How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Helsing posted:

OK, but if I understand it correctly if she says "I want you to gently caress me" and then she grabs me by my shirt, pulls me into a passionate embrace, pulls off my clothes and fucks me, technically she never gained my "affirmative consent" and I could later say that I was raped by her?

Yes.

For affirmative consent, she should say "I want you to gently caress me" and then wait for you to say "gently caress yes" before proceeding with the shirt grabbing.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 22:20

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 23:31

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Ddraig posted:

So to answer your question, in that scenario if you, say, took your pants off or stuck your tongue down her throat, congratulations, you've affirmatively consented!

Likewise if you push her away, run screaming or say "Not tonight, dear" at any point then that's a clear and unambiguous denial of consent and if she doesn't respect that and continues anyway, you've been raped.

More importantly, if you just kind of let it happen (don't kiss her back when she kisses you, don't grab those wonderful funbags (which you would only do if she indicated it was OK), just stare at the ceiling while she rides you, etc.) then that is also not affirmative consent and you have been raped. The whole point of affirmative consent is that you don't have to clearly and unambiguously deny consent, you just have to fail to clearly and unambiguously grant it.

Helsing posted:

Uhhhh, now I have one person claiming this is a fringe position and the other person saying its the essence of affirmative consent

We're both right-ish.

quote:

Affirmative consent is a knowing, voluntary, and mutual decision among all participants to engage in sexual activity. Consent can be given by words or actions, as long as those words or actions create clear permission regarding willingness to engage in the sexual activity. Silence or lack of resistance, in and of itself, does not demonstrate consent. The definition of consent does not vary based upon a participant's sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression.

SUNY

So, I should have been more clear that she should wait until you say "gently caress yes" or otherwise positively demonstrate that you're totally into it. Ddraig needed to be more clear that even if it's non-verbal, affirmative consent still needs to be affirmative.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 22:38

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Helsing posted:

Wait, how does she indicate that its ok for me to touch her breasts? You seem to be saying that if she kisses me and starts to remove my shirt, and my response is to put my hands on her breasts (or her rear end, her thigh, or anywhere else I guess) then I've crossed a line because instead of getting affirmative permission from her I just went ahead and touched her and waited to see if she resisted me. So if we're kissing the idea here is I have to look at her and say "maybe I touch your breasts?"

Well, I have to admit that I was being a little bit facetious. From a practical point of view, there probably aren't too many people who would complain that you committed sexual assault because, during otherwise completely consensual sexual intercourse, you grabbed their breast without asking first^*, but why don't we examine this anyway.

So, how can we get affirmative consent to touch someone's breast?
Wait until they say "please touch my breasts!"
Ask "may I touch your breasts?"
Place your hands on their body near their breasts (like on their side) and wait until they move your hands or say "yeah baby, grab those puppies!"
Reach towards their breasts but don't touch them and wait for them to lean into your grasp or move your hands or say "what are you waiting for baby, these knockers are all yours"
Say "Holy gently caress I wanna grab your tits!" and then wait for them to say "gently caress yeah!" or grab your hands or otherwise actively indicate that that is something that they are (at least) OK with you doing.

^*_{That being said, I don't mean to indicate that just because someone is DtF they automatically have consented to everything. Obviously if you're engaging in some lovely, consensual PiV intercourse, you don't get to pull out and do anal without making sure they are also OK with that. So how can we get affirmative consent to stick your penis in someone's anus?

Wait until they say "I would like to have receptive anal sex with you now."

Ask "how do you feel about anal sex?"

Pull out and slide the head of your penis along their perineum, but don't actually stick it in unless they say "yeah baby, gently caress my rear end" or they reach down and guide your penis in there.

Etc.}

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 23:25

Jethro: Jun 1, 2000; I was raised on the dairy, Bitch!

Helsing posted:

It kinda seems like the ultimate message of affirmative consent is "don't hook up with strangers" and "don't have spontaneous sexual liaisons". Is that a fair characterization?

No, it's "Don't have sex with someone unless they make it clear that they want to have sex with you. Don't assume that someone wants to have sex with you just because they never said (or stopped saying) 'no.'"

It's true that it's probably easier to be sure that you've gotten affirmative consent in the context of a long-term relationship, but it's certainly not impossible, and it doesn't require putting together an 11 page fornication contract.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 23:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?