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The Saurus posted:I too, hate straight white males who think they deserve a chance in life instead of being turned into paupers. Hillary belongs in prison
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Mar 14, 2016 16:25
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Revolutionary politics are dangerous and should only be used as an option of last resort. Change does not come about suddenly and cannot be forced onto an unwilling public. It is instead a slow, hard-won process that is built around compromise and consensus-building. Politicians who promise radical change and transformation are likely to be devoured by their supporters when their promises fall short of reality, or will face backlash that will ultimately undo everything they worked to achieve. I would rather have a technocrat who understands how the system works than an outsider who claims to be ideologically pure.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:04
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I think that what we consider to be "American Democracy" is going to collapse and fail completely during this generation sometime. To elaborate: Nearly a solid century of our major political parties gaming the system to polarize voters and secure corporate revenue has resulted in a sociopolitical climate in which our population is splintered into several factions that are, ideologically, not capable of long-term coexistence. Unfortunately, my understanding of the situation isn't actually nuanced enough to lay out all the players, but casual observation indicates to me that our society's liberal and conservative constituents are poised to become fierce enemies before long. This is the result of the political game that our parties have played. By portraying liberal voters and minorities in general (who may not be actually liberal voters) as an "un-American" subculture that wants to plunder the American Dream and turn everybody gay and Mexican, the GOP has effectively transformed conservative voters, who by definition represent the status quo, into activists. Normally, your activist voters should really just be either the liberal voters who want to change society, or your fringe groups like libertarians who want to tear something down. By establishing a party message that is, in fact, conservatives who are the "real patriots" and are being "persecuted for their way of life", the GOP has created the illusion that any attempts from the other side to improve social or economic disparity issues are an attack against them, rather than an attempt to improve quality of life over all. When you combine such a complex for "standing your ground" with a leader who expresses strong anti-other sentiments while simultaneously encouraging extreme action from his followers, you end up with the current situation where Trump supporters clash with counter-trump protesters, who I believe are acting in self-defense against a leader whose ideology exists as a weapon to be used against them specifically. The ultimate fear I have from this situation is not that Trump will usher in a new era of American fascism and white supremacy; he talks a fascist game, but I don't think even our lovely legislative branch would sign off on anything resembling a Brown People Death Squad any more than the DEA already does. My fear is that Trump's performance this election is going to teach the GOP the lesson that they should adopt his tactics for all future proceedings, and reduce all of our national discourse to a series of petty insults and carte-blanche statements about purging undesirables and punching liberals in the head. We are approaching the final test of democracy in a post-internet world. When a nation's leaders are elected by the people, then the ideology of those leaders must be representative of the people who elected them to power. Therefore, by definition, if you oppose the ideology of a candidate, you must by extension oppose those people who would support them. We are now more connected and aware of politically-charged events than ever before, thanks to the availability of nonstop streams of information, news, and opinions that are constantly being blended together, allowing our polarized society to see all too clearly what the "other team" is up to, or allegedly up to. Without something to halt these groups' increasing drift apart from each other, it's only a matter of time before those differences of opinion become totally irreconcilable.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:09
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hillary is in fact trump with makeup as in, donald trump and bill clinton are washington's foremost powercouple. hillary will become president due to being the frontrunner candidate for both dems and republicans
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Mar 14, 2016 17:13
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Trump wears more makeup than Hillary Hillary still bad though
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Mar 14, 2016 17:41
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Al! posted:Everything's probably going to be fine Not only this, but future audiences will probably watch a holomovie about our political and economic struggles and be vaguely confused for lack of relevancy. Like watching The Witch, and being confused by everything they do, say, and believe.
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Mar 14, 2016 17:45
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Thundercracker posted:Not only this, but future audiences will probably watch a holomovie about our political and economic struggles and be vaguely confused for lack of relevancy. yeah i am hopeful for that. though i am not sure  I think the right is going more off the deep end. and the left is either doing nothing or being trite clowns on twitter.
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Mar 14, 2016 20:00
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Thundercracker posted:Not only this, but future audiences will probably watch a holomovie about our political and economic struggles and be vaguely confused for lack of relevancy. It'll be shown before tours of the Great Unfinished Wall
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Mar 14, 2016 20:00
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In all other aspects of my life I am content, in following US politics currently I feel a gaping depression and hopelessness for the future that I feel I can't share fully anywhere other than shitpost whitenoise reactions on an old internet comedy subforum. I wrote more but realized its too E/N Global warming won't be dealt with in a serious way until the effects are more obvious, we're by nature reactive only to immediate crises and disasters, and by then of course it'll be way too late to prevent a great deal of death and unrest.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:13
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All sex is rape adn all men are rapists. The only way to properly progress as a society is through the genocide of all white males.
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Mar 15, 2016 06:20
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Bernie and Trump voters are the same mindless angry people. 40 years apart.
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Mar 15, 2016 17:24
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Honest political opinion: we've never been technologically closer to communism, and have never been politically farther from communism Home-scale power, computing, and soon food and medicine production is going to, in the next 50 years, allow people to quit their jobs. At first just tinkerers, then those laid-off, then the people working miserable jobs, and then the entire working class. Capitalism's going to start having crises it won't be able to recover from, and labor force participation will begin its steady decline to zero. Cheers!
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Mar 15, 2016 18:46
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Mofabio posted:Honest political opinion: we've never been technologically closer to communism, and have never been politically farther from communism it's adorable how you think the average jobless poor will be able to afford to not only educate themselves on these things but also obtain the necessary tools
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Mar 15, 2016 18:56
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crabcakes66 posted:Bernie and Trump voters are the same mindless angry people. 40 years apart. Ah yes, I too know of all those current-day Trump voters who knocked on doors and made calls to elect George McGovern and Jimmy Carter
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Mar 15, 2016 21:45
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Wheeee posted:it's adorable how you think the average jobless poor will be able to afford to not only educate themselves on these things but also obtain the necessary tools Well mom will give them the food clothing and housing they need to keep going right?
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Mar 15, 2016 21:48
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420 Gank Mid posted:Ah yes, I too know of all those current-day Trump voters who knocked on doors and made calls to elect George McGovern and Jimmy Carter they're back with a vengeance
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Mar 15, 2016 22:03
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420 Gank Mid posted:Ah yes, I too know of all those current-day Trump voters who knocked on doors and made calls to elect George McGovern and Jimmy Carter I have an uncle who always cites having voted for McGovern as evidence for his political open mindedness and is voting for Trump. He's weird though.
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Mar 15, 2016 22:10
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Identity Politics are a privileged distraction: Superficial physical features aren't qualifications.
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Mar 15, 2016 23:38
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Wheeee posted:it's adorable how you think the average jobless poor will be able to afford to not only educate themselves on these things but also obtain the necessary tools That's part of the culling process as the planet runs dry and the Plutonians consolidate power and try to resist the recycling process.
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Mar 16, 2016 00:50
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Powercrazy posted:Identity Politics are a privileged distraction: Superficial physical features aren't qualifications. pretty much. its bunch of angrycollege kids/old hippies with white guilt and super into post modernism bullshit. most of them have money and they feel bad about it. the right does the same thing with the evangelicals and the white pride dumbasses Dapper_Swindler has issued a correction as of 00:53 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 00:50
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Itt goons literally forget that minorities actually exist
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Mar 16, 2016 00:54
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Al! posted:Itt goons literally forget that minorities actually exist Interesting reading. How crippling is your white guilt in your day to day life?
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Mar 16, 2016 01:42
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Dapper_Swindler posted:pretty much. its bunch of angrycollege kids/old hippies with white guilt and super into post modernism bullshit. most of them have money and they feel bad about it. the right does the same thing with the evangelicals and the white pride dumbasses Some of them don't even have money. They just lack any kind of meaningful social life.
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Mar 16, 2016 01:43
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How is this any different from people who dismiss socialists as 'overeducated marxotweens '? It's a snide dismissal and not a real counter-argument. Identity politics is bad because it consistently erases class and promotes bourgeois individualism. The history of US labor movements relationship to blacks is somehow taken as proof of 'socialism's blindness to race', ignoring that a large part of the global decolonization movement of the 20th century was driven by socialism, not to mention lenin's groundbreak decriminalization of homosexuality and abortion, etc etc.
goatse.cx has issued a correction as of 03:13 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 03:07
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goatse.cx posted:lenin's groundbreak decriminalization of homosexuality and abortion, etc etc. there goes Lenin again pushing identity politics over the real issues
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Mar 16, 2016 03:49
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A repudiation of identity politics is not a repudiation of the fight against racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry. The aim of identity politics is to further entrench an atomized capitalist society, to divide and rule to the benefit of the ruling class.
The Saurus has issued a correction as of 03:52 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 03:50
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The Saurus posted:A repudiation of identity politics is not a repudiation of the fight against racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry. The aim of identity politics is to further entrench an atomized capitalist society, to divide and rule to the benefit of the ruling class. no less an authority than angela davis refers to this as "identitarian" politics. i think the social justice folks are one group among many that can be brought into a workers' coalition. most of them have an understanding of at least one axis of oppression and its systemic function, whether it's white supremacy, patriarchy, heteropatriarchy, etc. and most of them are familiar with intersectionality, the trick is including capitalism as a spoke of that wheel and building discipline so internecine, atomized struggles don't collapse the organization
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Mar 16, 2016 05:41
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The problem is whenever you start talking about class and they go "Oh, so MY revolution has to wait for YOURS?" Also a lot of them don't want anything more than a ruling class which is demographically representative of the population as a whole. The essjaydubya speech-fascism is kind of impossible to work with too. You can't build broad-based coalitions with people who yell at anyone who disagrees with them slightly and shuts themselves away in an echo chamber at the first opportunity.
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Mar 16, 2016 06:03
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The Republicans will get triggered and defeat themselves any time Democrats elect someone who's not a white male and they shouldn't nominate another white male until the strategy stops working.
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Mar 16, 2016 06:07
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The Saurus posted:The problem is whenever you start talking about class and they go "Oh, so MY revolution has to wait for YOURS?" Also a lot of them don't want anything more than a ruling class which is demographically representative of the population as a whole. if you go in with that attitude, maybe
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Mar 16, 2016 06:14
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The Saurus posted:The problem is whenever you start talking about class and they go "Oh, so MY revolution has to wait for YOURS?" Also a lot of them don't want anything more than a ruling class which is demographically representative of the population as a whole. I find the opposite to be true.
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Mar 16, 2016 06:16
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Al! posted:I find the opposite to be true. yeah this also. if anything those folks are more likely to hear you out if you unabashedly declare your being a drat dirty red
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Mar 16, 2016 06:51
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Truly the best primary season experienced in my lifetime.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:38
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Wyld Thang posted:Truly the best primary season experienced in my lifetime.
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Mar 16, 2016 07:56
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Wyld Thang posted:Truly the best primary season experienced in my lifetime.
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Mar 16, 2016 09:48
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Dapper_Swindler posted:pretty much. its bunch of angrycollege kids/old hippies with white guilt and super into post modernism bullshit. most of them have money and they feel bad about it. the right does the same thing with the evangelicals and the white pride dumbasses Post modernism is extremely good; it's milquetoast liberals bending over backwards to ensure that their deconstructions never examine capitalism that makes the method seem bankrupt.
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Mar 16, 2016 12:22
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Al! posted:I find the opposite to be true. I had bad experiences with a group of internet stalinists who despise bernie sanders because they believe he wants to commit a genocide against all palestinians. Also if you had any kind of minority-status you were allowed to treat everyone else like poo poo and then brush it off as "I have been oppressed therefore I'm not responsible for my own actions" The Saurus has issued a correction as of 18:08 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 18:05
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The Saurus posted:A repudiation of identity politics is not a repudiation of the fight against racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry. The aim of identity politics is to further entrench an atomized capitalist society, to divide and rule to the benefit of the ruling class. i am for the fight against racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry. I just hat the thing where the left is getting intrenched in petty bullshit like "the media is violent and doesnt say exactly what i want" and "this college history program triggers me" is stupid and bullshit. If it makes people feel better i agree with the goals and protests. I get depressed and annoyed when i watch streams of it, and it just turns into a block party with twerking and white hipsters talking about how they whip themselves at night and old hippies talking about nothing. Dapper_Swindler has issued a correction as of 18:13 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 18:11
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if you want to build a mass movement you are going to have to learn how to deal with idiots and that is a fact.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:06
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Homework Explainer posted:if you want to build a mass movement you are going to have to learn how to deal with idiots and that is a fact. We're building one right now. It's going to make America great again.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:55
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