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Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
I was glad Daredevil did this. There's a great scene where Ben Urich is typing this scathing article about Fisk that he will submit to his newspaper the following morning. Then that morning he has to delete the whole thing because Fisk gives a live press statement where he basically says the same stuff about himself.

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Electromax
May 6, 2007

Sir Kodiak posted:

I wonder if at some point the movies will reflect that these guys working at newspapers is a full three revolutions behind how news is actually delivered nowadays.

JJ just needs to follow Peter Parker on twitter. "DM me those action shots Pete"

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



Neo Rasa posted:

I was glad Daredevil did this. There's a great scene where Ben Urich is typing this scathing article about Fisk that he will submit to his newspaper the following morning. Then that morning he has to delete the whole thing because Fisk gives a live press statement where he basically says the same stuff about himself.
Everything involving Fisk in that show is amazing. I hope they can do as well with the Punisher (and I guess more of the Hand?) this season.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

The Cameo posted:

Weird to see that since every single report during the casting of BvS kept on saying "oh, at this point, Gordon's dead, the Robins have died or moved on..."

So I wonder what the reason for him not being in BvS is. Retired, maybe?

For Robin, there's actually hints in the trailers that Robin in this version of the Justice League universe turned into the Joker who is in Suicide Squad. This has been a story in the comics and cartoon tv shows, and a lot of the imagery is exactly the same as in those. This is probably completely off base though and not true at all, but it's fun to think about.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

I said come in! posted:

For Robin, there's actually hints in the trailers that Robin in this version of the Justice League universe turned into the Joker who is in Suicide Squad. This has been a story in the comics and cartoon tv shows, and a lot of the imagery is exactly the same as in those. This is probably completely off base though and not true at all, but it's fun to think about.

They should make it like The Dark Knight where his origin is unconfirmed. But instead of the different origins coming from the Joker they come from the other characters talking about him in passing. Like Batman says outright that he was Robin etc., but then a different character mentions something totally inconsistent with that and so on.

cvnvcnv
Mar 17, 2013

__________________
That would just make everyone look stupid as the audience is going to take Batman's word?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Also Joker being Robin is a dumb idea.

Never mind the fact that Leto is the same age as Affleck, the Joker should skew closer to no history than anything. Because he is the Anti Batman. He is the antithesis of Batman. Batman we know his origin. We know every drat detail. They'd ADD stuff to it just to give it EVEN MORE PATHOS, like his dad telling him rock and roll was evil BEFORE THAT ZORRO MOVIE.

Joker does not have a concrete backstory. The best one he ever got was in the Killing Joke, which was contradicted within its own story because, as the Joker himself admits, he remembers it different ways at different times.


Mind a large part of that is because the Killing Joke was about the two of them, if only briefly, transcended their nature as comic book characters and became lucid of what they were. Icons, entities that would exist forever, always changing and always the same. The idea of Batman saving the Joker or making a meaningful change was just a joke, one they both were in on by the end.

Because for better or worse, they will never escape. They can never be fixed. One day some gently caress up is going to have the Joker carve off his own face and Batman is going to die and go into the past and become a God and then they'll be right back to playing cops and robbers.


What I'm trying to say is FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST KILLING JOKE ANIMATED MOVIE, DO NOT gently caress UP

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

soapgish posted:

That would just make everyone look stupid as the audience is going to take Batman's word?

They could do the Batman Beyond twist.

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

that EW guy saying "this is more of MoS basically" is encouraging. will go in mainly with the view that this is a sequel to what that movie built upon.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax
I like to imagine the Joker is a homeless veteran of the Iraqi war, suffering from PTSD mixed with the cocktail of drugs he, as a hobo, was consuming. He has no prints, he lost those to the hadjis. He was trapped in a tunnel while running from the Taliban and saw a woman break a chicken's neck to keep it from giving away their position.

But it wasn't a chicken, it was a baby! Oh god! It was just laughing! Why was the baby laughing? Why couldn't it be quiet?

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

greatn posted:

I like to imagine the Joker is a homeless veteran of the Iraqi war, suffering from PTSD mixed with the cocktail of drugs he, as a hobo, was consuming. He has no prints, he lost those to the hadjis. He was trapped in a tunnel while running from the Taliban and saw a woman break a chicken's neck to keep it from giving away their position.

But it wasn't a chicken, it was a baby! Oh god! It was just laughing! Why was the baby laughing? Why couldn't it be quiet?

joker being more of a legit american hero than the billionaire who beats his face in would be wonderful.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Electromax posted:

JJ just needs to follow Peter Parker on twitter. "DM me those action shots Pete"
JJJ as a traditional print holdout who constantly gets upstaged by Parker's livestreams and tweets would be an amazing angle. Actually, screw the secret identity, he could just be on social media as Spider-Man. Wear a GoPro, it'd be amazing.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

MinibarMatchman posted:

joker being more of a legit american hero than the billionaire who beats his face in would be wonderful.

So did you miss the reference or

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

Burkion posted:

So did you miss the reference or

Alan Alda is too busy being a racist bar owner in a new Louis CK vehicle to play a clown

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

MinibarMatchman posted:

Alan Alda is too busy being a racist bar owner in a new Louis CK vehicle to play a clown

Just making sure.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

My Lovely Horse posted:

JJJ as a traditional print holdout who constantly gets upstaged by Parker's livestreams and tweets would be an amazing angle. Actually, screw the secret identity, he could just be on social media as Spider-Man. Wear a GoPro, it'd be amazing.

Found Footage Spider-Man would be dope.

Moriatti
Apr 21, 2014

Wasn't joker as a disenfranchised veteran kind of quietly his backstory in TDK?

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

Moriatti posted:

Wasn't joker as a disenfranchised veteran kind of quietly his backstory in TDK?

I had never heard this theory before so I googled it. It looks like people are basing the idea off due to his planning skills, explosives knowledge, knowledge of certain procedures (the police funeral scene specifically), and one line of dialogue:
"Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!"

Moriatti
Apr 21, 2014

Yeah, someone mentioned it to me offhand and I thought it made a bit of sense, but could go either way.

Whatever the case, I think the "anti-batman" origin is the closest to the true one.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

sucks to be right

Moriatti posted:

Whatever the case, I think the "anti-batman" origin is the closest to the true one.

The Joker's parents walked unscathed through an alley and he was subsequently unscared by a bat flying through the window???

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice
I always just figured the Joker was some no one who had some kind of vague, unfocused but not outright dangerous mental problems until Batman came about, and his insanity crystallized around that event. Like, maybe he was a bit unsettling before, kind of a loner, the kind of guy co-workers talk about behind his back, but not really noteworthy, and then one day he hears about a guy dressing up as a bat to fight crime and he just gets up and silently marches into the bathroom to slash his face up because I guess that's just what's happening now.

Electromax
May 6, 2007
The JJ outdated newspaper stuff is sort of just a microcosm of the outdatedness of a lot of superhero tenets. Like after the Boston Marathon bombing, there were thousands of photos and videos from the event quickly circulated and shared (with some false positives to boot) but Joker will still be able to set elaborate traps, lace hospitals with bombs, purchase whatever dastardly materials and leak creepy videos to the press without any large-scale organized manhunt materializing, or the use of facial recognition/vocal recognition technology to identify his patterns. TDK makes a big deal out of Batman's spy machine but now the NSA is doing similar stuff daily. I don't mind it in the same vein as "no one recognizes Clark Kent as Superman" but to a pedantic person the existence of secret identities who simultaneously operate regularly in public in spectacular highly-visible fashion gets more and more silly, even before the powers and super-fighting skills and so on.

Although there's probably already some book out there about Old Batman feeling salty and useless because competent cops identify, track down and arrest Joker before he even gets to go all Batman over it when they use modern investigative methods. And/or Joker is a hacker who operates from his mom's basement.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

The Joker's parents walked unscathed through an alley and he was subsequently unscared by a bat flying through the window???

He was scared of a window and a bat in his house flew outside, breaking the window. Then he said "society is ordered and structured and beautiful. I must become a broken window"

greatn fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 8, 2016

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
As underwhelming as Arkham Origins was, just not AS good as the others, I think they did the Joker's first meeting with Batman perfectly.

Before he really understood what and who Batman was, the Joker isn't as focused and is chaotic and destructive, tearing down the old establishments and causing as much chaos as possible. The moment he Gets Batman, realizes that Batman is just as insane as he is, just on the other side of the coin, and will never let the Joker die

That's when everything falls in place for him. The Arkham games had some annoying problems, but goddamn if it didn't tell a good Batman Joker story.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


Electromax posted:

I don't mind it in the same vein as "no one recognizes Clark Kent as Superman" but to a pedantic person the existence of secret identities who simultaneously operate regularly in public in spectacular highly-visible fashion gets more and more silly, even before the powers and super-fighting skills and so on.

And, since I'm the one who brought this, up, my intention was not to complain that the movies are unrealistic, but simply to point out that there's an opportunity that is being wasted to explore what it looks like to be a superhero/journalist in the 21st century media.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN
Man Of Steel does acknowledge the internet. It just says 'gently caress bloggers', which is something I can get behind.

Another good example is Kick rear end 1.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

soapgish posted:

That would just make everyone look stupid as the audience is going to take Batman's word?

If everyone but Batman looks stupid it will be a nice switch from how Batman movies normally play out.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Man Of Steel does acknowledge the internet. It just says 'gently caress bloggers', which is something I can get behind.

In general, sure, but the implication is 'gently caress bloggers' in contrast to, like, mainstream print newspapers, which is like, what?

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN

Sir Kodiak posted:

In general, sure, but the implication is 'gently caress bloggers' in contrast to, like, mainstream print newspapers, which is like, what?

Although I'm sure there is one, I don't actually recall even seeing a newspaper in Man Of Steel. The Daily Planet could be a mostly-online publication for all we know. It's entirely about the journalistic integrity.

Unkempt
May 24, 2003

...perfect spiral, scientists are still figuring it out...

greatn posted:

He was scared of a window and a bat in his house flew outside, breaking the window. Then he said "society is ordered and structured and beautiful. I must become a broken window"

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Although I'm sure there is one, I don't actually recall even seeing a newspaper in Man Of Steel. The Daily Planet could be a mostly-online publication for all we know. It's entirely about the journalistic integrity.

My concern isn't with the distribution format. The New York Times is arguably a mostly-online publication anyways. It's that you don't go to a massive organization like that to practice journalistic integrity anymore. Depicting a newspaper as a bastion of integrity post-Iraq War is as silly as depicting a politician as the same post-Nixon. I'm fine with silliness in superhero stories, but I'd also love to see something different.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

sucks to be right

Electromax posted:

The JJ outdated newspaper stuff is sort of just a microcosm of the outdatedness of a lot of superhero tenets. Like after the Boston Marathon bombing, there were thousands of photos and videos from the event quickly circulated and shared (with some false positives to boot) but Joker will still be able to set elaborate traps, lace hospitals with bombs, purchase whatever dastardly materials and leak creepy videos to the press without any large-scale organized manhunt materializing, or the use of facial recognition/vocal recognition technology to identify his patterns.

Also in this modern era of paparazzi/celebrity gossip websites/obsessed fans/Anonymous/conspiracy theorists it'd be ever more increasingly difficult for any superhero to guard their secret identity, especially if their alter ego is as well known as Bruce Wayne and they don't wear a mask that completely covers their face.
There'd be websites dedicated to recording all their known appearances in an effort to find patterns in their movements and figure out where their secret base was hidden. Characters like Spider-Man who often start their patrols by leaping out their apartment window in full costume would be exposed in a day or two.

Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Mar 8, 2016

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Sir Kodiak posted:

In general, sure, but the implication is 'gently caress bloggers' in contrast to, like, mainstream print newspapers, which is like, what?

She breaks the story via a blogger and not the mainstream print newspaper so the movie seems pretty realistic about this to me. Literally anyone I ever met from any print newspaper either has a blog, a friend's blog for weird stuff and like three podcasts they do on their own or they're actively looking to exit news related work completely. That scene came off to me more as being frustrating because White is doubting Lois and worried about legal ramifications (which he's partially right about, the government comes knocking to find Lois like right after she runs it).

Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 8, 2016

cvnvcnv
Mar 17, 2013

__________________
Journalism is nothing but vultures and assholes, and that's the good news.

-first and last lesson of every journalism major ever

Some complicated web of vultures and assholes conspiring to avoid culpability for their actions don't for good guys in a superhero movie make.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Also in this modern era of paparazzi/celebrity gossip websites/obsessed fans/Anonymous/conspiracy theorists it'd be ever more increasingly difficult for any superhero to guard their secret identity, especially if their alter ego is as well known as Bruce Wayne and they don't wear a mask that completely covers their face.
There'd be websites dedicated to recording all their known appearances in an effort to find patterns in their movements and figure out where their secret base was hidden. Characters like Spider-Man who often start their patrols by leaping out their apartment window in full costume would be exposed in a day or two.

There'd be an exhaustive reddit thread dedicated to figuring out who Spider-Man is that ultimately concludes that he's a plainclothes cop who also happened to be at the scene of a crime, while freep is busy arguing that Superman couldn't be Clark Kent because their aryan wonder-boy would never work for the Jew media.

Neo Rasa posted:

She breaks the story via a blogger and not the mainstream print newspaper so the movie seems pretty realistic about this to me. Literally anyone I ever met from any print newspaper either has a blog and like three podcasts they do on their own or they're actively looking to exit news related work completely. That scene came off to me more as being frustrating because White is doubting Lois and worried about legal ramifications (which he's partially right about, the government comes knocking to find Lois like right after she runs it).

The anachronistic thing to me is that it seems to treat the independent, online publishing of news as this sketchy "blogging" thing rather than just a way to publish stuff. Like, is legitimate news published on Buzzfeed a blog?

soapgish posted:

Some complicated web of vultures and assholes conspiring to avoid culpability for their actions don't for good guys in a superhero movie make.

Which is why I'd be cool with Superman and Spider-Man just moving past the roots in the comics of being journalists.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

sucks to be right

Sir Kodiak posted:

There'd be an exhaustive reddit thread dedicated to figuring out who Spider-Man is that ultimately concludes that he's a plainclothes cop who also happened to be at the scene of a crime, while freep is busy arguing that Superman couldn't be Clark Kent because their aryan wonder-boy would never work for the Jew media.

I guess there'd also be a bunch of schizos claiming they were Spider-Man and trying to get on talk shows, it'd all be a constant shitstorm

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003

Sir Kodiak posted:

Which is why I'd be cool with Superman and Spider-Man just moving past the roots in the comics of being journalists.

Ironically in a movie that many complained wasn't "hopeful" enough the most optimistic thing is the idea of journalistic integrity.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Snowglobe of Doom posted:

Also in this modern era of paparazzi/celebrity gossip websites/obsessed fans/Anonymous/conspiracy theorists it'd be ever more increasingly difficult for any superhero to guard their secret identity, especially if their alter ego is as well known as Bruce Wayne and they don't wear a mask that completely covers their face.
There'd be websites dedicated to recording all their known appearances in an effort to find patterns in their movements and figure out where their secret base was hidden. Characters like Spider-Man who often start their patrols by leaping out their apartment window in full costume would be exposed in a day or two.

This was one of the things Kevin Feige has brought up when explaining why the MCU has done away with secret identities for the most part.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Sir Kodiak posted:


The anachronistic thing to me is that it seems to treat the independent, online publishing of news as this sketchy "blogging" thing rather than just a way to publish stuff. Like, is legitimate news published on Buzzfeed a blog?

She has to specifically go through a renowned but questionable blogger because she's under contract with the Planet, so she can't just take the story to whatever other news site or drop it herself on Medium with her name on it. The idea that online publishing in general is invalid never ocurred to me in that scene (and obviously isn't treated as such by the movie itself, otherwise Lois would never have gotten to meet Superman via the army).

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Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


Neo Rasa posted:

She has to specifically go through a renowned but questionable blogger because she's under contract with the Planet, so she can't just take the story to whatever other news site or drop it herself on Medium with her name on it. The idea that online publishing in general is invalid never ocurred to me in that scene (and obviously isn't treated as such by the movie itself, otherwise Lois would never have gotten to meet Superman via the army).

There's no reason the person she hands her material over to as an anonymous source has to be sketchy. It could have been a friend at some other publication with more independence that she met for a friendly drink. That said, I think the reason they did it that way is to set up the plausibility of the guy eventually betraying her as his source, which is how the military finds out about her knowing who the hidden alien is.

Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 8, 2016

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