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burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

A Pale Horse posted:

One more thing. The new justice minister is doing away with the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine, meaning any evidence gathered illegally will be admissible in court. :psyduck:

This country is becoming a sick joke.

Do you have sources for this and other similar greatest hits of PiS's new glorious rule? My dad keeps sending me :smug: emails over "look at how evil PiS is, they give benefits for families with kids, the horrors!" so while it won't change his mind or anything, it would make me feel much better to have sources to respond with "lol who needed rules of evidence anyway".

I mean, as a PiS supporter you can imagine the conspiracy theories he subscribes to and he'll probably praise throwing out fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine as "PO made up ridiculous evidence rules to stop PiS from prosecuting commie mutant traitors! GLORY TO THE FATHERLAND!" but I'd like to think if he's so obsessed with getting rid of corruption in Poland, a functioning justice system would be kinda important to him.

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burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Lichtenstein posted:

Is he a Duda Assassination Attempt truther? Because I'm kinda enamored with the fact this is a thing that exists.

(for non-Pole goons: president's car caught a flat tire two days ago. It is Serious Business.)

Sadly I haven't gotten a chance to find out yet :(. I know my mom is hardcore Russia assassinated Lech Kaczynski truther, and she really loves Duda so unless he's making rounds outright saying "no seriously, it was just a faulty tire, these things happen" (which I strongly doubt he is), she's probably onboard that train.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

A Pale Horse posted:

I have sources but they're in Polish and if your family is rabid PiS fanatics they will reject them because they come from the traitorous "German" media. There's not a concise summary of changes implemented by PiS that I know of and your people would probably think most of those are positive changes if they have that ideological bent.

Yeah, true, probably a wasted effort :(. He's not quite as rabid as my mom is, and will agree stuff like PiS's foreign policy is somewhere between idiotic and suicidal, and social conservativism is stupid, but he has definitely mentioned the "German" media thing (wherein all news sources criticizing PiS are owned by Germans and spread anti-PiS propaganda) and has praised stuffing the Supreme Court with more judges (because judges appointed under PO were a poison pill to undermine PiS's efforts to root out corruption, you see).

I don't know whether to stop following Polish news because it's just all bad, or keep following it so my only source of information on Poland doesn't become my parents who um aren't a reliable source.

E:

Gantolandon posted:

It's worth pointing out that they only give you money for your first child if you earn less than PLN 800 per month, per person within your family (1200 if your child is disabled). This is a massive "gently caress you" towards single parents. You also lose the right to the money if your son and daughter has children themselves.

The people who could use the additional money the most, won't get poo poo. It's Catholic families with lots of children that are supposed to benefit from this program.

Ah, grand :tipshat:. I kept seeing it referred to as a flat benefit for having kids, good to know it's more like a benefit for giant families (with a stay at home mom most likely) than helping out struggling poor single parents.

burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Mar 7, 2016

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
Is there anything the court could do to compel the PM to publish the verdict? I guess there's the nuclear option of saying "publish it or don't, we're going forward with the assumption this verdict is binding".

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

alex314 posted:

More :poland: news: former member of Europarliament Maciej Giertychis promoting a book that claims theory of evolution is false and T-Rex has lived beside Homo Sapiens, up until the Deluge...

Not gonna lie, T-Rex fighting knights is a great hook for an alt-history fiction series. I can understand wanting that to be real.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Gantolandon posted:

The Pope, in a gesture of humility, washed feet of some refugees. A lot of Polish Catholics didn't take it well.

Some Facebook quotes:

  • "This is a betrayal of Christ and Christianity."
  • "Antipope, betrayer of Jesus Christ the King."
  • "We don't want the Antichrist in Krakow." (the Pope is supposed to visit the city during the World Youth Day)
  • "This leftie pretending to be the Pope is going to try to make us to accept terrorists!"
  • "Is this senility?"
  • "He's loving dangerous!"
  • "Muslims got their feet washed... probably for the first time in their life."
  • "Washing the feet of 12 men is supposed to memorize how Christ washed the feet of the Apostles... and here we have some women and pagans."

These are the same people who usually present themselves as ultra-orthodox and maintain that you have to completely adhere to everything a priest teaches you to be even a passable Catholic.

"We need to keep Muslim refugees out to preserve Catholic Polish culture. Also, gently caress the Pope, he's a pagan antichrist communist."

Someone get some Evangelicals over to Poland stat. I'd apologize for advocating making Poland worse, but you'd barely notice the difference. It would just be hilarious to see Protestantism spring up in Poland, because the Pope treated some Muslim refugees as people :allears:.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Gantolandon posted:

Or that gay activist who got pissed at PO they don't support civil partnerships enough and supported Duda during presidential elections as a protest.

Ah yes, in protest of this party abandoning any effort to advance gay rights, I want people to vote for this dude who wants to repeal what few rights we have :psyduck:.

Part of me is still really worried that PiS will somehow stabilize or there won't be a good party to pick up disillusioned PiS voters (Nowoczesna becomes the new PO? Kukiz'15 gets their chance to self destruct? Poland feels the bern and votes Razem?) but it's good to hear PiS somehow found an issue to go too far right on.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
While #7 is still high, I'm surprised Hungarians aren't higher, with PiS wanting Poland to become Super Hungary.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Palpek posted:

It's because only PiS loves Orban, there is literally nobody in the street going "oh boy, why can't we be more like Hungary" no matter how conservative. It's such a non-existing sentiment that it's not even funny.

The positive connotations with Hungary are more deep-rooted and have nothing to do with its current government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_and_Hungarian_cousins_be

:v: I often forget my very conservative family that loves Duda, Orban, and all things PiS is actually not indicative at all of Poland overall.

Also, yeah thinking back, that list is far easier explained by Poles having deep historical and cultural ties to places like Hungary and Czech Republic than Poles wanting Poland to be more like CR, USA, and Hungary all at once (but also be nothing like Turkey)

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

sparatuvs posted:

What I never got about the Smolensk theory is how is Russia supposed to benefit from killing the president of Poland? At least 9/11 truthers make some deluded sense about needing 9/11 to justify wars.

Ironically, the conspiracy theory works far better if you assume the President was collateral damage, and the main targets were all the military officers aboard the plane. It's still nonsense, to be sure, but if you already take it as a given that Russia is always looking to either conquer or at least gently caress with Poland as much as possible, assassinating military officers seems like something Russia would be very interested in doing.

Of course, if Poor Plucky Poland is the center of the universe, the Kaczyńskis are the center of the Poland galaxy.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

OddObserver posted:

"Russia isn't going to invade Ukraine", " Russia isn't going to annex Crimea" ---- lots of people slightly over 2 years ago. Having enough of a military that Russia can't even think of a fait accompli is one way of actually making the prediction true.

Unless Ukraine joined NATO slightly over 2 years ago, it's still not that compelling of evidence. It'd be like saying because America invaded Iraq, North Korea is next. Invading random politically isolated nations is nothing like invading nations with explicit mutual defense pacts with nuclear superpowers.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

OddObserver posted:

Well, neo-fascists seem like the fastest growing market segment in Europe these days, so the second category might just be soulless capitalists instead. :shrug:

Soulless capitalists, aka fascists who want to pretend they're smarter than other fascists.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

GreyjoyBastard posted:

God drat it. :mad:

I'd been hoping that the status of the Tatars would be one of the fairly few bright spots in this whole kerfuffle.

Not to dogpile you, but you thought that Crimea being annexed by Russia via ultranationalist militias would somehow lead to an improvement in the situation for an ethnic minority in that region?

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
Is that dude posing for a photo with Russian militiamen and also claims he's a gonzo journalist? That's about as gonzo as a photo of you high-fiving Nixon.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

The_Franz posted:

We won't forsake the land we came from,
We won't let our speech be buried.
We are the Polish nation, the Polish people,
From the royal line of Piast.

They could have just posted the condensed original German version of that prayer. It's only about half as many words long!

29/2 = 14 rounding down, 14 words

Admittedly the picture wasn't really white supremacist in any way but hardcore football fans posting that kind of "Poland for Poles" nationalism and white supremacists have significant overlap.

burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jun 17, 2016

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
See also: "Born in the USA", which sounds like the musical equivalent of masturbating to the American flag until you look past the chorus and see oh, it's a song about how garbage the Vietnam war was. But oftentimes all you hear of the song is just the intro and the first chorus so you don't get to those parts.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
As someone who is not an expert in anthems, America's is the ugliest, and the tendency to have it sung by just one person at major events makes it worse. Battle Cry of Freedom is my vote for best replacement national anthem.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
A reminder btw that the original post that started this discussion was:

Cat Mattress posted:

So Oliver Stone is making a movie to reveal that the Maidan upraising of Ukraine was staged by the CIA to put in power a bunch of homonazis and that only Putin's manly arms are defending freedom and civilization. Wake up, sheeple!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVdvp188rk4

Even if McCain was personally ordered by Obama to go to Maidan and spread word of America's support, that still hardly counts as "Maidan was staged by the CIA".

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

steinrokkan posted:

So Russia is providing the NATO with an argument for its strengthening and for integrating Russia's neighbors, conveniently just ahead of a major summit? That's very kind.

Not exactly. NATO isn't going to go to war with Russia over gas being cut off, and NATO doesn't supply anyone gas and doesn't have any members that could replace Russia as Poland's gas supplier.

Granted it does remind these countries "Russia's a dick and your gas supply from them depends entirely on Putin's mood", but unless NATO has any solutions for getting these countries off of gas or finding them a new supplier, NATO can't do much.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

GreyjoyBastard posted:

I was really hoping that at least the Russians would treat the Tatars okay. :negative:

In my experience, ultranationalistic irredentist militias and ethnic minorities mix poorly.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
Skimming their headlines, I'd say Sputnik is like a more blatant RT. Both are pretty clearly Russia propaganda fronts, but RT has a better mix of headlines on their front page that don't immediately scream propaganda, like the viral section or a piece on water on Mars. Sputnik has a lot fewer of those and a lot more "Does Amerikkka want to declare war on China or Russia first?".

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Xerxes17 posted:

Can't wait for the NKVD 1936г DLC :ussr:

Wild Leon Trotsky appeared!

Items -> Ice Pick

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

alex314 posted:

Russian military is enough to kick all NATO countries in EE combined. I'd rate their chances pretty high even with Germany included. Please remember they are pretty battle hardened and have a big personnel reserve for protracted engagement.

Unless Russia is willing to commit to a full World War-like war, their personnel reserves don't mean much. The conflicts they've been involved with in the recent past have been counterinsurgencies and quick smash and grabs on their neighbors, not drawn out wars with casualties in the millions. Any kind of hypothetical war with NATO nations would either need to be repeats of Georgia or Ukraine where they grab a small strategic regions using a small number of soldiers, or a giant unpredictable WWIII.

As for battle hardening, even if that meant anything, by that standard they're about as battle hardened as the Polish army is from Iraq.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Brown Moses posted:

I should send him a bouquet for all the traffic he drove to our site.

Make sure it's an even number of flowers.

(IIRC there's something about how in Russia, even numbers of flowers are only given for a funeral so giving it to someone for non-funeral reasons is considered rude)

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

Cat Mattress posted:

I can't imagine Putin would choose "protecting homosexuals" as his casus belli for a new round of war against the Chechens. It'd be contrary to all the policy changes that happened under his governments wrt. homosexuality.

I could potentially see "Kadyrov has become an Islamic fundamentalist, while we all agree homophobia is great his death squads are not the civilized man's way of repressing them". That, the Chechen volunteers for ISIS and the Ukrainian war, and Kadyrov's general wackiness like holding that MMA tournament with kids could be used to portray him as an ISIS sympathizer without having to say anti-LGBT violence is bad.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

forkboy84 posted:

As someone who has watched far too much Russian MMA, wasn't it "just" 3 individual kids fights rather than a tournament?

Ah, right. I remembered it was a whole big event and assumed that meant it was a whole tournament. It was just a series of single fights between his kids and some other kids (along with the aforementioned adults tournament).

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
Any idea how big the women's strike is? And like, is it organized via any of the unions, or is it "calling in sick" striking? Sorry if it's a dumb question, I don't have any good media sources for any of this.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
Borcht is not great but wigilijna borscht was always my favorite Christmas food. The one with those small mushroom dumplings in them.

Granted that was also because the only other Christmas food I had was basically Thanksgiving food but still.

burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Yeah, I’m waiting for nukes to be mentioned before I melt down.

Growing up I had a friend who would talk about how much poo poo America could do militarily if it wanted to and would reply to any counterarguments about "how many Americans do you think will die just to stop China from violating American IP or whatever" with some theory about how America could drop nukes down fault lines in the plates to destroy the world and I'm happy to say 15 years later, he still set the par for me for discussions about how militaristic geopolitics work.

Put another way, I don't know how people look at the world today and conclude the super/regional powers have the capacity/popular support for drawn out warfare.

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burnishedfume
Mar 8, 2011

You really are a louse...
It's me, I was the Hitler all along. Sorry about the confusion.

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