How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Off topic, but can anyone here recommend a good source that explains the sociology and/or history of the honor killing of rape victims, particularly in a Western context?

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 18:27

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 21:39

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Who What Now posted:

In the sense he had sex with her when she did not want him to. You know, in the sense of rape's literal definition.

Is the man criminally culpable in this example?

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 18:48

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

SedanChair posted:

You guys are so jumpy. What you ought to be worried about is whether people actually want to have sex with you, not whether you'll be charged with a crime.

But the accusation alone is life destroying in financial if not social terms. If someone can decide at any point, including after the fact, that a rape has taken place, even if the alleged perpetrator has no reason to believe they are acting criminally (and in the example above, actually have affirmative consent as far as they know), then every sexual encounter is a game of Russian Roulette.

Who What Now posted:

Almost certainly not. But not being a crime doesn't also make it right.

Is this a "personal truths" thing? Because this seems to only be wrong for the woman in this example. The man does not have access to her inner world.

Is it even useful or helpful for the woman to interpret what happened in this situation as rape?

unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 4, 2016

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 19:01

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

SedanChair posted:

Holy crap! I guess the more clear and enthusiastic the consent you secure, the better then! You should probably even be really deliberate about it.

What if she verbally and explicit consents but, as in the example being discussed, didn't "actually" consent in her heart of hearts? Is that rape? Some say yes, and that's scary!

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 19:09

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Who What Now posted:

Ok, but I still don't understand what inconsistency you think you've pointed out there. Again, what he's saying is that the problem is on a scale and is not simply the binary of "raped vs not raped".

"The Court hereby finds you guilty of rape... kinda? Like definitely on the rape spectrum but maybe not a hard 10."

e.
I mean I agree we need to supercharge our education of consent and develop a more nuanced understanding of rape, but I don't see how that makes its way into a justice system that must ultimately rule that someone is either guilty or not guilty of committing a crime.

unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 4, 2016

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 22:51

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Who What Now posted:

I give literally no fucks about whether or not something would be convicted in a court of law in this context.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion: You Are Racist > How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 23:07

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Discendo Vox posted:

Are you looking for something book-length? It's not my area, but I can ask around at my university. Just to be clear, when you say "western context", are you looking for historic practices? A quick look around suggests that modern honor killing of rape victims in the West is pretty exclusively coming out of immigrant enclaves from societies where the practice still persists. I know, it sounds terrible, but that's what the case appears to be.

A book would probably be best since I doubt I have access to online journals any more through my old school. But historic practices, yeah -- it's easy enough to find discussion of the practice happening in modern immigrant enclaves, but the reason it sparked my interest is because I am re-reading Titus Andronicus and Shakespeare includes it in the play. Even if he's borrowing from Roman mythology, it made me curious about the practice as it occurred in Europe.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2016 01:11

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 21:39

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Discendo Vox posted:

I forgot that spring break just started, but I found a perfectly targeted academic book that's free online: Men and Violence: Gender, Honor, and Rituals in Modern Europe and America. This doesn't focus on rape as a triggering event, but it's the best I can do in the short term. The index says that there is discussion of the "rape-lynch complex" at pages 20-21 and 218-221. I think I may have a couple others that will cover the subject less directly, but I can't get you direct access to them, and I'm not going to be able to go check them manually. All of them are held by my university's collections, so they're probably reliable.

'Honour': Crimes, Paradigms, and Violence Against Women
This one mostly focuses on the Eastern current context of honor killings, but does so specifically to debunk the islamophobic narrative framing of such practices. Probably not quite what you're looking for.
Why we kill: understanding violence across cultures and disciplines
This one appears to use a cultural constructivist account. "oh, you don't think this one counts? That's because your upbringing in country X with value Y makes you discount Z"
Unto the daughters: the legacy of an honor killing in a Sicilian-American family
No detailed info on this one.
American honor killings: desire and rage among men
This one is actually focused on men who murdered other gay men, usually in the context of some sexual act or advance (real or perceived).
Honor and violence in Golden Age Spain

Awesome, thank you!

# ¿ Mar 5, 2016 17:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?