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Glazius posted:Huh. They turned off the orb for the endgame. I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense. It makes it very slightly harder to avoid a bunch of big fights, because now you have to actually enter the fight and then run away, rather than just bypass it.
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Jun 4, 2017 15:23
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Obviously it's to keep someone from casting Flight on the Alien Beasts and have them escape.
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Jun 4, 2017 17:03
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All that circumlocuting that Art and the Empress were doing makes me think that my original hypothesis may have been correct. That aside, I'm wondering what Vogel's gonna do for the re-remake of Ruined World. Does anybody know how Crystal Souls differed from the original? Judging by these LPs it was the most linear of the three games, so new options for endings seem unlikely, while this one at least presents some options for what side you ultimately align yourself with, even if you'd have to be a crazy person to pick one of them. Actually, on that note, how ARE the other Spideweb Software games for letting you choose your ending? Geneforge, judging from my experience with the first two games, seems to be pretty good about making all the options that could reasonably exist available to the player, but beyond the LPs of the original trilogy and the reremake of 1, I know nothing about the other ones. (Which, I guess, are Avadon, that weird one about Romans, and the second Exile trilogy?)
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Jun 4, 2017 19:42
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vdate posted:That aside, I'm wondering what Vogel's gonna do for the re-remake of Ruined World. Does anybody know how Crystal Souls differed from the original? Judging by these LPs it was the most linear of the three games, so new options for endings seem unlikely, while this one at least presents some options for what side you ultimately align yourself with, even if you'd have to be a crazy person to pick one of them. I'm not sure what you mean about presenting options for what side you align yourself with. There's only one ending in Exile 3. You can't side with the Vahnatai except by refusing to play the game. At best you can go and murder Erika and the dragons, but since they're not at fault for the plagues that doesn't resolve anything. Picking a fight in Fort Emergence, the Tower of the Magi, or the Portal Fortress just gets you an instant game over, incidentally. Probably the same for Blackcrag Fortress. The remakes and reremakes have been consistent about just being better-written / more-in-depth rehashes of the original games. All the same beats are there, and extra content is restricted to a non-plot-relevant bonus dungeon or two. If you remember my LP of Avernum: Escape from the Pit, Lost Bahssikava and the Freehold of Kyass were remake and reremake content, respectively. So at best we might see a sixth artifact quest or an extra town or something like that. Otherwise, Vogel will invent sidequests to encourage you to visit every dungeon, flesh out the dialog, smooth out the equipment progression, and of course drop in the reremake stat/skill/trait system. There will not be any new endings or other major content. What I'm honestly most curious about is what he's going to do about Merry and the other generic shopkeepers. I can't remember how they were handled in the first remake.
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Jun 4, 2017 20:48
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What I'm honestly most curious about is what he's going to do about Merry and the other generic shopkeepers. I can't remember how they were handled in the first remake. The same as in Exile 3, I think. Merry comments on how they left before their parents finished having kids, and they weren't the most imaginative people. The tailor still has pins in their mouth, and the provisioner and weapon/armorsmiths have the same dialogue.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:26
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vdate posted:All that circumlocuting that Art and the Empress were doing makes me think that my original hypothesis may have been correct. I'd actually argue that Exile 2 isn't actually more linear than Exile 3, which can basically be described by a simple flowchart: Kill Slimes and/or Roaches => Kill Troglo/Giants and/or Golems =-> visit Blackcrag and get permission =-> go to Keep of Tinraya -> (stuff berryjon will show off soon).
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Jun 4, 2017 21:38
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MagusofStars posted:I'd actually argue that Exile 2 isn't actually more linear than Exile 3, which can basically be described by a simple flowchart: Kill Slimes and/or Roaches => Kill Troglo/Giants and/or Golems =-> visit Blackcrag and get permission =-> go to Keep of Tinraya -> (stuff berryjon will show off soon). The difficulty with that argument is that the entirety of the first three chapters is either entirely linear or heavily constrained. The fourth chapter is pretty wide-open though, yes.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:28
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And Geneforge 1 has by far the largest number of possible ending variations of all Spiderweb games, so it's not the best point of comparison.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:29
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:And Geneforge 1 has by far the largest number of possible ending variations of all Spiderweb games, so it's not the best point of comparison. Well alright then! TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm not sure what you mean about presenting options for what side you align yourself with. I misspoke slightly there - what I meant was that the setup represents potential options (i.e. work for Exile, join the empire proper, say 'gently caress it' and work for the Vahnatai) for who to align yourself with, assuming Vogel had any intention of adding that kinda stuff for the reremake. Which he apparently doesn't, so moot point. vdate fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jun 4, 2017 |
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Jun 4, 2017 22:43
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So for the quickfire-trapped towns, is there just one rune that would set them off or a few scattered around? Clearly few enough that the beasts can avoid it on purpose if they have some sort of magic sense or by accident.berryjon posted:These are Quickfire contianers.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:26
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:And Geneforge 1 has by far the largest number of possible ending variations of all Spiderweb games, so it's not the best point of comparison. And I would love to see all of them in LP form, don't you agree?  Now, Exile 1 was massively open. You could, with a little prep work, go from Fort Exile, get enough cash from Goblins (and bandits) to buy a boat, and Get the Orb of Thranli before touching anything else. Also, passed through Tinraya - something I was expecting to see, I didn't. And the last timer still hasn't fired. I may fall back, putz around doing mail runs to train people up and buy skill potions until it happens, then get back to kicking the bad guys in the nether regions.
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Jun 5, 2017 02:26
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berryjon posted:And the last timer still hasn't fired. I may fall back, putz around doing mail runs to train people up and buy skill potions until it happens, then get back to kicking the bad guys in the nether regions. The hintbook (spoilers, obviously) says that it happens on day 180. On the one hand, that feels ludicrously late, but on the other hand, I definitely remember it happening organically in my first playthrough. I guess for an event that's a run-ending game-over if you can't handle it, Vogel wanted to be sure that players had enough time to grind up their parties. I bet that in the reremake it triggers automatically a day or two after you finish with the Golems or make contact with Prazac or something. Hell, Vogel could have done something similar in the original; he moves up the Orb of Thralni theft if you deal with the giant/troglo quest, because you need the Orb (or the Flight spell, which is unavailable to Anama members) to do the golems.
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Jun 5, 2017 02:36
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I thought it triggered on day 150
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Jun 5, 2017 02:39
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My last screenshot is on day 140. I have plenty of time to grind cash and skill potions for training on non-Art characters.
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Jun 5, 2017 02:52
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Update 69 – The Keep of Tinraya, Under Tinraya and the Great Circle  “This place was beautiful.”  “Now it's not.” “That is not made by Slith or humans.” “Well, at least we know we are not alone here.” One of the few times I show my use of Detect Life – there's Alien Beasts waiting just around the corner, plus who knows what else will spawn in. And spawn in they will. “I think the only thing in our favor is that they never expected us to get this far.”  “Well, as long as they come to us in ones and twos, we should be able to handle them.”    “What if we go to them?”  I suppose you could, but I choose not to. “Well, in that case, we are choosing the battles on our terms, which is enough.”  “No one remains.” “Well, that is smaller close up than it looks like from a distance.” “Illusion magic.” “This corner of town is residential. I don't know what you'll find down here.” “Vahnatai architecture.” “Huge Alien Beast as a guard beast?” “You mean was a guard beast, right?” “A powerful barrier. It may take a few tries, but I can get through it.” “This is far too complex for me to remove in any sane time frame.”   “Ugh.” “Let's see what we have here.” “Executive Decision, we go back and make sure we didn't lose anything on the surface first.”  “I don't think the mayor is here.” “Did they die in the attack, or did they manage to flee in time?” “I suspect the former. If this place was attacked from the rear – the mountain side where that edifice is, this place would have been first hit.”  “And bones for the dead.” “Is there anything in that corner?” “Well, there is that lever.” “This is the only way back into that corner.” “Assuming this whole thing isn't a waste of time. It probably just controls the gate there.”  “Hrm, armory.” “Nothing of use though. Just steel equipment.”  “I can pull the Lever!”   “You know, it would be too easy to just walk in the front door.” “Nope. Back door, emergency exit it is.” “Might as well go forward.”  “Let's keep the lights out, there are bound to me more Alien Beasts down here, and I don't want to provoke them.” “Ugh! They're worse than Slith tadpoles!” “Alright, lets be quiet.” “I can smell water through here.” “It's worth checking out.” “It's a boat.” “It's a boat!” “Curious. A means to bypass the Alien Beasts perhaps?” “OR NOT!” Yeah, this is annoying. Getting the boat upwards means going past Alien Beasts who can attack you while you can't retaliate. I got lucky here, was able to land safely and take out the things in my way. “Further....” “Farther....” “Oh, golems too. How predicatble.” “It is simply more confirmation about what we already knew.” “This is as far as we can go. We need to go west from here.” “I SAID WEST!” “He's right. We can't go much further past that bridge without being penned in by rocks. We'll have to get off.” “Here we are.”  “And another secret passage.” “Even I can tell we can walk on these rocks.”  “It's getting quieter. I think we've passed by the worst of them.” “Or not.” “These poor Alien Beasts. We have them right where we want them.” “Dead at our feet.”   “One last bridge. Thank goodness.”  “No, I can totally read this. It's a reminder to clean yourself up before entering the barracks area.” “Seriously?” “Yes.”  “This is a repose area. We'll find meditation crystals nearby and whatnot.”  “Oh. No. Alien. Beasts.” “I think we can turn on the lights now.” “You see, tables, chairs and sleeping cots.”   “There is seating for a lot of Vahnatai here.”  “Nothing to do or see here.” And I totally meant to take this screenshot showing off Sass' ascension to level 50. Ni'aurrl and Delilah are about level 44. “One last section to go through.”  “Perhaps.”  “I wouldn't recommend leaving things undone behind us.” “Agreed.” “Hello? Art-Iktah here!”    “Where are we?”  “Art-Iktah, forgive me. You deserve better than this. But please, rest.” “We're in the prison!” “And there's no way out.” “Not even out the back.” “No, it's an output lens for the teleporter that brought us here.” “I'll start digging!” “Digging!” “Digging!” “Digging?” “I know that voice.” “This portal has been reversed. It is unstable.” “Art should go. She knows these people, and their ways.” “Fine. But the first thing I'm doing is coming back for you.”  “Right. Murder everything time. And you're first!”    “At least it's a short trip back.” “Hah! Can't get to me through the gates!” “{I AM ART-IKTAH, DEFENDER OF THE PEOPLE! OPPOSE ME, AND KNOW YOU WILL GO UNMOUNRED!}” “{How did the honored one escape?}” “{It does not matter. Let us die with honour.}”  “Wrong turn. And the doors are locked.” “You're between me and where the Crystal Souls are, so I'll kill you later.”   “Oh, that looks important.” “Huh. You know, I have no idea what the heck “Thalen” is.” “No, wait. I'm an idiot. It's not a technical term! It's Vahnitai! 'tha' is 'substance', often associated with fluids rather than solids. 'len' is not the verb, but the noun associated with creation or birth. So ... substance of birth. It's the material being used as a medium for the creation of all these forsaken plagues!” “I'm an idiot. The evidence has been in front of me the whole time. I just refused to see it.” “But my follies are my own. I still need to get the others out.” “Alright, if I'm not an idiot, then each of these buttons corresponds to a door in this room. 'Dha' means closed, and 'Kaik' is open.” “G will take us out to the control room. I will open the door to the cells. And ... K ... K seems like a nice door to open. It's the letter of luck in the Vahnatai language.” “Now, time to get everyone.”   “I want to open Cell 2, thank you.”   “Took you long enough.” “You came back!” “Any problems?” “Nothing she couldn't handle.”  “{You too?}” “{For our people.}”  “I knew about the luck thing!” “Alright, let's get prepped for this. Everyone, cast up.” “Ready.” You return to the room, and the projection of... “RENTAR-IHRNO!”  “{You are not enough to stop me.}” “Jekknol-Bok. You know, I'm not surprised about that.” “They've fled. Where to?” “It was ... a quick teleport. To the north. Not too far. We need to leave this place and follow them.”  “And back up, into the monolith.” “No one is here.” “Exit is out the back.” “Let's not open the barriers leading into what are obviously Alien Beast pens.” “Not when there are those in front of us.” “And going down again.”  “Come on. Let's leave this place behind.” “Whoa.” “This isn't natural. Why would they put a city at the base of a volcano?” “Well, I've cast Firewalk. I see a path of some sort out the north side.” Or you can actually use the Orb here. You can't Orb out from this region, it's backtrack manually or go forward. “Well, that's some welcoming committee.” “I don't see any Slimes there.”   “And no giants or troglos either. Though I suppose they would simply kill each other instead.” “That's odd. I hear something.” “Another Stone Circle? Here?” “To the north.”   This is the consequence of praying at the Stone Circles.     “This is it.”  If you see that little gap in the upper-right pillar, that just holds some steel weapons. “This is a trap.” “It is.” “Even I can tell that!” “Well, one way to deal with traps.” “I can hear it still...” “Well, this was dumb of me.” “Yeah. No. Not a chance.”  “Everyone knows what to do.”  And these are the consequences of trying to manipulate Art. “Well, times like this makes me wish that Demonslayer wasn't in Karmas' hands.” “Then I would have to choose between it, the Beastslayer, or the Flaming Sword!” “Learn to dual wield?”  “Use your mouth for a third!” “Right, that's done and out of the way with. Let's go find Rentar-Ihrno.” “This is the way.” If you have prayed to more than three of the Stone Circles, passing through here would teleport you to the Great Circle for a forced battle. “And back underground.”  “This place...” “Yeah, this is going to get ugly.”
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Jun 5, 2017 07:04
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Aww, the demons invited you to their playground with all the toys they gave you; how considerate of them!  Shame they tucker out so quickly.
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Jun 5, 2017 07:51
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Oh gently caress me. I complete the Day 180 event, and the game crashes on me. I may just do the update with what I have, then roll back the clock on my game back to Day 140 and go forward from there.
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Jun 5, 2017 09:00
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What happens if you don't attack the altar at the stone circle?berryjon posted:Oh gently caress me. Ooouch.
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Jun 5, 2017 09:43
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berryjon posted:
Fuzzy memories here, but I want to say that somewhere in the keep (maybe in the quoted section?) is something you can do to "solve" the alien beast plague directly (destroying birthing pens or the like), although it doesn't actually have any real consequences since at this point you're really solving plagues by addressing their source.
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Jun 5, 2017 12:32
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GodFish posted:What happens if you don't attack the altar at the stone circle? However, you CAN actually agree to give up all your magical items and gold to walk away. Though it would basically end your run since you can't get back to any friendly town to restock without backtracking all the way back through Tinraya and Footracer and uh, good luck with that with no equipment.
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Jun 5, 2017 15:46
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Vil posted:Fuzzy memories here, but I want to say that somewhere in the keep (maybe in the quoted section?) is something you can do to "solve" the alien beast plague directly (destroying birthing pens or the like), although it doesn't actually have any real consequences since at this point you're really solving plagues by addressing their source. Yep, those side rooms hold vats or aquariums or something full of larval Alien Beasts that you can destroy. The game notes that you haven't addressed the underlying problem, just given the Vahnatai a hell of a setback. If you try to Sanctify the Great Circle altar, you get the same message as if you destroyed it. I guess technically you could drop all your gear on the floor, then let them free, give them all none of your treasure, and wave goodbye. I think they still take your gold/food, but a) what good is gold now? And b) food can be created with Manna.Incidentally, that fight is a pain in the rear end as a solo character. The Haakai aren't a problem -- you can completely neuter them by throwing up antimagic fields. It's the combination of Mung Demons and Shamblers that really sucks. The Mung Demons have the same drain-SP ability that Eyebeasts do, so each one can, twice per turn, halve your remaining SP. And the Shamblers can hit to web you, which has no cure beyond spending turns cleaning webs. Each web robs you of 1 AP, directly sapping your ability to do literally anything; it's entirely possible to get stunlocked if you get webbed up too badly, as each turn you remove 1 layer of webs and then 8 Shamblers get a chance to try to apply 1 layer each. And of course, the fight starts with you completely surrounded. Fortunately, I did make a tiny lie about webs: the Avatar spell removes them all when cast. So I was repeatedly using the Ring of Endless Magery, throwing up a fresh Avatar just to get the webs off, and then maybe getting a chance to refresh my Antimagic Field before the Mung Demons drained all my SP again.
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Jun 5, 2017 16:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Fortunately, I did make a tiny lie about webs: the Avatar spell removes them all when cast. So I was repeatedly using the Ring of Endless Magery, throwing up a fresh Avatar just to get the webs off, and then maybe getting a chance to refresh my Antimagic Field before the Mung Demons drained all my SP again. You mean you didn't prepare by setting up a Fire/Force Barrier protection, cast Quickfire off to one side, then triggered the fight?
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Jun 5, 2017 17:52
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berryjon posted:You mean you didn't prepare by setting up a Fire/Force Barrier protection, cast Quickfire off to one side, then triggered the fight? That would have required grinding for the 12k needed to afford Quickfire -- I spent all my cash on skill potions. And besides, I cheesed the game enough by playing solo to begin with. It's usually a substantial advantage to only have one character. I'm also moderately surprised that Quickfire even works on the demons. And that none of them were able to break your barriers...though I guess if you set up shop behind one of those pillars, their pathing would have gotten them stuck on the other side.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:00
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I still wonder about all this mechanical engineering, since it seems so different from the Vahnatai architecture and such shown previously. Good to see the game connects that magically melted cave section from the Exile bit. berryjon posted:there are bound to me more Alien Beasts down here
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Jun 5, 2017 20:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Incidentally, that fight is a pain in the rear end as a solo character.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:32
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Not sure if I 100% understood what happened in the throne room there, let me run this past you all. (SPECULATION AHEAD) So I see three possible scenarios to explain what Art and Prazac were talking about with regards to the Boon Prazac wanted to give Art in exchange for her cooperation: 1) The scene is being played straight. Prazac never knew her mother and, knowing that Art never got to be mother to her own daughter, wants to fix that for someone else. Art feels that because she missed out on most of her daughter's growing up she doesn't deserve to be in her life. Art and Prazac are not related. 2) Art is Prazac's mother, and both are aware of this fact but cannot currently acknowledge it. Art turns down Prazacs offer to protect her for reasons that have not been revealed, which confuses and disappoints Prazac. Sad. 3) Art is Prazac's mother, but Prazac is not aware of this. Her motivations remain as in 1, and Art's as in 2. Tragic. I feel like #1 is the least likely of the three, and I'm torn as to which of 2 or 3 follows the narrative most closely. BTW, this is a really goddamn great LP, and I can't wait for the conclusion. Also, was part of that sequence a spoiler that your next LP project is the completely revealed backstory for Art, as told through Avadon, the Black Gate?
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Jun 6, 2017 17:47
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Anyone else finds it a bit hard to take prazac seriously? Every time I read her name I instantly think people are talking about some medicine or something Either that or I think of prince vallium of spaceballs
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Jun 6, 2017 19:55
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Arkanumzilong posted:Anyone else finds it a bit hard to take prazac seriously? I wrote Prozac twice while typing that up. I can only imagine the number of times it's happened to berryjon.
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Jun 6, 2017 20:24
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Ah, this fun little part. You probably already know this berryjon but in case you don't you can break the really obnoxious script by picking them up and dropping them.
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Jun 7, 2017 01:54
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Parts Kit posted:Ah, this fun little part. That's one dungeon from now. berrjon has to get past The Wall first.
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Jun 7, 2017 02:28
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This LP is making me extra excited for the reremake of this game, even though it's going to be quite a while.RickVoid posted:Not sure if I 100% understood what happened in the throne room there, let me run this past you all. I just wanted to say that, after reading the "Imperial" update, my theory is essentially exactly #3 under spoiler tags, above.
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Jun 7, 2017 02:31
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RickVoid posted:Not sure if I 100% understood what happened in the throne room there, let me run this past you all. The best part is that in the not-telling, the story is better. You have seen where Art has come from, and in a way, where she is going. If I told you all plainly what happened, it would lose it's mystery ... Art would lose some of her mythological standing in your eyes as what I write may or may not match what you have in your mind's eye. So, much as I am writing around and through Jeff Vogel's own story, so too can you write through mine. TooMuchAbstraction posted:That's one dungeon from now. berrjon has to get past The Wall first. No, I have to get through this first:  
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Jun 7, 2017 05:36
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berryjon posted:No, I have to get through this first: Fuuuuuuuck.
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Jun 7, 2017 08:48
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Oh, the Crystal Souls wanted revenge, too. I should have figured as much.
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Jun 8, 2017 12:22
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Glazius posted:Oh, the Crystal Souls wanted revenge, too. I should have figured as much. Jekknol-Bok was the one rescued by Art and co from Pyrog's former lair back in E2. It was rendered slightly crazy by the events in the game, though not the worst of the three stolen Bok's.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:26
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berryjon posted:And I would love to see all of them in LP form, don't you agree?  Man, all this Exiling makes me want to replay Avernum...
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Jun 9, 2017 04:47
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Man, all this Exiling makes me want to replay Avernum... TooMuchAbstraction has that well in hand, I think?
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Jun 9, 2017 05:45
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Aw, man! I totally slipped on watching for part 3 of Art's story and now here we are. I got some catching up to do.
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Jun 9, 2017 17:43
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Aw, man! I totally slipped on watching for part 3 of Art's story and now here we are. Buckle Up! And glad to have you back. Next update should be done tomorrow, then I'll see about cheating my way out of the crash spot, or if I have to revert to an older save and rush through everything to get to this point.
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Jun 10, 2017 06:31
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berryjon posted:TooMuchAbstraction has that well in hand, I think? Don't hold your breath for Avernum 2. I might do it someday, but it took me, what, a year and a half to do the first one? And that's several hours of work per update, too. Good writing exercise maybe, but a serious time commitment.
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Jun 10, 2017 06:50
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