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Mors Rattus posted:
Judge seems to be talking to himself here  But yeah... four years since I've seen it, and I still can't believe a witness and suspect to a violent crime can flip the gently caress out and throw his toupee at the defense and still be considered a legitimate source. I remember the solution so I can't really contribute, but I'll be waiting until I can with bated breath! Good job so far, Mors.
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Mar 13, 2016 00:21
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: I... well... urk!
: The defense has a point.
: Do you have an explanation for this, Mr. Sahwit?
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oscarthewilde posted:With all due respect, this is essentially how most of the criminal justice systems in countries within the civil law, tradition operate, and it really isn't as bad as you might expect. I'm not entirely familiar with the Japanese system, though if I'm not mistaken it's quite Germanistic in style, but most countries operate on a system of safeguards. The prosecutor holds a lot of sway and is invaluable even in the investigatory stage, but through early access to a lawyer (since 2008, after Salduz v. Turkey, a European right, even if some countries are remarkably slow at actually implementing this right) and oversight by judges and magistrates a fair process is guaranteed. As opposed to the Anglo-American common law adversarial tradition, the civil law tradition operates with an inquisitorial purpose. Rather than two equal parties it's the judges role, often aided by the prosecutors and the prosecutor's service to ascertain the "truth" in a given case. All of this, pretty much. Not to downplay the awful poo poo that happens in Japan or any other country, but... if the implication is that there is some perfect legal system somewhere that is unimpeachably fair and there is no stupidity, incompetence, vindictiveness, pettiness and spite on the part of the parties involved, then, buddy, I got some bad news for you.  Humanity by its nature is judgmental, cruel, and intellectually lazy, and the chances of us ever having an equitable society is virtually nil. That's really nobody's fault, and it doesn't mean we shouldn't always try to be better... but let's not let the interpretation of the law by a silly game that plays up the villainy of the opposition and the obstructions placed in the path of the protagonist to heighten the sweetness of victory later bring us to the conclusion that the law is irretrievably broken, okay?
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Mar 31, 2016 19:12
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Sorbocules posted:The way I'm reading the law, it sounds like you can't force a child into the workplaces listed, since all of the other phrasings are things a parent/guardian could do in the old days. I'm kind of assuming that this is a law from the early 1800s or something when indentured servitude was a big thing. "Running away to join the circus" was a cliche for young folks up and disappearing that's, if not quite as old as the 1800s, pretty darn old. It's also a result of good old xenophobia regarding poor people, gypsies, and wandering troupes; it's still "cool" to blame many of those groups when something goes wrong, like a disappearance. This is the first I've heard of any state actually drawing up legislation regarding it , though (though I'm not super surprised it would be Georgia...)
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Apr 2, 2016 15:57
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Four years on, and I think this might be my most favorite exchange in videogames. 
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Apr 9, 2016 19:55
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Polaron posted:The insane bias the courts in this game display makes me irrationally angry. Shu Takumi has a way of writing characters and scenarios that seem just silly or innocuously one note, until they creep under your skin and make you feel strong things. It shouldn't be much of a surprise that a man so good at making lovable "best characters" in moments of humor and triumph would be good at making utterly monstrous shitbags who sow tragedy and despair wherever they go, but...so it is.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:36
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Yeah those Japanifornian shrine Hare Krishnas really dont give their kids much freedom. Fixed to reflect the outfits; at least Amish folk look kinda respectable, if archaic, but what on earth is happening with Maya's clothes?
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May 2, 2016 12:18
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Mors Rattus posted:
Yes, Nick, you are an adventure game protagonist. But hey, whatever gets you through the night. And seeing the employee area reminds me of the Great Sky Controversy of the last thread. Apparently, a surprising number of people thought that it was in a big room with a white ceiling, even though you can make out clouds up there and obvious shadows around the objects that don't really have any reason to be indoors. Like the ladder.
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May 4, 2016 13:33
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: Hmm? This must be Powers's bag.
: Hey, don't open that.
: Let's take it, Nick!
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People have been speaking about how little defense lawyers matter in the AA world, but I think this case- in which a witness tries to have the defense murdered and nobody even mentions it- that it really sinks in just what an uphill battle Nick has chosen. But yeah, I'm with the others: the Samurai Spear is broken, it couldn't be used by anybody.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:59
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Oh boy, we're nearly caught up, and I can start speculating again without guilt! Not that we really know that much yet, but I would like to say that one of my favorite Edgeworth bits so far is him in the detention center just arriving, glaring, and leaving immediately. Also this: Mors Rattus posted:
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Jul 6, 2016 14:35
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: ... Yes you do.
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Japan is certainly such a world... Christmas over there is pretty much just an excuse to party and visit KFC for most folks; no point advertising to the ~1% of people for whom it is a religious holiday.
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Jul 6, 2016 17:41
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Well, that was a whole lot of exposition for a chapter! My thoughts, in no particular order: -So the DL-6 incident raises it's head again, and Edgeworth is involved... enough to establish a motive, I wonder? From my understanding, the victim of this case was the lawyer who got the killer of Papa Edgeworth off, and, yeah, that would be a personal reason to do it, but why wait so long? Especially since he's THE Prosecutor in this setting and has the world bending over backwards for him... why throw all of that away for revenge? -That's also a bit of character establishment for Edgeworth, and certainly explains why he would be so zealous in prosecuting crimes and so disdainful of the defense, and also adds a bit of melancholy when taken with what Larry was saying about how Edgey wanted to be a defense lawyer and defend the innocent when he was a kid. (And is it me, or was Nick uncharacteristically silent for that bit?) - Wow, Lotta didn't waste any time exploiting that photo, did she? We have to be declared the defense soon...although it does beggar what is happening there in the beginning cutscene. I mean, Edgeworth obviously didn't shoot Hammond (Edgeworth looks a bit too surprised, and there was the issue of shooting with the left hand that's already been brought up), but what did they come out there to do? -The heck? You show Grossberg the attorney's badge... and he compliments Maya? All right then. e: drat similar names... resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 13, 2016 |
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Jul 13, 2016 18:23
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Seriously, did anyone else think that Manfred was a vampire the first time they saw him? Actually, when paired with the voice and the dark clothing, my first thought was a Puritan minister rather than vampire. I mean, he definitely has the "Calvinist interpretation of the law" down pat and the force of will and anger to back it up... but I suppose he wouldn't have as much bling if that were the intended allusion. But on the case, except for the pistol thing that was already brought up, I got nothing yet; it does look real bad. drat it, Edgeworth, why did you pick up the drat gun!? 
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Jul 20, 2016 23:46
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Yeah, none of this lines up at all now. It's actually a little frustrating to try and suss out which 'gotcha!' the game wants you to aim at once there's this many revisions in the testimony. Two loud noises is suspicious and unexplained, her camera should have taken at least two pictures because of it, watching the boat doesn't agree with her running to get her binoculars which still doesn't explain why she would say she saw Edgeworth beyond the prosecution coaching her to lie... Hmm. Speculation:The two loud noises put me in mind that the gun was fired three times, has that come up yet? Where was the third shot? And even if there were three the victim died because of a single gunshot, as Darius brought up, so why the other shots? But the gun hasn't come up yet, so here's another one: Lotta is oddly insistent that she was looking at the boat the whole time; it comes up three times in that testimony. I guess that means I'm with Intern- how was Lotta keeping her eye on the boat the whole time whilst rushing to get her binoculars and minding her expensive camera simultaneously? It just doesn't work.
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Jul 28, 2016 13:12
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Air is lava! posted:This case would probably be a bit easier if Miles cared to share his version of the event. I know he's keeping quite for nebulous reasons, but come on dude, you're going to die. He has gotten really weird this case, hasn't he? There's his weird thing with Maya in which he seems to want to tell her something but then not really, and he's being really cagey about the other guy in the boat when he really doesn't need to be; if you just saw the man threaten you and then topple off after a gunshot, dude, then just goddamn say so. So we obviously need new information, but where from? Back to the lake, I guess... And that Canada law doesn't seem so weird when you consider that before and after the turn of the century, that stuff was all the rage: spirit boards, seances, fortune telling and discovery of ectoplasm- there were hundreds of charlatans using funky props and basic psychology to make a buck, and it sounds like someone in charge had had enough.
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Jul 30, 2016 20:45
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theshim posted:Because we haven't met enough crazy people yet Yeah, I don't... really see why you would have to distinguish between all the eccentrics we've met that have been some form of crazy... really, and old man that calls everybody his kids and has a parrot and a noodle shop doesn't seem too out there. Though I suppose all the weirdos do blindside you to the explanations to things that turn out surprisingly logical, such as where Gourdy came from. Weird poo poo has happened while people do crazy things, and they do get mistaken for the "mysterious" and let the rumor mill take over from there. But seriously, all that hulabaloo from Larry's fuckup... Nick ought to bill him for all the mony he spent on Lotta's fancy camera.
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Aug 10, 2016 18:35
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Waffleman_ posted:I have a feeling something's gonna smell in a bit. I have no idea what, though... Larry wasn't there for the time of the murder and is only related to the case by being in the same area, and his contribution of the "lake monster" rumor has already come into play. So what exactly can he do here? I suppose I have to wait and be surprised. And when the heck is the fact the gun was fired three times going to come up, anyway? I thought that was the evidence that was going to disprove the old man's testimony, but it hasn't come up again...
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Aug 17, 2016 18:55
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Stephen9001 posted:My guess is that it means if you have sex with several foreign woman, there is no punishment. Or perhaps sleeping with a foreign woman and than sleeping with a local?... I dunno, it's hard for me to parse too, maybe the translation is bad. (And anyway, the operative bit is it's ok to gently caress a horse, as long as you don't get near the royals or the holy men.) But yeah, this is happening now. Larry's testimony is already better than I ever hoped for
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Aug 23, 2016 14:12
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Well, OK, then; some relationships are coming to light now. Finally the complicated history between Nick and Edgey revealed.Mors Rattus posted:
Let me guess: Class Trip money in the original, yes? I suppose it could have been lunch money, but typically, Japanese students at the age Phoenix is supposed to be don't really bring money to school, they bring, well, lunch, generally made by the parents/guardians. (The few schools who do prepare lunches for the kids do it for free, I think, but there's not many of those; was there ever a nationwide free lunch program over there?) Anyhow, if you're wondering what a big deal is made over somebody's lunch money- usually during the school year in a lot of classes, there's a trip typically given for good grades/behavior that gets planned by the class as a whole which every student puts up money for; in high school you have extravagant things like beaches in Okinawa and skiing in Hokkaido, but for this age is probably a waterpark somewhere. This trip is hyped up all year and the money is generally held not by the teacher, but by the class representative, a student voted by other students that serves on the student council. So if that money turns up missing for whatever reason, or a student is suspected of having stole it- yeah, that's a bad time all around, especially if the teacher elects to be a stingy bastard and not reimburse the money. That's typically not done in America; any class trip money would probably be held in the office somewhere.
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Aug 31, 2016 18:41
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: Lunch money?
: Huh, I see.
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Air is lava! posted:Wait a second. Phoenix decided to start being a lawyer after Edgeworth was already working for so long that the newspapers started talking about him? Is law school in Japanifornia just a 2 week course? The way things are handled legal-wise in Japanifornia, Nick might not have been to school at all- just have another defense lawyer to vouch for you, and you too can have a badge!
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Sep 1, 2016 13:38
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I... Well...  That there is a lot of plot in one update, and Jeeeeesus did things get dark in a hurry. Edgeworth... I haven't really come around on him as some people have promised I would, I still find him needlessly obstructionist and annoying, but... Goddamn, to go through life thinking you'd killed your own father, even by accident!... This is still the game where we were joking about 38 dollar hamburgers and parrots being hit-men, right? I didn't stick my head in somewhere else on the forums, yes?
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Sep 3, 2016 19:23
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Well, this is a pretty pass! The law enforcement really is a joke, isn't it? (And while I share the frustration of having to present a trump card to an obvious fucker, I can forgive it if it leads to the takedown of all takedowns in court.) But what can we do with a bullet with the evidence we've got, even if it is the bullet that Edgeworth "shot"*? I wonder if there's more evidence to DL-6 that we haven't seen? *What I can't easily forgive is Grossberg's assertion that "accidental murder" is still murder, because gently caress that. That is why intent is so important in crimes like these; take away the motive and desire, and what you have left is voluntary manslaughter (crime of passion, where the accused tries to harm but not kill the victim) and involuntary manslaughter (accidental death, which this event clearly is), and which should in a just world be judged differently. but that requires nuance and consideration and a knowledge of people that extends beyond the duality of "upstanding innocent" and "vile monster", so I guess it's right out for this game!
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Sep 7, 2016 18:18
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Dr. Fetus posted:When I first played through this game, I couldn't believe that this was actually happening. I certainly can't believe it myself! But as Shirec pointed out, it isn't like this hasn't happened in the real world...
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Sep 8, 2016 17:57
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Night10194 posted:Von Karma shot him, didn't he? That's certainly what I'm getting from this. He's backpedaling on not remembering things, and I'll bet the "other bullet" that von Karma claims doesn't exist is what Maya filched yesterday... which presumably is what we'll present now. I'm also with Mzbundifund here in admiring who the game has shown Phoenix's character growth. In the prologue, he was nearly fainting about the prospects of bringing down an opponent who might as well have had "I did it" emblazoned on his skull; today, he's about to defend somebody who's just confessed in court, and he's calm while everybody else is running about like headless chickens. It's some really well done, imperceptible growth.
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Sep 14, 2016 16:57
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Wait... that injury couldn't be why he's clutching his arm all the time, could it? The bullet looked like it entered a different place on the arm though... But people do survive having bullets shot into them; President Jackson, that tough old bastard, reportedly had so many bullets in him he rattled when he sat down. (which may just be rumor, but he did love his duels...) But a greater problem is proving all this... If von Karma didn't get operated on, the only way to prove it would be to get him to show us the wound, and I doubt he'll do that. drat, I was so sure the killing evidence would be the bullet we already have, but that hardly could have been the one that was shot into Karma, right? There'd be blood and skin particles and the like.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:36
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Wow. That breakdown... is delicious. Everything was coming up roses for von Karma, and to see the tables turned so utterly in pretty much the only way they could have... that's a really good climax. And if what NikkolasKing hypothesizes is true, and Manfred really didn't plan to do this... well, it doesn't really forgive his petty ruthlessness, but given that after that breakdown, that he just kinda stood up and said "OK take me in" as opposed to just fainting as if dead like the first two murderers- that does speak to a strength of character I wouldn't have ascribed to von Karma myself. So I guess it could be true. But still, gently caress you von Karma and suck it! And it was all with one little bullet. You done good, Maya. 
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Sep 21, 2016 15:23
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Mors Rattus posted:
All right, all right, I give up... Edgeworth is indeed the best. And the best is yet to come, you say? I really liked this case, so yeah, I'm excited!
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Sep 21, 2016 20:03
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: *ahem*
: Whooooooooooooop! ...
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I had a flip phone for an unreasonably long time myself, to be fair. It could do everything I wanted, so I just kept it until it broke, so it isn't unheard of. But yeah, the more we learn of this case, the hinkier it gets. Cowboy-Man here maintains that Goodman was stabbed at 5:15, but according to the autopsy report, the actual time of death could have happened over an hour before due to blood loss, ie: not quick, and Lana allegedly stabbed him and then called her sister just to hang up immediately after? It sounds less like somebody caught in the act and more like somebody trying as hard as possible to tie themselves to the scene, but why? And why rope the sister in by tying her to the scene? And given previous cases, are you sure your looking at that paper the right way, Phoenix? And wow, it looks like poor Gumshoe is pretty well looked down upon by everyone, to the point that incompetency is his calling card. Stay strong, Gumshoe! And at least Will Powers still has work, too.
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Oct 8, 2016 15:55
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Mraagvpeine posted:Can you even buy a flip-phone in America today? Sure. I had mine until earlier this year; some retailers do still have them available, although a lot are disposable.
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Oct 8, 2016 16:53
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Mors Rattus posted:
Oh come on, you call that a decisive photo of anything? You cant even see the body! Or the knife, come to think of it...Yeah, by Starr's own testimony she was holding a knife in her right hand, and she's not doing anything except closing a trunk.
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Oct 12, 2016 14:19
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Mors Rattus posted:So, can you spot the problem? Why, I think I do! The autopsy, right? Starr said in her testimony just now that Lana went at Goodman like freaking Jack the Ripper, but the autopsy said there was only one stab wound... and blood doesn't really spatter much, from a single wound. Plus, I really don't get why nobody's mentioning that you can't see any body in the photograph either, nor a knife- just a bit of a red spot on her coat that might be blood. Also, I'm glad to see the suspicion and scorn heaped upon Edgeworth of late hasn't put him off his real joy and purpose in life: dunking on Pheonix non-stop. "Try not to confuse the defense, witness. They're not very quick on their feet"- it's just so pointlessly mean, it's great.
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Oct 15, 2016 13:38
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Oh, man, Edgeworth, it doesn't look nice when your own trick gets pulled on you...there is some vindictive pleasure in that. As for this shoe... isn't it odd that Lana's blood is on top, while the victims blood is on the sole? If the death occurred as Starr said it did, surely that'd be different, with Goodman's blood on top of the shoe and Lana's blood not there at all?
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Oct 22, 2016 17:38
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Well, he certainly seems... jolly. Has a stirring theme, too... and anyone that reduces Edgeworth to stress state can't be all bad!Mors Rattus posted:
For some reason this exchange nearly made me spit my drink... it's just so absurd
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Oct 29, 2016 17:49
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: (Yeah. But if I cut my finger, I wouldn't be able to point it at people anymore...)
: Come on! Just hurry up and open it!
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I figured the note would come up about now; that's a good time to show off the feature, "Hey, you can look at thing in a different angle, now!" But this guy, though... I can't really get a read on him, and I begin to find his unflappable jocularity kind of off-putting, honestly. It feels like he's trying to lead us somewhere- but where? Speculation: Goodman was totally killed in the evidence room and then moved to the parking lot, wasn't he? They want to make us think there are two bodies, but there's only one.
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Nov 2, 2016 13:15
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whitehelm posted:That wouldn't explain how the two murders both occurred at 5:15. But it would explain why Goodman's time of death is so wonky; he could have been killed over an hour before, so presumably, he could have been killed at the police station, moved to the garage and stabbed at the time the "other murder" occurred. And as for that other murder, my first instinct is to be suspicious it happened at all... or that Gant here would want to talk about it given that it hasn't been announced. What if it wasn't announced because it didn't happen?
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Nov 3, 2016 11:39
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Mors Rattus posted:
Small typo here, but really, with all the typos in this part that I noticed, it doesn't offend... yeesh, was this rushed out or what? Because some of these are kinda...obvious. But yes, that's a couple  s there: both the strangeness of the time of death, and the letter Edgeworth received yesterday. Man, Gant is shellacking Edgeworth, here, and I've always been entertained when that happened before, but somehow it isn't as funny when the chief does it. Maybe because it feels a lot like a set up by Gant... or that Gant seems like a sinister motherfucker himself.
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Nov 5, 2016 17:30
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: Now what was the second rule of evidence law, hmm?
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MysticalMachineGun posted:I weep for the Japaniforian police force that the best they can get is Gumshoe, a guy who thinks he's a wild west sheriff and Meekins. At least the Police Chief seems reasonably competent, even if I find his false jocularity somewhat off-putting.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:45
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:How can anybody not like this guy? I do admit that that bit got me to smile, yes. I cannot hate a man who is willing to take his bit so far.
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Nov 18, 2016 04:22
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I don't get the hate either, but then again, I'm just reading, and I don't hear the feedback noise everyone's talking about. That would be proper annoying I imagine.
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Dec 26, 2016 19:42
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It was the reaction afterward that did me in, when Edgeworth once again says what everyone's thinking. But the video part is pretty good too. As for the video, beyond the wierdness of the Blue Badger being there in the first place... I think EM might have it: the paper was blocking something- either by accident or set up- that caused the l;ocker to be closed. The only other thing I can think of is if the gloves had Goodman's fingerprints on them, but the paper doesn't figure into that.
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Dec 29, 2016 00:16
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Mors Rattus posted:
OK... OK, I think I love this dude now. There was his previous commitment to the bit, and then there's... whatever this is, and it's actually wonderful. This new question seems a bit weird, though... Marshall claims that Meekins cut himself on the knife and that's where the bloods from, but the way the video shows it, Meekins didn't have time to do anything before he was allegedly cut... and it looks like there's blood already there.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:40
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: So, sheriff!
: I only got one word for you, pardner.