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Tots
Sep 3, 2007

:frogout:

Ezekiel_980 posted:

I really just want to leave my current employer because of the toxic environment it has making something that is closer to what a masters level chemist should be making would be nice too. Haven't done the research yet but that is a excellent suggestion that i should have thought of in the first place. and this is a growing international pharma company.

Also see if the fields take 0

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Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Ezekiel_980 posted:

Goons,

Advice question for salary negotiations, I just received the application form which for this company is a online document. irritatingly they have marked the current salary and desired one as required items. any suggestions on how i should reply?
Put in $1. It's negotiable later, and by putting in $1, you're indicating that you'll negotiate it later.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Ezekiel_980 posted:

I really just want to leave my current employer because of the toxic environment it has making something that is closer to what a masters level chemist should be making would be nice too. Haven't done the research yet but that is a excellent suggestion that i should have thought of in the first place. and this is a growing international pharma company.
If you're willing to live in the Piedmont Triad of NC, I'm hiring a polymer chemist. PM me if you want more details.

Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Nov 24, 2021

Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006

Dik Hz posted:

If you're willing to live in the Piedmont Triad of NC, I'm hiring a polymer chemist. Send me a copy of your resume if you want more details.

Sadly I'm an NMR jockey so only polymer experience I can offer is analysis of them, oddly I seem to be the only one in my team who knows how to do it. if I was a synthetic chemist I'd be all over your offer though.

Also good suggestion for tossing 0 in, the hiring manager already wants to meet me so HR will have to tolerate my wanting them to make an offer.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Nov 25, 2021

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006

Kalenn Istarion posted:

I guess you didn't read the previous posts. Lying is bad and you will get found out.

Try to narrow down your salary data to the region you actually live in - getting data points from cities with job markets that aren't related to where you live is pointless.

Assuming B gives you an offer that's an improvement on A but A is where you want to work, you can certainly go back to A (if they give you an offer) and say "thanks for the offer, I'm excited to work for you but you should know that I've recently received and offer for a comparable role at $x. I'd prefer to work for you and would be happy to sign if you can match the other offer."

Make sure that you get their written offers so that you can compare other terms like vacation and benefits.

I read the previous posts. Some of them were mine. Lying about your current salary was the topic and is a Nono because the VOEs.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal
How'd I do?

Phone inteview: They asked what salary range I was looking for, I said I'd rather leave that to the employer. Maybe not range just what salary I can't remember now.

Her: "What salary range are you looking for?"
Me: "I don't really feel qualified to put a salary range on a job, so I'd like to see what you'd offer."
Her: "Well we really don't want to waste anyone's time, ours or yours."
Me: "I don't think any offer is ever a waste of time."
Her: "OK, so you're open to negotiating."
Me: "I am, yes."

Was the gist of it. Then we moved on.

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av
Good

district 12
Oct 19, 2004

muscles griffon~~
Hello thread,

I am in the midst of a very successful interviewing process and the next step is speaking to the owner, which will likely result in an offer. The job title is Digital Content Producer/Editor but because it's a small company, based on what my interview process has been like so far, I'll be managing, editing, and/or writing nearly every bit of copy for the site.

I've been burned before by a "small" company paying me a barely-livable salary and I don't want to repeat that mistake, but this job is the most ideal next step I could have asked for in my career, so walking away will be really, really hard.

Basically, if they lowball me, how do I bump up the salary significantly? Without Glassdoor for the company, how can I anticipate what they might offer me to prepare for negotiations? It seems like a successful business, based on the press they get, but during the interview the person I spoke with kinda emphasized that it's a small operation.

I know what I want and I know that I deserve it because I am talented, but if they offer me 20k less than my desired salary... can I say, "All my research has shown that a comparable position makes $XXk a year and I would like a salary commensurate with my experience, talent, and the going market rate"?

Because I've tried that before, and it got me $35k in NYC. That was a really rough year.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

district 12 posted:

Hello thread,

I am in the midst of a very successful interviewing process and the next step is speaking to the owner, which will likely result in an offer. The job title is Digital Content Producer/Editor but because it's a small company, based on what my interview process has been like so far, I'll be managing, editing, and/or writing nearly every bit of copy for the site.

I've been burned before by a "small" company paying me a barely-livable salary and I don't want to repeat that mistake, but this job is the most ideal next step I could have asked for in my career, so walking away will be really, really hard.

Basically, if they lowball me, how do I bump up the salary significantly? Without Glassdoor for the company, how can I anticipate what they might offer me to prepare for negotiations? It seems like a successful business, based on the press they get, but during the interview the person I spoke with kinda emphasized that it's a small operation.

I know what I want and I know that I deserve it because I am talented, but if they offer me 20k less than my desired salary... can I say, "All my research has shown that a comparable position makes $XXk a year and I would like a salary commensurate with my experience, talent, and the going market rate"?

Because I've tried that before, and it got me $35k in NYC. That was a really rough year.

Is your current salary also 20k less than your desired salary? If so, it sounds like you have terrible BATNA and need to go out and get multiple offers that corroborate your desired salary. If not, then use your current salary as well as your research.

district 12
Oct 19, 2004

muscles griffon~~
Yeah, I figured. That makes sense, but it's comparing Wisconsin to NYC, hourly to salaried, and contractor to full-time employee... the new position is a step up as well so the salary should be, I think.
There are some strange circumstances surrounding this too, namely that I haven't yet graduated (that's in May) and so getting equivalent offers seems tricky; also this position was recommended to me by a friend of the owner. I didn't expect the interviewing process to happen so quickly.

Essentially, I'm fine staying put in my current job (which increases my BATNA value, right?) and waiting until I graduate to apply elsewhere but this new position is truly a dream, the timing is just a little weird.

I'll see what happens, I have a few years of experience in this industry and I'm earning my bachelors, so there's that standing behind me, at least. (Also, the interviewer said my writing samples were impressive, so that's a point for me, as well.)

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av
Yeah being totally ok not moving definitely helps your case. I would look at salary ranges for similar job titles on glass door and elsewhere, try to filter for the region to the extent you can, and be ready to say 'no' if they don't move what you think is far enough. If it's really the dream job then you should factor that into how hard to stick on pay though. Since you're just starting out you should be focused more on good experience that will set you up to get better value later in your career rather than maximum dollars now.

district 12
Oct 19, 2004

muscles griffon~~
Thanks! It's good to have my feelings confirmed. I have a range in my head based on what's livable in NYC to me, so as long as it's minimum the low number, I can figure out the rest.

Sunny Side Up
Jun 22, 2004

Mayoist Third Condimentist
.

Sunny Side Up fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Dec 6, 2017

Big Spoon
Jan 29, 2009

Want that feelin'
Need that feelin'
Love that feelin'
Feel that feelin'
Hi everyone. I wanted to get an opinion on something I'm kinda split on. When do you discuss salary during the job interview process? One thought I had was simply to ask for the anticipated range during the phone screen if/when the recruiter brings up salary (if they don't then leave that discussion for another time). The other thought I had was to not worry about salary until an offer was in the works. Maybe its somewhere in between (after the phone screen and during an early interview with the hiring manager)? I suspect its much more dependent on the job-seeker and their BATNA but I wanted to see what y'all thought.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I'd say the closer to the end of the process, the better. The more a company invests in you(in the form of time, money spent, etc), the more attached they will be to hiring you and thus the more willing they will be to bend on salary ranges. Their batna becomes starting over from scratch to find a good candidate, a relatively long process.

TheWevel
Apr 14, 2002
Send Help; Trapped in Stupid Factory
What do you do if you already know what the approved salary is (because you have friends working there) but you have to deal with an HR lackey that's trying to save the company money?

edit: For more info- basically my current customer is hiring me for a management role. I have worked with them for the past 4 years on various projects and have primarily worked with people at the director/vp level. One of said directors called me last week and said "Hey, this person that we hate is leaving and you'd be the perfect fit for it". I had a 10 minute phone interview earlier this week and am expecting an offer literally any minute now. The only problem is that I'll be dealing with someone from corporate HR and not anyone I know. I have to negotiate salary, relo, and getting my health benefits to start immediately instead of in 90 days (my wife is having a baby).

TheWevel fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Mar 30, 2016

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

Big Spoon posted:

Hi everyone. I wanted to get an opinion on something I'm kinda split on. When do you discuss salary during the job interview process? One thought I had was simply to ask for the anticipated range during the phone screen if/when the recruiter brings up salary (if they don't then leave that discussion for another time). The other thought I had was to not worry about salary until an offer was in the works. Maybe its somewhere in between (after the phone screen and during an early interview with the hiring manager)? I suspect its much more dependent on the job-seeker and their BATNA but I wanted to see what y'all thought.

The best time is usually to wait until they've made a decision to hire you. It's mentally harder for them to walk away after they've crossed that bridge, so you have more leverage.

TheWevel posted:

What do you do if you already know what the approved salary is (because you have friends working there) but you have to deal with an HR lackey that's trying to save the company money?

edit: For more info- basically my current customer is hiring me for a management role. I have worked with them for the past 4 years on various projects and have primarily worked with people at the director/vp level. One of said directors called me last week and said "Hey, this person that we hate is leaving and you'd be the perfect fit for it". I had a 10 minute phone interview earlier this week and am expecting an offer literally any minute now. The only problem is that I'll be dealing with someone from corporate HR and not anyone I know. I have to negotiate salary, relo, and getting my health benefits to start immediately instead of in 90 days (my wife is having a baby).

If they are bringing you in like that odds are they will step up.

If they don't, go to the real decision makers, who are the people you will work with, and ask / tell them what you need and to get the hr person to stop messing around. There's nothing at all wrong with short circuiting the hr loop if you have a good relationship.

swenblack
Jan 14, 2004

Kalenn Istarion posted:

If they are bringing you in like that odds are they will step up.

If they don't, go to the real decision makers, who are the people you will work with, and ask / tell them what you need and to get the hr person to stop messing around. There's nothing at all wrong with short circuiting the hr loop if you have a good relationship.
Completely agree. A phone call from a director to HR clears up the BS instantaneously. We routinely hire contractors for management positions in my organization, and by the time we have the approval to do so, we're completely committed to that particular person, and I'll rip the head off the HR weenie who costs me a good candidate. We pay out the nose for people, but there is absolutely no substitute for a good worker who already gets along with the team.

Couple other points I'd like to make to TheWevel:
- Exploit your information asymmetry. As long as you're professional in your negotiation, there's only upside to setting a high target.
- The outbound guy wasn't liked. You are. Therefore you're more valuable and should be paid more than the outbound guy.
- Can you get on COBRA or something similar for your wife? Slightly less than routine (or premature) pregnancies can easily result in 6 figure medical bills. Also, companies don't always have flexibility with regards to the start of medical benefits.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Kalenn Istarion posted:

If they are bringing you in like that odds are they will step up.

If they don't, go to the real decision makers, who are the people you will work with, and ask / tell them what you need and to get the hr person to stop messing around. There's nothing at all wrong with short circuiting the hr loop if you have a good relationship.

Yep. Counter-offer with the approved salary and watch them blink. If they don't, toss a call to your friends. :)

TheWevel
Apr 14, 2002
Send Help; Trapped in Stupid Factory
Thanks for the advice everyone!

Sefal
Nov 8, 2011
Fun Shoe
I think i'm in a position to ask for a raise.

a bit about myself.
Graduated last year in june.

Started working in July 2015 as a jr system administrator.
Company A hired me and pays my salary. They have placed me at company B.
I started primarly solving Tier 1 tickets, withing 3 months I was starting to solve tier 2 tickets and migrating servers to 2012R2 (i've done 3 now. WSUS, DHCP and Active Directory)
Company B promoted me to tier 2 on april 1st 2016. I've also been studying in my spare time to become MCSA Server 2012 certified. I'm MCSA 2012 certified since late march 2016.
i've had a good performance review last month. (this was a inbetween performance review) i have the yearly performance review scheduled in june.

A company tried to recruit me. I initially blew them off. They managed to convince me to come in for a meeting anyway. Meeting went well.
I should have read this thread sooner but i blew the salary negotation. I told them how much I currently make. I lied and told them i made a bit more and they asked me what salary i wanted. I said 2500 euro gross monthly
I know I hosed this up.
They will mail me an offer this week. I kinda hope it gets in before I have the meeting with my boss.


I have a meeting with my boss tomorrow. in which i will plan on asking for a raise.
I plan on asking for 2500 euro gross monthly. I currently make 1700 euro gross monthly

Am I being too hasty? Should I wait to finish my 1st year of employment? I'm now 10 months in.

Sefal fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Apr 6, 2016

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Well, if you get an offer for EUR2500 gross monthly, are you going to be happy with it? If yes, and the position seems good in other ways, I think you should move on.

Getting your current employer to match can be risky. They now know that you are potentially interested in moving on. Now you are #1 on the Layoff poo poo List.

Sefal
Nov 8, 2011
Fun Shoe

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Well, if you get an offer for EUR2500 gross monthly, are you going to be happy with it? If yes, and the position seems good in other ways, I think you should move on.

Getting your current employer to match can be risky. They now know that you are potentially interested in moving on. Now you are #1 on the Layoff poo poo List.

I would be happy with 2500 but i'm not feeling that company. I applied to another place where I would make at the minimum 2400 but I would like working there. I've sent in my application. Hoping to get a call back. It's a jr sys admin role perfect for me.

So should I just not mention the offer and ask for a raise based on my merit?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Well you probably aren't going to get a 47% raise straight out so I would just keep on looking. You could talk to your manager about your path forward and compensation etc to get a sense of how they view you and whether you would like to stay, but unless you jump you aren't going to get to 2500 euro very soon.

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


Sefal posted:

I have a meeting with my boss tomorrow. in which i will plan on asking for a raise.
I plan on asking for 2500 euro gross monthly. I currently make 1700 euro gross monthly

Am I being too hasty? Should I wait to finish my 1st year of employment? I'm now 10 months in.

10 or 12 months doesn't make much of a difference. Just make sure your resume doesn't start to consist of 6-12 month jobs for several years.

Uranium 235
Oct 12, 2004

I'm not sure how to proceed in my current situation. tl;dr below

I live in a very expensive metro area and I've been at my employer for almost two years. Based on public employee salary data from across the country, it looks like I could make 15-20% more if I'm willing to change employers and possibly relocate. I've begun applying and interviewing for positions in comparable cities so I can see what options I have and hopefully learn more about my value.

Pretty basic stuff, but here's my dilemma: I love where I work and would prefer to stay here. If it turns out that I'm worth more to someone else, I'd like to give my employer the opportunity to retain me by offering me more money. However, my supervisor doesn't control the budget for our group within the department. I work in a very technical and specialized profession, and no one is more qualified to evaluate my performance than my supervisor. My annual reviews have been stellar, and he's made many comments about how lucky he was to get me, he frequently checks in to make sure I'm happy, and I'm certain he wants to keep me. He's also put in a lot of resources into getting me training for my specific role, which is unique within our group and department. Within my profession, the experience I've gotten is unique and I doubt they could find anyone who could immediately step into my role if I left, so I feel valuable.

Unfortunately, my supervisor doesn't control the salary budget for our group, so he can't just give me a raise even if I walk in one day with a competing offer. He'd have to appeal to the administrative director of the department, who doesn't share our technical background and is much less familiar with me and specific role in the department. I'm concerned that if I had a competing offer, my supervisor couldn't get me a raise guaranteed quickly enough, and I'd have to make a decision to stay or leave before hearing anything official about a raise. I feel like that lowers the negotiating power I'd get from a competing offer.

I've had success with recent interviews and I'm moving forward in the process with some employers. I haven't gotten an offer yet, but I think I need to have a game plan for when I do. Do I play it the 'normal' way by taking it to my supervisor, telling him I'm prepared to accept the offer, and seeing what he says? If he advocates for me getting a raise, do I milk the clock as long as I can before making a decision? If he is trying to get me a raise but hasn't secured one by my deadline, but insists it will come through later and asks me to be patient, do I take that chance?

I've been selective with my applications and I would feel happy relocating for these jobs, but again, I prefer where I am now and would stay with a competitive counteroffer.

In my case, would it make more sense to talk to my supervisor about adjusting my salary before I get any competing offers?

tl;dr

My supervisor values me, but doesn't control a budget for salaries. I have unique skills that would be costly to replace. I am pretty sure I'm worth 15-20% more than I'm getting in comparable cities across the US, including my own. I'd prefer to stay with my current employer, but I'd leave for 15-20% more money. I'd like to give my employer a chance to retain me, but I'm afraid that my supervisor won't be able to secure a raise for me before my deadline for answering another offer. Should I talk to my supervisor about a salary adjustment before getting another offer, or should I wait til I have an offer and take my chances?

Dwight Eisenhower
Jan 24, 2006

Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

Uranium 235 posted:

I'm not sure how to proceed in my current situation. tl;dr below

I live in a very expensive metro area and I've been at my employer for almost two years. Based on public employee salary data from across the country, it looks like I could make 15-20% more if I'm willing to change employers and possibly relocate. I've begun applying and interviewing for positions in comparable cities so I can see what options I have and hopefully learn more about my value.

Pretty basic stuff, but here's my dilemma: I love where I work and would prefer to stay here. If it turns out that I'm worth more to someone else, I'd like to give my employer the opportunity to retain me by offering me more money. However, my supervisor doesn't control the budget for our group within the department. I work in a very technical and specialized profession, and no one is more qualified to evaluate my performance than my supervisor. My annual reviews have been stellar, and he's made many comments about how lucky he was to get me, he frequently checks in to make sure I'm happy, and I'm certain he wants to keep me. He's also put in a lot of resources into getting me training for my specific role, which is unique within our group and department. Within my profession, the experience I've gotten is unique and I doubt they could find anyone who could immediately step into my role if I left, so I feel valuable.

Unfortunately, my supervisor doesn't control the salary budget for our group, so he can't just give me a raise even if I walk in one day with a competing offer. He'd have to appeal to the administrative director of the department, who doesn't share our technical background and is much less familiar with me and specific role in the department. I'm concerned that if I had a competing offer, my supervisor couldn't get me a raise guaranteed quickly enough, and I'd have to make a decision to stay or leave before hearing anything official about a raise. I feel like that lowers the negotiating power I'd get from a competing offer.

I've had success with recent interviews and I'm moving forward in the process with some employers. I haven't gotten an offer yet, but I think I need to have a game plan for when I do. Do I play it the 'normal' way by taking it to my supervisor, telling him I'm prepared to accept the offer, and seeing what he says? If he advocates for me getting a raise, do I milk the clock as long as I can before making a decision? If he is trying to get me a raise but hasn't secured one by my deadline, but insists it will come through later and asks me to be patient, do I take that chance?

I've been selective with my applications and I would feel happy relocating for these jobs, but again, I prefer where I am now and would stay with a competitive counteroffer.

In my case, would it make more sense to talk to my supervisor about adjusting my salary before I get any competing offers?

tl;dr

My supervisor values me, but doesn't control a budget for salaries. I have unique skills that would be costly to replace. I am pretty sure I'm worth 15-20% more than I'm getting in comparable cities across the US, including my own. I'd prefer to stay with my current employer, but I'd leave for 15-20% more money. I'd like to give my employer a chance to retain me, but I'm afraid that my supervisor won't be able to secure a raise for me before my deadline for answering another offer. Should I talk to my supervisor about a salary adjustment before getting another offer, or should I wait til I have an offer and take my chances?

If you like your employer and you do not feel an immediate sense of urgency to switch jobs and make more money here is how I would play it:

Slow down competing offers, ideally you want to get them spread out over time.
As you receive competing offers, go to your supervisor and inform him of where you are at very frankly. Tell him that you like where you work, that you want to stay there, but you cannot leave that kind of money on the table. Set expectations about what you want as an outcome: "I know that you cannot get a change effected quickly, probably not in time to be in place before this offer is no longer valid. That's fine, but I want you to match this at my next annual review."
Continue to get competing offers. Continue to have this conversation with your supervisor. Continue to provide him material copies of the offers that he can use to argue for why you need a raise and he needs the budget. Hammer at the expectation: Next annual review you match this, or I leave.
At annual review, get a raise, or continue to interview, get an offer, and relocate, having done as much as you could to make things work.

slothzilla
Dec 19, 2003

I'm looking to shift fields (from a non-profit to a consulting firm that works with non-profits) and the top of their range (with bonus) didn't quite reach my current salary, without bonuses it is significantly lower. How believable are bonus estimates? At what point in the interview process is it appropriate to probe about how firm their range is?

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

slothzilla posted:

I'm looking to shift fields (from a non-profit to a consulting firm that works with non-profits) and the top of their range (with bonus) didn't quite reach my current salary, without bonuses it is significantly lower. How believable are bonus estimates? At what point in the interview process is it appropriate to probe about how firm their range is?

You must live on bizarro world where you're making more at a non profit than you can at a consultancy

Bonus estimates' worth depends to some extent on the firm offering them. I have a target range on my bonus but the company I work for has trended well below the disclosed target ranges for people at my level for the last couple years for ~reasons~. I'm still happy with the actual bonus ranges that are in effect but you need to get a feel for that or assume it's zero.

I would tend to stay away from talking numbers until relatively late in the process - ideally you want to have the discussion after they've already made the decision to hire you as they'll psychologically be less likely to walk away even if you push them out of their range once they've decided you're the one they want.

slothzilla
Dec 19, 2003

Kalenn Istarion posted:

You must live on bizarro world where you're making more at a non profit than you can at a consultancy

I was so surprised I accidentally told them what I make.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

quote:

Bonus estimates' worth depends to some extent on the firm offering them. I have a target range on my bonus but the company I work for has trended well below the disclosed target ranges for people at my level for the last couple years for ~reasons~. I'm still happy with the actual bonus ranges that are in effect but you need to get a feel for that or assume it's zero.

Yep. Unless you have reliable inside income (aka not what HR says) on how the company treats its bonuses, always treat bonuses as surprise income and don't count on them to make ends meet.

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

slothzilla posted:

I was so surprised I accidentally told them what I make.

I know we usually say it's a bad thing to bring up your current salary but in this case it's a positive anchor so not a big deal

thehandtruck
Mar 5, 2006

the thing about the jews is,
Got an on-site interview with a biotech/health company in Culver City, CA (few miles from Los Angeles) for Behavior Modification Specialist and they want me to fill out some documents one of which asks for desired salary. Kinda stumped on this one because even with a masters in psych (focus in industrial/organizational psych) and a few years of behavior modification therapy for little autism dudes some places value that experience highly and some don't. As my first real job out of post-grad I don't even really care about getting the absolute maximum I just want to get hired. Still, I hear that going too low demonstrates you don't value your skills possibly because those skills aren't that good or something. So 50k? I mean honestly that's probably the lowest I'd want to go anyway (I think). Again this is my first real job and I have been finding it extremely difficult to find a job that matches my degree because I -apparently- lack experience. I'm still somewhat narrowed on what kind of job I want and am hoping not to expand that circle until I really have to because even though I want to work with people the typical HR job sounds awful. Bleh, feel like I'm swimming in muck over here.

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

thehandtruck posted:

Got an on-site interview with a biotech/health company in Culver City, CA (few miles from Los Angeles) for Behavior Modification Specialist and they want me to fill out some documents one of which asks for desired salary. Kinda stumped on this one because even with a masters in psych (focus in industrial/organizational psych) and a few years of behavior modification therapy for little autism dudes some places value that experience highly and some don't. As my first real job out of post-grad I don't even really care about getting the absolute maximum I just want to get hired. Still, I hear that going too low demonstrates you don't value your skills possibly because those skills aren't that good or something. So 50k? I mean honestly that's probably the lowest I'd want to go anyway (I think). Again this is my first real job and I have been finding it extremely difficult to find a job that matches my degree because I -apparently- lack experience. I'm still somewhat narrowed on what kind of job I want and am hoping not to expand that circle until I really have to because even though I want to work with people the typical HR job sounds awful. Bleh, feel like I'm swimming in muck over here.

Stop guessing (that sounds way too low btw) and go do some research. Glassdoor is a good salary reference site and there are several others. You may need to look for a broader title than the specific one you noted above though.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





Please add to the OP

http://www.onionstudios.com/videos/tips-for-negotiating-your-salary-3957

Mad Wack
Mar 27, 2008

"The faster you use your cooldowns, the faster you can use them again"

Sundae posted:

Yep. Unless you have reliable inside income (aka not what HR says) on how the company treats its bonuses, always treat bonuses as surprise income and don't count on them to make ends meet.

This is so true - I had four separate jobs where I was never paid my bonus, even at the highest evaluation levels! I was shocked when my last two regularly paid bonuses because I was so used to getting nothing. It became a regular part of my negotiations to take cuts on my bonus to get my base salary up. It was also a good way to tell when they weren't really serious about paying bonuses. ("Oh, ummm, we can't give you a 10k bonus cut to raise your salary by 5... we don't really usually have that money")

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.
How feasible is it to look for a job, specifically in mechanical engineering, where you kind of need a signing bonus to take it? My wife (m.e. With ~5 years experience) is terribly unhappy at her current job which started about 5 months ago. Unfortunately they paid for our relocation and we'd have to pay back 100% if she left before a year, 50% before two. I'm not sure how much it would be, but it would be a lot; they even put us up in a nice apartment for the first month.

Is it worth looking and hoping to find somewhere that would be willing to give a fairly hefty sighing bonus?

Doghouse fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Apr 28, 2016

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
That's a pretty industry-specific question - you might try this thread http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3209369

A 10k signing bonus doesn't sound crazy to me at all, you should probably give your best order-of-magnitude estimate of the bill.

e: The answer is still always yes, yes it's worth looking. Long term it's worth it even if you have to foot a bill in the short term anyway.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 28, 2016

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you
My thread contribution: For anyone interested in negotiations in general, I recommend a book that I used in a course about negotiations. Bargaining for Advantage by Richard Shell

http://www.amazon.com/Bargaining-Advantage-Negotiation-Strategies-Reasonable/dp/0143036971

There's been a lot of discussion about opening with a number or waiting for the other party to open. I like Shell's perspective, which is "when in doubt, don't open". But if you are the more informed party, then you may want to be the opening position (as long as you have genuine leverage).
I can't think of very many situations in a salary/benefits negotiation where the employee hits both criteria.

The book uses a 2x2 matrix (a 2x2 matrix is a staple in every business school course!) with the axes labeled "Perceived Conflict over Stakes" and "Perceived Importance of Future Relationships Between Parties", with a high and low area for both.



When most people think of "negotiations", they think of the high stakes, low relationship "transactional" type. You're trying to extract as much value as possible from the other party. The other three areas are still meaningful negotiations. Also, if you are negotiating like a transactional event and the other party is treating it as a relationship event, you're probably going to be perceived as a dick. This can be a meaningful difference if you're negotiating your salary with the owner of a 3 employee small business compared to a giant corporation with 80,000 employees.

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swenblack
Jan 14, 2004

Doghouse posted:

How feasible is it to look for a job, specifically in mechanical engineering, where you kind of need a signing bonus to take it? My wife (m.e. With ~5 years experience) is terribly unhappy at her current job which started about 5 months ago. Unfortunately they paid for our relocation and we'd have to pay back 100% if she left before a year, 50% before two. I'm not sure how much it would be, but it would be a lot; they even put us up in a nice apartment for the first month.

Is it worth looking and hoping to find somewhere that would be willing to give a fairly hefty sighing bonus?
We hire a fair number of engineers, and signing bonuses are extremely uncommon for anyone lower than the director level. Relocation expenses are generally paid, though, so I might try framing it that way in the job hunt. I.E. "I'd love to work with you, but as part of my compensation, I want you to assume responsibility for my relocation expenses." Don't open with the information, but rather bring it up during salary negotiations if offers progress that far. Also, be prepared for the question of why she's leaving after 5 months.

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