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Speaking as a young architect... hand-drafting is a dying art for sure. No one south of of 40-50's is still hand drafting for production though. In my office only the partner who's got one foot out of the door still hand drafts. He only does that at the very beginning before it's handed to someone else in the office to draft in a CAD program or to work on a render in 3D. We still learn hand drafting in school because it informs how to draft digitally... I'd say 80% of even young Architect's are good hand drafters as well. It's just a factor in your decision. There's plenty of older Architect's out there that have done wonderful stuff and are at the tail end of their career. If he's semi-retired you at least know he won't be distracted by a load of projects. He may even do a lot of the other engineering type stuff himself. I don't mind doing some home stuff like the electrical and plumbing, but some old architect's will do drat near all the drawings (civil, structural, etc...) For fee... until you get a proposal you won't know. Many architect's won't give hourly rates unless you have no clue what you want. You have a decent program and information I'd suspect a lump-sum fee. I would expect 5-10% of construction is a likely range (industry average is 8%-15) which is why I'd say you should shoot for $300K construction cost for stuff you have to cover yourself. xwing fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 14:24
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Pigsfeet on Rye posted:Could you explain this? Is his hourly (?) or per-job rate too high? Or is he just pushing toward a too-expensive house? I mean the design fees, and it's just a feeling based on how he was talking. xwing posted:For fee... until you get a proposal you won't know. Many architect's won't give hourly rates unless you have no clue what you want. You have a decent program and information I'd suspect a lump-sum fee. I would expect 5-10% of construction is a likely range (industry averages) which is why I'd say you should shoot for $300K construction cost for stuff you have to cover yourself. 10% fee - $30k? When I was talking with the builders, I asked one of them if they had any ideas on how much architects might cost. I got guesses in the 5k-20k based on past experience, and he very frankly said that the $20k was absurd and was for a crazy house design. But anyways, like you say, not worrying about it until we get the proposal. Land purchase - slight hiccup. We found an old land transfer from the 70's that might include part of the plot. Investigating that. Even if it does, it shouldn't affect our plans but will likely make the land purchase take longer.
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Mar 10, 2016 14:36
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Gounads posted:10% fee - $30k? When I was talking with the builders, I asked one of them if they had any ideas on how much architects might cost. I got guesses in the 5k-20k based on past experience, and he very frankly said that the $20k was absurd and was for a crazy house design. It all depends, but yes 10% of $300K for $30K. If you don't want fancy finish choices and such it could be lower for sure! You mention built-in furniture and you'll have kitchens that will have millwork. A lower fee might mean that he won't draw them and you'll rely on someone else like a "kitchen designer" that is a glorified sales rep and wants commission money off you. The last 8 years have been rough on Architectural fees but I wouldn't trust builders to know architectural fees. Unless their the type of builder that does really nice spec homes with an architect they simply aren't seeing architectural fees that are "normal". To be frank, we never share our fees in any of the offices I've been in. My last boss didn't even like sharing our fees with us in the office (longer story). Industry average for homes is 8-15%, but I guessed 5-10% because in semi-retirement he probably doesn't care about profit as much is probably the type that just doesn't know life without working in the field. EDIT: To expand, in my office I bill at $100/hr which is industry average. If our fee is $5K I could only spend 50 hours or around 6 days total on your project before I'm not making what I bill at. We might not be unprofitable, but we sure don't want to spend any extra time on it that's for sure. Not trying to scare you with that, but that's part of the field and why a vast majority of homes are "designed" by drafters. xwing fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 14:56
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We're currently going through this same process, albeit a bit ahead of you. We purchased the land in Dec 2014. We went with a home designer (i.e. not an architect) and going back and forth took 2-3 months, had plans in hand around June 2015. Got 3 quotes from builders (took 2-3 months), selected one, and then went into the permit process and getting on everyone's schedules. Basement got dug and poured in December 2015 (we are in the Midwest, so this was to beat the frost), builder started framing in mid to late January. Currently trusses are going up on it. At some points it's felt overwhelming and crazy, and I'm sure it will again. The biggest takeaway is that things cost more than you think they should, and probably will take more time than you think they will. MrEnigma fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 15:39
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Zhentar posted:And/or design in a location where you could retrofit an elevator (and in general, consider accessibility). Not too long after I moved into my house I realized that it is pretty unfriendly to people with mobility issues; if I should develop one I will likely have to move. Yeah, big concern for me when looking to build eventually as well, I have lovely knees now, in another 20-30 years having to go up a flight of stairs to get from the kitchen to the pisser may be a no-go.
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Mar 11, 2016 09:44
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^^^ We built a single story house, problem solved. So yeah as I said, we built a house during 2013-2014, but under different circumstances and it was in Finland, i had a thread about it in ask & tell, not sure if it's around anymore, might've gone into archives. I think today, I would have built the houses heating system around an accumulator tank, right now we use a geothermal heat pump. I can't complain about it, but if we had built it around a central tank like that, we could have connected different heating systems to the tank. And I would have liked to have had a woodburning boiler sometimes. Wood is cheap even if you buy it and I have lots of it just lying around.
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Mar 11, 2016 12:53
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Got a meeting with another architect next week set up. They want to meet us at the plot to see it, which is kind of nice. These guys are a slightly larger firm - a 6 person team. And they seem to be a bit more tech-savvy (gasp a facebook page AND a website!) Other than that, not much happening. So, we're a week into this thread. How's it feel? Too many inconsequential updates? I'm trying to give the feel for the whole process and know a lot of it most people just won't care about.
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Mar 11, 2016 15:18
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This is good, IMO. I've always been curious about this process, and while I'll want to see photos of the site as the house gets built, it's important to cover the bits that aren't so photogenic as well.
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Mar 11, 2016 16:26
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:This is good, IMO. I've always been curious about this process, and while I'll want to see photos of the site as the house gets built, it's important to cover the bits that aren't so photogenic as well.  I'm pretty lame, but I am really curious about the whole process. My knowledge of homebuilding is limited to "I bet it's pretty expensive". Just learning about architect costs has been illuminating.
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Mar 11, 2016 19:20
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Gounads posted:Got a meeting with another architect next week set up. They want to meet us at the plot to see it, which is kind of nice. These guys are a slightly larger firm - a 6 person team. And they seem to be a bit more tech-savvy (gasp a facebook page AND a website!) Other than that, not much happening. Keep it coming. Good luck with your meetings.
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Mar 11, 2016 20:30
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Zhentar posted:And/or design in a location where you could retrofit an elevator (and in general, consider accessibility). Not too long after I moved into my house I realized that it is pretty unfriendly to people with mobility issues; if I should develop one I will likely have to move. I don't know about the US in particular, but I should be surprised if it's very different to here. (AU) An elevator is retardedly expensive to install and has a continual maintenance/inspection cost. In the unlikely circumstance of needing one, it would certainly be more economical to move houses.
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Mar 12, 2016 15:02
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Thanks for all the updates on the architects and little details on the whole process--I am genuinely riveted, please keep them coming! If you can, please post any plans you guys are thinking about as well.
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Mar 12, 2016 15:51
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~Coxy posted:I don't know about the US in particular, but I should be surprised if it's very different to here. (AU) The only numbers I've found have been $15-$25k for the elevator itself, before considering major structural or electrical work, which is going to be really situational. I do wonder what the maintenance costs end up looking like, though.
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Mar 12, 2016 18:04
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~Coxy posted:I don't know about the US in particular, but I should be surprised if it's very different to here. (AU) You can have a 2 floor hydraulic elevator installed for around $20-25k around here. You can reduce that cost if you plan ahead in your build, even if you don't need it installed right now. Most architects will stack a couple of appropriate-sized closets. Maintenance should be under $300 a year, repairs are likely after a few years and can run up to a couple grand depending on what's gone wrong. Most residential elevators around here are pretty much trouble free because they aren't being used as much as a shared commercial elevator. Inspection around here are on initial install only (as opposed to annual on commercial installs). Also don't forget about chair/stair lifts. They are much less expensive and can be installed in nearly any reasonable sized stairwell.
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Mar 12, 2016 18:05
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Like I said, one floor only.
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Mar 12, 2016 19:10
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From what I recall he has pre-approved zoning for a certain footprint and can vary it only up to about 20% before he has to go through the entire process again. That may not be enough to do it all on one floor, if the lot even makes sense for a much larger footprint. I remember watching your build thread though. It turned out really, really nice and I can see why you'd be happy with the all on one floor thing.
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Mar 12, 2016 21:27
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Motronic posted:You can have a 2 floor hydraulic elevator installed for around $20-25k around here. You can reduce that cost if you plan ahead in your build, even if you don't need it installed right now. Most architects will stack a couple of appropriate-sized closets. Haha wow, yeah that is an order of magnitude cheaper. Carry on then OP!
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Mar 13, 2016 01:09
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I'd like to tell you how it is to work with a town planner, but I don't know yet. Apparently I can't even get a call or email back to set up an appointment. Looks like I'll just have to go down one day and sit there until he can see me. Talking with a retired builder, apparently this town is horrible for that.
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Mar 14, 2016 18:21
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First architect's proposal came in the mail today. $14,850 - includes everything except site visits which would be billed hourly (but are usually not needed). Proposal itself consisted of a letter stating what we talked about, the estimate, and what it would include.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:20
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Gounads posted:First architect's proposal came in the mail today. $14,850 - includes everything except site visits which would be billed hourly (but are usually not needed). That was right on the low end of what I said at about 5% of $300K.  You're going to want to have him come out to the site during construction, probably at milestones like framing and flying trusses. My current firm really doesn't do homes, but in my past ones we went out on our own accord to document construction for curiosity and liability concerns.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:15
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Found out special permits last 2 years. The one we have is from 2010. But in 2012 there was a stimulus law passed that granted a 4-year extension to all permits granted from 2008-2012. So I think that means ours lasts 6 years and is still good as long as we break ground by July, or maybe August, or maybe 90 days after that depending on what dates you look at. Laws suck to figure out. Worse-case we have a nice delay going through the planning process. Got a call back from planning office this morning. A receptionist that didn't know anything, but was friendly and took down my questions. Didn't call back. I'm hopeful that I'll soon have all the answers I need. Got another call back from a builder we called a couple weeks back. He'll be available this summer to start a new project and we'll add him to our list since we've seen houses he's done and they amazing. Another smaller outfit.
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Mar 16, 2016 01:27
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Met with second architect today at the land. She is part of a larger group. Conversation felt much more methodical and pragmatic, actually getting into things like drainage and how the house would fit in with the rest of the street. But the biggest news... upon hearing about the secret door, she loved the idea and didn't think it'd be a problem. In fact, they're doing one of those themed escape-room things right now that has a few of them. We'll have a proposal from them next week.
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Mar 17, 2016 16:19
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Gounads posted:But the biggest news... upon hearing about the secret door, she loved the idea and didn't think it'd be a problem. In fact, they're doing one of those themed escape-room things right now that has a few of them. Win. This sounds like you're a whole lot more comfortable with this firm's process. 18 Character Limit fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 16:38
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Talked to town planner. First, he has no idea how we got that special permit. I think his exact words were "I have no idea how you got that plot through, good job sir" and then a laugh. He says there's no way the current planning board would approve it. He tells me if we want to make any changes the board will likely deny them. He also tells me I'm unlikely to get approval again. I was correct in my law reading, the permit is good until 7/27 of this year due to that permit extension act. We have to start by then. Getting a building permit or starting site work would count towards starting, so it's not that bad. So we're stuck with a 35x80 build area and the clock is ticking until the land becomes essentially worthless to us. This pretty much guarantees we have to go with an architect to get what we want since none of the online plans that fit are to our liking. To build, we get our plans, have our builder get a building permit, and start. Don't have to deal with the planning board anymore. Fill... if we go over 300 yards, we have to go to the town engineer. If we go over 500, it's a planning board decision.
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Mar 18, 2016 14:37
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Why would the planning board deny the plot? Just for aesthetic reasons? Or are there legitimate issues you need to sort out with your plot?
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Mar 18, 2016 15:18
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Gounads posted:I was correct in my law reading, the permit is good until 7/27 of this year due to that permit extension act. We have to start by then. Getting a building permit or starting site work would count towards starting, so it's not that bad. It might be worth looking into the possibility of early commencement... which is more or less sending a letter from a contractor that says "We're starting work" prior to being issued a permit. If it gets tight that may save you if the crunch gets tight. With four months it's feasible to get design work done for the whole home, but I'd suggest that you nail down your footprint so that you can get civil engineering design done and possibly a separate permit for that site work if that would count toward your deadline. As a side-note, I HATE planning boards with a passion.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:20
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Two reasons for denying, not enough street frontage (even for a hammerhead lot) and the slope at the end of the street. Apparently they are much more strict about that first requirement now than in 2010. He mentioned we might not get conservation committee approval for the lot these days as well, but that's less of a concern. I'm not too worried about the starting date. I'm sure we can show some meaningful progress by then if we start pushing the process. One of the builders I talked to stated he could get a couple guys over here for a day anytime to make sure we hit the date. Good idea on separate site-work permit. That could help if we're getting close. I'm not certain a letter would count. Apparently the statue is kind of vague and at the discretion of the planning board.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:29
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Gounads posted:I'm not certain a letter would count. Apparently the statue is kind of vague and at the discretion of the planning board. A "Notice of Commencement" is a fairly standard form used by municipalities to officially have your start date of construction recorded, your permit issue date is separate and may not have bearing on when your site plan is still valid. I've seen a Notice of Early Commencement used a lot in commercial projects I've been on where the work is pretty standard and waiting potentially for weeks for the city to review and approve the permit means a tenant isn't paying another month of rent. It may help but not be necessary.
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Mar 18, 2016 15:53
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ok, great to know. Thanks!
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Mar 18, 2016 15:55
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Made a decision I bet most people who build make at some point. We're raising our target budget from $350k to $500k. Talking with people who have built, seeing what was done, we decided our original budget was on the low end for what we're asking for. We're going into the second architect's office for a presentation on Monday. I really hope it's awesome and not outrageously expensive, because the more we evaluated our options, the more we like these guys.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:43
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What the heck, that's a lot of paperwork hassle. Our architect does all the talking to the city on our behalf. The building rate here tends to be $4000-5000 for every 6x6 feet (everything is calculated in tatami mats and hectares  ). Don't let your budget get out of control- a 9x9 room is completely adequate for kids/office, fancier roofs cost more, and tbh insulation is more important than giant windows.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:32
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My sister lived there for a while on one of the teaching programs and had an entire 2LDK all to herself which, well, crazytimes. Yay tatami and futons and buckwheat pillows, it was a fun trip to visit her!
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Mar 24, 2016 03:53
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Definitely good for an adventure! Our forever house is going to have real doors and ceiling fans  Edit: Sorry for the derail. I guess I could start a thread about our house, but our situation applies to so few goons. peanut fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 04:55
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One of the reasons I hope this architect on Monday comes in reasonable, they (help) handle all the town stuff. Plus the builder would be responsible for the building permit, so my bureaucracy-load would be low going forward.peanut posted:The building rate here tends to be $4000-5000 for every 6x6 feet (everything is calculated in tatami mats and hectares So your build-rate is around $111/sqft - I've been seeing around $150 here. That would put a 2700sqft house at $405k. Tack on all the other stuff you need to do (site work, driveway, utilities) and I bet we're at $450k. Add a $50k contingency buffer in case things go wrong, and that's what we're ball-parking for a budget.
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Mar 24, 2016 13:16
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The $150/sqft number you've heard almost certainly includes site work/driveway/utility costs (though your driveway cost will probably be above average). It may even include the lot.
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Mar 24, 2016 17:25
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We also designed from scratch, and our architect let me choose everything from the catalogs (siding, flooring, bath, etc.) And there's a wild variation in prices. A box window was twice the price of a regular horizontal slider- that's $1000 saved. Nice flooring downstairs, cheaper flooring in the bedrooms - another $2000 saved. Toilet tank-top sink instead of separate sink - save $400. We're not experienced with diy house stuff but we'll do the driveway ourselves. Tax is determined by the footprint of the house here, so the same amount of space as a single-story building will be taxed more than a two-story building. Our budget is much less than yours, but if you're just regular people with regular jobs, I think it's better to match the house to your budget, not raise the budget to match the house.
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Mar 24, 2016 22:48
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$150 a square foot, is that right?? It costs almost $1000 sqft to buy where I live right now. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that houses or ownership can be something for anyone who isn't mega-wealthy (or mega-in-debt). You're out in the middle of nowhere somewhere rural right?
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Mar 24, 2016 23:27
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$150/sqft is kind of expensive. In a lot of the country, middle of nowhere somewhere rural can be under $100/sqft.
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Mar 24, 2016 23:54
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Zhentar posted:$150/sqft is kind of expensive. In a lot of the country, middle of nowhere somewhere rural can be under $100/sqft. So you could build a big ol' 2,000 ft house for about 300k ? But how much is the land? Another 300-400k ?
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Mar 24, 2016 23:58
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Baronjutter posted:So you could build a big ol' 2,000 ft house for about 300k ? But how much is the land? Another 300-400k ? More like 20k or possibly less depending on location.
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Mar 25, 2016 00:00
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