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Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

To lighten the mood, here's a bizarre response to the EU moving to sanction Poland that doesn't come from wacky Polish Nationalists:

quote:

Their democratically elected parliament was altering the system they use to interpret their laws. By definition not only is that sovereignty at a base level but also by definition that's the rule of law itself.

Thus the EC is fundamentally wrong here

I'm not sure how it's possible to be this blind.

Mind you, the person that said this also said that the only reason the EU was breaking off negotiations with Turkey was because of Islamophobia. And the proof of this was that many EU member states didn't meet their own definition of "democratic nations" that they were trying to hold Turkey to.

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Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Does Russian military procurement differ significantly from how the Soviets did things, or are they still coasting along on old ideas? I've spent so much time researching Cold War era stuff I've never really considered how things changed after 1991.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

alex314 posted:

I guess it's a result of rapid growth of their intel forces coupled with old guard moving to organized crime, private sector or retirement. Or the Petersburg mafia gets the pick of best dudes finishing academy. Their boss is the president, after all..

Could also be arrogance based on a propaganda -tinged view of past "successes."

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Watching Have I Got News For You and hearing about Brown Moses and Bellingcat is the weirdest thing.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Freelance blogger for Russia Today, one of the two main Russian propaganda mouthpieces aboard. Has boner for war crimes, the state of Russia, Brown Moses and his mother, and underage mail brides.

Was this the guy who forced his Russian "girlfriend" to get an abortion or am I thinking of another Kremlin shill.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

They thought they needed special forces for this?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Karmalis posted:

One of the main things in Russian regional provinces is the mindset of the people that the local government is terrible and can only be solved by an "authority" which in turn is usually simply "Putin" or the central Moscow government. So everyone hates the government but q lot of people love Putin.

"The Czar wants justice but the boyars resist."

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

So here's an interesting problem:

Scramble posted:

An-124s 'arrested'!

On 28 May 2019 the Podilskyi District Court of Kyiv arrested and prohibited the operation of five An-124-100 Ruslans, owned by Volga-Dnepr Airlines (Russia), after a motion filed by the Main Directorate of the National Police in Kyiv.

The court imposed grounding of An-124-100's owned by Volga-Dnepr Airlines (Russia) and Volga Dnepr Airlines (Ireland), namely, RA-82068 (msn 9773051359127, line 07-03), RA-82078 (msn 9773054559153, line 07-10), RA-82045 (msn 9773052255113, line 06-09), RA-82046 (msn 9773052255117, line 06-10) and RA-82077 (msn 9773054459151, line 07-09), and prohibited airlines and any other persons from their operation.

In addition, any third parties (airports, aviation authorities) are prohibited from carrying out any actions aimed at landing/take-off (arrival/departure) of these aircraft.

The reason for the court order is that following a complaint filed by SE Antonov (holder of the Type Certificate) the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine are investigating the fact that Rosaviation, as the developer of An-124-100 aircraft modifications and issuer of the Supplemental Type Certificate), has done so illegaly. The unlawful actions of Rosaviation resulted in the extension of airworthiness for An-124-100 aircraft operated by Volga-Dnepr Airlines – without due participation of SE Antonov – which jeopardised the safe operation of these aircraft.

State Enterprise Antonov is the Ukrainian state-owned enterprise, whose main activities include the development, production and repair of Antonov series aircraft.

I wonder if this could actually be enforced.

If anyone actually tried to there could be some impact, as Volga-Dnepr's An-124s regularly transport engines for Boeing, and have been contracted by the US military for heavylift on occasion.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

E:nm

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Telsa Cola posted:

The US during the cold war though our model had widespread nuclear fallout from the exhaust as a feature not a bug.

The fact that it was shelved by the US at the height of the cold war, ye time of the AIR-2 Genie and the Davy Crockett, would suggest the US even then realized that it was a bugfuck insane idea.

Which makes you wonder what primo poo poo the Russians have been smoking.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Budzilla posted:

This is very pathetic. Pretty funny when a foreigner comes in to Russia to rule them with an iron fist they can't stop themselves from worshiping them.

Except for the part where Stalin embraced Great Russian chauvinism in a way that few actual Russians managed to do, sure.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

cinci zoo sniper posted:

https://lenta.ru/news/2021/06/17/nespasateli/

:staredog: What the actual gently caress is going on there? :laffo:

Surely they don't expect anyone to actually believe that, right?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

steinrokkan posted:

It's a morally failed state.

Dude, this is a thread about Eastern Europe. I don't think Belgium can compete.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Mokotow posted:

Went to the beach today in Gdansk as part of my company Friday outings. Our foreign looking friends got shouted on for not speaking the proper language, and I got punched in the head by a drunk lady. The quintessential Polish summer expedience.

What is "foreign looking" in this context? I'm really curious.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Cugel the Clever posted:

What the gently caress is it with dictators and ludicrously long, rambling press conferences? Have any leaders from liberal democracies been known to do such a thing?

No one's going to tell them they look like a crazy person.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Antigravitas posted:

By the way, Poland is gearing up to make LGBT illegal. Like, all of it.

How would they go about doing this?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

For a brief moment I once had the thought "why did more than one collective farm leader become a post Soviet petty tyrant" until the obvious part hit me.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

VitalSigns posted:

I don't think the Jack Ryan fantasies that chickenhawk nerds are posting about poisoning Putin have much to do with NATO's reasoning.

NATO isn't going to do anything because (a) most NATO countries' militaries are only good for bullying goatherds in North Africa and the Middle East and they aren't even very good at that, and (b) while America can still fight a conventional war, 20 years of kids coming back in flag-draped coffins has soured everyone on pointless forever wars and the chickenhawks sending other people's kids to fight them, and it's going to be at least 20 years before anyone listens to the neocon chickenhawks again

"The evil imperialists bloated militaries are incapable of fighting a war against another military" is.... certainly a take.

Right up there in the rafters with "the perfidious CIA is everywhere...and also incompetent"

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

China's Xi reportedly backs Putin in Russia's bid for security guarantees from the West


here we go boys. The multi polar world is back in action.


мы никогда не будем рабами


Here's some more good stuff from the busy day of negotiations:

Zelensky discussed with the new German Chancellor Olaf Scholz the possible membership of Ukraine in NATO

(This will surely stop Russian aggression!)

Washington: Moscow has handed us proposals on European security, and we will discuss them with allies

Yeah this is going to go south really loving quickly now.

the Europeana discuss ukraines future as a NATO partner ? What the gently caress?

The alliance will be weakened by this wish washy poo poo. You will regret this!

Is there a reason you aren't using the quite function for this, because it makes it seem like word salad this way.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Al-Saqr posted:

It still makes me laugh how the Russians went to war with the ottomans in the Crimean war by saying “your Christian citizens are under our protection now, we represent them, they’re ours now”

How is that surprising? Defending the orthodox faith was a big thing for Imperial Russia.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

FishBulbia posted:

Both Ukraine and Russia in their current shapes were products of Soviet nationalities policies and became national identities via korenizatsiya

Ukrainian national identity predates the Soviet union by several decades.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

FishBulbia posted:

Smith is just an attempt to rehabilitate debunked primordialism by adding an extra step. "Nations haven't existed forever, by ethnie has!"

Yet he also seemingly accepts modernization theory, always placing the French revolution as a keep step in transforming ethnie into nation. He mainly engages with a complete strawman argument that Hobsbawm and Anderson supposedly say nation emerges from nothing. This is false. And he argues against this strawman by saying that tradition and ritual (not to mention language) always existed, something that no modernist denies. Indeed his main contention with Anderson seems to be the book's title, I seriously wonder if he read past it as he also accuses Anderson of being "western-centric."

Among serious nationalism scholars modernization is still predominant. Although primordialism certainly dominates the public sphere. The mobs that will literally assault anyone expressing uncomfortable constructivist views show this.

Do you have anything from anyone with a background in history for this, or is it just tedious sociologists?

Because I'd suggest Serhii Plokhyy's works.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Red and Black posted:

There are a ton of reasons to disregard Applebaum. She's a right wing crank, who associates with far right nationalists in both in the US and Poland.

Do you have actual evidence of this? Because from what I've seen she is more than critical of the deteriorating state of Polish governance.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Red and Black posted:

The Nation's profile on her shows some of this:

It's true that she tries to present herself as a centrist, but it's worth noting the company she keeps as she writes right-wing propaganda about Soviet history. And even if we didn't know about her associations with fascists, the quality of her "research" speaks for itself.

Which ignores that this was 20 years ago, and I also love throwing Boris in there as though he's some kind of supervillain.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

lollontee posted:

i would like to hear how the hell russia couldnt see Imperial behaviour towards russia, and quite literally in russia during the yeltsin occupation, as hostile. because i keep reading posts where i feel like the implication is that the west hasnt made any hostile military or economic moves towards russia since the soviet union fell

Russia is preparing to invade a neighboring country because they want a sphere of influence like it's 1945 again, and the west are the imperialist ones how?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

QuoProQuid posted:



brave fighters against the forces of imperialism and fascism itt

What is this from

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

lollontee posted:

your paranoid delusions of russian invasion of ukraine do not argument good make

although there is something to be said of the ability of certain people to psycically will things upon reality, such as wmd's and reasons for ukrainian armed nazis to try and move the front lines

So the massing of Russian troops on the border with Ukraine, and the deployment of 6 landing ships from the Black Sea fleet is for...?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

lollontee posted:

those partisans popped out of these graves

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2014/9/22/in-pictures-destruction-in-ukraines-luhansk/

ukrainian nazis started this war by driving over peaceful protestors with tanks, and thats why luhansk and donetsk are willing to accept help from anyone to avoid falling under the rule of murderers and nazis

What part of "armed militants attempt to seize control of local governments" constitutes "peaceful protest?"

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

lollontee posted:

what goal posts, you just posted a series of wikipedia links and something about.... what biden said during the early conflict? but yeah, when you got ethnic massacres going on, a separatist rebellion is kinda the inevitable result

And your evidence for said ethnic massacres is?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

CommieGIR posted:

I'll let another mod deal with it: Answer the question. Where is the claim of Ethnic cleansing come from? On what basis? Mysteriously, the claims of Ethnic Cleansing didn't occur until AFTER Yunokovich fled and Russia was already caught on tape openly planning the annexation of Crimea.

Russia has ENTIRELY claimed there was a risk to "Ethnic Russians" in Donbas, literally pulling a card from the Invasion of Poland to justify Russian support for an insurgency. Its also funny given that the SBU and Ukraine has openly caught Pro Russian Nazis trying to stir up violence in the past

Huh. I didn't know the Black Hundreds had cropped up again. Wikipedia only has an entry for the Tsarist-era ones.

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Wikipedia posted:

In 1942, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin became aware of Chizhevsky's research work, including Physical Factors Of The Historical Process, and Chizhevsky was asked to retract his writings on solar cycles, which contradicted Soviet theories of the reasons for the Russian revolutions of 1905 and 1917.

Alright, this makes me curious...what the gently caress did the Soviets think solar cycles had to do in any way with the revolutions of 1905 and 1917?

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

a podcast for cats posted:

What are the thread recommendations for accessible and not too dated documentaries about the collapse of the USSR or the aftermath of that?

I'd like to throw a couple of links at someone, but realised that I don't actually know of any.

Serhii Plokhyy's The Last Empire: The Final Days of the Soviet Union is good, though it's been a while since I read it.

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Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Cpt_Obvious posted:

I don't think you can really separate the very long and very brutal history of antisemitism in the Ukraine from it's current predicament. The centuries of pogroms and paramilitary groups that the Ukraine has been responsible for are not anomalous but rather a very clear pattern that continues to this day. The cossacks, for example, were notorious in their cruelty to the Jewish people.

Does that mean every Ukrainian is a Nazi? Of course not. Does that mean Russia should invade them? Lol no. But you just can't pretend that doesn't exist, and probing people for pointing out that this long running tradition of hatred still exists serves only to run cover for worst people on the planet.

And this history is unique to Ukraine, and not the entire Russian Empire....how?

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