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redreader posted:Ok, I heard back. They had approval for $X for the role and are trying to get me more money than $X. They submitted the request to get the position altered to be a better one with more money, and it's currently waiting for approval. Even if they don't find the money, its not necessarily the end of things: You could, for example, say "that's fine, I'll take that pay, in return I need (pick as many a you think I can get away with) an automatic promotion to the senior position with a pay rate of X at the 9 month/1 year mark, a four day work week for the same pay, a fully remote schedule, or even negotiate severance ahead of time". Or, to put another way, its possible they don't improve the offer - so think about what it would take to make it work now, so its not a shock later.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:34
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redreader posted:edit: also the finance team is on a business trip for the week so the approval (or denial?) is taking longer than expected but my future manager is following up with them every day. Yeah, our finance team is at a conference in Vegas right now.
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Feb 28, 2024 19:41
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I could live with just getting the original amount of money, and in fact I have no job and no prospects apart from this one so I'm actually desperate. I would accept that offer in a heartbeat if they said 'well that's that and we can't change it', it's just that I TRIED for a better offer and it seems like it's working. My main worry is that if they can't get the better offer together they may not want to give me the original offer. I suppose I want to know how to counteract that, or if that's a stupid thing to be afraid of, or ??? edit: it's a pretty good setup already. fully remote! redreader fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 20:44
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It's unlikely they will pull the offer entirely.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:41
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And if they do: bullet dodged.
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Feb 28, 2024 22:19
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Thanks!
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Feb 29, 2024 00:46
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I got a call saying that the increase is approved and I'll get my job offer today or tomorrow. They bumped me up to senior and matched my old salary that I mentioned, but there's also a substantial bonus every year that apparently everyone at the company gets, or doesn't get. Mine would have been like 10% but is now 25%. My old job didn't have that so I suppose I'm sort of glad I got laid off, like I normally end up saying. Thanks for all of your help everyone.
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Feb 29, 2024 20:09
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redreader posted:I got a call saying that the increase is approved and I'll get my job offer today or tomorrow. They bumped me up to senior and matched my old salary that I mentioned, but there's also a substantial bonus every year that apparently everyone at the company gets, or doesn't get. Mine would have been like 10% but is now 25%. My old job didn't have that so I suppose I'm sort of glad I got laid off, like I normally end up saying. Thanks for all of your help everyone. Congrats!
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Feb 29, 2024 20:14
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redreader posted:I got a call saying that the increase is approved and I'll get my job offer today or tomorrow. They bumped me up to senior and matched my old salary that I mentioned, but there's also a substantial bonus every year that apparently everyone at the company gets, or doesn't get. Mine would have been like 10% but is now 25%. My old job didn't have that so I suppose I'm sort of glad I got laid off, like I normally end up saying. Thanks for all of your help everyone. Nice! Sounds like the company was willing to be smart to value you which is maybe a better thing than the extra money. Congrats!
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Feb 29, 2024 20:19
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redreader posted:I got a call saying that the increase is approved and I'll get my job offer today or tomorrow. They bumped me up to senior and matched my old salary that I mentioned, but there's also a substantial bonus every year that apparently everyone at the company gets, or doesn't get. Mine would have been like 10% but is now 25%. My old job didn't have that so I suppose I'm sort of glad I got laid off, like I normally end up saying. Thanks for all of your help everyone. Aww yiss, that’s dope as hell.
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Feb 29, 2024 23:25
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redreader posted:I got a call saying that the increase is approved and I'll get my job offer today or tomorrow. They bumped me up to senior and matched my old salary that I mentioned, but there's also a substantial bonus every year that apparently everyone at the company gets, or doesn't get. Mine would have been like 10% but is now 25%. My old job didn't have that so I suppose I'm sort of glad I got laid off, like I normally end up saying. Thanks for all of your help everyone.
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Feb 29, 2024 23:38
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redreader posted:I got a call saying that the increase is approved and I'll get my job offer today or tomorrow. They bumped me up to senior and matched my old salary that I mentioned, but there's also a substantial bonus every year that apparently everyone at the company gets, or doesn't get. Mine would have been like 10% but is now 25%. My old job didn't have that so I suppose I'm sort of glad I got laid off, like I normally end up saying. Thanks for all of your help everyone. Congrats!! Another thread success story always warms my heart. Truly one of the most valuable resources on the internet
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Feb 29, 2024 23:43
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Negotiated a higher level position than the one I interviewed for while unemployed and that was kind of nerve wracking. I've only ever negotiated hard when I've had other offers or an existing job. Never don't negotiate goons. I ended up with 35% more total compensation and a higher level and all it took was five minutes on the phone. I didn't even have another offer in hand and they knew that, though they were aware that I had more interviews with other companies who were paying more but i wasn't at the offer stage yet with them.
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Mar 5, 2024 23:15
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Chaotic Flame posted:Negotiated a higher level position than the one I interviewed for while unemployed and that was kind of nerve wracking. I've only ever negotiated hard when I've had other offers or an existing job. 
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Mar 5, 2024 23:29
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So which one of the people from your avatar did you stare them down as?
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Mar 6, 2024 08:34
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recruiter: are you in talks with any other companies? you: yes. [i applied to like 200 but haven't heard back from any of them yet] you do not owe anyone more information than exactly they need
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Mar 6, 2024 09:59
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:So which one of the people from your avatar did you stare them down as? im going to guess chloe
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Mar 6, 2024 14:37
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:So which one of the people from your avatar did you stare them down as? leper khan posted:im going to guess chloe
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Mar 6, 2024 16:08
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Jordan7hm posted:I dunno where you all work but in my experience you have to be pretty senior or the org has to be pretty small to get them to change their standard employment contract for you. One time my boss swore blind that HR was "making" him do some lovely unlawful thing - since resolved - and I didn't want to straight out call him a liar but I also didn't want him to think I didn't have a basic idea of how businesses work.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:39
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Yeah, one of HR's most important roles is Designated Scapegoat. "We'd love to give you a raise or a promotion or a bonus, honest and truly we do, but HR and their policies won't allow it, those meanies." - your boss telling you that he doesn't care enough about you to fight to get you your raise/promotion/bonus.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:44
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I once had an interview where the dude I was interviewing was asking me my marital status, if I had kids, all kinds of questions I'm fairly certain are illegal, if not at least problematic He had a lady from HR sitting right next to him and she never said a word
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Mar 6, 2024 23:59
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Those questions are very illegal, in the US and I therefore presume everywhere
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Mar 7, 2024 00:27
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Eric the Mauve posted:Those questions are very illegal, in the US and I therefore presume everywhere This was in Australia, and I sat there like ffffffffff
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Mar 7, 2024 00:55
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I had the thought process of, if you don't give me this job I could cause you guys a lot of problems that you don't want I did get the job, but like, wtf lol
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Mar 7, 2024 00:58
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Did you *take* the job?
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Mar 7, 2024 01:46
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Omne posted:Did you *take* the job? I did! she said, regretfully
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Mar 7, 2024 02:15
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Also this was like, after formal interviews and was said in the beginning to be informal but like.... Anything prior to a job offer is still an interview!
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Mar 7, 2024 18:25
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Paxman posted:One time my boss swore blind that HR was "making" him do some lovely unlawful thing - since resolved - and I didn't want to straight out call him a liar but I also didn't want him to think I didn't have a basic idea of how businesses work. I'm real curious what this was. On one hand, yeah HR is set up to be the bad guy and managers will pawn off responsibility for their lovely decision making on HR despite us sometimes telling them "do literally the opposite of this." On the other hand, I've been witness to some pretty dumbfuck HR folks that had plenty of experience confidently answer questions in a way that violates labor law.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:06
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FMguru posted:Yeah, one of HR's most important roles is Designated Scapegoat. IT is our scapegoat here. Guaranteed they aren't the ones who made the call that no one, even those with a legit need, can get Adobe Acrobat. Its like $300 a year for a single license, and I've wasted more than that in three weeks dealing with our really lovely stand-in. Can't imagine how cheap business wide licenses are.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:00
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Parallelwoody posted:I'm real curious what this was. On one hand, yeah HR is set up to be the bad guy and managers will pawn off responsibility for their lovely decision making on HR despite us sometimes telling them "do literally the opposite of this." On the other hand, I've been witness to some pretty dumbfuck HR folks that had plenty of experience confidently answer questions in a way that violates labor law. I work for a large UK business with offices across the country. I was one of four people with the same fairly senior-sounding job title, each in a different region. One day out of the blue we all received emails from HR saying "I am pleased to announce your appointment to [a far more junior role]. Congratulations and thank you for your efforts". When I checked, I saw my job title had already been changed on our internal staff network - which meant the new title was visible to the many hundreds of other staff in the business. My arguments were i) I had a contract of employment which stated my job title, and while the company was entitled to make "reasonable changes" this did not include moving me to a far more junior role. ii) They could not make a change as significant as this to my contract without my agreement. iii) They *could* make my existing role redundant if there was a business reason for doing so (this is how it works in the UK, not sure about elsewhere), and in that situation they could perhaps offer me an alternative role - but they hadn't done that Anyway, my boss attempted to convince me i) this was only a change to my "internal" title and not my "outward facing" title (there's no such thing) ii) As they didn't intend to change my responsibilities or pay it didn't matter (job titles do matter - they convey your level of seniority) iii) I could give potential future employers my "old" job title because I could just write whatever I liked on my CV! (but when a future employer asked my current employer for a reference and got the "new" job title, wouldn't I look like a liar?) So eventually my boss just said HR was telling him to do this and he didn't have any choice. I suspect it was true in as much as my immediate boss may have been powerless, but I doubt it was HR that made this decision. It was probably someone in head office. Eventually someone right at the top of the company got involved and it all went away. Btw you may think they were trying to get rid of me but in practice they could have made me redundant any time they liked and I have since been promoted. Perhaps I should have quit but I'm pretty sure this whole thing was incompetence rather than malice.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:11
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My gut instinct tells me they are trying to sell on your pay and "external" title remaining the same as to not cause any immediate alarm. A year down the road when you want a raise or promotion, they'll point to your Jr "internal title" and say the job market matches for your salary range based on title. They'll likely say that you are already making over market value and remind you that they generously let you keep your salary even though the title changed. They may additionally post the more the role for a different office where labour is cheaper or offshore it. Your boss is full of poo poo. Ask him if his title changes since he's now managing Jrs and not Srs. Honestly I'd just start looking somewhere else if possible.
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Mar 10, 2024 19:48
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hey thread, thanks for helping me change my friend’s life. she got an offer letter, had never negotiated before, and was really reluctant to negotiate. i sent her some pointers from the OP and she netted an extra 10%. WADDUPPPPPPPPPP
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Mar 13, 2024 21:32
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In the final stages with a hiring loop. The next time I hear from them, it will either be an offer or it won't be. I think it'll be an offer, and if that happens then their numbers will likely be much higher than what I have now. Just found out today that my BATNA has improved a decent amount (but still not enough to compete with what they'd probably offer). Do I communicate that to them before they make their decision (in the hope that it'll make their offer better)? Do I withhold that information from them (to make it easier for me to walk away)? Do I bring it up after they make their offer (in the hope that it'll make them agree to raise their number for me)?
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Mar 22, 2024 21:53
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I have two questions, but first: shoutout to this thread for giving me the courage to negotiate in the past. I’ve had a 100% success rate negotiating so far. It’s kinda incredible to have companies interested in my skills and offer nice benefits and fully remote work. Thanks for helping me crawl out of the family poverty ditch! I’m mid-interviewing with a company that seems deeply interested in my skillset right now (in this economy, no less, holy poo poo), and barring unexpected circumstances, I think I’ll get an offer. At the very least, it has me thinking about how I’d handle an offer. 1. When a startup that’s survived for almost 10 years gives you an offer on the high end of a salary range, what’s the protocol for negotiating? Since I kept talking after I heard the range, I’m thinking I can’t push past the cap. It’s a great range for me (15-35% over my last job), but I want to get what I can. 2. I have yet to work somewhere that has given me a raise since retail, and I’m tired of it. Is it possible to lean on a company during the offer period to provide a clear path to salary revaluation? Even something to secure yearly cost of living increases would make a difference. I can’t tell what’s appropriate to ask for here.
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Mar 23, 2024 01:53
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For 2, ask what the process is for CoL/Merit. I've never really seen negotiated guarantee raises in the software world, and you are a UX person I believe, so is just ask about that process. For 1, there's a lot that depends but if their offer is market I think you'd have better luck countering in their range. The top might be a hard limit or not, but if it's a good offer personally I think you'd have better luck keeping it in bounds.
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Mar 23, 2024 02:27
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broken pixel posted:I have two questions, but first: shoutout to this thread for giving me the courage to negotiate in the past. I’ve had a 100% success rate negotiating so far. It’s kinda incredible to have companies interested in my skills and offer nice benefits and fully remote work. Thanks for helping me crawl out of the family poverty ditch! 1. you can try going a little over base, but its usually easier to get other perks even if they net the same [conference/hotel budget/flight budget, learning budget, internet/phone paid, etc] 2. anything you get here isnt worth much. "we reviewed your salary and it still looks near top of market!"
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Mar 23, 2024 02:32
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leper khan posted:1. you can try going a little over base, but its usually easier to get other perks even if they net the same [conference/hotel budget/flight budget, learning budget, internet/phone paid, etc] Sorry if I missed this, but if they offer equity then it’s always easier for them to give more equity than almost anything else
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Mar 23, 2024 03:06
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Thanks everyone—and yep, I’m in UX! My instincts on how to approach it were correct, but I didn’t want to undersell myself on accident. I’ll ask them about their CoL/merit process. I’ll keep their equity offer in mind, too.
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Mar 23, 2024 04:00
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I was job hunting last year and did a few rounds of interviews with one company who ultimately passed on me. They said they liked me and though I had experience in the role, they wanted someone with more specific knowledge about their particular field. They said they would keep me in mind if anything else in that department opened up. Shortly after, I found a new job. This week, that company reached out to say there was another position in that department open and they thought of me. I'm happy in my new role and have only been in it 10 months, so I'm not really looking to leave. In addition, the new role had a pay bump and hiring bonus (that would have to be repaid if I leave within 2 years), so it would take a much better offer to get me to leave now than a year ago. If I'm really not interested in leaving, what's the right move here? Politely decline and ask them to keep me in mind for roles 3-5 years down the line? Interview anyway to hear more about the position and maybe change my mind? Try to get an offer and use that as leverage during raise negotiation at my current job? Honestly I'm not used to companies actually following through when they say "we'll keep you in mind" and I kind of want to give positive reinforcement for that.
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Mar 23, 2024 05:47
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Cliff posted:I was job hunting last year and did a few rounds of interviews with one company who ultimately passed on me. They said they liked me and though I had experience in the role, they wanted someone with more specific knowledge about their particular field. They said they would keep me in mind if anything else in that department opened up. Shortly after, I found a new job. see if the role/number they have is within your "big enough" category promoting up/out and a fat signing bonus should cover your reservations
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Mar 23, 2024 05:51
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