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Ground zero. But for me it's mainly just: No more ODing on identity politics please, unless we deliberately want to create another shitswamp. So, I caught some chatter over Yahoo news about an announcement coming today. Lots of interesting stuff, like a European coastguard supposedly being in the making, maybe a rework on a Brusslles-centered immigration application process, that would include all of the EU as opposed to the previous one, that stated you have to apply for asylum in the EU country you arrive in (which Merkel gladly undermined). And other things too, like officially declaring the current Balkans route closed in conjunction or right before that. Thoughts? Links to more in-depth articles than I can see in the short time, before I have to leave? CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Mar 7, 2016 |
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Mar 7, 2016 08:46
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I've never understood as to why working with Erdogan is seen as the 'better, more humane' way of going about this in the public eye, rather than dedicating ourselves on unfucking Greece already. Because Merkel says so? To me, all that aid money sent to Turkey seems like it's likely going to go to some incredibly lovely things and is, essentially, still just a bribe for Turkey to do the EU's dirty work. And under a leader as irrational and moronic as Erdogan, that's likely to get VERY dirty indeed. Personally, I see a much more prospective future in a) Going with Austria's initiative to close the route, since it's already been done and that's how the flow of events has been directed b) Work on redrafting the asylum application process to be inclusive of the entirety of Schengen, since that makes more sense than just deciding to let people travel willy nilly over it in violation of the previous agreement and c) Get as many EU nations as possible majorly involved in unfucking Greece, in both the economic and humanitarian spheres. Greece is, after all is said and done, merely corrupt. One can still fix that with a lot of work and getting personally involved, as opposed to just trusting them on everything. Turkey, however, is turning into a straight up dictatorship and even worse, an irrational one that cannot brook any outside interference whatsoever. To think that 3 billion will be a quick and simple bribe, that will simply resolve most problems for us (not to mention that even if that were the case, Erdogan would probably solve them in ways of massive human rights violations), seems quite naive.
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Mar 7, 2016 18:49
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Regarde Aduck posted:Haha you're right friend! I have decoded your sarcasm as I am VERY intelligent and I agree with your subtext that instead of the refugees CUNTS! being judged innocent as a collective, we should instead judge them NOT INNOCENT as a collective. CHECKMATE SOCIALJUSTIALIERLS get <u<k3d!!!!!! This poo poo was put back under control until you made this post. So as it was said for the person you quoted, you can gently caress right the hell off too.
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Mar 7, 2016 18:50
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Forget the countries like the Visegrad Four, countries like Austria or any along the Balkan route (who have taken in and are seriously discussing taking in some) probably won't go for this either. Hell, the article itself says that the 'willing' nations aren't all that willing to begin with at all. So at most, what I see happening if this bomb goes through and Erdogan gets to make the EU his bitch, is that Germany will take in all of the 'returned' refugees/migrants to Turkey, then the same thing will happen as it does right now: "Alright! We got another million here, which willing nation wants to take these refugees in?" *crickets* But yea, thanks for the article. Pretty detailed, as in Turkey pretty much confirming itself to be a shakedown artist in all this lol.
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Mar 8, 2016 03:07
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Well, IMO the best thing to do would be for the EU, with Germany in particular, to somehow make it clear to Turkey: "Are you loving kidding me?! Forget this, this is so bad that we'd rather give our aid money to Greece instead and give those saps one more chance and a shot at all this, bye!" and show a willingness to walk away. If Erdogan really is that hot for that visa thing, he will relent and acquiesce to less, or alternatively agree to other demands in exchange. Because the truth of it is, he really needs to be reminded that he needs this about as much as the EU needs its relief from this crisis. Not to mention just how much he's reliant on NATO to have his back, what with Russia breathing down his neck lately and him pissing them off with shooting down that jet and all, and how you don't shake down allies for poo poo like this when you actually need them. But if Germany just tries to roll over for this, and if even France having clear objections won't be enough to put the breaks on this, then I gotta say they really are digging their own grave while giving Turkey a free pass. And when in the end this doesn't solve anything, and poo poo pops off again after a year or two of it being 'solved', it'll be another round of: "Why didn't other EU countries just do as we said way back then?! Where is your humanity?!"
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Mar 8, 2016 03:36
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Griffen posted:This might seem a bit tin-foil hat worthy, but considering all I've read about in Turkey and Erdogan's shenanigans, isn't it possible that with the proposed Turkey-EU migrant deal Erdogan can exploit this rather easily? What's to stop him from taking a bunch of Syrians in Turkey, stick them on boats supplied by "people smugglers" (aka AKP thugs), send them to Lesbos, bring them back, and then demand the EU take them in? This guy is pretty foot-loose and fancy free with the truth when it comes to ISIS, the Kurds, bombing his own people, press freedom, etc., so why should we expect him in any way to be honest about how many people he had to "heroically" stop from making the "terrible" crossing to Greece? The fact that Germany would even consider this to be a rational deal at all is mind boggling. The longer this migrant crisis goes on, the more Merkel starts to look more and more reactionary (as in responding to events rather than taking the initiative, not in terms of political leaning) and more desperate for someone to save her bacon. I mean, after the Paris attacks, how is it even politically feasible to suggest lowering security checks between the EU and a known ISIS transit country (Turkey)? You're actually right that Erdogan is completely untrustworthy and this deal is basically giving him license to run roughshod on the EU in the future. But for the short-term, it will give Merkel the political illusion of 'fixing' this thing, by saying: "Hah! Take THAT Austria! Look at me, makin' dealz with Turkey and no more immigrants stuck in Greece nyah!" and not realizing that in 1 or 2 years, when all those refugees get shuttled from Turkey to Germany, the rest of the EU will still be saying: "gently caress off" to Merkel's demands to redistribute them. Then she gets to do another song and dance of: "How can the EU be so cruel while Germans are so self-sacrificing?!" and have her poll numbers remain steady for a little while longer, as she pretends she's doing anything but being bent over and hosed over by Erdogan's circumcised cock. GaussianCopula posted:In about 90 min Slovenia will be the first country to #goBacktoSchengen (the stated goal of the EC) by requiring anyone who wants to enter the country from a non-Schengen country (especially Serbia) to have either a valid Schengen-visa or to be a refugee who wants to apply for asylum in Slovenia. How dare you bismirch that fine razor wire we erected all along our border to Croatia! Don't you know how much wildlife and flooded vegetation it stopped from migrating from down there? 
CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Mar 9, 2016 |
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Mar 9, 2016 15:42
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"The Morning Star is read by the people who think the country ought to be run by another country. And the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is."
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Mar 10, 2016 23:09
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I'd say it wasn't that bad of an idea. Just, as with everything, executed poorly. That seems to be a running theme when it comes to most anything European by now TBH. But the main worry for me is that, for the most part, no one in a position of power seems willing to learn from mistakes.
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Mar 11, 2016 16:14
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GaussianCopula posted:The problem with the EU is that it's on the precipice of becoming an actual union state in contrast to a union of states and because of the lack of a European identity, there is exactly zero chance that it's going to work, but because of inertia, especially through the Euro, the European institutions are not able to stop their march towards an ever closer union and therefore action by them is met by an equal and opposite reaction in the member states. But this doesn't mean the EU is bound to become a zombie, it just means that it won't be an union state anytime soon, which is probably not the worst outcome. I often wonder at how much of a chance the EU has of doing the United States dance in the future, or as in how long would it theoretically take for it to start considering itself as "one nation indivisible" and all. On the one hand, all of its member nations entered into the union quite willingly, and not primarily due to an external threat and a matter of survival to win their independence from the English. So while that is moreso peaceful, ultimately it was only an economic union and never also a political one and statement for an outside force to gently caress off. So if I were to guess that'd delay any kind of merge ala the US since it doesn't help much to convince the general public of a necessity to form that joint identity. Then there's stuff like the migrant crisis demonstrating, how there's our own version of 'the racist south' with groups like the Visegrad Four, although lol if this issue would actually lead to civil war within the EU (either because the general right loses its collective dumbass minds, or because Merkel or others like her literally lose their minds in starting to act as if they're already the boss of all of Europe right now). My own prediction is that the same thing will happen to the EU in the coming decades, as always happens in history whenever significant change has been seen to occur. Something violent. And, as I keep saying, there's two possible outcomes. Either it kills the zombie that the EU is turning into due to inertia OR the people in power remember that any crisis is an opportunity and yeah, serious work is made on said European identity from the aftermath of that violence (assuming we survive it of course). CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 15:43
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computer parts posted:Well, consider it took a Civil War for that to happen in the US. Often do. Still consider it might for the EU, though like I said: the US was born from rebelling against the Brits while the EU was moreso: "Okay, let's huddle together since WW2 was bad, mmmkay?" Not to say that excludes any possibility of a civil war (since people in general and everywhere are ultimately still dumb, panicky animals), but I do wonder how the future will turn out here with that background, which is legit a new thing in the history of our world. Ah well...I guess I get to live through it, even if on its fringes. 
CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 16:04
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Can I vote: "She handled it like poo poo." while also adding: "But that hot poo poo's still better than anything the neo-nazis propose."
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Mar 14, 2016 00:33
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GaussianCopula posted:Oh by the way, the Roman letters in the lower right corner are supposed to read "Kommando Norbert Blüm" Why is it written in Nazi? e: I have been informed that this is what German looks like. Can't say I blame them for trying, anyway, even though the outcome was a given. Just wish people didn't goddamn drown over it. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 21:44
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I'm not anti-German. I love Germany so much that I prefer to see sixteen of them Me seventeen! Put all of AfD in the last one and have it be, like, miniscule compared to the others. We'd see right quick how well they get along with nothing but their own pure-aryan friends. And I can't tell who's being ironic here anymore. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 00:50
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GaussianCopula posted:You get a "lower priority" than those people that did not enter the EU illegally, which basically means yes, no chance for you to get relocated directly from Turkey. So, basically if you're a genuine refugee from places like Syria, and desperate enough to risk entering the EU illegaly, welcome to up-and-coming hellhole Turkey, but if you're one of the calculating migrants from places like Algeria or Morocco and know to just squat in Turkey for awhile, thanks to social media, you'll get express relocation? Wonderful logic there. But I guess it's just numbers and who cares, they're all brown people anyway amirite? *sigh*Welp...gonna be interesting to watch how well Greece does in rounding up all of the ones already on their side. My guess is 'not at all'.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:51
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GaussianCopula posted:No, only Syrians are allowed to apply for resettlement and given that the supply of spots will be much smaller than the demand, expect fairly tight checks on whether people are really from Syria. At least there's that...still, the most desperate ones in need of asylum will get hosed it seems.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:57
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V. Illych L. posted:which, say it with me, is morally indefensible because it means that we effectively murder people through our border policies That dude you called out posted some cold poo poo, but seeing your posts just made me think as if the entire world outside the EU is suffering a zombie apocalypse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQc-iGG5Kk
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Mar 18, 2016 18:39
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GaussianCopula posted:While that is true, the solution can not be to open all borders and let everyone in, because not only would it lead to a very fast collapse of the welfare state but moreover it would give rise to nationalistic movements, as in the end, the demos of most (all?) European nations will decide that they would rather keep their welfare state, even if that means a few humans have to die. You can call it that, if you like. I call it just passing the buck to Turkey, who's now become a glorified despotic bouncer for all of Europe, and potentially gets to shake it down in the future, to save their poll ratings. I'd say more, but I don't feel like being indirectly called a murderer.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:34
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Actually, come to think of it I'd sooner disagree on that point, at least if one considers the Turkey/Balkans direction. I see this deal, in a lot of ways, as functionally evolving into something similar to the role that Gadaffi played in preventing smugglers/illegal immigration to Europe, before the Arab Spring and his demise. So from the eastern direction, at least (unless Turkey decides to go completely nutso, blatantly tries gaming this deal, which would prompt the EU to likely finally tell him to gently caress off), I do think that illegal immigration will go down substantially in that region after this and all those 'unenforcable' areas will suddenly become enforced, thanks (sadly) to how Erdogan does things. Though I suppose we'll all see in several months' time or a year. Problem is, even if this does turn out to be the case, as was said, that means smugglers/illegal immigration will just make a bigass return to the central Mediterranian area, for as long as the war keeps going along those coasts. And soon enough Italy will go back to all the problems it had before all this again. So yeah...again, far too much stick for those in need and too much carrot for assholes like Erdogan who really don't need nor deserve it, until they shape up themselves. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 19:59
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Freezer posted:I think the dishonesty is fading. The current plan of "meh, gently caress 'em" seems to have wide acceptance. A lot of this. Eventually, indifference settles in and fucks most things up rather than any kind of actual malice or hate. Still haven't decided if that's better or worse.
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Mar 19, 2016 03:17
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GaussianCopula posted:Are you telling me that Molembeek, Belgium, is practically under the control of ISIS?. Cripes, no. It's the same thing as the 'no snitching' BS in the US. Anyone that provides info to the police, gets put in the record somewhere somehow and I can understand people being afraid to report, especially if the police in question happen to be particularly lovely about confidential source/witness protection.
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Mar 19, 2016 20:23
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Kurtofan posted:There's "being afraid to report" and "pelting media cars with rocks". It's not a stretch that a place that produced a lot of isis recruits would also have isis sympathizers living there. Chances are, those afraid to report were afraid of the ones who pelted media cars with rocks. Still, sadly  . Heck, his visit of the refugee camps might've been exactly that - an attempt to recruit from the desperate.
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Mar 19, 2016 22:57
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rofl...see, this is why I'm ultimately for the UK staying in the EU. I mean, if they leave they'll only have each other to blame and who knows, that Scottish independence might actually happen then for real (lord help us all).
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Mar 20, 2016 22:48
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Charlie Mopps posted:What a roaring success for austerity. This, SO loving much. Goddamn, what a stupid idea it was when I first heard it proposed way back then and now I guess the refugees were just the straw that broke the camel's back of our pretense.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:50
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The basic question one has to ask is this: did austerity do nothing, or did it make things worse (since the general consensus is that it didn't do much good at all). And yeah, it did make things worse for the sake of politicians pretending that they're doing something about Greece. It'd, honestly, probably be better if they just did nothing and rethought the Eurozone instead, to try and keep this from happening again in the future. As it is, another Greece is more than possible since they didn't do that and instead chanted 'austerity'.
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Mar 22, 2016 01:03
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I thought all the replies ITT were about the latest attack, and thought: "*sigh* Figures...let's see how the thread handled it..." And I come in to find a Finnish hillbilly derailing it into a one-man stand to advocate his gun rights. Just stop posting. Don't reply to this post, just zip it. Or, like others said, take it to the Finnish containment zone, if you really must bitch about this. You can extrapolate it onto the EU in there just fine, I'm sure.
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Mar 22, 2016 16:29
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I think Russia would be willing to concede that, easy access to guns or not, Fins are legitimately the only one of their neighbors that scare them, mainly due to things like this.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:24
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Xoidanor posted:Trafikverket! A decade ago, my dad did an experiment and abided by ALL the traffic limitations at ALL times while driving between two of our cities. The amount of profanity thrown at him was hilarious, and he himself was certain the rules really were not necessary to be this restrictive, unless you got a drivers' license as a literal retard. Truly, the finest form of trolling on the road in some EU countries is to do everything exactly as the rules say. If you have the time for it, ofc. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 18:21
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Sinteres posted:Kind of ironic how anti-racism rightly inspired by a rejection of the horrors of the Holocaust has had the unintended consequence of enabling violent elements of new migrant communities to once more victimize Europe's Jewish population. Personally, I'd say nationality/culture counts for a lot. Or at least, it's a fuckton more progressive to look at it that way rather than still focusing on the color of one's skin. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 20:45
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Regarde Aduck posted:He does. I think the impasse is being caused by those with empathy debating with those who have none. Lines are being crossed that the other party doesn't even acknowledge exist in the first place. To be sure, the impasse is caused by one side being utterly dense and incapable of seeing any solution, other than fascist types. But it's also hilarious how the other side of that spectrum keeps descending to ad hominem at the drop of a hat (like you did with this post), which we all know is a BRILLIANT debate tactic and totally could never contribute to making GBS threads up a thread. That's why Gaussian will always be a loving psychopath fascist pig and you a deranged bleeding-heart maniac. See what I did there at the end? Don't do it and this thread might actually stay afloat on something other than just poo poo. A lofty hope of mine, I know. And Gauss...please, try and put a bit more thought into your posts before you type, huh? I actually like clicking some of your links, but cripes your opinions...
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Apr 1, 2016 08:19
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The Real Foogla posted:...care for a game of chess? I actually suck at chess. But I'm up for Go anytime.
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Apr 1, 2016 08:34
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So much for 'Murica vs Yurp national pride. Also some cool additional thoughts on immigrants.
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Apr 4, 2016 08:35
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I just don't know if Greece can handle those internal issues on its own anymore past its huge corruption problems. And I say this as a citizen of another very corrupt EU state, that pretends not to be and can only get away with it for now because it's vastly moreso insignificant than Greece. Other than apply pressure from the outside, is there any way the EU can actually aid Greece by this point without that aid being utterly embezzled/subverted? Is it possible to avoid this, without restructuring those internal issues that only Greece could (if it is to maintain sovereignty by not allowing the EU to dictate that from the outside)?
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Apr 5, 2016 20:18
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Dawncloack posted:if we don't like the way you vote, we will find a way to subvert it. This sounds like the standard endgame of all democracies, TBH. Not even mentioning the subversion that happens before the voting, to try and steer it in the 'correct' direction.
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Apr 7, 2016 15:11
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Yes! Let's cover poo poo up and lie out our asses yet again for the benefit of our own political image, and say we were doing it to 'not give the racists an excuse' (which they don't need, cause they'll form hooligan gangs at the drop of a hat anyway over the tiniest bullshit). Because THAT totally never blows back on anyone, ever, let alone a government of a democratic nation. 
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Apr 8, 2016 06:48
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^ Here in Slovenia, most of our population isn't nearly educated enough (at least not past high school) to bother with those kinds of distinctions. And I honestly think that's often the case the world over, a few higher margins of education or living aside. But over here, if you're a city-slicker, they look at you sideways and if you're of a different ethnicity/nationality, you're considered a curiosity at first, until the first friction happens due to differences, and then rather than working it out like adults, you're considered to be the devil. Although there was recently an incident, where two black persons (nicely dressed too) came over to give a presentation in a moreso rural area and some dumbass called the cops on them as 'suspicious looking.' So yea...it's pretty bad here if you look different is the bottom line I'd say and they don't care about the minute distinctions. But at least it's mostly still passive/aggressive of a lot of bitching and calling cops on the dumbest poo poo ever, since most of us also don't got the balls for public lynchings or beatings and whatnot. We're far too 'civilized' for that. :P Pochoclo posted:Referendums would only sorta work if voting was mandatory with threat of heavy fines if you don't vote (unless you have a valid, certified medical reason), AND if the public was properly informed of the consequences. When neither happens, it's a loving stupid form of deciding things. Well, there is at least one thing about them that they do - they manage to illustrate which sorts of people are stupid for what reasons. For example, last year a referendum for LGBT marriage rights was held and (predictably) every big city person voted for while every rural person voted against in a 1:2 ratio. So it does serve to illuminate and paint you a much clearer snapshot of your country, at least. Just yeah...no way in hell should decisions be made based on said snapshot. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 07:14
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My Imaginary GF posted:That's an interesting perspective. Could you talk more on the part where you say: Well, what I meant by that is, basically, that the first reaction over here (and I suspect also in Europe in general, as opposed to America - someone's comment of how racism in France differs, but still is very real, than in the US would confirm this anyway) is not quite outright irrational fear/hostility, but instead a patronizing sorts. As in: "Dohoho, look at this weird creature that's come in our neighborhood, let's try and treat it as human." It is a step up at least from the straight up open hostility, since it at least gives a chance for some kind of interaction that isn't violent...but unfortunately, in its function it is still very much the same, just as I said supposedly more 'civilized.' And that function is singular: Try to rob the 'other' of their human dignity. So in France (according to one other poster) black people are just 'naturally more happy, the little scamps don't need much'. And over in this country Croats, Bosnians, Serbs coming up to work in our factories for the labor our own people don't feel like doing? Aw, they can manage just fine, nevermind they keep getting laid off by our criminal in all but name industrialists, to the point where in one story one sad dude couldn't even return to his wrecked family in BiH, since the boss utterly exploited his foreign worker status. Of course...this does not last. Sooner or later, every person grows angry and frustrated when their human dignity gets this maligned (sometimes also very openly) and violence happens. And that is the moment when this place (and Europe in general) feels entitled to say: "gently caress it, we gave you a chance and now you're behaving like animals! Purge!" What I've observed happen with the German invitation to the refugees fits this perfectly BTW. Everything about how it was presented, planned and structured doesn't read to me as humanitarian at all, but only patronizing while masquerading itself as 'progressive'. And then, when said refugees report of being cooped up and locked in all those camps in Germany, going literally insane as they have nothing to do (except ofc being recruited by the many criminal organizations that are more than happy to capitalize on this error) and when they lash out? Yea...suddenly it's 'proof' of how they were rotten all along.  As hypocritical as this is, though, I have to say it's still preferable to everything I've observed in the US. You guys are still struggling with poo poo in such a retarded way, like 'black reparations' and every loving thing being politicized, asking all the wrong questions and applying yourself in the most impractical of ways that only serve to pump your egoes, while actual results on the other hand are hard to come by when people like Trump are even allowed as a candidate. There are only two reasons for why it holds itself together: Your founding fathers nailed nationalism in your mostly horrible public schools, so it tends to stick more across all ethnicities, and you have the base manpower from your vast array of collected ethnicities (the Irish very much so were the Muslims of late 1800s, for example) that either have integrated already after 100 years and help to hold it together now (by comparison, Sweden's blind progressive open-door policy has lasted only about 40 years so far and they very much were at the tip of our immigration spear, so to speak) or, if they haven't, are a bit busier beating on each other, rather than ganging up on the government. I just laugh to myself as I remember George Carlin's quote to be very true: "Being born is a ticket to the freakshow. And in America you get a front row seat." My Imaginary GF posted:What I'm wondering is, why do you think your culture developed this reaction? How has it worked out in your culture's past? I can only speak for my little 2 million country specifically so...you have to understand that, in our most basest of concepts, our nation is one of peasants pretending to be important. My own favorite analogy is a rooster climbing up on top of a dung heap to crow each morning, thinking he's the king of the world. So we have a great deal of self-importance, that makes us think far more highly of ourselves than we should, coupled with a mostly uneducated and rural mindset of 'traditional values', most of which we also stole from the Bavarians who colonized us for 1000 years lol. The one thing we did not steal, though, is our own unique language, which is pretty frikking exotic and tricky to learn, so naturally few foreigners came and stayed around here. Why would they? Hard language to learn and, very accurately said by one Scandinavian diplomat recently: "One of the most beautiful lands I've ever seen...and some of the worst, most passive/aggressive people ever." Funnily enough, our government is actually still mostly onboard than not with the whole refugee resettlement idiocy being proposed so, unless said refugees ofc decide there ain't poo poo for them here after being forcibly resettled, it's bound to become comedy central in the next year or two...or however long it takes for the EU to unfuck itself on this mad scheme, if at all. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 08:36
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You know, I'm probably gonna regret this but here goes anyway...GaussianCopula posted:First of all, refugees are not locked into camps, but accommodated in larger groups because there simply was no infrastructure to do anything else. Right. And WHY wasn't there any infrastructure set up in advance to anticipate this? You really think the fault for that lies in the masses, that naively responded to an open invitation by Merkel? GaussianCopula posted:Those shelters are not locked and the refugees are free to spend their time outside of them, if they wish so. They are not allowed to take up work, because they entered Germany illegally and applied for asylum, which because there were a lot of applications and German bureaucracy is rather thorough, to the benefit of the applicants in this case, takes some time. Additionally the believe that they could just find a job and earn money if the bureaucracy would just let them is naive beyond believe, given that most of them have no formal qualification and the best language skills you can hope for are some words of broken English. Again, why was this not anticipated, as it most certainly could have been when that invitation was issued? Why were they happily waived through, as if they were legal, and then told only upon arrival that they are not? Again, is this their fault or our own for misleading them and pretending to be humanitarian, when the truth is far more likely that it was just about cheap labor/political points, as usual. As for education, cripes, if Fawlty Towers figured this out, I can't believe people in power nowadays couldn't have. John Cleese put it best: "The joke with Manuel isn't that he's some sort of idiot, that wasn't my point at all. It's the fact that employers are keen on cheap labor, but utterly unwilling to invest in time or effort to educate them so they could actually be good workers." If Germany had spent half a year or one full year beforehand preparing in advance while factoring this, setting up programmes, recruiting people to educate the basics to them ect., then maybe we'd be able to hear more stories like this.
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Apr 10, 2016 10:07
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So it's just a big loving coincidence, that right after Merkel did her public 180 about face for political points (do note I mention that on top of cheap labor), and word of it got around their social media, that the first 10,000-a-day waves started showing up and being waived through my country last September, huh? It just all happened randomly, spontaneously and all at once, donchaknow? Also, speaking as someone who knows a fair few of them (and live in a country that was once deemed a part of it), lol if you think 'south european' countries are better educated in any way or were considered as 'more desirable.' With the whole Balkan wars, and when they too started looking for work (legal or otherwise) exactly in Germany, they were looked at as every bit the savages that people like yourself now look upon these latest arrivals, and that was just two decades ago lol.
CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 10:32
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For a culture to even be considered as 'leading', it'd have to be strong enough to present itself as such. As in have its own distinct art, language if possible, rituals, ceremonies, ethics and so on and hopefully define them as clearly as possible so as to deliver a consistent message. And then actually deliver said message regularly. Basically, it has to be something no culture is right now in the western world, nor that it aspires towards in any way either considering it's undergoing a dillution what with stuff like the internet and so on. So it's not too surprising to see other cultures come in and not integrate at all or even actively resist integrating on such basic issues like how women should dress - because they don't find anything in our 'leading' culture (whichever the gently caress it's supposed to be anyway - we can't even agree on that) that is consistent or worthy of respect. Still, I don't see another realistic option for longer-term peace other than to work on that. Because the alternative of multi means ghettos and segregated societies and misery, both for them and for those that won't be a part of it. The US very much so demonstrated that, with its poorer slum regions, and most of those didn't even have a joint religious background.
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Apr 11, 2016 16:49
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Friendly Humour posted:Uhhuh, and why is that? Culture is an organic construct, it doesn't submit itself to definitions of what it is, only what it is not. In theory perhaps. But definitely not in practice. A lot can be said about what a certain culture is about simply by observing its everyday life. It's just that it keeps evolving with time.
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Apr 11, 2016 16:58
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