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Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

my stepdads beer posted:

Lol at the misleading scale
If that's the extent of your critic then :shrug:

Ah the regretforgetful Cardinal Pell:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/george-pell-meets-with-pope-francis/7209372

quote:

Cardinal George Pell says 'I have the full backing of the Pope' as testimony spotlight continues By Europe correspondent Lisa Millar in Rome, staff Updated about an hour ago

Key points:

Cardinal Pell met the Pope yesterday, after his first four-hour session of giving evidence
International media, including Italian reporters, have been covering the hearing
Expected focus today will again be on Ballarat and period from 1973 when Cardinal Pell was a priest
Australia's highest-ranking Catholic arrived at Rome's Hotel Quirinale this morning ahead of another session giving video evidence to the commission on what he knew about abuse committed by Catholic priests.

What did Pell know?
Key points from his latest testimony to the royal commission about Monsignor John Day's abuse of children in Mildura in 1971/72

Heard "gossip" about Day regarding a "great scandal," but "in those days", if a priest denied abuse he was strongly inclined to accept it.
"Can't recall" being told Day had a "love of young boys" or of hearing rumours of Day taking children on car trips and molesting them.
Couldn't remember any lay person mentioning rumours of Day's abuse to him, but "they might have."
Became aware of the allegations in August 1972, following the publication of a newspaper article.
Background: At the time, Cardinal Pell was a priest in Swan Hill, about 200 km away.
About the abuse of children at schools in Ballarat East

He said he was told that Brother Gerald Leo Fitzgerald was kissing children but "the general conviction was it was harmless enough."
Knew Brother Fitzgerald had taken boys on bike rides and swum nude with them and considered that "unusual" and "imprudent."
Had not heard about Brother Stephen Francis Farrell "exposing himself" to children.
Background: Cardinal Pell was Episcopal Vicar for Education in Ballarat from 1973-1984.
About the abuse of children at schools in Ballarat East (cont'd)

Had said he'd never heard of the term "bum buddies" and agreed that if children had been labelled that it "certainly suggested" abuse.
Never came to his attention that Brother Ted Dowlan had a reputation for putting his hands down boys' pants.
Had heard "fleeting references" to Dowlan which he concluded "might be paedophilia activity."
Background: Cardinal Pell was Episcopal Vicar for Education in Ballarat from 1973-1984.
About Father Gerald Ridsdale's abuse of children

He said he'd heard Ridsdale had taken groups of boys away on camps and overnight trips and that considered that "unusual, but not improper."
Never knew that Bishop Ronald Mulkearns had knowledge of allegations against Ridsdale in the 70's or 80's.
Bishop Mulkearns' handling of Ridsdale (moving him to other parishes) was "catastrophic" for victims, as well as the church.
Background: Ridsdale was convicted of dozens of counts of sexual abuse against children in Western Victoria

The cardinal met Pope Francis yesterday, after his first four-hour session of giving evidence.

"I have the full backing of the Pope," he told reporters outside the hotel. Cardinal Pell's office said the regularly scheduled meeting was in regard to his work as head of the Vatican Treasury. Cardinal Pell was listed on official Vatican records as the Pope's last visitor for the morning before he left for lunch. It has not been confirmed if the subject of his royal commission testimony was raised in conversation. During a video link hook up on Monday (Australian time), Cardinal Pell said he did not know about sex abuse allegations which had been covered up, but he described the handling of them as "catastrophic" for both the church and victims. He also said he was not going to try to "defend the indefensible". Cardinal Pell left the Hotel Quirinale at 3:00am (local time) and was meeting with Pope Francis later that morning.

International media, including Italian reporters, have been covering the hearing.

The daily newspaper, La Repubblica, made note of the fact that Cardinal Pell is the most senior leader in the church to face this kind of questioning. It is expected the focus today will again be on Ballarat and the period from 1973 when Cardinal Pell was a priest. Survivors of child abuse who have travelled from Australia intend on being in the audience again. It has been a gruelling experience for everyone, with media commitments keeping them busy until well after 4:00am. Anthony and Chrissie Foster said they were looking forward to some more detailed questions. They discovered the book about their daughters, who were both abused in the church, had been translated into Italian and was selling well. They said the trip to Rome had been worthwhile because of the attention they had been able to draw to the issue in Australia.
Apparently Pell had 44 individual lapses of his memory.

A crock of crocadile tears:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/indigenous-body-'frustrated'-by-turnbull-'rhetoric'/7209434

quote:

Indigenous body frustrated by Malcolm Turnbull's 'rhetoric' during tearful NITV interview AM By Lindy Kerin Updated about 2 hours ago

The country's peak elected representative body for Indigenous Australians says it is less than impressed by the Prime Minister's latest comments on Indigenous affairs.

Key points:

National Congress says it has been waiting for meeting with PM since he took office
Turnbull says "every PM a PM for Indigenous Affairs"
Vote on constitutional recognition an option for May 2017
In an extensive interview with Stan Grant on National Indigenous Television (NITV), Malcolm Turnbull said there was "no silver bullet" to overcoming Indigenous disadvantage and reiterated that he wanted to work with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

At one point during the interview the Prime Minister was moved to tears over a story of Indigenous separation, and the demise of traditional language. But the National Congress of Australia's First Peoples says it has been waiting for a meeting with the Prime Minister since September last year. Congress co-chair Rod Little said his organisation first sought a meeting with Mr Turnbull when he took over the job in September last year. "There was a tinge of hope," he said. "But now there's the rhetoric that's come back, that I've always seen when there's a change in leadership. You have some hope that things are going to change, but there's not much hope there. We saw the opportunity in his words, when he was saying he wants to have this renewed relationship. But that kind of commentary has been around again and again, for many, many governments that I know. If you want to have a relationship with the First Peoples then a logical start point would be with the elected representative body." Mr Little said he still hoped his organisation could meet with the Prime Minister. "I am disappointed but I'm optimistic," he said. "I'm reaching out and saying look, we are here. We want to do things. Things have to be done by us, for us, with us. Now look, I'm optimistic. I'm frustrated because I see the same kinds of comments … time and time again, and the results of that rhetoric is the results that we have today — no closing of the gap, no, high incarceration rates, high suicide levels — all of those things."

'Every PM is a PM for Indigenous affairs': Turnbull

The interview, which aired on NITV's new current affairs program The Point, was a lengthy, wide-ranging interview with Mr Turnbull on his approach to Indigenous policy. "There is no silver bullet, you know that," he said. "I think one of the reasons there's been so much disappointment in terms of the outcomes of policy here is because everyone has been searching for the one big, sweeping answer." Mr Turnbull's predecessor Tony Abbott often described himself as the Prime Minister for Indigenous Australians. Mr Turnbull told NITV that was also how he saw his role. "Every Prime Minister is a Prime Minister for Indigenous affairs, a Prime Minister for all Australians and the first Australians, who have been treated so unjustly, who have suffered so much over so long," he said. "Reconciling the nation with that history, and righting those wrongs and settling that injustice, is an objective and obligation on every Australian, but especially on every Prime Minister." The Prime Minister said a vote to change the Constitution to recognise Indigenous Australians in May next year was feasible.
Actual :golfclap:

I'd almost be up for a crowdsourced funding of arms for the combined union.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-29/maritime-union-votes-in-favour-merging-with-construction-union/7209264

quote:

Maritime Union of Australia delegates vote in favour of merging with Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union By political reporter Matthew Doran Updated about 11 hours ago

If agreed to by the CFMEU, the plan will then go back to MUA members to finalise the deal. The formation of Australia's most powerful and militant union is a step closer, with delegates at the maritime union's national conference unanimously voting in favour to merge with the construction union. The Maritime Union of Australia (MUA) and the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU) publicly floated the idea of a merger in October last year.

Key points:

MUA delegates vote in favour of proposal to merge with CFMEU
The proposal will now go to the CFMEU national executive who are expected to endorse the merger
Employment Minister Michaelia Cash says merger represents "a major threat to productivity, jobs growth and economic prosperity"
On Monday, MUA delegates agreed to the proposal, which strongly condemned "the extreme political nature of the industrial offensive against Australian workers from neo-conservative commercial forces and the Abbott [now Turnbull] Government".

"The offensive includes the systematic destruction of Australian workers' rights and job security, particularly through industry policy that is destroying manufacturing and related service industries and, the systematic reduction of trade union rights in mining, hydrocarbon and construction industries in particular," the MUA's Principles for Amalgamation document stated. "The Royal Commission into Trade Unions and the constant attempts to further erode worker protections and rights through new legislation and the revisiting of old legislation, like the ABCC, is central to this offensive." MUA national secretary Paddy Crumlin has heralded the decision as a win for the union movement. But Mr Crumlin said the merger would only go ahead if the MUA were able to keep its identity, and operate as a division of the much larger CFMEU. "[Members] know that they're entering into a marriage, it's like any marriage, they want to keep their personality, they don't want it to be subsumed," Mr Crumlin said. "There's a process of getting to that situation before marital vows are exchanged to ensure that we keep this great and long and proud history. We know we're entering into a marriage that's going to transform the ability of us to protect ourselves on the job, and in doing that transform the ability of other workers in that union to be able to protect themselves." The proposal will now go to the CFMEU national executive, who are due to meet later this week and are expected to endorse the merger.

MUA national secretary Paddy Crumlin has heralded the decision as a win for the union movement.

"I think our executive and our union will be looking forward to working with the MUA and the TCFUA [Textile, Clothing and Footwear Union of Australia] to create a new union which is looking after its members, looking after their families and looking after the communities that rely on their jobs," said Michael O'Connor, national secretary of the CFMEU. Those conditions that the MUA have put, I'm sure will be greeted positively by our executive. We'll take whatever time is necessary to get the new union structure right, to involve all our members, to make sure the process is transparent and democratic, because that's what we're all about." If agreed to by the CFMEU, the plan will then go back to MUA members to finalise the deal. The TCFUA is also in discussions to merge with the CFMEU.

Employment Minister Michaelia Cash :qq: argued the merger represented "a major threat to :siren: productivity :siren:, jobs growth and economic prosperity. The fact that the two most militant unions in Australia are proposing to merge is extremely concerning," Senator Cash said. "The potential merger of further unions to cover the majority of transport logistics across Australia should concern all Australians. Since Mr Shorten became Opposition Leader, we have seen the increasing influence of radical unions over Labor policy — one can only imagine how this control would be exacerbated by these proposed mergers."

Industrial relations a key issue heading into election year

Industrial relations will be a key issue heading further into this election year, and legislation to reintroduce the Australian Building and Construction Commission (ABCC) is being held out as a possible trigger for a double dissolution poll. The merger discussions could be seen as laying the groundwork for a union-led campaign against the Coalition, with a combined war chest. "There's is a feeling within the CFMEU and the MUA and the wider trade union movement, that trade unions are beginning to mobilise again against the tremendous political cynicism that's currently prevailing in the government of the day and the political atmosphere in this country," Mr Crumlin said. "The whole position of combining resources, it's not money, there's no Trojan horse here, it's not about getting control of the Labor Party and breaking the law. "The whole thing that's going on here is that people want to have a fair go, and they're willing to join together and join hands with each other to make sure that happens." Whether TCFUA members will also form part of the united front, with its executive lobbying for similar conditions as the MUA deal, is yet to be finalised. "You never take workers for granted, it's a decision of our members and we'll respect that decision," said Michelle O'Neill, national secretary of the TCFUA. They want to make sure it's a union that they can see themselves in, that they feel confident that they're represented in the union, that their leadership is there, that they're part of the decision making. Our union is not doing this because we have to do it, we're doing it because we want to do it, our union is smaller than it once was, but it is an effective union for its members."
Bring back the BLF.

Economic disaster chat? Already?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-01/australia-dodges-recession-unlike-other-commodity-economies/7209662

quote:

Australia dodges recession, unlike other commodity economies: BIS Shrapnel report By Thuy Ong Posted about 2 hours ago

Despite a volatile start to the year and a drop in commodity prices, Australia has avoided a recession and looks unlikely to have one, according to a new report. Other commodity exporting nations have been unable to avoid economic contraction, with Australia's advantage lying in its low-cost production, said economic forecaster and industry analyst BIS Shrapnel. Resource-bound countries, including Russia and Brazil, are suffering through recessions after experiencing falls in their terms of trade. "Australia is a low-cost, high quality resources exporter, and other countries simply cannot compete with that," said Dr Frank Gelber, chief economist at BIS Shrapnel. "While prices are a lot lower, we are very low cost producers and so we've been able to maintain our share of exports, or more than our share of exports." Australia weathered the global financial crisis relatively unscathed, and Australia's economy posted stronger-than-expected GDP growth of 2.5 per cent in 2015. The latest official economic growth figures, for the fourth quarter and which will confirm the nation's annual economic performance for 2015, are due out tomorrow morning.

BIS Shrapnel said 2016 "is just the second year of an expected four to five-year decline, which will see mining construction fall by 70 per cent from its peak. The main reason [Australia hasn't experienced a recession] has been strong and sustained growth in resource production and export volumes - around 8 per cent per annum in each of its past three years - aided recently by surging education and tourism exports," said Dr Gelber. "Without this export volume growth, Australia would have gone into recession." The slump in the Australian dollar to around 71 US cents has boosted both inbound tourists and Australians choosing to holiday domestically. According to Tourism Australia, there was a jump of 8.2 per cent in international visitor arrivals in 2015, to 7.4 million people. Sectors including agriculture, education services, finance and business services are also seeing a pick-up, said Dr Gelber. "Hence, we believe a recession in Australia is highly unlikely," he said. "There's no magic wand for the economy, and the shift to non-mining investment will be agonisingly slow. But it's not all doom and gloom - yes, growth will be soft, but it's still growth."

Big business shill but still.

What we need more than ever in the lead up to the election is stable government by sensible responsible adults..:laugh: Remember all the denials yesterday about the AFP being involved in anything what-so-ever at Parliament House? Further confirmation to never believe anything until it is officially denied.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-29/afp-sought-access-to-parliament-servers-over-slipper-probe/7208004

quote:

AFP sought access to Parliament House computer servers as part of Mal Brough investigation By political reporters Stephanie Anderson and Stephen Dziedzic Updated yesterday at 6:51pm

The Australian Federal Police (AFP) have sought access to computer servers at Parliament House as part of their investigation into the downfall of former speaker Peter Slipper. The AFP has confirmed it has been conducting enquiries with the Department of Parliamentary Services. The Department runs Parliament House and its computer servers hold the emails of Federal MPs. The AFP told the ABC the investigations were in relation to an ongoing investigation — but did not specify which one. The ABC understands the AFP sought access to the parliamentary servers as part of their inquiry into the role Liberal MP Mal Brough played in procuring Mr Slipper's diary.

In an earlier statement, a spokesperson for the AFP confirmed officers have not raided a politician's office in the past fortnight. It also ruled out having seized material under search warrant from the Parliamentary Offices of a federal politician "in the past two weeks". But it did not say if it had accessed the parliamentary computer system. Mr Brough said there had been no raids on his Parliament House office. In a statement, Mr Brough said "rumours are circulating through Parliament House that the AFP have raided my Parliament House Office". "These rumours are completely false," he said. Mr Brough said that the AFP has not sought any "additional assistance in any way" from him since January 7.

Shadow attorney-general Mark Dreyfus questioned Speaker Tony Smith on the police enquiries following Question Time, but Mr Smith refused to be drawn. He instead referred to the guidelines put in place regarding parliamentary privilege, which requires police to seek permission to enter Parliament House. "Members would be aware that Australian Federal Police has a national guideline for executive of search warrants where parliamentary privilege may be involved, which has been agreed between the minister responsible for the Australian Federal Police and the presiding officers," he said. "Any process for the execution of search warrants in circumstances where parliamentary privilege may be involved would only be done in accordance with the principles of that guideline, to ensure that parliamentary privilege is protected."
A sham and a farce.

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Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Take your pingers before you leave?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
It is unfortunately true. Between 1996 and 2016 who's a better PM? Rudd/Gillard is really the only other nominee and as hosed up as Howard is/was they really can't claim to have done much. Ten plus years in the job carries it's own gravitas. If anything it is a damning indictment on the poo poo nature of our politicians.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

tithin posted:

what article?
The original article is in NTATA's best friend (favourite leakage sponge) the Arsetralian.

The best bit? It was typical NTATA flim flam and smear.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...302-gn8aco.html

quote:

Defence Force chief at odds with Tony Abbott claim that Malcolm Turnbull has delayed new submarines March 2, 2016 - 2:27PM David Wroe National security correspondent

Police investigate defence leaks
The federal police are called in to investigate the leaking of classified drafts of the Defence white paper.
The Defence Department has requested police investigate the leaking of draft sections of the Defence white paper that were written under the prime ministership of Tony Abbott.

Defence Force chief Mark Binskin, meanwhile, is at odds with Mr Abbott over the former prime minister's claim that the commissioning of Australia's next submarine fleet has been delayed under Malcolm Turnbull."I don't leak, I don't background. If I've got something to say, I say it." - Former prime minister Tony Abbott

Mr Turnbull said the head of the Defence Department Dennis Richardson had ordered an investigation into the leak, which formed the basis of a report in The Australian newspaper that extensively quoted Mr Abbott. "I can confirm that the secretary of the Department of Defence has advised me that he has initiated an investigation which will obviously be conducted by the Australian Federal Police into the apparent leak of these classified documents that were referred to in the newspaper," Mr Turnbull told Parliament on Wednesday afternoon. The former prime minister denied being responsible for the leak. "I don't leak, I don't background," Mr Abbott said. "If I've got something to say, I say it."

Mr Abbott was quoted in The Australian on Wednesday saying he was "not just disappointed" but "flabbergasted at this decision" to commit to having the first new submarine in the water by the early 2030s rather than several years earlier. He was commenting on the newspaper's report based on the leaked white paper sections. The newspaper says it has obtained sections of the draft Defence white paper produced under Mr Abbott's prime ministership that state that the first of the new submarines was "likely to begin entering service in the late 2020s". The eventual white paper, released last week, commits to having the first of the new boats in the water by the early 2030s, meaning an average extension of the life of the existing Collins Class fleet of about five years will be needed. But at a briefing on the white paper on Tuesday, Air Chief Marshal Binskin stated clearly there had been no change in the submarine schedule over the period of the change of prime ministers. The Defence chief was asked: "And that early 2030s reference hasn't changed since the change of prime minister and defence minister?" He replied: "No, no, not at all. No." He was commenting before the publication of The Australian's story. But on Wednesday after the publication, a spokeswoman for Air Chief Marshal Binskin added: "The department's advice to government has been consistent."

Rear Admiral Jonathan Mead, head of Navy capability, said at the Tuesday briefing that a clear understanding of the realistic date for having the new submarines in the water had emerged over the past two years. He said that through the government's submarine competitive evaluation process and "our understanding of what needed to be done and our engagement with industry, we've got a lot better understanding and been able to hone in those dates a lot better". The competitive evaluation process is being run by the Defence Department to guide the government in deciding whether Australia should partner with Japan, Germany or France in designing and building the new submarines. Fairfax Media understands that the late 2020s had previously been canvassed as an option when it was more likely that the submarines would be built overseas. Mr Abbott was pushing for a 2026 start date for the new submarines but was consistently advised that this was not possible. The Australian article also names former defence minister Kevin Andrews as pressing to have the first submarine built by 2026-27. Mr Andrews was a close supporter of Mr Abbott's and has overtly questioned Turnbull government national security policy since he was dumped following the leadership change.

National security is being fought as a proxy war within the Coalition as part of lingering resentment over Mr Turnbull's ousting of Mr Abbott last September. Defence has previously put on the record that a 2026 start date for the new submarines was not achievable because of delays in decision-making by previous governments. The secretary of the Defence Department Dennis Richardson told a Senate hearing last October that "for us to have an operating submarine in the water to replace the Collins by 2026, we would have needed to have taken decisions in respect of the future submarine some years ago". Mr Richardson said at that time that some extension of the life of the Collins Class was "highly likely".

AND another National Security leak.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
So let's start with what noted right wing shill sheet the AFR has to say about the BIS Shrapnel report:

http://www.afr.com/news/politics/bis-shrapnels-negative-gearing-report-is-manifestly-ridiculous-20160302-gn8sv0

quote:

BIS Shrapnel's negative gearing report is 'manifestly ridiculous' by Joanna Mather

An independent think tank has described as "manifestly ridiculous" a report containing predictions about dramatic drops in real estate values and economic activity if a policy like Labor's proposed negative gearing plan was adopted. The report by BIS Shrapnel says rents would rise by up to 10 per cent, the number of new homes being built would drop by four per cent and GDP would shrink by $19 billion a year. Labor's proposal is to abolish negative gearing for established dwellings, which would prevent investors claiming net rental losses against salary income. Any number of new homes could be negatively geared.

BIS Shrapnel would not say who commissioned the modelling and on Thursday clarified that the report was prepared before Labor's policy was announced.

The Grattan Institute's John Daley slammed the report. Chris Pearce

Grattan Institute chief executive John Daley said the report and its underlying assumptions "did not pass the giggle test" and were "manifestly ridiculous". But he did acknowledge that Labor's plan was likely to reduce home prices by two per cent (not the six per cent the report finds). "Voters should be asking themselves whether a responsible government would rely on this sort of nonsense in a public policy debate," Mr Daley said. " The problem is that these for-hire economic consultancies are paid to run a model, they stick a bunch of silly assumptions into the model and everybody is asked to believe whatever comes out." Mr Daley said the most glaring errors were in the report's assumptions about how higher taxes would affect land prices. "It assumes that higher taxes will primarily affect returns on development," he said. "In fact higher taxes will primarily reduce the price of land so that returns on development are little changed."

The report predicts the loss of economic activity from a restriction on restriction on negative gearing to new properties at an average of $19 billion a year.

So $19 billion will be lost in exchange for additional tax of between $4 billion and $5 billion a year. Do the sums and that implies a loss of $3 dollars of economic activity for every $1 of tax raised. Tax theory would describe that as a "marginal excess burden" of 300 per cent, Mr Daley said. "That is plainly outlandish," he said. "To put it in context, people claim that the marginal excess burden associated with company tax is high at 50 per cent." The report also finds abolishing negative gearing on existing stock would reduce home prices by 6 per cent. Mr Daley said a more accurate figure would be a reduction of 2 per cent. "The [negative gearing] tax deduction is worth about $5 billion a year after tax," he said. "You apply a multiple of, say, 20 to convert that annual revenue into an asset value. On that basis, the net present value of the deduction is about $100 billion a year. The ABS reports that the total value of residential land plus improvements in Australia is a little over $5 trillion. Divide $5 trillion by $100 billion and it implies that the value lost from changing negative gearing rules is about two per cent of the value of residential property, not six per cent."

Then there is the claim that it will force a 10 per cent increase in rents.

"If it was going to have that effect we would have seen it in 1985," Mr Daley said. "And it just doesn't make sense. For every property that is no longer owned by an investor, there is one more property owned by an owner-occupier. Therefore there is one less renter and one less rental property. There is no change in the supply and demand for rental property, and therefore no change in rents." The 30-page document was circulated among journalists on Wednesday afternoon, just in time for evening deadlines. While the executive summary was released to some, others managed to acquire full copies of the report. An embargo lifted at midnight. But hours before that property industry bodies, who'd obviously been privy to the report's findings, were sending out press releases. The report's findings confirmed Labor's policy would "cripple" families, the Real Estate Institute of Queensland said. "Any changes to negative gearing would be disastrous in Queensland, pushing thousands of families into financial distress as rents rise as the predictable result of diminishing supply," chief executive Antonia Mercorella was quoted as saying.

:laugh:

And so we come to the main event a show down between the increasingly goofy looking Scott "Baby Killer" Morrison and Chris "Also kills babies but isn't the sort of bloke who would actually wear the T-Shirt" Bowen:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-03/federal-government-attacks-labors-negative-gearing-plans/7216166

quote:

Row erupts over BIS Shrapnel negative gearing report By political reporter Stephanie Anderson Updated 46 minutes ago

Federal Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has dismissed a new report on the impact of curbing negative gearing.

Key points

BIS Shrapnel report says cutting tax break drives up rental prices and pushes down house values
Federal Opposition Leader Bill Shorten dismisses report as "a joke"
BIS Shrapnel to reveal who commissioned research
The BIS Shrapnel report issued on Thursday found cutting the tax break would drive up rental prices and push down house values.

BIS Shrapnel has refused to say who commissioned the research but said the modelling was done over several months and was not focussed on any particular policy. The report examined the effect of limiting negative gearing, assuming that:

Established homes would be excluded from negative gearing in favour of new homes only
The policy would be grandfathered and not effect established homes bought before July 2016
It found that if these measures were to be put in place, rents would rise by up to 10 per cent a year and new home building would shrink by around 4 per cent – or 7,200 dwellings – annually. It further stated that GDP would shrink as a result - by around $19 billion per annum on average - and 175,000 fewer jobs would be created over the coming decade.

Fact Check: Negative gearing - ABC Fact Check investigates Scott Morrison's claim that the vast majority of Australians who use negative gearing earn "modest" incomes. :itwaspoo:

Last month, Labor announced plans to limit negative gearing to new properties from mid-2017 if it wins the next election. But Mr Shorten told reporters on Thursday the report was completed before Labor unveiled its policy. He dismissed it as "a joke". "The report was done and researched before Labor released its policies," he said. "The report doesn't model Labor's policies, it models a set of fantasy assumptions and then draws its own conclusions." Shadow Treasurer Chris Bowen also dismissed its findings, saying it "should be treated with all the credibility of an email from Godwin Grech".

But Treasurer Scott Morrison has leapt on the report as evidence Labor's policy is flawed.

Mr Morrison told the ABC he did not know who commissioned the report, stating: "We didn't do this modelling". "It is a credible report and it shows what we said what would happen with Labor's policy," he said. "It would have a significant impact on property values, it's going to push many people into housing stress. It's going to require compensation of hundreds of millions of dollars, more than is actually raised by the policy itself."

But Kim Hawtrey from BIS Shrapnel told the ABC the report was done over the last few months, "before Labor even announced its policy". "We weren't thinking of any particular policy from any side of politics," he said. "We were really trying to consider as set of likely assumptions that somebody might propose." Mr Hawtrey said the paper was not making recommendations. The Property Council and the Real Estate Institute of Australia have both confirmed that they did not commission the modelling from BIS Shrapnel.

Who are BIS Shrapnel?

http://www.bis.com.au/

quote:

Since 1964, BIS Shrapnel has been helping clients gain a leading edge by sharing our extensive business database and highly regarded reports. Our reputation is built on a unique blend of three ingredients: proprietary market research, industry networking, and methodologies for forecasting that have stood the test of time. BIS Shrapnel is one hundred percent Australian owned. We are an independent company with no vested interests. Out of offices in Sydney and Melbourne, we operate globally to service clients around the world. We offer strategy briefings, policy evaluation, expert opinions, and advocacy work. We can provide a business case. Through tailored projects we provide value-added research solutions to address specific business issues.
I'm surprised they haven't ever employed Kate Carnel.

Dude McAwesome posted:

I think ScoMo's mental faculties are already declining. In QT yesterday, he must have said "MIster Speaker" about 40 times in a couple of minutes. But I guess when you litter your speech with that, you really don't have to give a proper response.

If you want to hear Scott "Baby Killer" Morrison sound like a drowning man clutching at straws here's the audio for his ABC faceplant. http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/am-with-michael-brissenden/7216112

Looks like we ARE becoming more agile! Thanks Malformed Turdball! http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/latest-gdp-figures-show-economy-is-rebalancing/7216096

quote:

Latest GDP figures show economy is rebalancing away from mining Thursday 3 March 2016 6:51AM (view full episode)

Spending may be a dirty word for the Federal Government right now, but it's proving to be the saviour of the Australian economy—with a rise in consumer and Government spending delivering an adrenalin shot to economic growth at the end of last year. The latest December quarter GDP figures out yesterday suggest the economy is successfully rebalancing away from mining towards services-led growth, as Australians spend more on education, health and aged care. We are, however, spending our savings to fund it.
Also includes more Scott "Baby Killer" Morrison sounding befuddled and increasingly petulant.

Well at least it's a distraction from NTATA bringing the church down from within. He really does seem to believe that his is a manifest destiny. Let that sink in. No sea of blood too large, pile of skulls too high (etc) Good thing this came along Cunneen watch had gone cold :munch:

EDIT - Pell is now claiming that the number of paedophiles in Ballarat was "A coincidence" Have fun backpedalling from that one tomorrow sick man.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

SynthOrange posted:

So whats the possible outcomes of Abbott being investigated for leaking documents?
Listed in order of likelihood:

1/ After several years AFP are questioned on progress and say "there was no relevant evidence found, can we talk about something happy now?"
2/ A low level flunky in NTATA's Warringah constituency office has their lap top seized but no charges are forthcoming.
3/ A rapid and effectively managed investigation manages to track the paper/electronic trail back to NTATA's parliamentary offices and a low level flunky is held for questioning but later released without charge.
4/ NTATA dobs himself in by mistake.
5/ The evidence collected mounts to the point where there can be no doubt who the instigator was and NTATA resigns in shame.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
In a fresh round of institutionalised victim blaming:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/family-wins-220000-in-settlement-against-nsw-over-ambulance-delays-20160303-gn9fxm.html

quote:

Family wins $220,000 in settlement against NSW over ambulance delays March 3, 2016 - 5:09PM James Robertson

The Yuke family was awarded $220,000 on Thursday after an ambulance stood waiting outside a 'no-go zone' while Geoffrey Yuke died from a heart condition. Geoffrey Yuke died slowly. Help was at hand. It was close to midnight and the 24-year-old stood suffering a heart attack. An ambulance was parked minutes' drive from his home. But it didn't come any closer. Mr Yuke's Indigenous community at Box Ridge, west of Lismore, was marked a no-go zone - in the official terminology, it was the subject of a "caution note". Ambulances were not to enter without police escort because of safety fears. A neighbour called for an ambulance which was dispatched within a couple of minutes. But a chain of mistakes and communications failures delayed the arrival of a police escort by 45 minutes. Mr Yuke died shortly before the ambulance reached his home, almost an hour after the first emergency call was made.

Last week, nearly 10 years after their father's death, Mr Yuke's three children, all of whom were aged under three at the time, successfully sued the state of NSW. The state government agreed to pay the children $220,000 in damages, the family's lawyer said. Mr Yuke's sister, Margaret, brought the case on their behalf. "I thought he had just died because of a heart attack," she said. "It wasn't until the [coronial inquest a year later] that I found out about all that." Margaret said she cried hearing about the circumstances of her brother's death over "five long days" in court and was moved to seek out local lawyer Tracey Randall to take civil action after the inquest. The case was brought in 2013 against the police and ambulance service jointly. It alleged poor communication and errors by both organisations had contributed to delays in treating Mr Yuke, who suffered from a congenital heart condition.

A NSW Ambulance spokesman said the service had apologised to the Yuke family. He said a "caution note" no longer applied to Mr Yuke's community at Box Ridge but noted that the coroner had found the warning was justified. The notes are applied when a paramedic has been threatened or assaulted at an address, the spokesman said. "This policy not only protects paramedics but also ensures they can effectively treat patients with police back-up," he said. Margaret said she cried again when the matter was settled on Friday with the approval of a judge at Lismore. She was particularly close to her younger brother. The two had run away from home together after being fostered out to an abusive home.

When Margaret was about 16 they ended up living together in their own home in Evans Head, with her taking legal charge of her brother. "I felt like giving up so many times but I kept going because I knew he would have done that for me," she said. "My heart will just let the pain go now." The family's lawyer, Ms Randall, said the money would be held in trust and the family was hoping to use the settlement for "educational opportunities Geoffrey and Margaret did not have". A recent case on the Central Coast allegedly involved delays in treating a woman whose home was the subject of a "caution note", even though the resident who had been the subject of the note had since moved out.

Isolated instances..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-13/borroloola-woman-died-funeral-after-ambulance-refused-elder-says/6090370

quote:

Borroloola woman died at funeral after requests for ambulance refused, elder says By Nadia Daly Updated 13 Feb 2015, 10:07am

An elderly Indigenous woman died at a funeral after requests for an ambulance were refused, according to an Indigenous elder in the remote NT town of Borroloola. Jack Green said the woman and members of the community 650 kilometres south-east of Katherine were attending the funeral on Saturday when she became unwell. He said he called Borroloola's Health Clinic requesting an ambulance but he was told by a staff member that they could not send one. He said the staff member did not provide a reason why an ambulance could not be sent from the nearby clinic. "I said, 'Look, we really need an ambulance down here'," he told the ABC. "They said, 'Nah we can't send any vehicle down, you have to get family to bring her up here'. "I said, 'We're right in the middle of a big funeral here'." Mr Green said members of the woman's family, despite being distraught at the funeral, then drove the woman to the clinic. He said he believed she may have died on the way there or upon arrival. He said he understood there was an ambulance at the clinic and did not understand why it was not dispatched. "If we had someone out there it would have helped a lot," he said. The lady was a patient of the clinic and Mr Green said staff there knew she was in poor health. "They know she was a really crook lady," he said.

NT Health investigating death

In a statement, Michael Kalimnios from the NT Health Department said he was deeply saddened by the woman's death and that it was being investigated as a priority. Mr Green was now calling for an ambulance to be stationed at all funerals in Borroloola in the future to avoid a similar tragedy occurring. "We ask the hospital there if we can have one on standby for in future," he said. "Just in case this thing happen again, because it's shocked the family of this old lady."

Have you ever contemplated calling for an ambulance and having someone say they won't send one?

"We're not making it up!" - Minister for NO environment and NTATA:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...303-gn9e7c.html

quote:

No evidence of 'vigilante' green groups as government crackdown falls silent March 3, 2016 - 4:57PM Nicole Hasham Environment and immigration correspondent

Federal Environment Minister Greg Hunt's claims of green 'vigilantes' have failed to stack up.

Environment Minister Greg Hunt has failed to justify his government's claim that "vigilante" green groups are unfairly disrupting major developments in court, a parliamentary committee says, as speculation mounts that another Abbott-era attack on the environment has been quietly abandoned. It has been almost seven months since the government proposed new laws that would strip conservation groups of the right to launch a legal challenge to environmental approval for large infrastructure and mining projects. It followed a Federal Court bid by a grassroots community group that threw a spanner in the works of Australia's largest coal project, Adani's proposed Carmichael mine in central Queensland – a move former prime minister Tony Abbott described as "sabotage". Under the proposed changes, the right to mount a court challenge would be limited to people directly affected by a development, such as a landholder. The move drew public outrage and stalled in the Senate after failing to win support from Labor, the Greens and some crossbenchers. In an attempt to justify the legislation to a joint parliamentary committee on human rights, Mr Hunt claimed there was "an emerging risk of the [current laws] being used to deliberately disrupt and delay key projects".

However, a report by the committee, which is evenly split between government and other members, said no evidence was provided about the extent and nature of this threat in cases where there was "no legitimate environmental concern". Mr Hunt's office insisted the proposal "remains government policy". However the bill is unlikely to pass without changes and Labor says the government has not sought to negotiate amendments. Mr Butler said it appeared the bill had been "tucked away in the bottom draw in the hope that the Australian public will forget the ridiculous attacks this government has made on the environment in the past two-and-a-half years". It follows reports that the Turnbull government has shelved plans to abolish the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, representing another departure from Mr Abbott's environment policies. In Parliament in September last year, Liberal MP Bob Baldwin pointed to a report by Greenpeace Australia titled Stopping the Australian Coal Export Boom, which outlined a strategy to "disrupt and delay" key projects, and said legal challenges can stop projects outright or can delay them. But NSW Environmental Defender's Office principal solicitor Sue Higginson said the number of court challenges mounted to developments on environmental grounds was small. Of those, a large proportion had been successful and "highlighted the improper exercise of power under environmental laws", she said.

A spokesman for Mr Hunt on Thursday repeated the claim that laws were "being exploited to disrupt and delay projects", which he said cost jobs.
"We, we can't lie any more? Game over man! Game over!" - Spokes Potato.

Not the only bullshit artists under the spotlight.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...303-gn9nv9.html

quote:

Call for code of conduct for economic modellers after saga surrounding BIS Shrapnel negative gearing modelling March 4, 2016 - 12:15AM Gareth Hutchens

Call to end misuse of economic modelling

The Australia Institute wants a code of conduct introduced for economic modelling following the BIS Shrapnel report into negative gearing. The use and abuse of economic modelling has become so bad in Australia that we need to adopt a code of conduct for economic consultants, similar to those followed by auditors and actuaries, the Australia Institute says. The Australia Institute is calling for a code of conduct to be introduced in the wake of the saga surrounding modelling produced by BIS Shrapnel on Thursday, which purports to show the economic consequences of restricting negative gearing to new residential properties. The modelling was being championed by Treasurer Scott Morrison, who said it showed Labor's proposal on negative gearing was ill-designed.

Treasurer Scott Morrison has come under fire for his use of BIS Shrapnel modelling.

It predicted that abolishing negative gearing on established dwellings would wipe $19 billion from Australia's gross domestic product and push up rental prices by 10 per cent. But BIS Shrapnel associate director Kim Hawtrey would not say who commissioned the modelling - despite the obvious political ramifications of its conclusions - saying only they were a "private client." And the report also did not state clearly what its assumptions are, nor what type of modelling programs it used. The lack of transparency has prompted the Australia Institute to call for a code of conduct to be introduced, saying the misuse of such modelling needs to come to an end. "On Thursday we saw modelling driven into the centre of the tax reform debate by an unknown vested interest," Australia Institute executive director Ben Oquist said. "While the startling allegations in the BIS Shrapnel report have been quickly torn apart by many economists, it has nonetheless misinformed and mongered fear among the public. "We call on the government to develop a code of conduct to ensure the standard of all economic modelling used to inform Government is transparent and of a high standard," he said. "It's not too much to ask for a consistent standard. There is absolutely no reason why all sides can't at least agree on the minimum rules."

Treasurer Scott Morrison seized on the BIS report, describing it as "an indictment on Labor's policy".

"What it shows is [that] they just haven't done their homework on this," he said. But he later came under fire after BIS Shrapnel clarified that its modelling was prepared before Labor's policy was announced. "The assumptions were set several months ago, and the analysis done late last year, well before Labor announced its policy," BIS Shrapnel associate director Kim Hawtrey told Fairfax Media. Australia Institute executive director Ben Oquist said state and federal governments, who are the main audience for economic modelling, have a unique ability to influence the behaviour of economic modellers by requiring that all modelling aimed at influencing government decisions conform to minimum standards. He says the code of conduct should require modellers to disclose who, if anyone, commissioned a piece of work, to clearly discuss their key assumptions, to provide sensitivity analysis where appropriate, and to explain the choice of economic model. He says modellers should also take responsibility for the plausibility of their results, and the full modelling results should be made publicly available when they are released to the media. "Auditors have a code of conduct because financial information is open to abuse and people rely on this information to make important decisions, and actuaries have a code of conduct that includes context, basic rules and a declaration of fairness and accuracy," Mr Oquist said. "A consistent standard would be in the interest of the economic modelling industry and its reputation."
:laugh:

I don't think I remember seeing an entire ministry faceplant so hard since the heady days of NTATA. Is there a single portfolio not quietly smoking?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Gorilla Salad posted:

Ever tried to help someone who's dying only to be assaulted and have your life threatened?

My sister's an ambulance officer and even in quiet country Victoria where she works half the time, they have houses and entire streets they're told to never go down unescorted for their own safety.

The fuckup is from the higher-ups (no surprise there, Ambulance Victoria is utterly loving incompetent and I have no reason to suspect the other states are any better) not being able to coordinate calling the police. High risk areas are all flagged and a call should have gone out automatically to the police the second the ambulance was sent the job.
If only those people hadn't made a lifestyle choice to live in that area.

It is a real problem (Emergency services workers getting assaulted) but the current solutions aren't working AND the real solution is to prevent the formation of ghettos in the first place. I live in an area where there are a number of 'no go' zones and nobody is doing anything to fix the causes of the problem.

Your sister would also loath the general standard of the local drivers who persitently block ambulances on lights and sirens :psyduck:

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
When they made the switch I expressed deep scepticism at Scott 'Baby Killer' Morrison being able to control the Treasury portfolio because, unlike his previous portfolio, he wasn't the faucet for all information. This weeks events have proven me spectacularly right. Who in their wildest dreams would have imagined anyone could make a worse treasurer than J Hockey? I know, it's breathtaking. I imaging in forty years a certain document, written in badly spelt crayon will be released under the Cabinet In Confidence rules:

"An anonymous treasure" posted:

Dear BIS Shrapnil,

Could you please do a report into negative gearing which comes out saying it will wrek the ekonimy? Try and include 'Labor Waste','Multifactor Growth', 'Monolithic','Old Fashioned', 'Productivity', 'Backwards Looking', and "Definitely not adgile". Send the bill to those chumps in the Dept. of Fineance modelling section. They almost never get it right! Am I right?

Clearly I'm not going to actually sign this do I look that stupid?

Well yes Baby Killer you do. Stupider in fact. I was trying to locate an instance of anyone in any of the broad finance portfolios of even this abysmal LNP government saying something stupider. It certainly rivals 'Poor people don't drive cars' and while 'Economic Girlyman' is in some ways worse that's because it is highly offensive misogyny not outright dumb economics. Looks like you can't just bully and torture the economy to get it to behave and trying to tow bad macroeconomic results back to sea just makes you look sillier.

In case you missed it, KIller used a report (that is being used as evidence that we need an economic modelling regulator) to support a nonsense stance on a policy he either doesn't understand or didn't read. Is there any evidence available that KIller can, in fact, read?

So Cartoon's clown shoes of the month goes to Scott "Babykiller" Morrison :cb: keep up the good work Scotty! You may be the straw that humps this camel off stage right.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

LibertyCat posted:

so, have you guys ever considered doing an OP that isn't horribly biased towards the Greens (who get less than 10 percent of the vote)? It might encourage greater diversity of opinions.
You can do next month's if you like and show us all how it's done.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
The offer stands :colbert:

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

LibertyCat posted:

If you're serious I'd be happy to make an effortpost that tries to be fair to all sides. Will post a draft here near the end of the month for approval if you want.
I'm not the final arbiter nor would I (or, I hope, any other) insist on a preview. If you are honestly putting your hand up for it I don't remember anyone else claiming it. So April would, by default, be yours. If it isn't up to snuff a mod will gas it soon enough.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
:horse: :ranbowdash:

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Ah the deserving poor! How many more centuries before this tired moral position becomes history?

Let's have a look at deserved.

The highest hourly wage earned in Australia is $124.10 (Source - http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/the-20-jobs-that-are-highest-paid-per-hour/story-e6frfmd9-1226699999173). Now working 40 hours a week, eleven months a year for forty years means you can amass ~ 9.5 million dollars over your entire working life. Lets take away the 0.5 million that they would have gotten on centre link (They had to live on something) and that means anyone who has assets in excess of 9 million dollars is ripping us all off. There is no possible way, even at the highest wage available, for them to accumulate their wealth on the basis of their efforts alone.

How is it possible for the people who have more than 9 million dollars in assets to get their loot? After taking vaginal discharge offsets (inheritance which is clearly not ever 'earned'), they lever it out of the economy at the expense of everyone else. Ladies and Gentlemen the true face of your overlords, the undeserving rich.

Solemn Sloth I'm really sorry for your latest experience. You should be eligible for compensation. Hope things work out better for you soon.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
If you are really bored, try and get one of those fruit picking jobs. Document your experience. Then apply for Newstart and document your experience. I know both suck but at least you aren't actually in the position of most 'sufferers' and can spare the mental space to analyse the events.

Also lol at a health card being an easy immediate pick up. Yeah I tried. Nope. I looked at the big fat pile of documents required and decided I owed it to my health to not do that. Centerlink make everything either painful or impossible or both.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
I'm a little disappointed in all these so called greens supporters being willing to gratuitously pollute the sun.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Never believe anything until it's been officially denied by the Arsetralian:

quote:

Abbott rejects wrecker claim BUSINESS SPECTATOR MARCH 5, 2016 3:38PM Paul Kelly Editor-At-Large

Abbott rejects wrecker claim

Amid mounting alarm in the Liberal Party about Tony Abbott’s aggressiv­e defence of his legacy, the former prime minister has sent a message of assurance to Liberal MPs and supporters worried that the government’s election campaign will be derailed by disunity. His message came before a warning yesterday by Malcolm Turnbull that he would “set the record­ straight” when he believed Mr Abbott had misconstrued the facts — a clear sign that the Prime Minister is prepared to contest the Abbott legacy campaign.

The Abbott message is as follows: “I intend to defend the legacy­ of the Abbott government and, as a former prime minister, I will speak out in defending that legacy. “I will speak in the partyroom on issues where members have a right to put their views. However, plainly, I believe that there is a vital obligation upon us as Liberals to win the coming election campaign. Whatever might be my concerns about the Turnbull government, they pale in comparison with the prospect of a Shorten Labor government.”

The meaning is obvious. Mr Abbott will be disciplined during the campaign. He will not sabo­tage the Turnbull government campaign. It is a critical assurance. It comes at the end of a week when Coalition MPs have become alarmed that policy issues are ­dividing along Turnbull-Abbott lines. Several Liberals privatel­y say the party must avoid any repeat of Labor’s 2010 election campaign, when open tension between Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd was a key factor in Labor losing­ majority government. Concern within the Coalition followed Mr Abbott’s 4000-word defence of his economic record, his partyroom intervention calling for more spending restraint and leaving negative gearing alone, and his frontal attack on the Turnbull government’s defence white paper on the grounds that it was delaying the start date for the ­introduction of new submarines from Mr Abbott’s preference as prime minister. Mr Turnbull said yesterday that the high-profile backbencher was entitled to “speak his mind” but he needed to exercise “his own judgment about his comments. He made some remarks during the week about submarines which were commented on, and in fact contradicted, by the Chief of the Defence Force and the secretary of the Defence Department,” Mr Turnbull said on the NSW central coast. “The simple reality is this: the expert advice to the Australian government on the submarine program and as to its timing has been consistent since 2013 — you take the word of Dennis Richardson, the secretary of the Defence Department, you take the word of the Chief of the Defence Force — so that is a fact. “I respect Tony’s right to speak his mind and he should continue to do so, but it’s very important that, as Prime Minister, I set the record straight.”

Mr Abbott’s sister Christine Forster on Sky News last night dismissed the possibility of a second Abbott prime ministership.

“He doesn’t think there’s any chance, surely, that the party will go back to him,’’ she said. “Why would he? You know, he’s a very intelligent man ... I don’t think we’d be stupid enough to make the mistake that they (Labor) did when they reinstated Rudd, to go back to the future.’’ Finance Minister Mathias Cormann earlier insisted that Mr ­Abbott’s destabilisation of Mr Turnbull’s leadership had not reached Kevin Rudd-style propor­tions “at this stage”, although­ “some issues” remain unresolved following last year’s Liberal leadership crisis Mr Abbott told The Australian this week he was “flabbergasted” by an apparent decision by the new Liberal leadership to delay the operation of the next-­generation submarine fleet, ­angering Liberals. Some MPs ­accused Mr Abbott of a “full-frontal’’ assault on the Prime Minister.

Mr Turnbull told parliament the Australian Federal Police were investigating the leaking of documents from the Abbott-era draft white paper to The ­Australian.

Senator Cormann, the deputy leader of the government in the Senate, said he accepted Mr ­Abbott’s word that he was not responsibl­e for an “incredibly reckless” and “absolutely deplorable” leak of sensitive national ­security information. “I would have preferred if Tony had chosen not to comment publicly, but he has,” Senator Cormann told Sky. “We are where we are; we move on. Tony Abbott is no Kevin Rudd, so you don’t see the same (destabilisation) at this stage. I don’t expect that we would ever be like the Labor Party; we are a very united team. Yes, I mean, obviously there are some issues that are still being worked through in the wake of the leadership transition … but to compare it with the battles between­ Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd would not be right.”

Bill Shorten seized on “division and dysfunction’’ in a government that was “at war with itself’’.

“We see leaks from the highest security cabinet committee of the government; we see Liberals calling the police in to investigate Liberals,” the Opposition Leader said. “We see great division and ­dysfunction at the heart of the government.”

Frontbencher Christopher Pyne said only a “handful of people­” had access to the draft defenc­e white paper, but he “would not immediately assume” that Mr ­Abbott was the leaker.

:munch:

Subtext above: Stop leaking damnit Tony! Oh Tony doesn't leak btw! Also what sort of a pillock leaks about a minor change in dates that were aspirational at best anyway? What a hill to die on! My schadenfreude receptors demand he actually be charged by the AFP but I guess you can't have everything.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Blaming pornography for the sexualisation of children is to ignore almost the entirety of the main stream media and advertisers since the fifties. The online component of images via phones is certainly a new pressure point but boys have been bullying girls into sex acts since forever.

http://www.womensforumaustralia.com/significant-issues/premature-sexualisation-of-children

Would have been nice if the article actually touched on any of the above.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Amoeba102 posted:

The ALP ha been trialing plain packaging for politicians for a while.
This is only the latest example but I can put up with pages of poop touching because AusPol does the best zingers. :glomp:

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Graic Gabtar posted:

It's cool that auspol is turning into Jane's Defence.
You have to know your enemy. That's how I know (a very little) about economics. It also adds to the punchline when the ADF do something hilarious (like the joint strike fighter).

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

open24hours posted:

You're just using the wrong metrics.
And being insufficiently agile. Come on Job Seekers! Bend over backwards more!

My JSA looked at my resume and said "Wow that's the best resume I've ever seen! Can I keep a copy of it on file?" Sure why not. "Now your first compulsory mutual obligation activity will be resume writing." You can not make this poo poo up.

I have had an employ turn down a regular shift because they had a JSA appointment and apparently even me ringing them up, or writing and complaining wouldn't be good enough. :psyduck:

El Scotch posted:

Sounds like a system purposely designed to reduce the number of Australians.
And it's working:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/09/highest-australian-suicide-rate-in-13-years-driven-by-men-aged-40-to-44

quote:

Highest Australian suicide rate in 13 years driven by men aged 40 to 44

Men depressed as adolescents in the 1990s have carried their suicidality with them into middle age, says mental health commissioner Ian Hickie Professor Ian Hickie says it is concerning that people in the most productive years of their lives are dying.

Men who were depressed as adolescents in the 1990s have carried their suicidality with them into middle age, leading to the highest suicide rate in 13 years, a national mental health commissioner, psychiatrist Prof Ian Hickie, says. New mortality data released by the Australian Bureau of Statistics on Wednesday shows the overall suicide rate has increased significantly from 10.9 deaths by suicide per 100,000 people in 2013 to 12 suicides per 100,000 people in 2014 – the highest rate since 2001.

Suicide survival stories must be told, says Australian mental health chief

Suicide is the leading cause of premature mortality in Australia. But rates have been been particularly stark in men aged 40 to 44 years, with 18.3% of male deaths in this age group attributable to suicide. While the highest age-specific suicide death rate for men in 2014 was seen in the 85 years and over age group, Hickie said suicide among middle-age men was increasing dramatically and that it was concerning that people in the most productive years of their lives were dying. “There are a group of men who are, as they age, taking their suicidality with them and these are the people driving the increase we see in suicide deaths,” Hickie said. Suicidality, also known as suicide ideation, is when people experience serious thoughts of suicide. “Youth suicide hit its peak in the 1990s and men suffering from unaddressed depression and mental health problems then are having that exacerbated by problems they face as they enter middle age, leading some to suicide,” Hickie said.

Many of these men were employed in manufacturing, construction, farming and mining, Hickie said, fields which over the past few years have experienced high levels of redundancies and uncertainty. Men suffering from unaddressed mental health problems are having [those] exacerbated by problems they face in middle age Prof Ian Hickie “Those with better employment prospects in these fields a decade ago are now experiencing a downturn, they often have families to support and mortgages to pay and they are then losing their jobs and losing their connection to friends and financial security. They become disconnected. “Sometimes their families fall apart as a result and they find themselves going through a divorce and personal upheaval too.”

There were no strong mental health campaigns and services targeting middle-aged men in these fields, Hickie said. While people employed in secure and growing industries, and who were technologically savvy, had strong prospects of reaching out for help when they were depressed, he said, men in more hands-on fields often felt they had nowhere to turn. “There is a considerable variability in suicide rates, so while it’s on its way up nationally, we know suicide in higher-resourced areas is half that, while suicide in rural and regional areas, with declining industries and low resourcing, is twice that. “That’s why the mental health commission’s national review called for 12 big regional trials to be held, backed by substantive financial investment, to work out how you maximise new technology and coordinate health services and prevention services and communities in regional areas to reach these people. But this hasn’t happened.”

Prof Helen Christensen, the chief scientist of the Black Dog Institute and the NHMRC centre for research excellence in suicide prevention, said it was essential to reach people before they reached crisis point. “If we look to the research evidence from here and overseas, there are clear strategies that have been proven to reduce suicide risk,” she said. “Only some of these are currently in use in Australia, and implementation tends to be scattered and disproportionate to their impact. It’s common sense. If we know what strategies are effective, surely we can have maximum impact by implementing them together.”

The highest rate of suicide in more than a decade should be a cause of great concern, according to Sane Australia CEO, Jack Heath. He described the situation as “simply unacceptable”. “We need to redouble our efforts to prevent suicide at a national, state and local level,” he said. “As a country, we’ve been able to drastically cut the number of deaths from heart disease, aids, cancer and motor vehicle accidents. We can, and must, do the same with suicide.

If you need support you can call: Lifeline 13 11 14, Suicide Call Back Service 1300 659 467, Kids Helpline 1800 55 1800, MensLine 1300 78 99 78.
Why don't we make some desperate people more desperate! That'll help!

Cartoon fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Mar 9, 2016

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Tomberforce posted:

Yeah I just spent 12k on getting my PR last year.

Maybe I should have gone hom.....:smithicide:


:britain:
No pigs head voted one.

MonoAus posted:

I'm sure someone will call me naive but I do think that JSAs are there to help jobseekers. They're just incredibly bad at what they do.
You either didn't read the last five pages or have 90% of AusPol on ignore. Borderforce is now using the model that JSA pioneered for the treatment of refugees. JSA and WFtD are both punitive in their design and execution. Also can any argument about unemployment address the failure of the market to actually have jobs available for the 6% of Australians who are unemployed? Till that elephant gets covered a statement about JSAs helping people find work is pretty loving hollow.

Bifauxnen posted:

*cough* and volunteering *cough*
Everyone please stop touching the poop. It's getting poop everywhere and we all know that once we get basic income there will be nobody to clean up that spread around poop. Like I'm not doing it so I assume nobody is.

Bifauxnen posted:

OK who's talking poo poo about basic income in here, you better not be fuckin IWC I swear to god
If you are referring to cat man I think I may have some bad news for you.

I interupt this playing with poop to bring you Poop for PM!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-10/campbell-newman-considers-move-into-federal-politics/7235418

quote:

Campbell Newman: Former Queensland premier considers foray into federal politics Updated about an hour ago

Former Queensland premier Campbell Newman is considering a political comeback, with plans to contest the federal seat of Brisbane. The seat was held by the LNP's Teresa Gambaro who announced on Wednesday that she would not recontest her seat at the next federal election. Mr Newman's biographer, Gavin King, told 612 ABC he had spoken to the former premier this morning. "He is indeed weighing it up but there are no major or firm moves," Mr King said. "Campbell has been contacted by a couple of federal MPs, people from the national and the state executive of the LNP." He said Ms Gambaro's announcement had opened up an unexpected opportunity. "People were blindsided and surprised by Ms Gambaro's announcement," Mr King said. "That certainly sparked the talk and sparked the speculation."

Queensland Opposition Leader Lawrence Springborg said Brisbane would be a tough federal seat to hold. "It is a seat that's not traditionally the LNP's way and of course it will always involve a significant and hard fought campaign," he said. "There's no guarantees in those areas and I think anyone who stands for preselection understands that."

Campbell 'would have to discuss comeback with wife'

Mr King said Mr Newman would have to consider his businesses interests and discuss the potential comeback with his wife, Lisa. He said Mr Newman could help with the relationship between Queensland and the Federal Government. "Campbell is a fairly young man and he's got a lot to offer," Mr King said. "It would certainly give him an opportunity to try and enact some of those thoughts and some of those issues he's addressed over many years. "It will come down to whether the party wants him or not."

After losing last year's Queensland state election, Mr Newman said his career in politics was over.
poo poo lovely poo poo. There is a certain type in Australian politics who definitely see themselves as born to rule. Why? Who the gently caress knows. People with money continue to encourage them because they know they will do/say anything to get to those sweet levers of power.

Cunneen watch

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/committee-told-it-has-no-power-to-release-secret-margaret-cunneen-phone-taps-20160309-gneh20.html

quote:

Committee told it has no power to release secret Margaret Cunneen phone taps March 9, 2016 - 6:26PM Sean Nicholls Sydney Morning Herald State Political Editor

The parliamentary committee examining the corruption watchdog's failed pursuit of Crown prosecutor Margaret Cunneen has been advised it has no power to publicly release explosive phone taps and other investigation material. It is understood legal advice to the committee conducting the inquiry says nothing in the federal Telecommunications (Intercept and Access) Act prevents it from releasing the material, but the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act does. This is because Section 64 (2) of the ICAC Act states that the committee cannot use its hearings to reconsider matters ICAC has investigated. MPs on the committee were given a briefing on the NSW Crown Solicitor's advice on Wednesday and are due to formally consider it before the next scheduled public hearing on Monday. The legal advice was sought after ICAC Commissioner Megan Latham tabled the phone taps and other material last month in response to a damning report on the watchdog's investigation of Ms Cunneen by Inspector David Levine.

Fairfax Media revealed the phone taps show Ms Cunneen told a tow truck driver that she had sent a message to her son's girlfriend, Sophia Tilley, who had been drinking, "to start having chest pains" after a car accident to delay a blood alcohol test. Ms Tilley later returned a zero blood alcohol result. The Australian Crime Commission was tapping the mobile phone of the tow truck driver who attended the scene in relation to a drugs and money laundering investigation. The driver, Ben de Jonk, has never been charged. The ACC passed phone tap details on to the ICAC, stating: "DPP Prosecutor possibly involved in corrupt conduct." ICAC launched its inquiry soon after. Ms Latham has urged the committee to publicly release the tabled material because it serves to "undermine the basis for the adverse findings" in the report by Inspector Levine, which accused ICAC of "unreasonable, unjust, [and] oppressive maladministration".

But the advice means this is unlikely to happen. It is also highly unlikely committee members will be able to question Inspector Levine or Ms Latham about the tabled material. Inspector Levine is due to give evidence on Monday and Ms Latham on March 18. Ms Cunneen has previously told Fairfax Media she doesn't "give a drat" if the phone tap recordings are released by the committee. But her lawyers have since written to the committee arguing against their release. ICAC was forced to abandon its investigation of Ms Cunneen after the High Court ruled it was beyond its jurisdiction. The NSW Crown Solicitor later said no prosecution should be pursued. Ms Cunneen has always denied the allegations.
Got off on an obtuse legal technicality? Would seem a symmetrical conclusion.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

MonoAus posted:

I don't understand why saying JSAs and Centrelink are incompetent but not malicious is so controversial.
Because they ARE malicious and deliberately so. Apart from some of the major themes this draws out, note the date and the fact that there have been no further reviews. That means that the system as you are experiencing it is how it is designed (not misadministered) to perform. The requirements are rigid, the aim is to discourage people from claim a benefit.

http://theconversation.com/reading-between-the-lines-of-australias-employment-services-success-story-11653

quote:

By this account it wasn’t only the employment service system operated by a range of for- profit and non-profit organisations that may have been so beneficial for the labour market. The well documented declining rate of Newstart Allowance in relation to wages – the replacement rate - acted to force unemployed people off benefits presumably into casual and part-time jobs which account for such a large proportion of the Australian labour market.

While the hourly minimum pay rates in these jobs are not low by international standards, many do not provide sufficient hours of work which are also very important for net earnings and income. Where hours of work are insufficient, vulnerability to poverty is increased.

quote:

The rigid welfare-to-work requirements on Janine meant she worked part-time as a cleaner although she sustained a repetitive strain injury which made this work very painful. She had raised a large family and had worked in her former husband’s business. She won’t be eligible for an age pension until she is 67, which means at 52 she has another 15 years of potential workforce participation.

Janine’s story highlights the increasing significance of changing circumstances across the life course, the “care penalty” on mothers, and the need for sustainable employment for older age groups. Her story shows that the employment services system is singularly ill-equipped to help people like her to make a transition into decent work.

The Government and the employment service provider were able to claim a positive outcome when Janine started her cleaning job. The employment service may have obtained a payment for this.

It wasn’t much of an outcome for Janine though. And there was not much value added for Australia. In a better quality, sustainable job, Janine could work more hours,over a longer time frame, with all the benefits this would bring to herself and the economy through increased income, tax revenues and retirement savings.
It is the government's intention to do everything it can to force people off benefits while never acknowledging that there are no jobs for these people to be employed in. It is an entirely cynical attempt to put negative pressure on wages growth. This is completely ideological as increasing wages growth is a boon to the economy in general and government revenue in particular. More over it is the only realistic reason that increased productivity is a worthwhile goal and is regularly touted as such by those empty cans that boom on and on about flagging multi-factor productivity growth.

Enforcing rigid and confusing rules while interpreting them for economic gain isn't incompetence, it is malevolence. Once the whip hand is in a private hand the government can stand back and tut tut without doing anything about it. Once again the principle of putting quasi judicial rulings with real financial effects into the hands of the private sector has been broached. That was never tolerated, until recently, and will not end well.

Also if you find people responding to serial buffoon Negligent better than scrolling past well formed human bodies then :shrug:

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

open24hours posted:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act...309-gnekm9.html

I wonder how this will affect smoke machines.

Also :argh: My rights! :argh:
Smoke machines actually produce an atomised fog and aren't effected by these toxic new authoritarian laws.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Libertycat spotted!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-11/homeless-man-has-throat-slashed-sleeping-in-sydney-cbd/7238978

quote:

Homeless man's throat slashed while sleeping in Sydney's CBD Updated 24 minutes ago

Police are searching for a suspect who slashed the throat of homeless man while he was sleeping in Sydney's CBD. The victim was sleeping on the footpath with another homeless man when the attacker crouched over him and slit his throat yesterday, police said. Officers said the 37-year-old suffered a "substantial" wound. He was taken to St Vincent's Hospital where he underwent emergency surgery. He is currently in a stable condition. The suspect was last seen running east on Wynyard Street towards George Street. He was described as wearing a dark hooded top and jeans. Police have warned the city's homeless community to be vigilant and urged members of the public to look out for suspicious behaviour around people sleeping on the streets.

Why aren't NSW LNP getting a drubbing in the press?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-10/parramatta-jail-could-be-reopened-under-nsw-government-plans/7238084

quote:

Parramatta jail could be reopened to deal with prison overcrowding under NSW Government plans By State Political Reporter Sarah Gerathy Posted yesterday at 7:02pm

The NSW Government is considering reopening the historic Parramatta jail in Sydney's western suburbs to help ease overcrowding in the prison system. The ABC understands that the Government has costed the option of reopening the jail, which has been shut since 2011. In response to the ABC's questions, the Corrections Minister David Elliot provided the following one-line statement. "The Government is considering a number of options to respond to the growth of the prison population." His office did not deny that Parramatta was a strong contender, but said a final decision had not been made. The Government had previously flagged it was considering reopening more prisons to cope with overcrowding in the system, but did not reveal that Parramatta was an option. In November last year, an Auditor General's report found that on average NSW prisons hold more than 11,000 prisoners each day. Official capacity is 9,829. In February, the Government announced 1,600 new prison beds at Parklea and a redeveloped Grafton jail to cope with the record number of prisoners.

However reopening Parramatta jail could be complicated by the fact that a local Aboriginal Land Council was given ownership of the site in February last year. :laugh:

So if you like Schadenfreude:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-11/cassidy-abbott,-credlin-and-the-abuse-of-power/7237386

quote:

Abbott, Credlin and the abuse of power OPINION By Barrie Cassidy Updated 39 minutes ago

To dismiss Niki Savva's book, The Road to Ruin, as scuttlebutt or to just focus on rumours that Tony Abbott and Peta Credlin had an affair is an insult to all those involved who spoke up about the real issue - the abuse of power. Barrie Cassidy writes.

The two elected prime ministers who fell the fastest were Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott. Neither survived a first term, cut down by their own. Why do you think that happened? What was the common thread? The answer is straightforward. They gave extraordinary and dangerous authority to their staff. On top of that, in the case of Abbott - as forensically and convincingly told by Niki Savva in her book, The Road to Ruin - the key staffer, the chief of staff, Peta Credlin, used that "outsourced power" ruthlessly and indiscriminately, subjecting ministers and staff "to regular tirades, replete with vile language". In Rudd's case, he took care of the abuse himself. The great pity with the release of The Road to Ruin is that the distraction around rumours that Abbott and Credlin were having an affair, robbed the more essential debate - around abuse of power - of the oxygen it deserved.

Neither did it get enough attention when Rudd transgressed. As I argued in my 2010 book, The Party Thieves, the more Rudd's popularity soared, the more he ruled alone, taking only sycophantic advice and being answerable to no one - not the party, the executive, the Cabinet or the caucus. MPs complained they were either ignored or abused. Abbott and Credlin though turned that into an art form. The media has focused largely on the visit Senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells made to both Abbott and Credlin raising concerns that many people inside the Government believed they were having an affair. The minister worried that the complex relationship between the two was having a detrimental impact on their lives, on their ability to do their jobs, and on the standing of the Government, and that's why she told Credlin she should go. That's an important conversation, confirmed by the minister. It's not rumour or innuendo. It happened. To suggest that it should not have been in the book is ridiculous. But the telling of that conversation has distracted from so many other well informed anecdotes and experiences that go to the heart of why Abbott failed. That is, Credlin's abuse of both power and people. Here are some examples.

Fiona Telford: Previously, a Victorian-based press secretary who joined the office of Helen Coonan in 2007.

She says the belittling, the intimidation by Credlin, began early, with name calling and finger pointing in front of colleagues. It built to intolerable levels. She was eventually given a dressing down by Credlin who called her "a loving useless bitch". She went home in tears, and says in the book that she fell into a state of anxiety and depression that lasted for more than three years.

Suzanne Kasprzak: An executive assistant. She had handled John Howard's diary for five years and built a reputation as a stalwart and an absolute professional.

For whatever reason Credlin turned on her. According to Kasprzak, Credlin "would go into her office, close the door and start yelling at her. It happened time and again, with Credlin shouting at her that she was moody, she was inefficient, people were complaining about her. On it went." Eventually Abbott called her into his office, told her he had never been better served by anybody, but because of a restructure, she had to go. He gave her a bunch of flowers which she threw in the bin.

Murray Cranston: A devoted long time staffer.

Towards the end of 2012 he told Credlin in front of a full staff meeting that she was the problem; that her mood swings and treatment of junior staff had a dramatic effect on morale. They were tired of being yelled at or sworn at. Credlin fled the room in tears, closely followed by Abbott. The advance man in the office, Richard Dowdy, told staffers he saw the prime minister-in-waiting sitting outside on the kerb of a busy Sydney street, trying to calm down his inconsolable chief of staff. Rather than take Cranston's judgment on board, Abbott counselled him and insisted he buy Credlin a bunch of flowers as an apology. When he presented them, Credlin tossed them aside.

Another staffer, Claire Kimball, had the courage to tell Abbott as she left that he would end up "friendless, policy-less, a national joke, with Peta Credlin still hanging off you".

Senator Fierravanti-Wells told Credlin: "One day Tony will be sitting on a park bench in Manly feeding the pigeons, and he will blame you."

See the pattern? So many people prepared to put their names to these events. Yet the book is being dismissed as scuttlebutt. What an insult to all those involved. And to argue, as some have, that Credlin is being unfairly singled out because she is a woman, is an insult as well; to all those women who have been the victim of sexism. The behaviour so graphically described by staff would be intolerable coming from anybody, male or female. There is no gender issue here. It is nonsense too for Credlin to write that she hopes "this doesn't put off smart women from joining the political fray". Smart women should have no such fears, provided they don't behave as she did. And provided some prime minister into the future does not do what both Rudd and Abbott did: give staffers the authority and clout of the most senior ministers.

Some have argued - and they did in support of Rudd - that those around politicians should toughen up. Abuse comes with the territory. I despair that some journalists coming into the political system in the last 10 years might feel that this kind of behaviour has always been the norm. It never was, not until Rudd came onto the scene, and then Abbott after him. Consider the two most successful long term governments since Bob Menzies - those of Bob Hawke and John Howard. Both administrations were characterised by civility and order within their office structures. It's helpful to look back at key people in Hawke's office, people I worked closely with; the policy advisers. Ross Garnaut (now professor of economics at ANU), Peter Harris (now Chairman of the Productivity Commission), Rod Sims (now Chairman of the ACCC), Sandy Hollway (CEO of the Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games), Dennis Richardson (Ambassador to the US and now head of the Department of Defence), John Bowan (who became Ambassador to Germany), Craig Emerson (who became Minister for Trade) and Stephen Sedgwick (who became Secretary of the Department of Finance). All of them operated with freedom and autonomy, and they did their jobs superbly. None of them would have tolerated a single individual wielding the power that Credlin did; they would not have stood back and allowed the abuse and the intimidation to go on. And neither should they have. By contrast, what will become of those who lived the Abbott experience under Credlin's control?

That's the real lesson of Savva's amazing book. And it was the real lesson of the Rudd downfall as well. How power and authority was used and abused. Absolute power, in Credlin's case, did not corrupt, but it did lead to a deeply flawed system. Absolute power flawed the system absolutely. Rudd and Abbott fell so rapidly. Hawke and Howard prospered for years. What a pity it will be for future governments if the earlier experiences are forgotten; and the more recent lessons are lost as well in a narrow partisan and bitter row over a rumoured affair.

Not Oz but :allears:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-10/pro-gun-us-woman-jamie-gilt-shot-in-back-by-4yo-son/7235802

quote:

Pro-gun US woman shot in back by 4yo son after she boasted about his marksmanship Updated yesterday at 12:02pm

A four-year-old boy has accidentally shot his mother in the back, leaving the passionately pro-gun woman seriously wounded and facing possible charges, Florida officials said. Staunch gun advocate Jamie Gilt, 31, who just a day earlier had boasted online about her toddler's shooting prowess, was cruising down a highway with her son in the back when he shot her. The bullet went through the seat cushion. "Our investigation has revealed that the firearm was legally owned by the victim and the child came to possess the firearm without the victim's knowledge," Putnam County Sheriff's Office said in a statement. Ms Gilt, who is in a stable condition, was so badly wounded that police have been unable to talk to her from her hospital bed.

But they warned that she could face police action after they work out exactly how the boy — who was unharmed and is now with relatives — got his hands on the gun. "Florida statute makes it a misdemeanour for a person to store or leave, on a premise under his or her control, a loaded firearm in such a manner that it is likely a child can gain access to the firearm," said the statement. "Due to her medical condition, detectives have not been able to interview the victim and any decision on the filing of criminal charges will not come until after we speak with the victim." What appears to be Ms Gilt's Facebook page suggests she is a passionate supporter of the right to bear arms, including pictures of her with weapons. On Monday she concluded a discussion on Facebook about possessing weapons for self-defence by boasting: "Even my 4-year-old gets jacked up to target shoot the .22."

In closing, don't touch the 9009.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
And the worst part is once you establish the precedent that you can legislate away natural justice, or common law rights, in a country like Australia where all you really have is precedent from the Westminster system and no bill/charter of rights or constitution based on individual freedoms then it is pretty much game over. Welcome to your brave new Australia. Perhaps we get what we deserve.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Anidav posted:

How does a 14 year old kid get a property portfolio????
A really serious paper route.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
I was going to make an icon instead of a button it was a poop but :effort:

Data retention by stealth. I was? am? a big fan of the ABS but this is wrong on too many levels to support or tolerate. Looks like I have a bunch of dick pics to draw on census night. (Yes I know it's Chris Berg from the IPA, broken clock etc.)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-15/berg-census-privacy-threat/7244744

quote:

If you're worried about privacy, you should worry about the 2016 census OPINION By Chris Berg Posted about 4 hours ago

Any data that can be used usefully can also be used illegitimately. The debate over warrantless mandatory data retention was just the tip of the iceberg, as the ABS's removal of census anonymity demonstrates, writes Chris Berg.

If you blinked, you missed it. On December 18 last year, the Australia Bureau of Statistics announced that at the 2016 census in August it would, for the first time, retain all the names and addresses it has collected "to enable a richer and dynamic statistical picture of Australia". Keeping names and addresses, we were quietly told, would enable government planners to do more rigorous studies of social trends. It is only now that the significance of the ABS's change is spilling out into the press. For the past 45 years, it has been the ABS's practice to destroy that identifying information as soon as all other information on the census forms is transcribed - first onto magnetic tape, and now into vast digital data banks that allow statisticians to slice and dice at their whim. In the 2001 census, the government first offered Australians a choice as to whether they would like their name-identified information kept. This year that opt-in system will be a compulsory system. Your name will be kept whether you like it or not.

The risks to privacy are blindingly obvious. The safest way to protect data is to not collect it at all. The second safest way is destroy that data after collection. There is no such thing as 100 per cent safely secured information. We know this from bitter experience. The last decade has seen a constant stream of unauthorised releases of apparently secure private information: the 2015 Ashley Madison hack being just the most embarrassing of these. After all, privacy risks don't only come from hackers and other rogues. Government departments have a poor record of protecting information from their own staff. The Department of Human Services admitted there were 63 episodes of unauthorised access to private files by its staff between July 2012 and March 2013. The South Australian Police Force accuses up to 100 of its own members of unauthorised access to police files every single year. ABS staff are no more or less virtuous than any other public employee.

The ABS argues that identification information will be stored safely and separately from the rest of the census data, creating a firewall that protects against individual identification. A spokesperson told Radio National last week that the ABS "never has and never will release information that is personally identifiable". There are a lot of unanswered questions here. But no matter what firewalls the ABS places around access and matching, it is a truism that any data that can be used usefully can also be used illegitimately. And of course, what are considered legitimate and illegitimate uses of data can change over time. Rules written in 2016 could be changed in 2026. The data collected now might be used in a very different way down the track. Identification retention could have practical consequences as well. A population that is rightly worried about the security of their information is less likely to answer the census either accurately or at all. Indeed, this has historically been the ABS's big concern with keeping identification. They told a parliamentary committee in 1998 that the reduction in data quality from a reluctance to answer questions truthfully was not worth the trade-off. A lower quality census would lead to lower quality government statistics across the board. A lot of things hang off the census. Census data guides electoral redistributions, Commonwealth grants, education funding and so on. Risking the integrity of all that in the hope that future data might be marginally more interesting to genealogical researchers and government planners seems like a terrible deal.

Although they profess to have changed their mind on the risk of lower quality data, we can speculate these concerns might be why the ABS announced the new policy in the dead holiday season. The less publicity given to the change, the less likely Australians are going to hear enough about the new census rules to be worried about their privacy. While the Coalition's support for traditional rights and freedoms has taken a battering over the past few years, overriding the ABS decision would go some way to reclaiming its liberal heritage. After all, it was a Liberal Treasurer, Billy Snedden, who first mandated the destruction of names and addresses in census forms in 1971 in response to privacy concerns. And Cabinet records show the Fraser government - at the behest of treasurer John Howard - unhesitatingly and immediately rejecting a 1979 proposal by the law reform commission to retain census names and addresses.

The digitisation of absolutely everything has made privacy one of the central problems of the 21st century. If anything, Australians are more aware of the dangers of identity theft and information insecurity than they have been at any time in history. As the ABS change shows, the debate over warrantless mandatory data retention was just the tip of the iceberg. It is true that modern governments are data hungry. Planners and regulators want more and more information about the populations they govern. But to the extent we have an interest in protecting ourselves against government excesses, we have an interest in denying governments carte blanche to collect information. We are not just data points in a planner's spreadsheet. They work for us.

-/-

:siren:Productivity:siren:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-14/verrender-are-we-really-a-nation-of-bludgers/7243708

quote:

Are we really a nation of bludgers? OPINION By Ian Verrender Updated yesterday at 11:46am

Our GDP growth figures look healthy, but buried among the data is our abysmal productivity. You can expect this to feature heavily in the upcoming election campaign, writes Ian Verrender.

"Productivity isn't everything, but in the long run it is almost everything. A country's ability to improve its standard of living over time depends almost entirely on its ability to raise its output per worker." - Paul Krugman.

Are we really a nation of bludgers?

There are many who would argue that, yes indeed, Australians have had it so good for so long, that they have yet to realise the impending dangers posed by the forces of globalisation. As for evidence, you need look no further than economic growth statistics produced a fortnight ago. True, the raw numbers showed the economy was booming. Gross Domestic Product surged to 3 per cent, way above the expectations of pretty much all the experts, and far better than our own recently downgraded long-term expectations for 2.5 per cent. But buried in among all the data was the continuing tale of our abysmal productivity. GDP per hours worked rose just 0.2 per cent in the December quarter, in trend terms, and 0.4 per cent for the year. As the yet-to-be-announced federal election campaign grinds on for the next few months, our declining productivity (Note this is in the highly specialised category of declining multifactor productivity growth) is likely to feature heavily in the ensuing debate.

Everyone will be in furious agreement. Our productivity is a disgrace. It needs to rise if we are to maintain our standard of living as the population ages. And the general consensus from our captains of industry and much of the political elite will be that the answer to our problem is simple; wages need to fall, and our outmoded working conditions need to be overhauled. Just one tiny problem. That easy fix solution won't help our productivity problem. Arguably, it could make it worse because enthusiasm for an employer tends to wane if there's a pay cut on the table. Think about this: If lower pay does indeed lead to improved productivity, why is it that our business leaders insist on multi-million dollar bonuses in their remuneration packages? Surely, they and their companies would be more productive without them.

The truth is that pay is only tangentially related to productivity. Those who argue the connection usually confuse two very different concepts: profitability and productivity.

This may come as a shock. But when it comes to Australia, labour has performed reasonably well. Our big problem, since about 1995, has been a huge underperformance in capital productivity. A recent study from KPMG observed just that. Labour productivity has easily outstripped capital productivity for the past two decades, and always by a wide margin. The report noted: Over this period, labour productivity growth has dipped into negative territory on just two occasions while small positives were recorded for capital productivity growth on just three occasions. Before the union movement raises a victory salute over this stunning outperformance - Workers 1, Bosses Nil - it's worth bearing in mind that labour and capital don't operate in separate universes. Improvements in labour productivity often rely heavily on capital investment. When a business invests in the latest technology, output per worker generally rises.

And truth be known, no one is really certain as to exactly why labour productivity soared back in the late '90s and early part of this century.(An odd claim given that achieving this was the entire point of the Hawke Keating second teir agreement but what-ever I guess) Some economists reckon it was because of micro-economic reform along with the increased competition that arose from deregulation and lower protection. Others think it was the adoption of advanced technology that resulted from the internet revolution. One thing is certain, those changes can't be endlessly replicated. When you remove regulations and free up capital, you get an instant boost. But that growth hit doesn't last forever. Within a few years, the gains start to taper. So maybe we are being unrealistic to expect and demand constantly rising productivity.

In any case, we are not unique. Almost every developed nation is facing exactly the same problem. A possible reason for our poor capital performance since the turn of the century has been the huge investment in our resources industries. During the decade that it took to build and expand the mines and gas plants, they weren't producing. So clearly, they weren't very productive in that period. Since about 2012, however, that's begun to change. Capital productivity has staged a comeback, moving from about minus 3 per cent to about minus 1.5 per cent last financial year. It might be improving but it is still a major drag on our overall productivity. And it may reverse if it turns out that a great deal of that investment was wasted, poured into projects that don't survive the great commodity price collapse.

If there is a flashing red light over our future right now, it is the reluctance of business to reinvest, to tip cash back into the business. That, in turn, is a direct result of the emergency measures that followed the financial crisis. Ultra low interest rates were supposed to boost investment. Instead, they've boosted speculation in property and shares.

Investors seeking yield have piled into stocks that pay good dividends. And company executives have responded, opting to spend corporate earnings on ever bigger dividend payouts in an effort to attract investors rather than reinvesting in their own operations. That failure to upgrade plant and machinery will be sorely felt in the years ahead. It's equally true that infrastructure investment has failed to keep pace with our rapidly expanding population. Our governments have been eager to accept the plaudits from the economic growth resulting from all that immigration. But they've been loath to accept the responsibility of spending adequately on our infrastructure to ensure that a bigger population can work efficiently. None of the above will enter the political debate in the months ahead. No one will point out the real reason for our poor performance or that it is a global phenomenon. Prepare for the usual mindless, simplistic, ill-informed and deliberately misleading debate, all based purely on self interest. Not sure about you, but I can't wait.

I understand that he was tilting at a different windmill but the elephant in the Labour productivity room is the poor standard of management in Australian companies. I've covered this before:

https://thisisseriouscom.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/the-pms-productivity-pact/

https://thisisseriouscom.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/why-your-ceo-is-probably-misguided/

Also you can't help but laugh at the inability of the silent hand of the free market to do anything but touch itself until the world burns.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Wrong thread?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

ewe2 posted:

Well, broken because it affects Chris Berg, he doesn't give a poo poo about anyone elses choices.

Just for information, you can be directed to fill out a census form accurately under sections 10 and 11 of the Census and Statistics Act 1905 and the handy Census Information Amendment Act 2006 made it an offence in section 14 every day the direction is non-complied with. The penalty seems to be a $500 slug so get your wallets out. Only widespread civil disobedience would give them pause, so perhaps it's time we all described our heroic deeds in a galaxy far far away.

edit: of course nothing stops you from making accidental mistakes that would render the information inaccurate.
Have they got a law that thwarts accurate information* AND gnarly dick pics? :colbert: Checkmate ABSailures.

*Actual information encoded in pgp executed as binary dick pics: hard = 1 flaccid = 0 o|o

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

bell jar posted:

Just ordered some thai food. Bloke comes from around the corner within 10 mins, food in hand, gives a little bow.

Wouldn't get service like that under a Greens government.
Did he come by boat?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
NSW takes one more step towards being a police state:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-16/nsw-increases-penalties-for-csg-protests-on-gas-sites/7249372

quote:

NSW to increase anti-CSG protest fines for trespass to $5,500, up to seven years' jail Updated 44 minutes ago

A tenfold increase in penalties for anti-coal seam gas (CSG) protesters who trespass on gas sites is close to passing in the New South Wales Parliament after a marathon debate last night.

Key points:

New laws may see protesters fined $5,500 for trespassing on sites
Survey shows up to 61 per cent of people oppose the laws
NSW Premier says the laws will help save lives
The legislation means people can be fined $5,500 for "aggravated unlawful entry" to certain sites, such as mines.

The legislation also expands the definition of a mine to include gas and gas exploration sites. The change means anti-CSG protesters who interfere with those sites — including those who "lock on" to equipment during protests — risk a maximum jail sentence of seven years. The bill was introduced by the Baird Government and passed its second reading in the Upper House last night with the support of the Shooters and Fishers Party(Scum) and Christian Democrat Fred Nile(Utter scum).

However, multiple amendments that have been put forward on the bill will be voted on today. Yesterday, hundreds of people rallied outside Parliament House to protest against the changes. A poll commissioned by the NSW Nature Conservation Council showed 23 per cent of people supported the tougher protest legislation. But 61 per cent of respondents opposed the increase to police powers and fine hikes for protesters and more than 80 per cent opposed reducing penalties against mining companies. Nature Conservation Council CEO Kate Smolski said the state government is "wholly out of step" with public opinion. "It once again shows that the Baird Government bends over backwards to do the bidding of goal and gas companies and are not listening to the genuine community concern," Ms Smolski said.

'Peaceful protests are fine': Premier

When asked today whether he thought the laws went too far, NSW Premier Mike Baird said the matter was "quite simple". "Peaceful protests were fine," Mr Baird said. "Those that decide to protest and put not only their lives at risk, but workers' lives at risk and try to interrupt businesses that are going about their day-to-day life life. We're asking them not to do it and we're putting measures in place to make sure they don't. Ultimately it's up to them, anyone that wants to protest peacefully, legally, well there's no problem. Anyone that wants to disrupt a business or ultimately act illegally and puts the lives of themselves and others at risk, well we've put these measures in and I think it's appropriate."

The introduction of the legislation came after a series of protests at coal seam gas sites, often involving protesters chaining themselves to equipment, including those by the Knitting Nanas anti-CSG group, which have led to several protesters being arrested. Greens MP Jeremy Buckingham this week pleaded guilty to trespassing on a Hunter Valley coal mine to make a campaign video. He was not convicted, but warned to use legal methods to campaign in future.

Existing system is sufficient: Labor

The Opposition's energy spokesman Adam Searle said the existing law adequately met issues of public safety, trespass, obstruction and criminal damage. We would urge the government to rethink them. We urge crossbench MPs to join with us and vote these laws down today. Labor energy spokesman Adam Searle. He said concerns about recent protests were not a sufficient basis for the changes proposed. "Mr Baird and his Government ministers simply do not want the community to derail any more of their bad policies through community action," Mr Searle said. "They're seeking to stifle dissent by passing these harsh and unnecessary new laws."

Multiple amendments have been put forward on the bill and will be voted on today. "There is still time for people to contact Liberal National Christian Democratic and Shooters Party MPs to tell them 'We want these laws voted down'. "We would urge the government to rethink them. We urge crossbench MPs to join with us and vote these laws down today."

So The Nationals and the Shooters both put CSG above farmers. I'm so very very shocked, oh and appalled. What does Fred actually stand for again? Locking up grannies apparently.

-/-

"Nauru is perfectly safe environment" - A cruel potato

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-15/nauru-rule-of-law-concerns-remain-unaddressed-says-nz-fm/7249416

quote:

Nauru rule of law concerns remain unaddressed, New Zealand Foreign Minister says Pacific Beat By Jemima Garrett, staff Posted yesterday at 8:48pm

New Zealand's Foreign Minister says the country has no plans to reinstate aid funding to Nauru's justice sector while questions over rule of law in the Pacific nation persist.

Speaking to Pacific Beat on the sidelines of a Lowy Institute presentation of New Zealand's international priorities, Murray McCully said he had attempted to re-establish a relationship with Nauru since the withdrawal of aid funding for Nauru's justice sector in September last year. "I've had brief conversations with members of the Nauru Government," he said. "They were discussions intended to try and find a way forward. But sadly that doesn't seem to have been possible and we'll just wait for a time when that is possible. I've made it clear that we are happy to pick up the phone at any stage, that we are happy to look at ways in which can help get back to a normal situation in the justice sector in Nauru, but ultimately that's an area where we have to respect the sovereign rights of the Nauruan Government and ultimately the Nauruan people."

In September 2015, New Zealand suspended the majority of its aid to Nauru, mostly tied to bolstering its justice sector, citing diminishing rule of law. At that time he highlighted the case of Nauru opposition MP Roland Kun, who is one of five opposition MPs banned from taking their seat in parliament since mid-2014, had his passport stripped in June 2015, and is unable to return to his family based in New Zealand. It also followed his country's parliament unanimously passing a motion in July 2015 expressing concern about the political situation in Nauru.

At the same time, Australia's Foreign Minister Julie Bishop also said she had sought assurance from Nauru's president that the country is adhering to the rule of law.

Nauru's 'diminishing rule of law'

Arrested and deported Nauru's magistrate Peter Law in January 2014 while Law was preparing inquiry into the death of justice minister's wife
Cancelled the visa for its chief justice Geoffrey Eames preventing him from re-entering the country
Revoked the visa of Katy Le Roy, legal counsel to the parliament and wife of suspended opposition MP Roland Kun
Suspended five opposition MPs from the 18-seat parliament
Imposed a non-refundable $8,000 application fee for any off-island journalist
Fired Australian police commissioner as investigation into bribery allegations involving the president and justice minister was in progress
Directed internet provider Digicel to shut off access to Facebook, and refused to let the general manager back into the country
Source: Nauru must be held to account for its human rights abuses, The Drum June 2015

"I said to Julie Bishop at the time that it was with great regret that we would have to take this step, but the (Nauru) justice system we were funding was being used for some purposes that we felt we couldn't associate ourselves with," Mr McCully told Pacific Beat. "We gave people plenty of opportunity to change course and to reflect on whether they really wanted us to go, but that was a decision we were forced to make at the time. We've made it clear that we want to ensure that the justice sector that we were funding is carried out in a fairly orthodox fashion, that it's operating in a way that's going to maintain international respect and credibility, and when it was in a space where clearly that couldn't be said to be happening we felt we had to withdraw." In his Lowy address, the Foreign Minister reiterated that: "New Zealand and Australia have a significant stake in the peace and security of the small island developing states in our region."

Mr McCully told Pacific Beat that recent moves by Nauru's Government to raise the fees 20-fold for candidates in the upcoming election, among other concerns, do little to move the situation forward. "Those are the sort of steps that don't take us much closer to a resolution of the difficulties that cause international criticism, and we hope we'll get to a point soon where we are able to start making positive steps rather than negative ones," he said.

-/-

It was all lies Scotty? Say it isn't so (just don't lie this time OK?)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-15/scott-morrison-all-but-rules-out-tax-cuts-in-budget/7249592

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
I'm a radical anarcho-socialist, which superfund should I be in?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Don't choose to be born indigenous you might find your bootstraps missing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-17/10-year-anniversary-of-close-the-gap-campaign-tom-calma/7252774

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-15/federal-government-accused-of-bias-against-indigenous-body/7246482

-/-

Relevant to Unemployment chat:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-17/high-unemployment-rate-raises-concerns-over-growing-underclass/7253390

quote:

High unemployment rate raises concerns of growing underclass on New South Wales South Coast ABC Illawarra By Nick McLaren Posted about an hour ago

A NSW South Coast employment service provider has warned the Shoalhaven region is fostering a growing underclass of unemployed youth who do not appear in official figures.

A report from the Brotherhood of St Laurence released this week, names the Shoalhaven and Southern Highlands as a 'regional hotspot' with a youth unemployment rate of 18.4 per cent, well above the national average of 12 per cent. But Michelle Burke from Habitat Personnel says in reality the figure would be double that, with young people often living in isolated areas where they are virtually uncontactable. "Many of them have left school so they are disengaged with the education system, they are not on any benefit, they are often homeless — couch surfing staying where ever they can stay — and they are under the radar, nobody knows about them," she said. Ms Burke said despite a growth in Defence-related construction jobs locally, many who turn up for work fail the drugs tests and do not have the required skills. "So these employers have stated clearly to government [they have] little to no work ethic, they are unskilled, unwilling to learn, they have a poor attitude, they are unreliable and they are unethical," she said.

Unemployment among older workers

At the other end of the age scale, 58-year old Graham said he had unsuccessfully applied for 62 jobs since October last year. He lost his long-standing job at the Shoalhaven Paper Mill when it closed nine months ago. Graham retrained for work in the growing aged care sector, but found he was not suited to it. Since then he has been on the hunt for work, but believes his age is a major turn off. "As soon as I front up for the interview you can see they nearly turn white when I walk into the room," he said. "They obviously think, look at this guy he's a bit old. They tell you that age doesn't matter, but I can tell you it does." The Illawarra region has recently benefited from a $670,000 adjustment package for 500 retrenched steelworkers, with part of the money going to employ an Illawarra Employment Facilitator. When the Shoalhaven Paper Mill closed in late 2015 with the loss of 75 jobs, retrenched job seekers were offered TAFE retraining courses. Federal Liberal MP Ann Sudmalis stands by the level of government assistance offered. "We did a huge amount of work for the workers from the paper mill," she said. "We secured the transition program, we helped get them into their skilling program in conjunction with the State Government — that's as much as you can do and they secured a good deal from their employer. "You can't magically create a job."

The Illawarra Business Chamber (IBC) wants more government action, especially in creating private sector jobs. "This is very concerning, particularly when the NSW economy as a whole is powering ahead of the other states," IBC CEO Deb Murphy said. "The fact is that young people need jobs, and the jobs of the future here in the Illawarra will come from the private sector."

And a final note on the big/small business regulation kerfuffle. It actually makes next to zero difference what the regulations are because they are so haphazardly administered. There needs to be a Royal Commission into how consumer and competition law is administered as Coles got massive fines (rightly) for their fresh baked daily bullshit yet Woolworths knowingly broke the advertised pricing regulations for months and suffered no penalty despite it deceptively removing millions of dollars from shoppers pockets (They advertised things as on sale when they were actually only reduced in price if you used a loyalty card). Boycott Woolworths.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
All of this stunt pulling does nothing but drag the opinion of Australian's about our political processes further down hill. Meanwhile:

http://www.foodbank.org.au/hunger-in-australia/the-facts/

quote:

Are there really hungry people in Australia?

Yes there are, but hunger is largely a hidden social problem and many victims suffer in silence. Each year two million people rely on food relief – around half of them are children. That’s one in every ten Australians in need.

Despite almost two decades of economic growth nearly a quarter of Australians still live in low economic resource households and 10% live in actual poverty. The prices of essentials like food, health, education, housing, utilities and transport have climbed so much in recent years that people who are already struggling are susceptible to sudden bill shock and financial disadvantage.The current economic climate means people are turning to charity who would never have dreamed of seeking such support in the past. So it’s not just traditionally vulnerable groups such as the homeless seeking food relief, but also the aged, single parents and the working poor.

Children, a casual worker or an elderly couple could be going hungry in any given street. When bills have to be paid, food becomes a discretionary item.

Some statistics about the unlucky people in our lucky country:

105,000 people are currently homeless
2.2 million Australians live in poverty
10.9% of children live in poverty
1 in 4 pensioners live in or close to poverty

Charities are experiencing an alarming increase in demand. According to the Foodbank Hunger Report 2014, in the last twelve months there has been an 8% increase in the number of people seeking food assistance. Charities report that every month they are turning away almost 60,000 Australians seeking food relief due to lack of food and resources.

Some useful references:

http://www.homelessnessclearinghouse.govspace.gov.au

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/

http://www.acoss.org.au

http://www.unicef.org.au
I don't post this to get you to open your wallets and send poo poo to foodbank I post it because it is utterly unacceptable that one of the richest nations in the world has this underclass. Those 10.9% of children aren't lazy. Those 2.2 million people aren't all unemployable bludgers. Having your nation require charities to bail out the disadvantaged says that your government has failed. Vote all of these arse spits out. We need better.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Doctor Spaceman posted:

I think council elections aren't under their purview anyway.
The federal electoral commission certainly has the focus of the Federal election: http://www.aec.gov.au/ http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/AEC_Services/ http://www.aec.gov.au/FAQs/ But can be involved in elections of any stripe.

I'm pretty sure these guys:

https://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/about-us/our-organisation

Should give a rodents posterior about electoral fraud in a poll they are conducting however and if they don't there is a nice letter/email/tweet to the media of your choice.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Cunneen watch. A little late but :shrug:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-18/corruption-watchdog-boss-accuses-inspector-of-bias-over-cunneen/7257748

quote:

Corruption watchdog boss accuses inspector of bias over Margaret Cunneen probe By state political reporter Lucy McNally Updated Fri at 5:41pm

The commissioner of the state's corruption watchdog has hit back at its inspector, saying he has a clear bias against her.

Commissioner Megan Latham today responded to evidence that the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) inspector David Levine gave to a parliamentary inquiry on Monday, describing the agency's investigation into Margaret Cunneen's case as a "debacle" which led to "demeaning blood-letting" in the media. Mr Levine previously wrote a report which slammed the investigation into whether Ms Cunneen told her son's girlfriend to fake chest pains to avoid a breath test. This led to a high-profile feud between himself and Ms Latham. The matter is now being investigated by the state parliamentary committee into the ICAC. Ms Latham told the committee hearing that the commission was denied procedural fairness by the inspector. "The inspector does not refute it," she said. "In fact, he reinforced that denial in the course of his evidence, and I quote: 'I had no intention to engage with ICAC in a tit for tat debate about every alleged flaw, legal error, misunderstanding or non-understanding'." Ms Latham said Mr Levine's evidence on Monday showed he had already made up his mind about whether the Cunneen investigation was worthwhile before he had even looked into it. "Further, he said: 'Even if the doctrine and principles and practice of procedural fairness were applied at the purest level, the outcome would still be carved in granite'," Ms Latham said. "The inspector's evidence on Monday discloses 'actual bias' — that is a partial and prejudiced approach to the assessment of the commission's conduct, and my conduct."

Allegations cannot be described as 'legless': Latham

The ICAC commissioner referred to Mr Levine's choice of language on Monday to support her argument that he was biased against her. "[Words like] 'shenanigans' to describe the commission's procedures, grotesquery, obsession with power ... that my responses included an incomprehensible statement which was made out of desperation and not the exercise of reason," Ms Latham said. She said the ICAC inspector had gone much further in his attack on her on Monday than he had in the report itself. The ICAC commissioner again talked of the important role Ms Cunneen had as a Crown Prosecutor, and why the allegations against her were so serious. "The allegation being investigated cannot reasonably be described as legless or of fundamental triviality or no more than what an ordinary member of the community as a mother would do in the circumstances," Megan Latham said. "I invite the members of this committee to consider whether I would be thought fit to occupy the office of commissioner if I advised my son to feign a physical symptom at the scene of a car accident. I believed or suspected he had consumed alcohol before driving and I knew that such a symptom would result in his transfer to hospital with the consequent delay of ... a blood alcohol test. The answer to that question largely determines the gravity of the allegation that the commission was investigating."

Latham says she has no issue with Levine

Ms Latham admitted she had only met Mr Levine once, despite a memorandum of understanding that said the two should have regular meetings. She said she had no problem with him, but believed he had an issue with her. "I don't understand what the problem is," she said. "I've never had it explained to me why he thinks that I'm sullenly resentful." The chair of the parliamentary committee, MP Trevor Khan, quipped: "It sounds like a broken-down marriage — both parties say it's the other person's fault." The commissioner responded by saying she had never attacked Mr Levine the way he had attacked her. "Mr Khan, all I can say is I have never impuned the inspector's integrity," Ms Latham said. "I have never called him incomprehensible. I have never said that he had acted out of desperation rather than reason." The head of ICAC went further, saying Mr Levine had "no professional respect" for her. She added that she had no vendetta against Ms Cuneen, contrary to what some in the public might think. "I had had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Ms Cuneen professionally," Ms Latham said. "As a matter of objective fact, I had nothing to do with Ms Cuneen since 1994."

Mr Levine was sitting in the parliamentary inquiry room, occasionally muttering to himself as he listened to Ms Latham's evidence.
Shades of Godwin Grech. Once he has been used as their pawn I wonder the fate of mouth for 'hire' Levine? The points (about Cunneen) that Ms Latham make are the simple clear central 'truths' that any follower of the story would accept as being worthy of consideration. If anything this delay (in the hopes it will go away?) is more damaging to Cuneen than if she was granted her day in court.

This is more worrying than the ethical standards of a senior crown prosecutor however. Apologies for any overlap.

http://www.afr.com/news/icac-did-not-trust-nsw-police-with-margaret-cunneen-tapes-20160318-gnlwcb

quote:

ICAC did not trust NSW police with Margaret Cunneen tapes

Why was the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption not prepared to let NSW police hear the tapes of Crown prosecutor Margaret Cunneen? by Geoff Winestock

The NSW Independent Commissioner Against Corruption has revealed she was not prepared to give NSW police the tapes at the centre of her inquiry into senior Crown prosecutor Margaret Cunneen. ICAC commissioner Megan Latham fronted a NSW parliamentary inquiry on Friday to answer a report by the ICAC inspector David Levine, which has accused ICAC of "misconduct and maladministration" in an aborted investigation into allegations that Ms Cunneen coached her son's girlfriend, Sophia Tilley, to fake chest pains to delay a drug alcohol test after a car accident. The inquiry has grabbed headlines in NSW since Ms Latham invited the parliamentary committee to make up its own mind by handing it a series of phone taps made by the Australian Crime Commission (ACC) of Ms Cunneen talking to tow truck drivers around the time of the accident. According to media leaks, Ms Cunneen talked about how she had coached Ms Tilley and expressed concern that if Ms Tilley had been drinking it would render her insurance void. Ms Cunneen has said her words were just "puffery" in the tapes, although members of the inquiry say she was not joking.

The ACC, a federal body, handed its phone taps to ICAC because the possible corrupt conduct it suspected lay outside its jurisdiction. Ms Latham was asked on Friday why ICAC chose to investigate the tapes itself rather than refer them to the NSW police. She agreed with a suggestion that there were "operational reasons" which made it impossible to hand the matter to the NSW police. "There are reasons why that material was not disseminated to the NSW police," Ms Latham said. She did not explain which operation might have been compromised if the tapes were shared with the NSW police but said she could do so in private. The revelation raises questions about the mistrust between the various branches of justice in NSW that has been exposed by the case. The committee said on Friday it would not release the tapes and Ms Latham said she had never wanted them published. She said she had only handed the tapes to the inquiry to help the committee assess Mr Levine's report.

'WHAT ANY MOTHER WOULD DO'

Mr Levine said at the hearing on Monday that Ms Cunneen's behaviour was "no more than what any ordinary member of the community as a mother would do". Ms Latham said officials administering justice were judged by a higher standard, and she herself might deserve to be sacked as ICAC commissioner if she had coached her son to feign illness to avoid a blood alcohol test at an accident. She said the allegations against Ms Cunneen, if proven, were serious and amounted to perverting the course of justice. ICAC was never able to investigate the case because Ms Cunneen won a High Court challenge last year which narrowed the range of cases ICAC can investigate to those which involve allegations of a lack of probity by a public official in the course of their duties. Since then, The Australian newspaper and sections of the NSW Liberal party have led an attack on ICAC, which had already upset them with its 2014 investigation into Liberal party campaign financing. The Liberal-dominated committee seized on the Levine report as an opportunity to curb ICACs powers. But Ms Latham said at the inquiry on Monday that Mr Levine had openly admitted he was biased against ICAC. She said Mr Levine used improper emotive epithets such as "grotesque", "desperate" and "obsessed with power". Ms Latham said she was not to blame for this bad blood. "How can I sit down for a cup of coffee with someone who has used grossly pejorative terms and impugned my professional integrity?"

Are senior police in NSW corrupt? Of course they are. NSW has almost as notorious a reputation for police corruption as QLD. What I'd love to know is what are the links to senior politicians. And once again I assert that, based purely on history, it is sure as poo poo these also exist.

To Federal politics. The nongs who still supporting Abbott.

Where were they seated on the plane that Abbott was flying into the mountain? How can they possibly think that the electoral annihilation that was about to befall their golden child wasn't going to effect them too? It is becoming clear to even the 'great unwashed' (of the shooters and fishers party even) that Right wing scum bozo government MK II is essentially the same goods just sans the actual nazi paraphernalia. Do they think it was the right message just sold badly? If so then today's continuing stream of conscious Tax babble means they didn't hire the right sales team either. More likely it's more of the cold withered skeletal hands grasping at the phylactery of power until the very last possible moment. It would take two airliners and some substantial architectural damage to turn this government into a 'good' one.

I know nobody who actually listens needs to be told this but hope springs eternal: - Don't touch the poop. Please?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

asio posted:

*psst* grown-ups don't poo poo in the bathtub
No kink shaming please this is supposed to be a safe space.

:shrek:
\_____/

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
I had Luke Hartsuyker actually lob at my shop and want to talk politics. I was impressed by him fronting and asked him why the Nats weren't implementing Green policies. He took it reasonably well.

Prison privatisations.

Along with this being terrible economics it is another example of quasi judicial powers being given to private companies. This can not end well. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-20/nsw-jails-private-prison-operators-ohn-morony-windsor/7261300 On ABC radio the minister said that it was a way to check if the private sector could do better. :jerkbag:

:siren: OK free market libertarians, I offer the challenge once again: Demonstrate with actual figures any example of successful outsourcing. Don't try and go with dodgey numbers as I will be checking. Your time starts NOW! :siren:

quote:

The Public Service Association, the union representing prison offices, said further privatisation of prisons was "another short-sighted cash grab". "Privately run prisons in New Zealand have been a debacle, with inmates setting up fight clubs and posting videos of their fights on social media," Mr McMahon said in a statement. "There is no accountability or transparency."

-/-

Just how hosed is the Great Barrier Reef? hosed enough that chief reef shagger Greg Hunt says it's time to stop coral copulation.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-20/barrier-reef-coral-bleaching-threat-level-increased/7261944

Obviously that would mean revoking a bunch of :laugh:

-/-

This should be acknowledged. As in, it happened, a bunch of people came. Otherwise it will remain a little bit pointless.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-20/palm-sunday-rally-to-save-asylum-seekers/7261832

-/-

Looks like Centerlink response times will improve today. Also please don't invade today New Zealand.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-21/public-servants-on-strike-across-australia/7262410

-/-

We might be able to say whether or not Monis was a terrorist or not soon!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-21/sydney-siege-inquest-final-stage-begins-man-monis/7261384

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Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Cleretic posted:

I'm on my phone right now, and also am way too left-wing to actually argue the point, but I do want to point out the example of the post-WWII British automotive sector. That's more of the exception to the rule though, Britain at the time was way too bureaucratic about their approach to stuff like public transport, so their products were almost universally badly designed.
I'll need to see the non-phone post version because:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom

Are you referring to the nationalisation in the seventies? I don't think this is a great example for the pro outsourcing cause, but I await the detailed version.

open24hours posted:

Privatising and outsourcing are different things though. The airline industry is another example of that working.
I'll go with privatisation too. Remember it has to be a nett benefit not just an isolated success. ie Telstra worked great for a few people and only screwed over the majority of people including shareholders.

Cartoon fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 21, 2016

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