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How in gently caress's name would prohibition solve even the majority of the problem of rape and rape culture?
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Mar 2, 2016 21:09
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mastershakeman posted:Are you for real Well, if you're talking about prohibiting rape itself, I think it's pretty clear that hasn't worked. If you're talking about prohibition as in the prohibition of alcohol, which is what I took the original quote to mean, yes: I don't see how one is related to the other. I drink frequently and I've never raped anyone. I've been around drunk women both when I've been drunk and when I've been sober and I've never had sex with anyone who wasn't able to consent. The issues relating to intoxication and consent are a smokescreen to distract from the issues around rape culture which are more difficult to address.
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Mar 3, 2016 18:25
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SedanChair posted:Consent is the entire issue. Until men understand it rape will not decrease because they cannot tell when they are committing rape. Rape for them is "guy in the bushes with a mask." I'd add that, if men are purposefully getting women drunk to have sex with them, it's not really a problem with the alcohol so much as the men in question.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:24
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JFairfax posted:that's a big if. I'm getting confused about what people think is actually happening. If alcohol is not being used to facilitate pseudo-consensual (by which I mean sex which, while not consensual legally or morally speaking, is not actually resisted) sex, then how does it have any relationship to rape or rape culture whatsoever?
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Mar 3, 2016 19:43
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JFairfax posted:men can get drunk and have sex they regret as well. You're correct, I shouldn't have assumed men were the ones using alcohol to bypass consent and that women were the ones being taken advantage of, because it happens both ways and presumably with homosexual relationships as well.
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Mar 3, 2016 19:59
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JFairfax posted:if someone is passed out or unable to speak then they're not able to give consent, but if you're both drunk then what happens if you're both unable to give consent? are you both raped and rapists? I think it is dependent on the situation. I don't think it ought to be a strict liability crime in the same way that drunk driving is, but if both people feel that they did not consent to sex, then I suppose they could theoretically both be rapists. I'd also say that, just because someone feels they got taken advantage of sexually while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, in terms of doing something they otherwise would not have done, doesn't mean they actually have to consider themselves a victim of rape or sexual assault -- it simply means they can and should be taken seriously. As for "bypassing consent" I'm referring to constructing or seeking a situation where someone consents inasmuch as they appear to consent, but are legally and/or morally unable to actually do so. To be honest, I was a lot more worried about "grey areas" before I was actually in a situation where I could've had sex with someone who'd drank themselves into near-oblivion. It is the least sexy thing I can possibly imagine, and in that moment, I was crystal clear on the fact that, if we'd have had sex, it would've been morally and legally wrong. If you really have to ask yourself if something is consensual or not, or if the other person is actually able to give consent, maybe you should just avoid it altogether at that point.
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Mar 3, 2016 20:14
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Helsing posted:Jesus Christ you're suggesting we drop both the right to silence and the presumption of innocence? How else do you think we're supposed to deal with
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Mar 3, 2016 20:57
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So, you believe it's better to send an innocent person to prison and likely ruin their lives rather than let a guilty person go free -- literally the exact opposite of the founding concept of American criminal jurisprudence? That's kind of hosed up. Rape is bad, but I don't think suspending due process is a good way of fixing it.
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Mar 3, 2016 21:40
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Thermos H Christ posted:And yes, I will gladly go on the record saying I would rather see 100 rapists put back on the street than see one person wrongly convicted of rape. See also: every other crime. I would rather see 100 murderers go free than see one person wrongly convicted of murder. So if you want to call me soft on crime go for it, Dirty Harry. Me too. It'd be pretty cool if we could get a higher conviction rate for crimes in general without increasing the number of false convictions, but I see no evidence that it's particularly feasible for rape or any other crime.
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Mar 4, 2016 05:47
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| # ¿ May 14, 2024 12:29 |
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Here's a good standard: don't have sex with people who don't want to have sex with you. It's not like taking the loving garbage out, it's an activity that both people should be into. And if you're not absolutely sure they want to have sex with you, you should ask them!
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Mar 4, 2016 17:35
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