How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > How do we fix the way rape is handled legally?

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Helsing posted:

OK, but if I understand it correctly if she says "I want you to gently caress me" and then she grabs me by my shirt, pulls me into a passionate embrace, pulls off my clothes and fucks me, technically she never gained my "affirmative consent" and I could later say that I was raped by her? Or, implicitly, is it just the man who needs to get consent here?

I recognize that this sounds like right wing concern trolling but I am quite sympathetic to feminist critiques of rape culture, have personally known victims of sexual assault, and am very concerned not to come off as treating this problem flippantly. If there's some kind of well established FAQ or essay on this topic you can refer me to that'd be fine as well.

Prior to the "I want you to gently caress me" moment, the people involved should have had an adult conversation about whether they want to have a sexual relationship, and nature and borders of what that would entail. Having that knowledge, you should be able to figure out whether passive compliance constitutes consent or not.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 22:07

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 15:05

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Talmonis posted:

This doesn't seem so easy to do. It seems really awkward, and would be very difficult for anyone with any kind of anxiety or confidence issues to do. How does such a conversation start anyhow?

I'm used to the progression of "the bases" to put it crudely. Things get heavy on their own. Someone takes the lead, and if the other isn't into it, they stop it. If it doesn't stop there, it's rape.

It's certainly not easy, but the last person I had that conversation with was also being treated for an anxiety disorder, so I don't think there is an excuse here. Operating in a way that requires a party to actively resist should present a clear problem, beyond the obvious tactical errors of having sex with someone without knowing if they would get an abortion, et cetera.
edit:

Helsing posted:

This would seem to kill a lot of the fun an spontaneity of hooking up with someone for the first time. I have trouble imagining the average high school or college aged person actually following through on this kind of prescription.

I mean this is true, but it's because your average person <25 routinely makes bad choices.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 22:27

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Helsing posted:

So if I meet someone at a bar or a party, we hit it off, are getting a bit touchey feeling, and head somewhere more private, I'm supposed under this system to slow things down and ask the girl "if the condom breaks and you get pregnant will you be having an abortion?"

I mean not having children is pretty important to me, so I would ask this question. If you are indifferent to or want to raise a child with a stranger feel free to not have that conversation.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 22:32

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Helsing posted:

In addition to the fact this question seems like one of the most unsexy things I could possibly utter just before making love to someone I also don't think it would reveal anything meaningful because I don't expect most women actually know how willing they'd be to get an abortion prior to actually facing such a situation. I think as a man you just have to accept that when you have sex with someone who is capable of having children then you're at least theoretically risking that possibility.

Sure they can be wrong or change their mind, so there is always inherit risk, but I like to minimize that risk. Like I said choose your own risk level. I also don't generally discuss expectations directly before sex, it's generally "Hey we like each other, let's talk about what that means on Saturday" "Ok that was a pretty intense conversation, but we now understand what we each expect of the other person which is good, let's go eat/play a game/watch a movie/et cetera". There seems to be a lot of focus on what to do if you want to have sex immediately, which I think is just a sub-optimal scenario.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2016 22:56

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