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punk rebel ecks posted:I learned this too late with my Bachelor's degree. I only ended up getting a job that lightly reflect on my degree and technically you don't even need a degree for it. YEah, a big part of the problem is that people generally have the vaguest notions of what their long-term career interests or goals are when they're 18 and have even worse notions about what jobs are in demand and what markets are hopelessly saturated.
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Mar 9, 2016 18:22
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In Western Europe in particular, a great many jobs require professional certification which is typically earned by students in the field. For you that means that if you would look at a job in your field (psych) you might likely lack certifying credentials even if your degree was recognized. In Europe, your education as it stands does not put you in good stead to compete on the job market - you're going to lose that contest to nationals every time. Best suggestions would include continuing your studies (MA degrees in Europe are typically much more affordable, while a Ph.D track will often be a salaried position). Other than that, you might have some luck with grunt work or activism, but in both cases it's a financial liability and you might have an experience that could be uncomfortable or downright unpleasant. You could try a runaround approach of trying to find employment with a company that operates internationally, and specifically grooming yourself for international deployment. You could also look into international government jobs, though obviously language skills or a degree specific to that would help.
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Mar 9, 2016 21:38
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ma i married a tuna posted:You could try a runaround approach of trying to find employment with a company that operates internationally, and specifically grooming yourself for international deployment. You could also look into international government jobs, though obviously language skills or a degree specific to that would help. Funny I actually am actively seeking in working in government.
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Mar 9, 2016 22:30
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Qwazes posted:I don't know, I've never had a lab class where I felt like was doing anything useful at all and I'm a junior year electrical engineering student. What did you did in your lab classes? Going from memories of talking with an EE friend, did you learn your way around a breadboard, make logic circuits from the ground up, and gotten an arduino (10 years ago it was a generic minicomputer of some name I forgot) to do some basic controls work by now?
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Mar 10, 2016 04:21
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punk rebel ecks posted:It seems that teaching English is the only thing I can do that won't require too much leg work. Contracts are for one year almost universally. Don't bother looking for less, any place that has give on that has give on it because it's a terrible place to work and they're basically begging for anyone they can get. Anyway enjoy your year or two abroad teaching English but always hold the thought in your mind that you'll be returning to the world. If your current degree is doing nothing for you then look at it as though you were 18 again and make the best decisions you can from that point. Don't let the sunk cost fallacy take any more hide from you, nosce te ipsum, etc. raton fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 06:20
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Scudworth posted:Oh, child He's actually right about that. We're not head and shoulders above the rest of the world or anything but American students who go abroad usually have a laugh about how stupidly easy things are compared to the US. The only usual exceptions are some schools in Germany and the UK which are on par with American tertiary standards / difficulty. There are bad schools in the US too but anyone with more than a 3.5 from a US school is almost assuredly able to hack it academically at any school and almost any grad program in the world. punk rebel ecks posted:I guess you may be correct. But that $200 is steep. I will take it at least once to see where things go from there. I have a lackluster GPA from undergrad (the school I went to is notorious for its lack of grade inflation) but crushed the GRE. Over the last few years I've gone in and talked to professors in a few different fields I was interested in and the GRE score makes a huge difference in their attitude toward me after they see my GPA. Anyway, the GRE is just a test and any test can be gamed with only a little effort on your part so work on it and do well. raton fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 06:26
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What is the average age of the people who do this teach English abroad thing?
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Mar 10, 2016 06:50
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Claverjoe posted:What did you did in your lab classes? Going from memories of talking with an EE friend, did you learn your way around a breadboard, make logic circuits from the ground up, and gotten an arduino (10 years ago it was a generic minicomputer of some name I forgot) to do some basic controls work by now? Pretty much. The thing is, all of those things took very little time to learn, a lot of time to implement, and they would have been easy to learn on the job. Learn things that are hard to learn on the job in college imo.
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Mar 10, 2016 15:24
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Qwazes posted:Pretty much. The thing is, all of those things took very little time to learn, a lot of time to implement, and they would have been easy to learn on the job. Learn things that are hard to learn on the job in college imo. For a lot of the engineering jobs out there, they expect you to come in and be able to do that without prompting, as a minimum test for competency. Taking a lot of time to implement because you are unfamiliar with the process physically would get you losing out at the interview stage. I sure as hell would be critical if an interviewee hesitated on anything I mentioned. What do you think are things that are hard to learn on the job, and better to do in college?
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Mar 10, 2016 16:12
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punk rebel ecks posted:I thought America had amongst the best tertiary education system in the world? The point is you're applying for a job with a BA/BS and most of the other applicants from said country will apply with a MA/MS, so unless the words next to "BA" on your application are "Massachusetts Institute of Technology" or "Harvard" or "Stanford" etc it's not going to be considered.
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Mar 10, 2016 17:45
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Claverjoe posted:For a lot of the engineering jobs out there, they expect you to come in and be able to do that without prompting, as a minimum test for competency. Taking a lot of time to implement because you are unfamiliar with the process physically would get you losing out at the interview stage. I sure as hell would be critical if an interviewee hesitated on anything I mentioned. Complex mathematics and good software design, for example. I don't think anyone's getting very skilled at, say, probability or control theory outside of a classroom setting, especially if they have many significant responsibilities other than "get good at these 4 things." But I'm biased anyways, I'm planning on grad school already and I don't expect interview questions on stuff like embedded systems, because I'm more of an applied math person.
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Mar 10, 2016 18:45
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punk rebel ecks posted:What is the average age of the people who do this teach English abroad thing? This is almost universally the domain of "Oh gently caress I'm out of uni and clueless and just wanna travel or whatever" so, mid to late 20s.
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Mar 10, 2016 20:01
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Scudworth posted:This is almost universally the domain of "Oh gently caress I'm out of uni and clueless and just wanna travel or whatever" so, mid to late 20s. This, but you will also have a mix of people in their 30s and 40s who got stuck doing the ESL thing and are basically career expats. They can be an odd bunch, and often serve as a cautionary tale for why you want to get your poo poo back in gear and get a job in the US.
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Mar 10, 2016 21:37
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Scudworth posted:This is almost universally the domain of "Oh gently caress I'm out of uni and clueless and just wanna travel or whatever" so, mid to late 20s. Oh so essentially me.
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Mar 10, 2016 22:45
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Qwazes posted:Complex mathematics and good software design, for example. I don't think anyone's getting very skilled at, say, probability or control theory outside of a classroom setting, especially if they have many significant responsibilities other than "get good at these 4 things." But I'm biased anyways, I'm planning on grad school already and I don't expect interview questions on stuff like embedded systems, because I'm more of an applied math person. The former I agree is pretty much an academic pursuit, as the 'real world' mathematically complex problems rarely have an analytical solution and we just feed a well framed question to a cluster for numerical crunching. Software design as taught in academia is often derided by the software engineers I know personally as permanently being at least five years out of date, and they emphasize that as a skill only acquired through repeated application of effort, so totally start early in the programming lab work. If you already know that you have no intention of doing the engineering part of your EE degree, then yeah, it won't be useful to *you*but I maintain that the engineers who go into the working world right after undergrad need a blend of skills found in laboratory work and theory work in a classroom. I would like to offer a bit of unsolicited advice on grad school as a guy who went on to get his Phd. Operating under the assumption that you looking to do a Phd., do something else if you can be happy doing anything other than research. Do whatever that is instead, and don't bother with the time spent on getting a Phd., as it often narrows your employability outside of it being a researcher's union card. Although, math heavy degrees do help with data science jobs, which is currently a hot field on the non-research side. The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Mar 11, 2016 |
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Mar 11, 2016 02:45
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OP, why exactly do you want to move to a different country? It seems like there're very few commonalities between the places you have picked and your plans on what to do there. Why do you want to move and get a job rather than going as a traveller? Why a foreign country and not another part of the USA?
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Mar 11, 2016 05:07
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Saeku posted:OP, why exactly do you want to move to a different country? It seems like there're very few commonalities between the places you have picked and your plans on what to do there. Why do you want to move and get a job rather than going as a traveller? Why a foreign country and not another part of the USA? This may seem cliche as gently caress but...I want to go and experience the world. Especially when I am still relatively young and not chained down by marriage or kids.
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Mar 11, 2016 05:30
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Backpacking is a way better way to have that experience than TEFL.
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Mar 11, 2016 05:56
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Saeku posted:Backpacking is a way better way to have that experience than TEFL. "Backpacking"?
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Mar 11, 2016 06:19
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Backpacking: buy a ticket to another continent, bringing only the things you can carry in a backpack, and travel on a tiny budget. Pick up work at hostels or farms if you feel like on the way. When you don't have a job contract, you can see a lot more and move on whenever you get tired of a place. In most places outside North America lodging is much cheaper and it's easier to get around without a car, so you can travel very freely. I recommend this over committing to move to a foreign country. Because if your new workplace sucks, or living abroad isn't everything you thought it'd be, you're stuck there, and you can't predict whether or not you'll like a place you've never been. (In Japan, China, & Korea in particular, a lot of people commit to TEFL, then as soon as the exoticism of the new country wears off, they realize they don't want to live in a culture as a semi-literate outsider, or they don't like teaching, or they like American communication styles better. But then they're on a contract.)
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Mar 11, 2016 06:47
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If you fancy spending a year in Australia you can apply for a working holiday visa which is valid for a year.
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Mar 11, 2016 09:24
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punk rebel ecks posted:What is the average age of the people who do this teach English abroad thing? First two years out of undergrad is like 90% of the population but some countries skew a little older than that and there are plenty of outliers.
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Mar 11, 2016 10:09
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Saeku posted:Backpacking: buy a ticket to another continent, bringing only the things you can carry in a backpack, and travel on a tiny budget. Pick up work at hostels or farms if you feel like on the way. When you don't have a job contract, you can see a lot more and move on whenever you get tired of a place. In most places outside North America lodging is much cheaper and it's easier to get around without a car, so you can travel very freely. I recommend this over committing to move to a foreign country. Because if your new workplace sucks, or living abroad isn't everything you thought it'd be, you're stuck there, and you can't predict whether or not you'll like a place you've never been. At minimum, I mean bare rear end minimum with no surprises in a cheap country, this costs about 1000 a month, but your average backpacker probably spends about 3000. Work at farms and hostels won't even dent that and if you're in the kind of place where 1000 is doable then farm work is going to pay like two bucks a day tops and be unavailable to honkeys.
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Mar 11, 2016 10:14
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Work for a global logistics company with a modicum of analytical or process skills and request foreign assignments.
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Mar 11, 2016 14:49
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Scudworth posted:Get a student visa and continue your education in another country. That's what I did. I came to France in 2011 on a student visa which I just converted into a work visa this year. That said, the only reason I got my work visa is because I work in a fairly low pay field with a critical shortage of workers. I also already spoke French fluently when I got here. This fall I should be able to get a 5 year visa so that's neat.
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Mar 13, 2016 14:29
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Soviet Commubot posted:That's what I did. I came to France in 2011 on a student visa which I just converted into a work visa this year. That said, the only reason I got my work visa is because I work in a fairly low pay field with a critical shortage of workers. I also already spoke French fluently when I got here. This fall I should be able to get a 5 year visa so that's neat. How's France compared to America?
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Mar 13, 2016 14:46
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punk rebel ecks posted:How's France compared to America? It's been pretty good to me for the most part. It's way easier to live here on a tight budget than back home. Public transportation, universal healthcare, consumer protection laws and a relatively high minimum wage all contribute to that. I've never lived in an American city larger than 40k people or been anything like middle class apart from my time in the Army so I have no idea how someone from that kind of background would like it. I never had a problem finding a part time job when I was a student, stuff like fast food, but I imagine it would have been pretty difficult getting a decent job. French society expects people to follow a basic timetable for their lives and a fairly direct career path and if you're outside the norm it can get difficult. I think being foreign has helped with that in that I'm so far outside the norm the normal "rules" don't apply. My CV is pretty "diverse" and I got a couple of jobs simply because the hiring manager was curious about what exactly I was doing here. I can't imagine it going that way very often for a Frenchman. I really like the incredible amount of private associations here that get together to do all kinds of stuff. Whatever hobby you have there's probably an association in town (assuming you're in at least a medium sized city) that does it. My town even has an American football club. A lot of consumer goods are way more expensive so if you're a gadget sort of person it might be rough if you don't have a substantial income. As for my job I'm a teacher in a private elementary school. I get paid less than my counterparts in the US but I don't have to deal with standardized testing and I have solid job security, both of which are pretty important to me.
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Mar 13, 2016 15:20
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Soviet Commubot posted:It's been pretty good to me for the most part. It's way easier to live here on a tight budget than back home. Public transportation, universal healthcare, consumer protection laws and a relatively high minimum wage all contribute to that. I've never lived in an American city larger than 40k people or been anything like middle class apart from my time in the Army so I have no idea how someone from that kind of background would like it. I see. So cost of living wise it is easier in France if you are poor or working class. You aren't sure how it is if you are middle class. How much more expensive are gadgets and what not in France? Like 25% more? 33% more? Also you say that the French like people to follow strict time tablets and not to break the mold. Would you say "American individuality" in that sense may have some truth to it or is that just a French thing?
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Mar 13, 2016 16:07
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http://www.tieonline.com/job_ads_list.cfm Pick counselor from the "subject" menu and see what you get. Some of these places will require post grad qualifications, some will be happy with anything, those places might be dodgy, but once you get your foot in the door experience is very useful for the next job up the line.
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Mar 13, 2016 17:08
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punk rebel ecks posted:I see. So cost of living wise it is easier in France if you are poor or working class. You aren't sure how it is if you are middle class. Pretty much. I see lots of middle class people (a larger percentage of the population here than in the US I should point out) with nice stuff so it must not be too bad. punk rebel ecks posted:How much more expensive are gadgets and what not in France? Like 25% more? 33% more? Substantially more. Here's the exact same Apple watch from the US and French stores.   That's $724, which includes sales tax. punk rebel ecks posted:Also you say that the French like people to follow strict time tablets and not to break the mold. Would you say "American individuality" in that sense may have some truth to it or is that just a French thing? Americans are more willing to take a chance on someone that doesn't fit a traditional mold, which could be for a number of reasons. One of the biggest ones is probably how easy it is to fire people compared to in France but I think the French are more bureaucratic as a culture. They require certifications for drat near everything and if you don't have the certification you're hosed.
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Mar 13, 2016 17:12
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Thanks. Very informative.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:17
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feedmegin posted:Marry a local. After reading this thread rather carefully, this ironic post actually seems like the most reasonable and is quite possibly the path of least resistance 
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Mar 13, 2016 22:14
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Emalde posted:After reading this thread rather carefully, this ironic post actually seems like the most reasonable and is quite possibly the path of least resistance Most advanced economies are nigh impossible to get into without an in demand professional degree, the US is probably among the easiest actually. You aint getting nowhere with a ba/bs in some worthless non-stem major. Strong welfare systems sort of necessitate not letting in poor people, and advanced economies in general have no need for unskilled labor- it isn't the early 1900's anymore. The exact wording varies by country, but the general rule is if the job can be filled by a resident of that country, you can't give it to a foreigner. There's ways around it (making a job description that's highly tailored to the foreigners resume) but in general that means you need to be a CS major, data nerd, doctor, some sort of advanced degree in a stem field, if you want to have a chance in a non-Asian country.
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Mar 14, 2016 01:15
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Is it true that food is more expensive in Europe than in America?
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Mar 14, 2016 06:13
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is it true that food is more expensive in Europe than in America? Buddy I'm in Canada and your food and gas and consumer goods cost nothing in comparison to even here, let alone most of Europe and any other first world country. I take photos of how cheap poo poo is in the US while on vacation. However, this is tied to higher standards of living/taxes and higher minimum wages outside America.
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Mar 14, 2016 09:03
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Note that a difference in entry level wage doesn't mean the difference exists (at least in the same direction) higher up the ladder.
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Mar 14, 2016 09:21
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punk rebel ecks posted:It seems that teaching English is the only thing I can do that won't require too much leg work. Come to Chile on a tourist visa, hustle for private students who pay you under the table, work 20 hours a week and travel / gently caress off the rest of the time. Live the dream.
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Mar 14, 2016 14:09
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is it true that food is more expensive in Europe than in America? Depends on where in Europe, where in America, and the quality of the food in question. Prices vary widely within the US and within Europe.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:59
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is it true that food is more expensive in Europe than in America? As a percentage of income American's have the cheapest food in the entire world. It might not be the healthiest or the best, but we have lots of it.
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Apr 6, 2016 01:08
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Scudworth posted:Buddy I'm in Canada and your food and gas and consumer goods cost nothing in comparison to even here, let alone most of Europe and any other first world country. I take photos of how cheap poo poo is in the US while on vacation.
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Apr 6, 2016 01:56
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