BlueBlazer posted:

The rest of the FUCKIN US healthcare system = highway robbery, scam, made to bankrupt anyone who dares get sick.

Tigntink posted:

I tried a bit at a friends insistence and I thought it really didn't taste much different except for a bit of funk.

Considering how easy it is to contaminate milk, i don't see how its worth it.

Mr. Wookums posted:

No idea about the Paul's, but pasteurized milk is as big of a bloodbath for microbes as raw. raw naturally has ecoli and others which, assuming good raising conditions, are not the type to make you sick. With the various other bacteria naturally found its better for lactose intolerant folk too. Listeria is bad and all, but that should only occur due to negligence.

You'll taste a big difference asside from a funk with raw milk cheese and other products, or a different body if the milk hasn't been creamed yet.

Mr. Wookums posted:

We could also irradiated salad greens, but we don't. People ITT are chicken littling a bit. There's only blanket ban of raw milk in a minority of states anyway. It's just not done as it isn't economical. You're also citing the reason raw milk cheese is the best and I doubt those decrying it have actually had any.

Mr. Wookums posted:

Please tell me where I made this claim.

Mr. Wookums posted:

Taste
this

Mr. Wookums posted:

No, you're claiming that's my argument which is weak.

Sword of Chomsky posted:

I feel like my proposed moron list would have stopped this de-rail 2 pages ago. It would just add a header and footer to every tagged user in the list with ****WARNING: MORON***** It would still show their post, unlike the ignore list, that way it can be laughed at more easily.

Anosmoman posted:

What.. what is happening? Did Trump launch Trump Milk?

haveblue posted:

A bunch of legislators lifted a ban on raw milk, drank some raw milk, and got sick. Someone brought this up to laugh at them and a Serious Raw Milk Advocate saw the bat signal or something and leapt into action.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

yeah let's get right on that after we ban tobacco, alcohol, raw fish, and cars that go more than 70 mph

Epic High Five posted:

RIP Louisiana

You should've stuck with Democrats

Now the cycle of recovery and long term planning with federal disaster relief funding -> elect GOP to piss that money away -> teeter on bankruptcy while all services are shuttered begins anew

Joementum posted:

computer parts posted:

So then we have to define "what is a movement exactly".

Casimir Radon posted:

I hope he was driving drunk. Maybe he has PTSD from knocking Sarah up 4, er, 5 times.

quote:

The intensity of Palin’s temper was first described to me in such extreme terms that I couldn’t help but wonder if it might be exaggerated, until I heard corroborating tales of outbursts dating back to her days as mayor of Wasilla and before. One friend of the Palins’ remembers an argument between Sarah and Todd: “They took all the canned goods out of the pantry, then proceeded to throw them at each other. By the time they got done, the stainless-steel fridge looked like it had got shot up with a shotgun. Todd said, ‘I don’t know why I even waste my time trying to get nice things for you if you’re just going to ruin them.’ ” This friend adds, “As soon as she enters her property and the door closes, even the insects in that house cringe. She has a horrible temper, but she has gotten away with it because she is a pretty woman.”

McDowell posted:

"By illegally accessing intimate details of his victims' personal lives, Mr Collins violated their privacy and left many to contend with lasting emotional distress, embarrassment and feelings of insecurity," said David Bowdich, the assistant director in charge of the FBI's Los Angeles field office.

Epic High Five posted:

I think the fear is common because deep down they know their own guys are so bad in every way, and Obama is so popular, that he'd win in a landslide and they'd get Trollbama Returns

Just tell them that his wife despises DC and she's already put up with it for 8 years. If they've been married for awhile that may convince them that Obama would deeply regret trying something like this

zoux posted:

Can we put it in the thread title that head to heads have no predictive value prior to the general?

ComradeCosmobot posted:

I mean, I get what people are saying, and they're right: Hillary and other major elected officials shouldn't stoop to Trump's level. But that doesn't mean that it's neither possible nor desirable for a surrogate to stoop to Trump's level.

If Bill was calling Trump a loser and a hater? Well have at it, I say!

zoux posted:

You don't like watching internet liberals flail ineffectually against a conservative strawman?

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

Is "hot take" the new D&D shiny bauble phrase?

Mr. Nice! posted:

No one actually pays corporate income tax unless they're making millions a year and not investing it back in the company. The whole double taxation is a boogie man myth made to line the pockets of the wealthy. I own multiple small businesses and even if they grew larger than my wildest dreams will never pay corporate income tax.

Also the idea of capital leaving the country is silly as well. All the talk like that is buying into stupid poo poo like trickle down economics. We don't need to worry about the rich or cater to them. That's why we're in such lovely shape in the first place.

Hollismason posted:

Property Taxes at the local level are brutally unfair to lower income families and minority neighborhoods. If you want to take in a massive amount of property tax increase the taxation for properties over 600,000 dollars and give more exemptions for persons making less than 100,000.

Proportionally people pay more for property taxes depending on the income. So you'll have a home in North Chicago priced at 500,000 and a home in South Chicago at 250,000 which have basically the same tax owed amount.

Hollismason posted:

The median home value in Chicago is $200,000 dollars. That's not a insane palace. Cook County it's a little lower. So I'll give you a example of how property taxes can appear to be progressive and most of the time are not. They lean toward lower tax values on higher priced home for a reason because higher income neighborhoods have well more political sway.

Let's move away from Cook County let's look at New York. I'll explain how gentrification hurts middle income home owners and how property taxes are actually not progressive.

YEAR CLASS 1 CLASS 2 CLASS 3 CLASS 4
15/16 19.554% 12.883% 10.813% 10.656%

So we have property classes for base rates.

Tax Class: Property in NYC is divided into 4 classes:
Class 1: Most residential property of up to three units (family homes and small stores or offices with one or two apartments attached), and most condominiums that are not more than three stories.
Class 2: All other property that is not in Class 1 and is primarily residential (rentals, cooperatives and condominiums). Class 2 includes:
Sub-Class 2a (4 - 6 unit rental building);
Sub-Class 2b (7 - 10 unit rental building);
Sub-Class 2c (2 - 10 unit cooperative or condominium); and
Class 2 (11 units or more).
Class 3: Most utility property.
Class 4: All commercial and industrial properties, such as office, retail, factory buildings and all other properties not included in tax classes 1, 2 or 3.

Now at first this seems to be on the up and up however. A important thing to look at is Assessed Value

Level of Assessment: The % of market value used to calculate your property’s assessed value. Also known as the assessment ratio.
Tax Class 1 - 6%
Tax Class 2, 3 and 4 - 45%

Class 1 generally free standing residential homes are Assessed at 6% rate

Now I am not overly familiar with the exemptions since I don't work in New York city, but I can still demonstrate how this is just completely bonkers.

1,000,000 dollar value x 6% Assessed Rate (60,000)- Exemptions x 19.54% = 11,724
(This property class includes mansions)

100,000 dollar Condominium x .45% Assessed Rate ( 45,000) - Exemptions x 12.83% = 5773

Okay so you have something that is 10 times the rate that seems pretty fair and equalized.

Wrong.

Now we get into actually tax assessments where it's apparently Class 1 is capped at 6% and 20% over a given number of years maximum for the increase. This means your assessment (60,000) goes up 6% each year but once it reaches 20% it maxes out.

Where as a condominium owner will be capped at 8% each year and no maximum increase over maximum. This means that your assessment can just keep increasing with no cap.

Here's a news article

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/higher-income-areas-taxes-poorer-counterparts-article-1.1470735


Now let's look at Gentrification, stagnate wages, and bubble real estate markets

Assessed Value generally is based on sales in the area.

Let's say you buy a 150,000 starter home. Your taxes are 1500 a year. You make 75,000 dollars
Next year three of your neighbors sell their homes for 375,000 dollars.
Your assessed value increases to 210,00 Dollars
You Appeal.
You win, but assess value is 190,000
Your taxes are 1900 dollars, You make 77,000 Dollars
Four more homes sell in your neighborhood , 410,000 dollars on average
Your home value increases to 240,000 , you do not receive a raise 77,000 income
Your property taxes are now 2400 dollars
Real Estate Market Crashes , your wife loses her job whatever happens, your income is 50,000 dollars.
Assessor still values your home at 240,000 dollars.
Your taxes are 2400 , you make 50,000 dollars

Now repeat this for about 15 to 20 years. This cycle just keeps occurring. Your wages stagnate, your home value increases, your property value goes up because of sales.

This is how people get crushed by Property Taxes.

Filthy Hans posted:

The problem isn't that the house value goes up and the owner can't afford the taxes, but rather when the bubble bursts and the house value plummets. The owner will still be paying higher taxes and won't be able to sell his house at a worthwhile price because the market is depressed at that time (other middle-class homeowners are in the same boat). Combine higher property taxes, lower wages and no buyers for the house and you get people being ruined by their property taxes.

Also, "taking pity on poor owners of land in a major city" is not bullshit like you think it is because when homeowners get no relief their houses go for pennies on the dollar to the wealthy, and then those former homeowners will become permanent renters which is terrible for the middle class, the economy and everyone other than the slumlords writ large who own the land.

Shifty Pony posted:

Over 80% of people think buying a house is a good financial move and residential equity represents around 60-70% of net worth for the middle three income quintiles. The idea that housing is an investment (and a good on at that) is so throughly embedded in our society that it has become a fundamental economic assumption for most of the country. If you think talking about social security is a third rail in politics then talking about reducing government support for housing prices is like parachuting into an electrical substation.

fishmech posted:

Most long time residents in really big cities aren't owning, they're long term renters.

Property taxes should never be lowered as they are a necessary form of revenue.

No, the middle class in New York City is largely renting and therefore only paying property tax indirectly from the portion of their rent that goes tot he landlord paying. The same holds true in most large cities with high property values and density.

fishmech posted:

And outlying areas tend to have lower property values to boot. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Hollismason posted:

They're assessed value is lower and there's runaway assessments.

Hollismason posted:

Property Taxes can be a great way to tax the wealthy unfortunately, because they are wealthy they can influence politicians to reduce their property taxes. Actually going into the history of Property Taxes it was considered by many a direct tax on the wealthy.

Hollismason posted:

Telling someone to just sell their home they've live in for 20 years because it's a artificially inflated price and over evaluated is ridiculous.

Hollismason posted:

Democrats really don't want Universal Healthcare, in fact has it ever been a platform issue?

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

A section titled:


Has been in every Democratic presidential platform since 1932.

Necc0 posted:

hey remember when i said there was a reason the dem primary garbage was firewalled???? ????

Hollismason posted:

3. Fiscally Conservative but Socially Liberal

Boon posted:

It's two pages of Hillary/Bernie slapfighting... The same slapfighting that resulted in the thread being gassed not a mere month ago.

A fact that wouldn't elude you if you pulled your head out of your rear end.

Also, both posters you mentioned get poo poo on consistently.

Necc0 posted:

HMM IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE DEM PRIMARY THREAD WAS FIREWALLED FOR A REASON

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

I want a non-insane thread to discuss the primaries in though.

Necc0 posted:

HMM IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE DEM PRIMARY THREAD WAS FIREWALLED FOR A REASON