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Yeah the big problem is that they put that guy as second-in-command after he was a big man in the previous center-right hilariously corrupt administration, who was well known in Rome for being if not hilariously corrupt as well, at least certainly not on the up-and-up. Another big problem is that they let him and another party strongman, (guy called Romeo who magically found a way to triple his compensation for working in the Roman admin) essentially run amok with the council, decide nominations himself, breaking procedure, and even interfere in other council members' activity, eventually pushing another important council figure, a former judge, to resign and deposit a memorial to the local attorneys about possible illegal activities. And these 2 guys, among other problematic nominations, were consciously chosen, defended by the party leadership AND the prominent pro 5star newspaper director and figurehead Marco Travaglio (who rains blood and thunder on the flimsiest accusations of corruption in Italian politics) and are essentially the only people who have the mayor's ears. So in the end these guys are opposed to corruption as in, other people's corruption. And they're not very smart about covering up their own, it seems.
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Dec 16, 2016 13:43
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Mikl posted:The only thing I'm sad about is that it looks like +Europa might not get a single seat in parliament Their economic programme was based on freezing public expenditure and cutting down on collective bargaining, among the more progressive parts on social rights. E: I forgot, also slashing business income taxes and increasing VAT on all the categories for which it is lower (generally essentials like food, medicine etc) Frankly, I can't feel much sadness over this. It's too bad that everyone else who got a seat is even wackier out of their minds. mortons stork fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Mar 5, 2018 |
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Mar 5, 2018 20:45
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Shibawanko posted:Why didn't anyone vote for potere al popolo though? It was formed 3 months ago, and due to being a hard left party got next to no positive attention from the media. Still, if any of you wants to get a clear picture of the Italian political scenery, read this article https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/sordid-predictable-doomed/
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Mar 5, 2018 21:09
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Wild Horses posted:what could a m5s and lega government even look like, don't they have severely different opions on stuff? They would be just swell because m5s is either fully devoid of ideas of its own or incredibly eager to embrace its right-wing inclinations to the fullest. Half-jokes aside, they do have points of agreement, and they will likely look to strike a deal that cements their dominant position in Italian politics at the expense of all other parties. Some speculate just a brief coalition to draft a new electoral law, likely with strongly majoritarian tendencies, and then dissolving parliament by year's end, meanwhile duking it out on the battlefield of permanent electoral campaign. Berlusconi is a walking corpse and the PD is in disarray. Whether the Italian left is able to regroup around a solid programme and electoral base, or proves as powerfully immune to lesson-learning as other social democratic parties in the rest of the west or America is anyone's guess.
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Mar 23, 2018 23:13
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Tafferling posted:Dude, he went there a couple of days and emails indicate that he mingled with the bookkeeper. Shouldn't he be allowed to capitalize on this long and formative period of his life? It's a hell of a lot worse than that. We still aren't sure what was in the "stamina" injections, but only a minuscule fraction, if any, of that was staminal cells. Vannoni, the quack inventor of this, was a doctor in psychology. That he got public hospitals to perform his "therapies" should tell you a lot, as it should the fact that this guy once arrested and convincted to a suspended penalty attempted to escape to East Europe/South America and continue peddling his poo poo there. And Conte defended the right for families to send their children to that piece of poo poo as opposed to receiving potentially life-prolonging treatment (I say life-prolonging, as the quack "doctor" preyed on genetic illnesses that were likely to result in early child death). That is, like, not even hawkish. It's vulture-ish.
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May 23, 2018 07:12
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If the antisystem coalition fails it will be replaced by an even worse one, given that Italy is experiencing the death throes of liberal democracy. I fully expect goose-stepping to be a new fashion by the end of this legislature's term.
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May 23, 2018 11:08
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Cerebral Bore posted:If you take even a halfway critical look at what liberals have been saying and doing through the ages it's pretty obvious that promoting real equality isn't just not a priority for liberalism but something to be actively opposed. Which is not incidental, as the revolution that brought it into existence was a bourgeois one, ie brought forward by the propertied classes, I agree. Despite the additions of social security programmes to the western democratic state in the second half of this past century, though, one still refers to western states writ large as 'liberal democracies'. And there is no doubt that they are dying, especially in Italy, which is experiencing the deepest crisis of legitimation for the elite in all the west. And given how we have always been at the forefront of political innovation since the time of Berlusconi, the implications for other liberal democracies are troubling.
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May 23, 2018 13:52
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Equality before the law makes perfect sense if you adopt the perspective of the 18th century bourgeois, by which you only qualify as "people" if you pay enough taxes. Liberal liberties are not thought of with dirty plebeians in mind, and each successive expansion of political participation was paid for in blood.
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May 23, 2018 14:05
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Liberal democracy started out with census-based suffrage, and in most of Europe it took millions of plebes dying in WW1 before the powers that be ever considered granting them the right to vote. Just as well, until the plebes started voting, unions got the boot. Stamped on the face. Liberal democracy was designed to hand over power to those the bourgeois believed most worthy, ie themselves. It took a century of bloody struggles to even get the masses in. What are we talking about.
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May 23, 2018 15:00
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Einbauschrank posted:Even Germany, which was pretty much democratically challenged before WW1, didn't have a census-based suffrage on the Reich level. The Reich never had Zensuswahlrecht, only individual member states like Prussia. WW1 changed many monarchies into democracies, though they weren't either that liberal to begin with and eventually failed, being assaulted by the brutal and antiliberal ideologies of Socialism/National Socialism and reactionary movements. So if you ignore how the most powerful state of Germany which eventually unified the country gave the rich propertied men a vote three times as powerful as that of the plebes, it didn't have census based suffrage? Also, liberalism hasn't "included" anyone willingly. All of those conquests have been paid for in the blood of people marching out in the streets for their rights, or fighting in the industrial slaughterhouse-battlefields of WWI. The brutal reaction of fascism was made possible by the Italian liberal establishment feeling threatened by increasing organisation of agricultural cooperatives and unions, and siding with the guys who raided the countryside and beat the poo poo out of union leaders. The nazi party was brought into government by scared liberals initially, in an attempt to "normalise" it and control it. Again, it has generated unparalleled wealth for western countries, but until enough people sacrificed themselves at the wrong end of police rifles, most of them remained poor starving plebs. And even then, the system is fighting tooth and nail to keep wealth out of the hands of most of them, to claw back whatever was given after WWII.
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May 23, 2018 16:42
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MiddleOne posted:Happy GDPR guys! Man the comments on that article. Americans really have a skewed perception of European legislation, don't they? All the better, stringent regulations are a first step. Hopefully we can march further on this path and regulate most of the abuses by the tech sector out of existence.
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May 26, 2018 12:40
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Pluskut Tukker posted:The Deutsche Welle journalist tries to take the bullet for him: I was going to post this. The paraphrase was an excellent synthesis, Oettinger wasn't being misquoted or misrepresented in any way.
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May 29, 2018 18:31
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Those military bases aren't there just for our safety.
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May 31, 2018 16:07
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Kurtofan posted:so whats happening in italy Our majority parties have finished assembling their hideous vozhd of a government, and are set to start wreaking havoc on our institutional, democratic and civil lives. Key highlights are a neofascist anti abortion activist and firm believer in the threat of 'ethnic substitution' being put in charge of the family ministry, notorious immigrant hater and police brutality denier Salvini at the interior ministry, half-illiterate, mostly jobless until today Di Maio at the ministry for work, and the anti-euro professor who was previously the cause of the institutional crisis as recipient of the presidential veto in charge of European affairs. Also, we now have a minister for 'direct democracy' and some other buffoons I can't remember OTOH. Gonna be a fun time until the coalition collapses on the dumbest of poo poo but not before doing irreparable damage.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:48
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Pluskut Tukker posted:They seem to have done so in the past, but more recently blocked an attempt to legalise civil unions if that also meant that gay couples could adopt. To be fair that particular debacle with the gay couple adoptions ties in with the strategy of M5S finding any possible loophole not to vote with the government coalition, even when they in principle would have approved it. Like when they themselves introduced a motion for Italy withdrawing from the military mission in afghanistan and subsequently voted against it themselves after it garnered support of one of the minority parties of the government coalition.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:55
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Pluskut Tukker posted:I don't understand the fairness of subsuming gay rights to some fancy-rear end political strategy. It ain't fair. I should have worded it better. "to be precise" would've been more appropriate. But yes, it was nevertheless part of their political strategy of attempting to sink any proposal from the government and blaming the government for it. It also worked stupendously, to the point they are now the first stand-alone party by electoral result. They are the practical manifestation of how a liberal democracy dies.
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Jun 1, 2018 19:53
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Italy does have gay civil unions since 2016. They had to amend the part about adoptions because the government was essentially grosse koalition and the centerleft party had to coax and blackmail its right wing allies into it. But technically we are in the 21st century. As of yet.
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Jun 2, 2018 05:48
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I'll have you know that, as chief innovators in the field of political garbage, we are at least 10 years ahead of you guys. We are well into the '40s, looking to ignite ww3
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Jun 4, 2018 10:19
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Italian history is what the Deus Ex universe would look like IRL
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Jun 7, 2018 17:42
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My people will continue to report on Conte's progress... within six months. Seriously though, every conspiracy theory you can think of has been in action in Italy. Freemasons wanting to take over the country? Check. Mafia collusion, political assassinations, government takeovers? Arguably check. Secret armed societies attempting revolution? Check. Several times over. If Versalife is ever founded, it will be in Italy.
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Jun 7, 2018 19:10
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double nine posted:Any fun literature on this to check out? I'm setting up my summer reading list anyway. Many of the events I refer to have taken place in the very recent history, and are far from clear even to us. I'm not even sure they may have garnered much attention outside of Italy. There are books in Italian, definitely, in English I am not so sure.
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Jun 8, 2018 07:50
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Fabulous Knight posted:So is Giuseppe Conte a Real Prime Minister with opinions and convictions of his own, or his he a total figurehead for the 5SM and Lega/Salvini? Nobody seems to know much about him since he has primarily been a lawyer, but could he conceivably have opinions that could clash with those of his deputy PMs, and since he is the actual PM, his would win? The second option you said. He was caught on Parliament microphones asking Di Maio permission to say something he wanted.
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Jun 9, 2018 10:30
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namesake posted:Peace in Europe finally achieved as the entire military of every European state freezes to death in the Alps due to poor provisioning. Peace in Europe finally achieved when, after withdrawal from NATO, all European armies convene that issues are best solved through arbitration. Yes, all four soldiers of them, unanimous. Unbelievable.
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Jun 10, 2018 15:09
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Deltasquid posted:I still think building an EU carrier fleet and staffing it with Italian, Greek and Spanish staff and engineers for the construction is the best stimulus we can give right now. 30% unemployment in the Mediterranean countries? That sounds like a few hundreds of thousands of recruits to me. Yes, and when WW3 inevitably hits and most of them are disintegrated into a ball of nuclear fire, or preventive strike'd out of existence by the off hand mobile missile bases, now there's hundreds of thousands less Mediterraneans to deal with to boot! And, a hell of a lot less votes to populists! It's win win!!1!
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Jun 10, 2018 19:43
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PT6A posted:Yeah, there's part of me that thinks from time to time that the GDPR maybe went a little bit too far in some areas, but then you see egregious poo poo like this and I just think: gently caress it, sew it up tighter than a gnat's rear end in a top hat and make sure anyone who wantonly violates it gets absolutely, horribly destroyed. Just take any app, paid or free, that deals with helping you monitor your physical training, how far you run etc, and see how much goddamn information they just send out wantonly. They sell your info, even on your health, to third parties, and you pay them to do so in the worst case. All the goddamn idiot americans crying "my business model  " can get right hosed.
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Jun 11, 2018 14:23
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It's really loving funny how Macron, of all people, is criticising Italy for how it deals with migrants, since his own record is loving heinous, even compared to the garbagemen currently in power here in Italy. We're talking about the country that sent pregnant women back on foot through a mountain pass in winter because god help us what happens if they have a baby in France! And also the country that sent its own police force beyond the borders to raid a volunteer association that helped migrants in Bardonecchia because they wanted to piss test some guy? I don't even remember, it was loving shameful. What I'm saying is, I guess, man Macron is garbage
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Jun 12, 2018 14:15
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Shibawanko posted:Macron stinks and I hate him more than any of the fascists in Hungary or Italy. Macron will singlehandedly bring the fascists to power on the next elections, and for that, I hate him just as much as I hate the fascists.
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Jun 13, 2018 11:52
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Mikl posted:My friends and family didn't believe me when I told them before the election that Lega Nord's political stance is Literally Fascism, but who's laughing now, huh? Time to bring up again that immortal Ennio Flaiano quote. Situation's dire, but not serious.
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Jun 19, 2018 18:00
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To be more precise, we had public financing of political parties in the interest of preserving a measure of pluralism. It was abolished quite recently by the PD, a party that relied on it extensively (maybe they wanted to ensure they would be forever irrelevant after their neoliberal turn?), due to popular clamour raised by the 5 stars movement.
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Jul 5, 2018 06:19
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Toplowtech posted:So children drowning isn't his only source of pleasure? Ever since he read the bit about the Trump policy of putting them in cages, his loins have started tingling like never before.
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Jul 20, 2018 09:31
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Who is pushing the 'the bridge collapsed because its maintenance was deliberately underfunded due to short-sighted greed and corporate welfare' narrative? Nobody, because there's one thing nobody ever even fakes attempts at doing and that's pissing off the private corporate operators someone misteriously decided to hand over our highways to in the '90s. It's the one issue that should be in the spotlight since it's been clear that they just don't do the investments on the infrastructure and capture outrageous profits on yearly toll rate hikes, but that's not even off the agenda, you will never hear anyone talking about re nationalising our highways, not even anyone talking about imagining doing it.
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Aug 15, 2018 10:35
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To be honest, I don't really see the neoliberal policies easing up after Brexit, they have sedimented in the current zeitgeist to the point that they are universally espoused even after repeated proof of failure. Germany for instance still has a hard-on for austerity, and that's not going away anytime soon since the SPD is collapsing on itself.
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Sep 3, 2018 13:53
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Also, quite funnily, he harnessed Berlusconi's media empire to push his anti-migrant rhetoric, which Berlusconi did enthusiastically thinking he'd get to win elections and be majority partner. Berlusconi's networks have since stopped completely airing their lovely anti-immigrant programmes, and giving space to the shithead reactionaries whose entire platform consisted of "cleansing italy of the coloreds". I'd say he's quite sore about being duped like that.
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Sep 12, 2018 21:12
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Also apparently electing a center left coalition means we'll go full foibe? Seems legit lmao
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Oct 21, 2018 12:28
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The BR was 40 years ago, and also for par condicio people should remember the CIA funded extreme right militias that were also running amok during that time, and yet people have just elected a literal neofascist, so welp. But that is beside the point, because none of that has any loving relevance to the electability of the centre-left right now, people don't vote for the PD because it's neolibs trying to present a respectable façade.
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Oct 21, 2018 12:58
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SlowBloke posted:Oh, I wonder who'll be the first to react to a wannabe Hitler being elected in Brazil It's really great how salvini every day manages to find a new way to show how much of a huge irredeemable piece of poo poo he is
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Nov 3, 2018 18:28
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Casapound's motto is literally calling themselves the fascists of the third millennium, I think we're quite beyond nationalism. Also for some reason they are left to do whatever the gently caress they want, as opposed to facing any sort of repression on grounds of fascism actually being illegal and contrary to Italian constitutional principles.
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Nov 3, 2018 20:04
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You don't even need to look at Salvini to know what Italian security thinks of the nice men at the occupied hotel in the centre of Rome. Couple of weeks ago the police went there for a search warrant to look for evidence of tax fraud in the logging books. The fascists said, and I quote, that if the police were to go in, 'it shall be a bloodbath'. So the police, who are usually very congenial to being intimidated by common citizens who are illegally occupying buildings as members of a political organization and conducting political activism from such bases of operations up and left the scene Had that been a leftie occupation, they would've gone in in riot gear, broken a bunch of bones, and blamed it on a piece of confetti that flew too close to one of the agents' peripheral vision. mortons stork fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Nov 3, 2018 |
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Nov 3, 2018 20:51
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SlowBloke posted:PS: we need to manage to get a beer or something, the two of us are actually a sizable part of the italian branch of the thread after all :P I'm pretty surprised by how many of us there are here, I thought this was a pretty anglo-centric board. And Italians notoriously don't really frequent these sorts of places.
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Nov 4, 2018 14:42
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Dawncloack posted:
To be quite honest with you, seeing the sorry state Rome's in and has been for like 5 years now, you should count yourself lucky you don't have to go there anymore, for any reason. I myself am anticipating the time when I manage to graduate from my master's and get the gently caress out before the city kills me in one of its insanely elaborate emergent deathtraps. SlowBloke posted:Mickeyfinn seems to be in my same town(Trieste) which calls for a improv goon meet IMHO Haha, seems like there might even be enough of us politics goons for a meet, going to be fun 
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Nov 5, 2018 10:52
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