|
Ultron is cool and good, and my friend.
|
#
¿
Mar 3, 2016 23:08
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 23:01 |
|
|
Ignatius M. Meen posted:We don't even have the political will to do something comparatively simple with computers like create maximally fair voting districts through an already mathematically figured solution instead of creating them by hand and gerrymandering them to hell and back, how are we supposed to get to technocommunism in our lifetimes from there? You start with that.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2016 16:20
|
|
|
Your Dunkle Sans posted:
Arguably the information systems of paper/telephone/television are too slow and authoritarian to acheive such a social and economic change. I think it is no coincidence that Gorbachev's USSR was completely obliterated before it could integrate innovations that were starting around the same time.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
Cicero posted:And yet, every time someone tries to reverse this, it seems to go rather horribly wrong. Venezuela has been slowly becoming more socialist ever since Chavez took power, and initially there were some good gains for the poor, but now at this point it's an unmitigated disaster. That's because socialism is still run by humans, and it's still corruptible by humans; even if the high-level objective is good, the individual actors are still more than capable of doing selfish or dumb things that break the system for everyone. Venezuela's problems seem to have three sources 1) Petro economy and irrational mass demand for practically free petrol 2) Sanctions / outside fuckery - lots of gas and no toilet paper in the western hemisphere? Come on! 3) Individual greed/corruption Free travel and trade between the 50 United States is supposed to be the leading example for what globalization can be. But we just love our destructive antagonisms too much.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 5, 2016 02:32
|
|
|
Cicero posted:
Yes - I dream that one day the borders between all American nations could be just as real as borders between US states. That would be my alternative to TPP.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 5, 2016 02:44
|
|
Free travel and trade between the states seems to work just fine to me.
|
The problem is that socialism constrained to a nation-state is prone to failure. The economic global cybernet exists, but let's be honest - its a mess.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 5, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
The USA needs to take the lead developing human resources laws and a new system of citizen profiles for education, employment, etc. The rest of the western hemisphere can use the same protocols so there is reasonable free travel and commerce.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
It can begin in the US. You need to update the social contract with modern telecommunications - everyone from the janitor to the CEO will be an 'independent contractor' with clear responsibilities and compensation. The 40 hour work week will be replaced with a more dynamic system of a primary profession and secondary 'public' jobs like driving and park maintenence. It's less about AI and more about IT - the administrators of such a new state would all be elected and the unelected middle managers of today would be replaced by direct communication and 'crowdsourcing'. Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Mar 6, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
Pope Guilty posted:Just post the name of your startup already. Nah I'm doing a biotech entrepreneur thing that I would later turn into a political platform if I make it. We're all social entrepreneurs.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
I think a more substantial topic is 'Socialism in a Digital World'. During the industrial revolution factories and mines ran continuously, hungry for labor from both sexes and all ages. The labor movement moderated that demand with child labor laws, minimum wages, the 40 hour week, and so on. The two world wars and the cold war help establish and maintain this state-brokered capital-labor system. Today assembly lines need far less human muscle as Marx predicted, but outside that model there is also an enormous change in how many people are needed for record keeping. Once a modern information system is established it needs far less labor to update and maintain compared to paper and other physical archives. Similarly information goods (books, videos, software) can be reproduced and distributed at almost no cost. While global oligarchy wants every human being to be wired into the internet - it does not want 'means of production' (CAD, compilers, and other software) to be freely available. The left must defend opensource software and general computing. On a related note of how much we depend on information systems - I wonder if IBM, Microsoft, Apple, and Google have become 'too big to fail' just like GM and the banks. Facebook or Twitter could tank (they won't as long as they have utility for the State Dept and the NSA) - but any one of those 4 closing and ending product support would have huge consequences.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
Yeah I was kind of implying that in my post - the economy is undergoing a very awkward transition where nothing can be 'rationally' valued. In both agrarian and early-industrial societies demand for muscle/brain power is only limited by raw materials (the former produces subsistance and the latter produces abundance). In the modern economy a team of engineers can produce hardware/software that deskills entire professions - contributing to today's overabundance.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:where tools were created to make life easier for labour I would disagree with this - early industrialization was about efficiency and productivity (that shift from subsistence to abundance I mentioned). The tools were created to get more product from each hour of labor - and then labor was expected to work around the clock. Stalin's brutality was the agrarian/industrial transition in fast forward.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
I'm a big fan of Plan C. As I said - we live in overabundance. Too many things, too many people, and none of the balance sheets really add up.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Hopefully the central planning AI can also tell us which people need to be forcibly sterilized or aren't worth expending medical care resources on. I don't think it needs to be forcible. Most 18 year old guys would accept a free vas deferens valve - the tricky thing is setting up licensing for reproduction - the criteria and the number of licenses issued annually might be the work of a computer.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2016 22:52
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:It's weird how people are willing to let random chance and individual decisions determine who lives in abundance and who dies, rather than a central politburo of technocrats and their pet AI, huh? A mix of chance events and individuals making selfish decisions has destroyed every human society. The stakes have never been higher in human history.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Also, lol at the idea that Catholics and observant Muslims, just to name two, are going to go for a surgically implanted valve that limits their ability to bear children unless they're approved by the state. I'm a radical secularist. I want to defeat Daesh in one day and remind everyone that E=mc^2 is more true than any holy book. Hey what happens when population growth exceeds economic growth in nonsocialist economies?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Boogaleeboo posted:And when that just gets you blinks and "Ok?", then what do you want to do? Warriors, come out and playyyyyyyy
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:This is rather absurd because it's true of all economies, whether or not they are centrally planned. It's a tautology. But you see population control through war, poverty, and disease means I can chalk things up to random chance and individual choices and feel like I am separate and innocent of the world.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2016 15:48
|
|
|
OtherworldlyInvader posted:The hysteria about overpopulation is not only wrong, its also like 40 years out of fashion. As already mentioned, global birth rates are falling and are projected to keep falling. One of the main driving forces of declining birth rates is the very evil regressive environmentalists rail against, which is the development of the 3rd world. There is every reason to be concerned about overpopulation. It isn't just an issue of ecological carrying capacity, but economic. 40 years ago there was basically infinite room for employment if you needed a sophisticated system of record keeping - today you can create much more advanced information systems that require far fewer man-hours to update and maintain. What is your solution to mass unemployment besides raging at some hippie strawman?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
blowfish posted:If I get a regular job (not some ~creative~ position where I ~chase my dreams~) I want it to stay the same forever and work until retirement. The only people who have that kind of economic security today are executives - and even then they usually go through a couple companies. The economic / poltical debate in a digital world shouldn't recapitulate the 20th century fight for employee privileges - instead it must lay out a standardized and simple system for contracting labor.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
Mincome must be made politically digestible as a revolutionary disruption of the labor market and HR.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 23:01 |
|
|
TheNakedFantastic posted:That sounds like a problem with capitalism not overpopulation. It is a general problem when you leave everything to random chance and individual choices. I brought this up in the techbro thread but the story about the data entry person reminded me of it. I'm in suburbs between NYC and Philly and there is tons of dead commercial real estate. Lots of economic activities requiring paper pushers in cubicles are never coming back - it seems reasonable for local governments to have a database of square footage and make some effort to provide everyone a bare minimum 'shoebox' to live in.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2016 23:57
|
|