Asylum probably would've worked if not for the Blackgate Prisoners being in the facility and Harley breaking in whilst he was causing Mayhem and then letting them out so he can give Batman One Bad Night. Arguably the act most likely to convince a policeman to shoot him is attacking the daughter of the police commissioner and I don't actually think they ever got a chance because that would probably be when Batman starts driving him to Arkham in the Batmobile itself. I personally don't think killing the Joker would work, because thematically it falls flat. A cop doing it just means that Batman has failed in his own duty to clean up Gotham, at least to an extent because there's a cop who would shoot a criminal instead of arrest and detain one, ideally the Joker solution is to leave him rotting in Jail. Unfortunately he's stuck fast as the Arch-Enemy for Batman, which is it's own problem, and thus gets freed a lot more often than most of the other Bat Villains.
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Mar 19, 2016 23:01
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The Nyssa stuff isn't actually in the original game, which probably makes it worse that she dies in this case. I agree though that not saving Ra's Al Ghul is probably the ''correct'' choice. I still think Oracle's plot line is actually not that bad, at least not intentionally so. She's a vital part of Batman's system even if the game is bad at showing it and the fact that someone knew about her and successfully captured her is meant to make Batman scared of who the Knight is, or at least worried, because only someone who actually worked with him in the past would know about her. Catwoman and Riddler is pretty bad, and on further thought I actually wish it was Nightwing that Riddler has. The explanation for him being there given during the Harley Quinn DLC. It would certainly make a later side quest more interesting too, or at least funnier. Basically the Oracle stuff is probably a necessary evil although it could easily have shown up later then it does, Catwoman is interchangeable with any other ally and Nyssa shows a remarkable blindness to how the rest of the game was considering it was made afterwards.
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Mar 21, 2016 00:56
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He also dropped a massive contaminant, Clayface, in the thing. So it probably doesn't work anymore.
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Mar 21, 2016 01:21
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Everyone knows batman doesn't kill. But he went into the Joker's trap and walked out with a corpse. The general idea is much like Batman himself they're worried that this will be the time he does kill, after all he's a nutcase dressed like a bat, that's one step away from your average Gotham super criminal.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:25
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It's also possible that the Arkham Knight has told his thugs to give this information if pressured, or maybe he told this thug in particular. It'd certainly fit that he's trying to guide Batman in certain directions and they don't actually need Penguin any-more. As far as I understand it Penguin smuggled the weapons in and the Knight's Militia retrieved them, as they have the weapons Penguin is now a liability. Then again I thought it was rather fitting in a way. The Arkham Knight is intentionally mirroring Batman, but where Batman trains and moulds singular people and thus they are individually very skilled and hard to get information out of the Knight has mass produced relatively capable militia forces who aren't as individually capable from both a physical and mental standpoint.
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Mar 23, 2016 08:50
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Tiggum posted:With the number of people Batman's tortured for information over the course of this series, it should be fairly well known by now that giving up information doesn't help at all and he's still going to put you in the hospital. To be fair this is like the first time in memory Batman has actually physically tortured someone for information, in the past it's all been mental. Also him putting you in the hospital means nobody will suspect you squealed. The reason you squealed being that whilst being put in the hospital is bad having every bone broken in your body or whatever other ridiculous but non-fatal punishment Batman can come up with is almost certainly worse. Most of the big name criminals don't routinely kill henchmen, the one who did it most was Joker and he did so on his own internal whims more than anything else. Also for the most part you're threatening people the Riddler has paid to set up his stupid Riddles and they're thus more loyal to whomever they actually work for. Also a lot of people don't move out because it's either where they've always lived, they want to clean the town up, or they don't have the funds to leave. I mean a big thing is Bruce Wayne creates a lot of well paying jobs with his construction projects and company. Gotham's upper class is at this point Bruce Wayne, who has reasons for staying, Thomas Elliot, who has reasons for staying, and anyone associated with them who stay because they do. Meanwhile the Middle Class are all probably some variation of a Wayne Enterprise Employee or government official, and anyone who supplies skilled work for those two groups. Finally the Lower Class is probably where the majority of thugs come from, so they stick around because Gotham has good Thugging. Gotham is not actually as bad as these games portray, remember they're all single nights of a 10 year timeline, with presumably large periods between where you don't have a terrorist threatening to drive everyone insane.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:55
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You could also make a pretty great Arkham game based on Batman Beyond. Even gives a good reason for the upgrade/experience system. As you fight you prove yourself to whoever is supplying you and get better/more inventive with the gear.
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Mar 24, 2016 07:47
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So here's where the other half of Nightwing being trapped with Riddler would change a side-quest. Instead of having him as your backup against Penguin you'd have Catwoman, which would be interesting if nothing else.
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Mar 25, 2016 00:45
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I'd agree except it's not Batman torturing random people in the hopes they have information he wants. He knows they have the information and the fastest way he has of getting the information they have is threatening them with bodily harm. The car is a one-off that's meant to be seen as Batman taking things too far, not usual operating methods. If he had the time he'd definitely do some tech wizardry to work out where the knight is, but he doesn't have said time and his best tech user has been abducted from her home so he threatens a relatively high up member of the Knight's Militia. Usually it's people who are known to work for the riddler or have been seen working for the Riddler and he holds them still and threatens to hurt them unless they reveal what they did for the Riddler. Sometimes they'll attempt to hit him or break his hold first and run away and if they succeed you can't get information out of them because they aren't that intimidated, if they fail or don't even try Btaman intimidates them into talking about what work they did for Riddler. However Batman would never actually do what he's threatening to do to the riddler thugs, if they said they have nothing he'd probably just knock them out. They just never try to bluff because Batman has built up a very scary persona. Notably Batman usually just talks at people and they fold like wet paper, and in the case of the Militia Commander or whatever he was he takes it a step farther because the guy didn't immediately fold. Edit:Upon re-watching half the information gotten by threatening with the car is indeed bad, the Knight is nowhere near Penguin, although the Penguin is using the trucks. So the torture of the Militia member actually failed to provide Batman the information he actually wanted, and then it was a trap too. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 14:02
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I personally feel the game isn't saying Batman is the problem. It's saying Bruce Wayne is. It's arguing that whilst Batman should exist it shouldn't be Bruce Wayne because he's too far damaged to be effective. Interestingly every-one of his supporting cast except Alfred would at this point be a more emotionally and psychologically stable Batman. Robin, Nightwing and Barbara working together could do his job as long as he kept supplying the tools, all he adds is a dangerously damaged element and a leader figure. Batman only needs Bruce Wayne for tools, Bruce Wayne needs Batman because he's actually a deeply broken man. There's a scene in this game that I think shows his internal problems really well but it'll take a long time to get there. Also yeah a big thing about this game is Batman's allies and friends would probably do a lot better if he actually talked to and appreciated them instead of holding them at arms length and getting really controlling about what they do and don't know. I'm pretty sure the reason Barbara remained in Gotham was because he never set up safe locations for her beyond the clock-tower, because how would anyone know to look for her there and if they did Batman would, in his own mind, be able to protect her because she's in his city. Similarly he doesn't think to move her to the Bat-cave because in his own mind it shouldn't be necessary to put her there, even though it would actually be the best use of her as a resource because she'd have Alfred to order around instead of having to wheel about, speeding up her ability to work. Actually what's really interesting is we hear a bunch about how hard it was for the Militia to subdue Barbara, I'm pretty sure chatter or something reveals they only knocked her out when the Knight himself showed up to do so. Before that she'd been doing fine. Yet Batman never even thinks about this, he believes she was alone and scared and damaged. I mean he brings up her getting shot in the spine and lying broken and scared on the ground, but that's his own interpretation of the events and not necessarily the truth of the matter. I think a big point of this game is how Batman sees the world, compared to how it actually is. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 04:25
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There is something else about this DLC that people were a little bit miffed about. Namely they wanted a different partner for some interesting character stuff.
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Mar 31, 2016 00:04
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Yvonmukluk posted:Lemme guess - Dick as Robin? Not quite.
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Mar 31, 2016 10:00
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To be fair about Harley she would absolutely choose to wear sexualised or just plain sexy clothes because she wants the Joker to find her sexy. Doesn't excuse the other characters but Harley wearing intentionally sexy/form-fitting clothing makes sense. I haven't seen that batgirl redesign before and it's really good. It's the costume used in the Current comics right?
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Apr 2, 2016 14:42
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If you're doing an Arkham Beyond game instead of the Riddler leaving challenges for Batman it's Bruce leaving challenges for Terry. Sort of prove you have what it takes deal. That even fits the whole optional thing, you don't have to prove you're just as good as Bruce, but it would be nice to do so. Also means you don't have to have any hostages at all.
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Apr 3, 2016 09:58
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I think if they did something different with Catwoman it should have been her as a buddy for the Two-Face stuff. There's bound to be a good reason for her to fight him, maybe she wants to rob them at a later date and is using two-face as a cover to case it whilst helping Batman out. It certainly couldn't be worse than the Riddler plot line they gave her.
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Apr 6, 2016 07:50
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I think my favorite batman villain turned good story is when the Riddler becomes an actual private investigator to prove he is legitimately smarter than Batman by becoming the world's greatest detective himself.
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Apr 8, 2016 03:03
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The supposed reason he doesn't let the Justice League show up in Gotham is he's scared their villains will follow. Joker/Two-Face/Riddler/Croc/Penguin aren't all that destructive to be honest. But Bruce is scared that if Superman starts working in his city things like Brainiac or Doomsday might actually also show up. It's not logical but a lot of things about Batman aren't logical because he's literally a small child scared of guns dressing up as a bat because he watched his parents get shot. The Justice League do sometimes help out but they've been told they need to do it as if they don't have powers, so that people with powers don't show up that need them to stop them. Basically Batman is scared that if he brings in the Justice League then villains that need the Justice League members to solve will actually show up in Gotham and Batman hates the idea of a villain in his city he needs help to stop. It sort of falls apart in this case but the bombs are meant to be the reason nobody is helping out, funnily enough I don't think you can get all the bombs until nearly the end of the game.
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Apr 12, 2016 01:51
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I actually think the Arkham Knight fleeing the second things go wrong is pretty clever bit of personality showing. He's mostly bluster, much like Scarecrow Arkham Knight's greatest weapon is his voice. Scarecrow when he actually tries can drive people into cowering wrecks by talking, the toxin just means he can do it en masse. Meanwhile the Knight is mostly talking big to get his men to stick around, after all if he actually knew all of Batman's tricks and how to kill him why would he have an entire army and endless series of drones or take orders from Scarecrow. Similarly both are driven by fear in some way, what the Knight fears we don't know yet but it seems as if he's actively avoiding confrontations with Batman where he isn't in control. Meanwhile Scarecrow makes it so he's always in control by literally never being near you if he can help it. Neither of them want to be near Batman unless he's already being held down and controlled by someone else. They both fear the loss of control, and that's important. Much like Batman spiralling out of Control, or perhaps realising he never had it. The two main villains are also about control, and the loss thereof, and of course as Batman loses control the Joker gains it. Which in of itself is a nightmare scenario for Batman.
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Apr 12, 2016 20:54
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I think much like City this game takes place in a small area of Gotham itself. As far as I can tell these three Islands are meant to be the centre of Gotham, which is why GCPD central and Wayne Tower and the Cinemas are all here but other buildings can be seen in the distance, Wayne Manor for example is off in the distance somewhere. There's more city on the other side of the major bridges off the islands that have been shut down due to the evacuation. I'm guessing they've also evacuated the surrounding area but this was the first done because it's where the first attack occurred.
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Apr 13, 2016 17:37
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Maybe it was founded by Eastern European vampire immigrants? I'd believe that explanation for the name, but having just checked it was actually a small whaling town that tried to up-size into a manufacturing and shipping city and failed to really make that work, so crime grew. It's suggested that the reason it's worse is because in Bludhaven the rich are where most of the crime starts and it sort of trickles down ruining the city. Also they didn't have anyone like Gordon to clean up the police corruption so it still primarily exists until Nightwing starts working on it compared to Gordon already working hard to clean up GCPD when Batman starts being a vigilante. Back to the name though I guess it comes from all the blood that whaling presumably left around, I don't actually know much about whaling.
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Apr 14, 2016 16:04
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There are a few nitro boost upgrades, including one that does damage to vehicles if you ram them from behind, although that last thing might not actually be an upgrade.
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Apr 15, 2016 02:24
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I personally like the ideas in this game, they're just presented really poorly. Studying Batman/Bruce's whole I must be the hero and protect everyone mentality and seeing just how badly that mentality fails could be a very cool story theme, this game just has so many poor bat-decisions that it doesn't work all the time. I personally think that there are some good moments in this game, and for what it's worth I like the idea behind the people becoming the Joker, again it's the execution that's lacking. Heck Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight tag-teaming to bring Batman to his lowest point ever has good potential. Also yeah whilst Batman would've slowly become Joker anyway because he is infected like the other Jokers the hallucination is him being afraid of that happening. Interestingly from what I remember these guys have been cured of the bit that kills you, like Batman was at the end of city, it just turns out sometimes the disease messes with the brain as well and the cure from City doesn't fix that bit. At least that's how I understand this bit of plot.
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Apr 21, 2016 04:00
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Probably the Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman, neither of whom have a no kill thing. In fact as far as I remember only Batman and Superman have a strict no kill policy and for roughly the same reasons. Both know how easy it would be for them to become monsters if they did kill criminals, after all Batman is just as broken as his villains and Superman holds back so as to not scare the world of his strength.
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Apr 26, 2016 03:36
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So are you going to show the two secret things about Kirk? I personally only learnt about them by looking him up and they're rather easy to miss.
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Apr 28, 2016 01:41
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Yeah if you don't use detective vision and go for where it is if the Riddler cheats then it turns out he didn't cheat. If you think he didn't cheat he did, it's great.
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May 1, 2016 01:38
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