|
Plan Z posted:Fair points. I guess I meant it "legit" in terms of "it could compete in some capacity." The exact stats on any given tank don't matter that much any more. It's not like these are Panthers and Shermans duking it out in the hedgerows of Normandy. Kontakt 5 and Shtora are primarily there to save the crew and secondarily to make the tank recoverable. On a battlefield with AT artillery and 3rd generation ATGMs glued to everything and scout drones loitering overhead, sticking around in a tank that has been hit once but not obviously knocked out is not a great idea. US doctrine has revolved around the idea that "if you can see it you can kill it" and vice versa for 20 years now, and there's nothing to suggest that this is a mistake. The difference between a Challenger 2, an Abrams or a T-90 are pretty marginal in that context. That's why NATO tank design tends to focus on fire control and the latest packages include laser warning sensors that automatically pop off the smoke mortars. The idea is that the first shot of the engagement is probably going to be the last shot, no matter how fancy your armor. Again, this means that the exact capabilities of tanks are not that important in the field. So in a sense the T-90 is about as good as any other modern tank, but you can bet that the US will clown on any country buying export T-90s because of their huge advantage in precision fire support and battlefield networking. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Mar 8, 2016 |
#
¿
Mar 8, 2016 02:54
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 11:40 |
|
|
Kiejzar posted:That is quite wrong from what I know. Few years ago during war games in Poland an Abrams tank put five slugs info front turret armor of decomissioned Polish PT-91 (lovely t72 knockoff inferior in every way to T90 and T72B3) and none penetrated. Distance was 1300 metres, and modern DU penetrators were suposedly used. And that ignores additional factors like moving targets, active defences and so on. In the second Chechen war Russians had tanks returning to base after 8 ATGM hits. Do you have a source? The larger point is though, the whole idea of having a pair of tanks facing off and shooting each other in the turret face is a lousy basis for comparison. I doubt that thing about Russian tanks taking 8 ATGM hits without even suffering a mobility kill (nothing hit a track even once?) but some rebels with 1980s Fagot launchers is not a networked opponent with air support, precision artillery, and fancy ATGMs with features like top-attack. Even if you can survive a turret face hit from a 120mm gun inside 1.5 km it would be dumb to base doctrine on the idea that your tanks will survive being seen and targeted by a peer opponent. This thinking is sort of the same as yours in that you envision a worst-case scenario on the attacker side and plan from there, but from the perspective of protection the situation is tilted against protection. You might be nervous about getting a kill on a Russian tank, but you've got multiple attacks per tank. The protection guys are way, way more nervous about taking a hit because you only get one tank per tank.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2016 23:40
|
|
|
Friendly Humour posted:Professionals already have all the answers. Have you not been paying attention to anything ever?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2016 04:46
|
|
|
So do I have this right, the sitting prime minister of Poland has not-so-secretly accused the sitting president of murdering his twin brother, the previous president?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2016 01:01
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:My favourite bit is they actually broadcast the bit where I called the Russian MoD liars and said they were absolutely disgusting. I have to say, this internet wall is not doing anything good for BBC as a news outlet. They're pretty much killed themselves as far as the rest of the world is concerned. I had to try two whole proxies before I could watch it. 
Somebody fucked around with this message at 06:52 on May 5, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 5, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
Putin couldn't have disrupted this thread any better if he'd tried.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
grate deceiver posted:Why yes, I'd love to come to work on saturday. I'm sure it has nothing to do with an anti-government march planned on the same day. Just an unfortunate coincidence, yup Taking a page from ye Chinese playbook.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Bashar al-Assad has got to have the highest kill count of any optometrist in history. And that's counting 18th century doctors!
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
That does sound like a major industry being shipped to Russia Stalin style.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 7, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
AceRimmer posted:I hope that Ukranian leaders realize that they must not allow a tractor gap! Capital transfer to a country under sanctions for an ongoing occupation of one's own territory seems a legitimate thing to block, especially in heavy industry. Right? I mean you'd think they'd nix this deal if it was toys, but tracked vehicles?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 7, 2016 07:46
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:I've asked this specifically of people who go on about "CIA INVOLVED!!" and it's always something incredibly vague like "some of the protesters learned how to organize protests from the CIA!" or "The US government gave subtle encouragement to the protesters" like just vague moral support. They never realy have much to say about it being a fairly spontaneous mass event made up of mostly common people sick of their corrupt lovely government. You could say some of the current people in power now took advantage of this movement to further their own interests, and that the nebulous "the west" some how "supports" these politicians in some way. To be fair a bunch of European leaders visited Kiev to show support for the protests and it was a huge PR blunder and gift to the Russians/Donbass Reverse Revanchists. Europe was rhetorically on the side of the Maidan at the very least.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2016 02:26
|
|
|
Lol if you think the illuminati will stay bought with the reptilians breathing down their necks. Who do you think is doing Brexit?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
There's one NATO country that has recently begun exporting a lot of LNG.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2016 04:40
|
|
|
Yeah the absolute cratering of solar power prices is one of the great unreported stories of the last few years
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2016 06:15
|
|
|
Will the Russian terrorism law change anything de facto?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
The point of a tripwire is that the allies can't back out when Russia just killed a battalion* of their own guys. *or whatever
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2016 18:29
|
|
|
Doesn't HATO account for like 70% of world defense spending?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2016 18:29
|
|
|
Romania looking more like Carthagania right now.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
2 is a small number tho.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2017 18:23
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:50 times more than in Sweden. Sweden is a small country so that's not too concerning.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2017 18:33
|
|
|
Dwesa posted:If you live in sub-Saharan Africa, then yes. Are you saying the European race can't do math?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2017 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 11:40 |
|
|
Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Yes, but 98% of the population is still HIV-negative and that's a really huge number. That's almost 100%, if you think about it Thank you. It's amazing how some people fail to comprehend the simplest of facts.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 5, 2017 00:49
|
|