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Arglebargle III posted:The idea is that the first shot of the engagement is probably going to be the last shot, no matter how fancy your armor. That is quite wrong from what I know. Few years ago during war games in Poland an Abrams tank put five slugs info front turret armor of decomissioned Polish PT-91 (lovely t72 knockoff inferior in every way to T90 and T72B3) and none penetrated. Distance was 1300 metres, and modern DU penetrators were suposedly used. And that ignores additional factors like moving targets, active defences and so on. In the second Chechen war Russians had tanks returning to base after 8 ATGM hits.
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Mar 8, 2016 10:21
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Warbadger posted:This is probably a reference to some testing referred to by a speaker at a Janes conference talking about German/US testing done at Heide with some tanks mounting Kontackt-5. It's generally been used as a talking point for the effectiveness of K-5. There were no specifics about the type of tank in the account, though the internet now has many theories! The test I heard about was in Drawsko, and Polish tank had ERAWA type ERA, so probably not it. Story was told by guy who had a cask of whisky riding on the result, supposedly. Murgos posted:Stupid americans! Can't even penetrate the front armor 45 year old knock off tanks! If you haven't noticed, I am arguing against complacency, not repeating Russian propaganda... People in Poland who know alot about tank warfare are right now concerned that we have exactly one weapon system that can harm new Russian hardware - Israeli-licensed Spikes. redscare posted:You sure those weren't RPG hits? Because that's a totally different game than ATGMs and the Chechens wouldn't have had much of anything other than RPGs in the 2nd war.
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Mar 8, 2016 19:58
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This is quite revelant to the military chat: As you can see, Polish military is about twice as big as rest of the EE countries armies combined, but still far cry from Russia. Even after two years of Russian scare, military budgets of most of eastern Europe remain pitiful.
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Apr 14, 2016 10:41
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alex314 posted:But as Poland you don't need a blue water navy, nuclear deterrent, global logistical reach or long range bomber/missile forces, AKA global power tax. I agree, and thanks to that Russia's advantage in ground and air forces is "only" around 4:1. Still more than enough unfortunately. There is no realistic scenario in which we Poles can defend ourselves from Russia in absence of NATO forces, or rather American ones. I rather doubt if other European militaries have any serious capability to intervene within a timeframe of few weeks it would take Russia to march to Oder River. That said, Russian invasion is completely impossible as long as NATO exists.
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Apr 14, 2016 12:41
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