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McDowell posted:The EU is failing because Europe never federalized properly after WW2 It's failing because it's a horrible idea conjured up by pseudo-intellectuals.
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Mar 13, 2016 06:32
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Immortan posted:It's failing because it's a horrible idea conjured up by pseudo-intellectuals. A thousand year Reich was a much better idea
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Mar 13, 2016 06:33
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McDowell posted:A thousand year Reich was a much better idea Planned economies always are.
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Mar 13, 2016 07:01
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The Saurus posted:
Despite being a Sanders Supporter, I actually think a multi-payer system with a strong public option is the way to go. Single-payer is really cool and all, but the strongest healthcare systems in the world aren't from Canada and the UK, they're Scandinavian and Swiss. Also, I think we need to encourage less people to go to college, and that free tuition is just going to make it even harder for a decent percentage of the population to get any real meaning out of their life. I went to college for all of a semester before I dropped out, and I know plenty of people like me; if you basically make it a requirement for any non-service jobs to have some sort of degree, you're giving a big "gently caress You!" to anyone who doesn't like school. Instead we should focus even more strongly on K-12, and encourage more skills-training during high school for kids who don't want to go to college/wouldn't benefit from it. Also, Liberal Arts is a bunch of horseshit and if there's something that you need to be a "well-rounded individual" you should learn it in high school. If you don't change the system other than giving kids free tuition, the only reason not to go to college is because you don't want to/wouldn't get anything out of it, and even if those reasons are valid, you're basically handing them a green apron and saying "hope you like making lattes!"
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Mar 13, 2016 12:05
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No Irony Allowed
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- The route Socialism took since the early 20th century is one of the biggest disasters in human history. And due to automation around the corner I fear that the window for the opportunity of what Socialism could have been may soon close. - I don't see how outsourcing is bad or even has to be relevant for "good paying" jobs leaving the country. Factory jobs are only worth so much because unions pushed them to be recognized as such. - American Liberalism is what killed the Left in the United States and should be avoided in the future. punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 12:29 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 12:24
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Base Camp Blanket posted:A population crash is very probably inevitable. We will not create sustainable infrastructure on even nearly the scale necessary to support 7 billion people. We will keep using fossil fuels until we run out. At that point billions will die from rapidly rising food prices, not to mention the political instability that will result. Civilization will probably endure. The only optimism that I have in this regard is that I believe after the die off, we will begin again more intelligently. Antinatalism is the only thing that can save us. But there''s no inherent value in the existence of human civilization as it exists today, and people have to die sometime. Living in the modern era in the first world still makes you one of the luckiest humans ever. The only reason death seems like something bad rather than a sweet release is because our lives are so good now.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:27
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Everything's probably going to be fine
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Mar 13, 2016 16:28
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Identity politics is inherently reactionary and is allowed to exist and spread by the ruling class for this very reason.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:32
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I feel one of bernie's greatest failings as someone who wishes to align with the socialist wing (I still genuinely refuse to pretend democratic socialism and socialism are the same thing) is his complete focus on things like trade deals and outsourcing, which while harmful, are secondary to things like union support being needed. His anti-CU rhetoric and complete lack of vocally supporting a national program to protect unions is basically going to be the death blow to unions in America as he will remove their one 'benefit' they had left by being counted in the groups who got their limits removed but while the others who got the same can survive through assorted fucky dealings with a cap the unions lack such options. Completely unintentionally I genuinely feel Bernie Sanders, as the most public face of leftist economics who still is lacking union support as a major campaign plank, will destroy unions in America through apathy and that's his biggest flaw to me that genuinely at times has made me question support of him. Also I think he's missing the forest for the trees with campaign finance reform focusing on CU which, while not good, was hardly the most dangerous thing ever done to the finance system, but rather the issue is the complex web of things like PACs which you actually genuinely can't 'destroy' or you would actually be limiting speech in the political process and that should never be accepted.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:34
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punk rebel ecks posted:- The route Socialism took since the early 20th century is one of the biggest disasters in human history. And due to automation around the corner I fear that the window for the opportunity of what Socialism could have been may soon close. lol The Saurus posted:Identity politics is inherently reactionary and is allowed to exist and spread by the ruling class for this very reason. this is true of non-systemic, non-intersectional articulations, yes. see the ford foundation and other orgs funding research for pure "gender feminism"
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Mar 13, 2016 17:21
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why would automation obsolete socialism anyway. are we talking about jettsons technoutopia or bladerunner here. cause i'm willing to argue that a cyberpunk world would be great for socialism/
goatse.cx has issued a correction as of 17:49 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 17:46
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Social democracy is the best.
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Mar 13, 2016 17:48
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The Saurus posted:Identity politics is inherently reactionary and is allowed to exist and spread by the ruling class for this very reason. no poo poo. Both sides to it to a retarded degree and its basicaly used a band aid.
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Mar 13, 2016 17:49
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goatse.cx posted:why would automation obsolete socialism anyway. are we talking about jettsons technoutopia or bladerunner here. cause i'm willing to argue that a cyberpunk world would be great for socialism/ It wouldn't make socialism obsolete, but more so there will be a bit less democratic planning and more just relying on what the calculating A.I. will do.
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Mar 13, 2016 17:52
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Base Camp Blanket posted:LF was the best forum in the history of the internet. I miss it every time I read a D&D post. I beleive the main thing seperating a strong country from a poo poo country is the strength of its public institutions, all else aside. I think socialism has been proven to work as it is used for everything important to the ruling class. I think free-market economics have been soundly proven to be mad-brained bullshit that makes everything worse. I think this is because socialism strengthens institutions and free-marketeering obliterates, fragments and sells institutions. I think very few things are active conspiracy and I think most of the ruling class just bought into their own propaganda a generation or two ago. I think that the UK was stronger after the post-war consensus brought in socialism for the masses and rather than being how things have always been the current situation is a strange and abberant radicalism which is successfully dismantling all of the progress that has been made over the last century and if you showed it to a right winger from 60 years ago he'd think you were insane.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:03
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Humanity is a disease and nothing we do matters, the only purpose of life is to stay relatively comfortable until our inevitable deaths~
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Mar 13, 2016 19:14
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goatse.cx posted:why would automation obsolete socialism anyway. are we talking about jettsons technoutopia or bladerunner here. cause i'm willing to argue that a cyberpunk world would be great for socialism/ Because people have the idea in their head that for any sort of government benefit, you should have to work for it to "earn" it. This is going to get harder to do as we have less jobs in the US, and there's going to come a time where the American public either shakes that idea away out of their heads, or we set up some giant (metaphorical) piņata industry to create jobs that allow people to work, not to any real benefit other than "earning" their government assistance. This will ideally make everyone feel better about the poor getting money for food and shelter, even though it will be highly inefficient and actually cost us money. I also believe, but don't say to anyone I actually know because it sounds (and is) really condescending, but there would be very little-to-no actual difference between a Hillary and Bernie presidency, especially during the first four years, and anyone who think that there is doesn't really "get" how the president works. (the one exception to this is foreign policy, for better or worse). edit: In a more out there belief: I think the only thing that will get the US to rethink how our government spends money on a massive scale is either a WW3 or another Civil War/large-scale unrest. The Great Depression and WWII gave us the New Deal and all of the good stuff that came about in the 40s/50s, and we've already had our Great Depression and learned nothing. Yoshifan823 has issued a correction as of 19:20 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 19:17
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Boosted_C5 posted:I don't think we should deport illegals who didn't commit crimes other than illegally entering the U.S. or overstaying their visa. thats a pretty sensible position coming from you. although i honestly think most of them, if given the right to vote, would vote conservative if the GOP stopped antagonizing them. people who illegaly immigrate tend to have entrepreneurial spirit and the sort of "pull yourself up from your bootstraps" attitude, that leans conservative. oh and highly religious and socially conservative too
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Mar 13, 2016 21:14
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The bad guys won the cold war and George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump all in succession prove it. For reference the less bad guys tried to erase the very concept of social privacy and difference before walking it back step by step while refusing to admit that maybe a tenet or two of their core premise was significantly flawed. Past a certain level of social organization there are no good guys.
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Mar 13, 2016 21:55
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The only certainty about this election is that no matter who wins Lowtax is going to shut down the forums for a while due to all the Secret Service inquiries
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Mar 13, 2016 22:43
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Yoshifan823 posted:Because people have the idea in their head that for any sort of government benefit, you should have to work for it to "earn" it. This is going to get harder to do as we have less jobs in the US, and there's going to come a time where the American public either shakes that idea away out of their heads, or we set up some giant (metaphorical) piñata industry to create jobs that allow people to work, not to any real benefit other than "earning" their government assistance. This will ideally make everyone feel better about the poor getting money for food and shelter, even though it will be highly inefficient and actually cost us money. This already happened, it's called the service industry.
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Mar 13, 2016 22:52
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Most middle-class whites who describe themselves as liberals actually just do so out of social distaste for conservatives. In reality they despise taxes, minorities, and the poor, in that order. I believe we are witnessing, in real time, American liberalism abandoning a vestigial pretense of concern for economic justice. It is becoming a vehicle for affluent people to excuse their utter apathy towards the poor. To put it more succinctly: https://twitter.com/LarryWebsite/status/707957515645018112
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Mar 13, 2016 22:58
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Trump's candidacy or movement or whatever is a sign of a healthy American democracy.
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Mar 14, 2016 00:34
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Tercio posted:Most middle-class whites who describe themselves as liberals actually just do so out of social distaste for conservatives. In reality they despise taxes, minorities, and the poor, in that order. I believe we are witnessing, in real time, American liberalism abandoning a vestigial pretense of concern for economic justice. It is becoming a vehicle for affluent people to excuse their utter apathy towards the poor. To add to this. I am of the opinion that the death of New Deal Leftism didn't occur because the Left bit off more than society could chew during the '60s and '70s. But more so that due to the country developing so much you had a large influx of first generation middle class citizens who didn't identify as working class or relate to their struggle or concerns. In short, many of the workers/proletariat became petty bourgeois. America's swift right wing shift since the 1980s was inevitable.
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Mar 14, 2016 00:56
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I don't like far left protesters and people with a "revolutionary" mind set. (IE College Communists that showed up to stop the Bernie rally). They act like animals and act make me greatly ashamed to share in some of their points of view. (to be fair? Could be plants like the FBI used to do with MLK back in the day). I respect people's ability to desecrate the flag, but it irks me a bit. I believe free higher public education is a basic human right in this country. I think that we should have single payer healthcare and increase the minimum wage to $15 (also have it adjusted for inflation every year). We need to cut military spending...by a lot. The war on drugs is idiotic and needs to be reformed to be for rehabilitation and education. Not jail sentences. We need to fund our space program better and grant tax breaks to private companies willing to start their own programs. I want to be talking missions to the moon and mars ASAP. Something needs to be done with the militarization of police forces in this country. Something also needs to be done to ensure cops quit violating civil liberties among other things. A zero tolerance policy perhaps? I think Donald Trump is actually the most sane candidate the GOP has right now. Save for his views on illegal immigrants and people of the muslim faith? I actually find myself agreeing with a couple of things he says. (His stance on social security for example? Was actually the most sane) FuzzySkinner has issued a correction as of 01:39 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 01:35
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Outside of his racism Donald Trump really isn't that bad. I'd go as far as to say that he is the most sensible GOP presidential runner since Bob Dole. I mean at least his healthcare foreign policy, and tax plans have some things in them that are arguably good.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:01
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rear end cobra posted:Social democracy is the best. Yup. Guns too.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:06
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KaptainKrunk posted:Trump's candidacy or movement or whatever is a sign of a healthy American democracy. It's a sign of an extremely unhealthy economy
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Mar 14, 2016 03:20
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punk rebel ecks posted:Outside of his racism Donald Trump really isn't that bad. I'd go as far as to say that he is the most sensible GOP presidential runner since Bob Dole. I mean at least his healthcare foreign policy, and tax plans have some things in them that are arguably good. It's what frustrates me because there's clearly worse GOP candidates out there. Ted Cruz, and Rubio have said drat near identical things to Trump. Yet, don't get called out because they're able to tone police their own policies well enough that some progressives see them as the lesser evil. ("Oh they don't want "Amnesty"? "They want to secure the border?" "Well that's a hell of a lot better than calling them rapists and thugs!" (Even though they're LITERALLY saying the same thing) ) Also...and dear god I can't believe I'm loving saying this....he's better on women's health. He's a sexist asshat, sure. But again, he's not looking to shut down planned parenthood for example.
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Mar 14, 2016 03:32
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I was totally down for "Donald Trump is the best option the GOP has going for them" before this weekend's violence that he's been egging on, but if you look at it strictly by issues, yeah, he's probably to the left of pretty much any Republican who has run for president since Nixon. I also totally want him to win the primary, because I think he's gonna get shut down hard in the general, which could really strengthen the Dem's chances to take back the Senate.
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Mar 14, 2016 08:56
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Wolfsheim posted:Humanity is a disease and nothing we do matters, the only purpose of life is to stay relatively comfortable until our inevitable deaths~  this guy gets it
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Mar 14, 2016 09:01
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Yoshifan823 posted:I was totally down for "Donald Trump is the best option the GOP has going for them" before this weekend's violence that he's been egging on, but if you look at it strictly by issues, yeah, he's probably to the left of pretty much any Republican who has run for president since Nixon. When you say "look at the issues" what are you talking about? The only policies he talks about are the impossible wall, torture, and "taking ISISs oil." Everything else he says is standard GOP stuff. Guns, tax cuts, repeal obamacare etc.
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Mar 14, 2016 09:48
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trump talks a leftist game sometimes but he has increasingly embraced gop conservative dogma. the only issue where he really differs is trade but calling protectionism a leftist position is pretty loving dumb
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Mar 14, 2016 10:05
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Winning foreign policy = give Trump nuclear codes = everyone will be nice to us.
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Mar 14, 2016 10:13
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I think legal immigration into the US should be significantly easier than it is.
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Mar 14, 2016 10:15
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Hillary's first act as president would be to divorce Bill. that was the one good reason I came up with to vote for her over bernie
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Mar 14, 2016 11:13
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babypolis posted:trump talks a leftist game sometimes but he has increasingly embraced gop conservative dogma. the only issue where he really differs is trade but calling protectionism a leftist position is pretty loving dumb Jumping off this, anyone who plays the 'heh if you think about it Trump is more progressive than Hillary am I right' game is basically actually saying 'I'm white, straight, male, and decently enough off I can ride out a presidential term of a lunatic, sucks for everyone else I guess'.
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Mar 14, 2016 14:51
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I too, hate straight white males who think they deserve a chance in life instead of being turned into paupers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhKA1uX2UmI
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Mar 14, 2016 14:58
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i yearn for the end of extant human civilization
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Mar 14, 2016 15:54
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I dislike that social policies are tied to party politics. When you want to support the rights of all people but your candidate is a hawk with economic policies that don't solve any real problems. Hooray for individual rights in the United States, but watch me continually bomb and kill foreigners.
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Mar 14, 2016 16:20
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