The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR? - The Something Awful Forums

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

Dik Hz: Feb 22, 2004; Fun with Science

Indolent Bastard posted:

The institution has a published salary grid. I fit a certain row based on the job I am applying for and that row has 9 columns from $xx,xxx through to $zz,zzz (technically $rr,rrr through $zz,zzz I suppose, but you get the point) and there is no column beyond $zz,zzz unless I move down another row (which I'm not even certain exists).

Thanks all. Here is hoping that the second interview I just finished will necessitate me taking part in negotiations when I get offered the job.

That sounds like the general pay scale and may be difficult to negotiate against because level is based on role and degree and step is based on time in role. Is that the case in this instance?

Also, it rarely hurts to ask. But if there's a published pay scale and your qualifications are at the bottom end and you ask for the absolute max, it makes you look out of touch. Your most valuable negotiating strategy to know what you're worth.

# ? Jul 13, 2016 00:04

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# ? May 1, 2024 11:18

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

Hi, I've found myself in a bit of a pickle with a job offer and I was hoping to get some advice.

The company I work for approached me today with an offer today for me to take on a new role with some significant new responsibilities outside of my current position. While these new responsibilities are more along the lines of what I want to do in my career, I will have to continue my current role and responsibilities as well, despite the fact that the new responsibilities will take a significant amount of my time and require near weekly plane travel.

When I inquired about what the compensation would be for the new position, as I wanted to get all of the information before making a decision, I received this answer:

"Proven performance in the role needs to be seen as we try out the new structure before adding compensation to the discussion. A compensation consideration in the March/April timeframe will be based on the performance in the position through the next six months."

I want to take on the new role, but I don't want to be put in a position where I'm taking on a lot of additional work and responsibility while not receiving any compensation for that extra work. Moreover, because they haven't given me a number, at the end of the six months my employer could just as easily tell me that there won't be any change in compensation at all, which is also not a situation I want to find myself in.

Do I refuse to take the position unless I see hard numbers, and possibly get passed over the next time an opportunity arises? Do I take the position without additional compensation for my work and hope that after six months that I will receive a salary increase that will make it worth it?

I'm really unsure on how to proceed, and I could use a hand. I'm expected to send an e-mail on Monday with my answer.

# ? Jul 23, 2016 10:58

Deadite: Aug 30, 2003; A fat guy, a watermelon, and a stack of magazines?
Family.

Are the rules for negotiating different when the offer is for a position at a charity? Or does it just feel sleazier to try to squeeze more money out of an organization that is trying to help people?

# ? Jul 23, 2016 14:18

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

paradigmblue posted:

I'm really unsure on how to proceed, and I could use a hand. I'm expected to send an e-mail on Monday with my answer.

The generic advice is to push back and refuse the position unless there's an increase in compensation relative to the increase in responsibilities.

However, there's a lot of missing information that could make this bad advice. Can you give us more details about how replaceable you are in your current position vice the new position? How likely is another similar opportunity to come up if you decline this one? Where are you at in your career and where do you want to be in your career?

Occasionally, taking the increased responsibilities regardless of compensation makes sense if you have a crappy BATNA and you intend to leverage the new skills into a new career field or at a different company at a much higher salary. Transitioning from engineering to project management is a great example in my industry (aerospace/defense), if the latter suits your talents better.

# ? Jul 23, 2016 15:28

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

swenblack posted:

The generic advice is to push back and refuse the position unless there's an increase in compensation relative to the increase in responsibilities.

However, there's a lot of missing information that could make this bad advice. Can you give us more details about how replaceable you are in your current position vice the new position? How likely is another similar opportunity to come up if you decline this one? Where are you at in your career and where do you want to be in your career?

My current position is retail management - I am the GM of a 14,500 sf liquor store with a staff of 25, which makes me fairly replaceable - retail management isn't exactly rocket science. I've been very successful at that role however, so it sounds like one of the reasons that management wants me to stay in my current position as well is that they are afraid of taking a chance on another manager. The location I manage is relatively remote compared to the rest of the stores in the company, which means that I operate with a lot less support than other stores in the chain.

Opportunities like this don't come along often in the company, as there are very few places to go above store manager in the organization. I'm a little sideways in my career right now - I'm a certified specialist of wine and certified specialist of spirits, and most of my interest (and skills) are in product as well as staff and customer education rather than management. The new position would allow me to use those skills a little more. What I'm concerned about is that I'm being asked to continue to manage the store, plus take on all these additional responsibilities with no additional compensation.

Edit: Heck, here's the e-mail, in redacted form:

E-Mail from my boss posted:

paradigmblue,
As we discussed briefly today on the phone, XXXX will be leaving *Parent Company* in approximately two weeks. This gives us the opportunity to realign some responsibilities and the potential to bring the Wine Merchant position back to XXXX market for the XXXX stores.

Here is a list of some of the responsibilities for the position:
Local
� Meet with distributors on a regular basis

� Determine wine buys on a statewide level for national brands to enhance margin and assure competitive presence in the market

� Work with XXXX and XXXX on the PV wine selection and quantity for the XXXX Market

� Manage the flow through the warehouse in terms of quantity of PV wines in store verses

� Work with stores to determine displays for the wine area/department

� Assist in driving PV sales within all stores

� Conduct training and tastings with the staff to increase knowledge on products.

� Assist stores in assessing wine assortments and providing feedback and action plans for changes as needed in the store

Overall:
� Responsible for wine as a category

o Sales

o Margin

o Pricing

� Report on the wine business for XXXX each week to XXXX and the executive team including but not limited to:

o Sales and Margin

o Marketing success/failure

o PV as a percent of the wine sales within the market

o Actions being taken to improve sales and margin overall

� Marketing:

o Work with XXXX and XXXX to select items for the flyers

o Attend monthly marketing calls for the market

o Select monthly specials for the market

o Work with distributors on any IRC offers or special marketing promotions that may become available.

� Training

o You will be responsible for assisting in training on national and PV brands with the staff as time allows. Whether it is discussions on the floor or formal tastings

� Training for your new responsibilities would come quickly.

o Discussions with XXXX prior to leaving.

o Time with XXXX and XXXX for training around the US buying and PV

o Possibly time in XXXX with the other buyers and XXXX to understand their current processes and procedures.

� Reporting structure

o Split reporting to XXXX on wine merchant responsibilities and financial performance

o Market level report to me on XXXX store performance as well as the wine category performance on a store and product level

o Working with me on distributor relations and meetings when appropriate.

� Travel to XXXX will be required on a weekly basis.

Retaining the quality and focus on the XXXX store as the GM is required. This will require you to complete the training with XXXX, XXXX, and other staff members for their comfort in the store responsibilities.

I had a chance to discuss compensation with XXXX. Proven performance in the role needs to be seen as we try out the new structure before adding compensation to the discussion. A compensation consideration in the March/April timeframe will be based on the performance in the position through the next six months.

paradigmblue fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jul 23, 2016

# ? Jul 23, 2016 18:40

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

paradigmblue posted:

My current position is retail management - I am the GM of a 14,500 sf liquor store with a staff of 25, which makes me fairly replaceable - retail management isn't exactly rocket science. I've been very successful at that role however, so it sounds like one of the reasons that management wants me to stay in my current position as well is that they are afraid of taking a chance on another manager. The location I manage is relatively remote compared to the rest of the stores in the company, which means that I operate with a lot less support than other stores in the chain.

Opportunities like this don't come along often in the company, as there are very few places to go above store manager in the organization. I'm a little sideways in my career right now - I'm a certified specialist of wine and certified specialist of spirits, and most of my interest (and skills) are in product as well as staff and customer education rather than management. The new position would allow me to use those skills a little more. What I'm concerned about is that I'm being asked to continue to manage the store, plus take on all these additional responsibilities with no additional compensation.

Edit: Heck, here's the e-mail, in redacted form:

Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about your industry, so I'm defaulting to my generic advice. The only thing I do know is that in any field, good managers that take care of their employees and solve their own problems are irreplaceable. Your leadership's reluctance in hiring another manager is objective evidence of your (ir)replaceability. Negotiate with confidence.

I'd push back with: "I'm excited about this opportunity and the confidence you place in me, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to effectively manage my store without putting in additional hours. I'm also worried that the travel requirements will force me to spend more time away from my family. Considering the additional responsibilities and sacrifices I'd have to make, I expect commiserate compensation of X."

If they balk at that, I'd counter with: "I'm still excited about the opportunity and it aligns with my career goals. If I'm successful with my new assignment by demonstrating <something measureable> while maintaining sales at their current level at my current store, will you commit to a raise of X at my 6 month review?" Then do it.

# ? Jul 23, 2016 19:49

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

swenblack posted:

Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about your industry, so I'm defaulting to my generic advice. The only thing I do know is that in any field, good managers that take care of their employees and solve their own problems are irreplaceable. Your leadership's reluctance in hiring another manager is objective evidence of your (ir)replaceability. Negotiate with confidence.

I'd push back with: "I'm excited about this opportunity and the confidence you place in me, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to effectively manage my store without putting in additional hours. I'm also worried that the travel requirements will force me to spend more time away from my family. Considering the additional responsibilities and sacrifices I'd have to make, I expect commiserate compensation of X."

If they balk at that, I'd counter with: "I'm still excited about the opportunity and it aligns with my career goals. If I'm successful with my new assignment by demonstrating <something measureable> while maintaining sales at their current level at my current store, will you commit to a raise of X at my 6 month review?" Then do it.

Great, thank you.

# ? Jul 23, 2016 19:56

Dwight Eisenhower: Jan 24, 2006; Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

I disagree, under no circumstances should you accept additional responsibilities without additional compensation. A promise for a raise in 6 months is worth nothing, they will play the same game again when 6 months roll around until you grow a spine and put your foot down.

The ONLY way that it's a good move is if you can make yourself irreplaceable in your new double-position AND have the ability to walk for appropriate compensation after 6 months. If you do this you'll probably be occupying the double-position indefinitely so you have to make the compensation worth it over the long haul.

Get a good deal now, or don't go forward with them.

# ? Jul 23, 2016 23:12

Dik Hz: Feb 22, 2004; Fun with Science

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

I disagree, under no circumstances should you accept additional responsibilities without additional compensation. A promise for a raise in 6 months is worth nothing, they will play the same game again when 6 months roll around until you grow a spine and put your foot down.

The ONLY way that it's a good move is if you can make yourself irreplaceable in your new double-position AND have the ability to walk for appropriate compensation after 6 months. If you do this you'll probably be occupying the double-position indefinitely so you have to make the compensation worth it over the long haul.

Get a good deal now, or don't go forward with them.

In some companies if you refuse a promotion you'll get blacklisted for any future promotions or even get fired. Those are generally bad companies to work for, but sometimes you can't easily find a new job, y'know?

Also, in some industries, it can be hard to break into management. You might consider taking the promotion without compensation to make the transition then going elsewhere to get paid.

# ? Jul 24, 2016 16:24

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Yeah you could take the new title and immediately start interviewing elsewhere. I would do as stated above though.

# ? Jul 24, 2016 20:44

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

I disagree, under no circumstances should you accept additional responsibilities without additional compensation. A promise for a raise in 6 months is worth nothing, they will play the same game again when 6 months roll around until you grow a spine and put your foot down.

The ONLY way that it's a good move is if you can make yourself irreplaceable in your new double-position AND have the ability to walk for appropriate compensation after 6 months. If you do this you'll probably be occupying the double-position indefinitely so you have to make the compensation worth it over the long haul.

Get a good deal now, or don't go forward with them.

The six month option is a fall back position if the opportunity is in paradigmblue's long term career goals and negotiations fail. I would never encourage someone to take that as their opening position. Also, a documented plan for a raise in six months tied to specific measurable performance objectives is better than a promise, it's a legally enforceable contract.

I'd still do this though if there's no raise:

Dik Hz posted:

You might consider taking the promotion without compensation to make the transition then going elsewhere to get paid.

or this:

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Yeah you could take the new title and immediately start interviewing elsewhere.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 01:10

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

swenblack posted:

Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about your industry, so I'm defaulting to my generic advice. Negotiate with confidence.

I'd push back with: "I'm excited about this opportunity and the confidence you place in me, but I'm concerned that I won't be able to effectively manage my store without putting in additional hours. I'm also worried that the travel requirements will force me to spend more time away from my family. Considering the additional responsibilities and sacrifices I'd have to make, I expect commiserate compensation of X."

This. Yes maybe have a fallback since ti seems like you want this promotion regardless but new job = new money in my book.

I agree with the poster who said that in 6 months they'll be playing the same games. Your salary is pennies compared to the difference between the right and wrong person for the job.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 01:14

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

Thank you all for your insight - you've convinced me that I do need to push back a bit on this before accepting the position.

Let me know how this sounds:

"Thank you for offering me this new opportunity at [company name]. I enjoy working at [company name], and in my current role I'd like to think that I've been successful. I oversaw the opening and daily management of a 25 staff store generating 9MM in annual revenue, including performing staff development, sales tracking and inventory management. I've developed and implemented weekly wine education seminars and tasting programs that educated crowds of up to 50 attendees on wine history, regions and tasting concepts. I created the sales metric tracking workbook in coordination with Friedman Group that is now used company wide. I've written tasting notes for our private label wines used by the entire chain of 200+ stores.

Trying to translate that success into this new role is a risk that I'm excited to take, and I'm grateful for the confidence that you place in me, but given the extra responsibilities that will result in additional hours and travel that will take me away from my family, I'd hoped that the compensation would be commensurate. Given the circumstances and my past performance, I believe a pay increase of $3,120 annually would be reasonable. If this is something the company can work with, I'd be happy to work at that rate for the first 6 months and at that point, we can sit down and review my performance in the new role against projections and a defined list of expectations."

# ? Jul 25, 2016 02:41

antiga: Jan 16, 2013

I don't know what your salary is or your location, but that sounds like a very low ask. It would be better to ask for more and be able to fall back on that.

Don't let their first offer of no additional comp anchor you into thinking a small raise is reasonable for the extra work. It sounds fairly substantial, and it will be hard to get any major adjustment in the future even if you do perform well.

At the risk of saying too much in one post: A contingency is a risk but it may be your only option if they won't play ball. If you have a six month contingency, it should be for real money (compensates you for aforementioned risk and six months of extra work for free) and be in writing.

antiga fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jul 25, 2016

# ? Jul 25, 2016 03:29

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

antiga posted:

I don't know what your salary is or your location, but that sounds like a very low ask. It would be better to ask for more and be able to fall back on that.

I currently make $67,496 annually. $3120 would be about a 4.6% increase. What should I ask for? 10%?

My location would give away the company, but the cost of living index is 133 here.

The executive that will ultimately make the decision is a real pay-for-performance type. Would it be better to ask for 5% now and another 5% in 6 months contingent on my performance?

Amount aside, does the wording sound ok? Am I talking too much about accomplishments unrelated to the new role?

Thanks again for the help.

paradigmblue fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jul 25, 2016

# ? Jul 25, 2016 03:49

antiga: Jan 16, 2013

I'm sure others will chime in, here's my 2c.

I like opening with your accomplishments. Overall wording is good, just modify the bit about what you "hoped" the salary would be and what would be "reasonable". Come up with a concrete, confident ask, $X, and have a defense for why that is appropriate. Best option is a salary for a comparable role which is admittedly difficult to find, next best would be current salary upped by whatever percent extra time you expect to be working. If you'll be doing weekly overnight travel, 15% is easily justifiable. If you have friends in similar industry roles, ask them what they think.

You could also offer raise to $Y with a bonus Z such that Y<X but X+Z>Y. This gives him a chance to pay you for performance. Make the terms reasonable given that this is a new role for you and get it in writing.

E: in the end, you have to decide whether it's worth it to you to develop those skills and build your resume by doing the work at a discount. I understand that trade-off well. With whatever contingency/salary/bonus structure you come up with, +15-25% sounds attainable to me given the increase in responsibility you described.

antiga fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jul 25, 2016

# ? Jul 25, 2016 04:13

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

I don't think it'd be particularly unreasonable to ask for 80k. I don't really know about your industry or anything but it sounds like a bunch more work and responsibilities.

# ? Jul 25, 2016 06:19

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

What does glassdoor say similar roles make in that area? $67,000 seems low for a retail GM, especially if you come with a degree, VERY low if that degree is in finance or an MBA but this is not my area of expertise.

I thought your wording was a bit...wordy..and sounded a little unsure about what you were asking for. You can combine in word to see tracked changes. Here it is in carforumposter's voice:

paradigmblue posted:

Thank you for this new opportunity. I enjoy working at [company name] and glad my current role has contributed to the company's success. Currently, I oversee the opening and daily management of a 25 staff store generating 9MM in annual revenue, including performing staff development, sales tracking and inventory management. I developed and implemented weekly wine education seminars and tasting programs that educated crowds of up to 50 attendees on wine history, regions and tasting concepts. I created the sales metric tracking workbook in coordination with Friedman Group that is now used company wide. I've written tasting notes for our private label wines used by the entire chain of 200+ stores.

I'm excited to translate that success into this new role and am grateful for the confidence that you place in me. However, given the responsibilities and additional hours/travel, I am disappointed that the suggested compensation does not align with the additional workload. Taking in to account my past performance, and a survey of comparable jobs, a salary of $[Whatever the high end of glassdoor suggests] is commensurate with the responsibilities and expectations. Again I am thrilled with the opportunity to continue to innovate to meet customer's needs and the company's goals.

Also, google how this conversation goes. They are tense for me and I am generally comfortable interviewing.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jul 26, 2016

# ? Jul 26, 2016 01:22

Dik Hz: Feb 22, 2004; Fun with Science

paradigmblue posted:

Thank you all for your insight - you've convinced me that I do need to push back a bit on this before accepting the position.

Let me know how this sounds:

"Thank you for offering me this new opportunity at [company name]. I enjoy working at [company name], and in my current role ~~I'd like to think that~~ I've been successful. I oversaw the opening and daily management of a 25 staff store generating 9MM in annual revenue, including performing staff development, sales tracking and inventory management. I've developed and implemented weekly wine education seminars and tasting programs that educated crowds of up to 50 attendees on wine history, regions and tasting concepts. I created the sales metric tracking workbook in coordination with Friedman Group that is now used company wide. I've written tasting notes for our private label wines used by the entire chain of 200+ stores.

~~Trying to~~ Translating that success into this new role is a risk that I'm excited to take, and I'm grateful for the confidence that you place in me.~~, but given the extra responsibilities that will result in additional hours and travel that will take me away from my family, I'd hoped that the compensation would be commensurate.~~ Given the circumstances and my past performance, I believe a pay increase of $13,120 annually would be reasonable. If this is something the company can work with, I'd be happy to work at that rate for the first 6 months and at that point, we can sit down and review my performance in the new role against projections and a defined list of expectations."

Don't negotiate against yourself by offering back-up terms. If you're willing to accept the back-up terms, wait for a counter-offer before suggesting them. Don't hedge. Your accomplishments speak for themselves. And a 4.6% raise is peanuts for a major step up in responsibility. I don't know your industry, but I'd make a much bigger ask.

That being said, how reasonable are your managers? Would you get any blowback for negotiating?

# ? Jul 26, 2016 01:26

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

Thank you Dik Hz and CarForumPoster - I wish I had refreshed this thread one more time before I hit send on the e-mail!

This was my final version that I put out there, I'll let you know how it goes:

paradigmblue posted:

[Regional Manager] and [Executive VP],

Thank you for offering me this new opportunity at [Company Name]. I enjoy working at [Company Name], and in my current role I think that I've been successful. I oversaw the opening and daily management - including performing staff development, sales tracking and inventory management - of a 25-staff store that will generate 9MM in revenue this year and that is among the cleanest and best merchandised in the [Company Name] system. I've developed and implemented weekly wine education seminars and tasting programs that educate crowds of up to 50 attendees on wine history, regions and tasting concepts. I created the sales metric tracking workbook in coordination with Friedman Group that is now used company wide. I've written tasting notes for our PV wines used by the entire chain of 200+ stores.

In addition to my experience at [Company Name] I also bring to the table a long history in our industry, including 5 years of wine and spirits sales at the distributor level and specialist certifications in both wine and spirits.

Trying to translate these successes and experiences into this new role is a risk that I'm excited to take, and I'm grateful for the confidence that you place in me. I appreciate that this new role is a bit of an experiment for all three of us, but I can't ignore that the extra responsibilities that I will be taking on above and beyond my current position will result in additional hours, and the weekly travel that is required in the role will take me away from my family.

Given the circumstances and my past performance, I think an initial pay increase of $6,500 annually ($541 a month) would be reasonable. If this is something the company can work with, I'd be happy to work at that rate for the first 6 months, and at that point we can sit down and review my performance in the new role against projections and a defined list of expectations.

Thank you again for this opportunity. I'm looking forward to taking on this new challenge.

Warmly,

paradigmblue

CarForumPoster posted:

What does glassdoor say similar roles make in that area? $67,000 seems low for a retail GM, especially if you come with a degree, VERY low if that degree is in finance or an MBA but this is not my area of expertise.

Sadly I played way too much StarCraft in college and never graduated, so I have that working against me. While 67k may seem low, I'm almost certain that I'm among the highest compensated store managers in the chain.

CarForumPoster posted:

Also, google how this conversation goes. They are tense for me and I am generally comfortable interviewing.

My palms got sweaty and my heart raced just getting up the nerve to hit the "send" button. I'm terrible at being assertive, so this was really hard for me. We'll see what happens.

# ? Jul 26, 2016 01:54

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

Let us know how it turns out. It is important we get that kind of feedback.

# ? Jul 26, 2016 02:05

swenblack: Jan 14, 2004

paradigmblue posted:

My palms got sweaty and my heart raced just getting up the nerve to hit the "send" button. I'm terrible at being assertive, so this was really hard for me. We'll see what happens.

Don't panic when it takes two weeks for them to get back to you. That's just part of the game. Keep doing your job and don't do anything to subvert your position, like send another e-mail "just to follow up." It may have been difficult, but it felt awesome at the same time, right?

# ? Jul 26, 2016 02:51

Dik Hz: Feb 22, 2004; Fun with Science

paradigmblue posted:

My palms got sweaty and my heart raced just getting up the nerve to hit the "send" button. I'm terrible at being assertive, so this was really hard for me. We'll see what happens.

The first time is the hardest. Each time you are assertive in the business world it gets easier to be assertive the next time. After a couple go-rounds, you're fully in the game and on a level playing field. If the stats you posted in this thread are even halfway accurate, you deserve it.

Also, your degree gets you your first job. Every job after that is earned by your previous performance. Unless you're in academia or government.

# ? Jul 26, 2016 06:09

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

Dik Hz posted:

The first time is the hardest. Each time you are assertive in the business world it gets easier to be assertive the next time. After a couple go-rounds, you're fully in the game and on a level playing field. If the stats you posted in this thread are even halfway accurate, you deserve it.

Also, your degree gets you your first job. Every job after that is earned by your previous performance. Unless you're in academia or government.

Agree 100%. I consider myself a confident interviewer. I can make a friend by the end of it while still explaining how I can complete their needs. I was loving terrible when I started. There are interviews I still cringe with how I didn't prepare, didn't understand the companies needs, was too nervous, etc. when I went in.

It gets easier and more clear what needs to be done every time.

I am in my late 20s now but have been negotiating for raises since I was ~17 including being willing to walk (and doing so for a better opportunity). I remember being very disappointed and panicky when I realized that the ultimatum I gave wasn't going to happen for my raise from $9/hr to $12/hr that I requested.

...leaving that job for my backup plan if they said no led to something much better. The $9/hr job doesn't make it on my resume anymore, the business I ran at age 18 still does.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 26, 2016

# ? Jul 26, 2016 23:05

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

Welp.

Just got off the phone with my regional manager.

The executive VP is not willing to provide any additional compensation for the position.

I now have until the end of the work day today to decide if I still want the job.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 18:49

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

the answer is No

# ? Jul 27, 2016 19:04

antiga: Jan 16, 2013

I wouldn't work for someone who doesn't believe in additional compensation for (substantial) additional work. So if it's the right move for you to do it and get the skills/resume so you can quickly move to something better, that's understandable. Otherwise, that guy deserves to lose people for giving that response and having such a poo poo attitude, in my opinion. Your ask was totally reasonable.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 19:06

Bitchkrieg: Mar 10, 2014

paradigmblue posted:

Welp.

Just got off the phone with my regional manager.

The executive VP is not willing to provide any additional compensation for the position.

I now have until the end of the work day today to decide if I still want the job.

gently caress everything about that. Get out.

The added travel, if nothing else, mandates a raise.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 19:10

Dwight Eisenhower: Jan 24, 2006; Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

Yes. Run, don't walk to a new employer

# ? Jul 27, 2016 20:05

Prince Turveydrop: May 12, 2001; He was a veray parfit gentil knight.

Accept promotion for the new job title. Update resume with all new responsibilities and start interviewing.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 21:31

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

Chaucer posted:

Accept promotion for the new job title. Update resume with all new responsibilities and start interviewing.

This is what I would do. Indeed/LinkedIn/etc. time.

Resume thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3553582
LinkedIn Thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3531540

# ? Jul 27, 2016 23:22

Dik Hz: Feb 22, 2004; Fun with Science

paradigmblue posted:

Welp.

Just got off the phone with my regional manager.

The executive VP is not willing to provide any additional compensation for the position.

I now have until the end of the work day today to decide if I still want the job.

Accept it and start looking.

# ? Jul 27, 2016 23:40

paradigmblue: Oct 12, 2003

Dik Hz posted:

Accept it and start looking.

Accepted it.

Anyone looking for a kickass wine and spirits sales professional?

# ? Jul 28, 2016 03:43

George H.W. Cunt: Oct 6, 2010

paradigmblue posted:

Accepted it.

Anyone looking for a kickass wine and spirits sales professional?

Isn't that essentially a sommelier?

# ? Jul 28, 2016 21:28

CarForumPoster: Jun 26, 2013; â¡POWERâ¡

paradigmblue posted:

Accepted it.

Anyone looking for a kickass wine and spirits sales professional?

These people are:

http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=wine+manager&l=United+States
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=liquor+manager&l=United+States
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=total+wine+manager&l=United+States

# ? Jul 28, 2016 23:42

Bitchkrieg: Mar 10, 2014

Hi negotiation thread. I need help negotiating an immediate exit due to ongoing sexual harassment.

Here are a selection of comments from my boss. Direct quotes.

I am planning on quitting today with no notice, once I receive my offer letter (verbally accepted an offer last night). I am leaving my position due to documented ongoing harassment by my supervisor.

How should I manage leaving? I'd like to be done today with a good reference and avoid any legal entanglements
Any tips on what to say? I was going to meet at HR this afternoon.
Should I give them this document?

# ? Jul 29, 2016 12:59

spf3million: Sep 27, 2007; hit 'em with the rhythm

Bitchkrieg posted:

Here are a selection of comments from my boss. Direct quotes.

Holy poo poo.

# ? Jul 29, 2016 13:36

asur: Dec 28, 2012

You should talk to a lawyer before you quit or in any way communicate that you are quitting.

Edit: is there some confusion over who gives a recommendation? I just don't see you're boss giving a good rec if you quit with zero notice without a compelling reason that he would accept. A hostile work environment is a legitimate reason to quite with no notice, but you're boss probably won't see it that way and reporting him to HR would kill any chance whatsoever. I don't want this to come across as that you shouldn't report him, but I think you need to weigh the consequences against potentially helping other people in the office.

asur fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jul 29, 2016

# ? Jul 29, 2016 15:49

Dwight Eisenhower: Jan 24, 2006; Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

Bitchkrieg posted:

Hi negotiation thread. I need help negotiating an immediate exit due to ongoing sexual harassment.

Here are a selection of comments from my boss. Direct quotes.

I am planning on quitting today with no notice, once I receive my offer letter (verbally accepted an offer last night). I am leaving my position due to documented ongoing harassment by my supervisor.

How should I manage leaving? I'd like to be done today with a good reference and avoid any legal entanglements
Any tips on what to say? I was going to meet at HR this afternoon.
Should I give them this document?

You have nothing to gain and everything to lose, and pretty much no leverage to achieve anything unless you are willing to lawyer up.

Some rear end in a top hat might say it's not appropriate to this thread but a lot of what we talk about is job switching so here's my advice, having never had to deal with the terrible situation your soon to be ex-boss put you in:

Submit a resignation letter in writing. Keep it Nixonian:

"To <Direct Manager>,

Effective today, July 29th of 2016, I resign my position as <your job title>.

<Signature>
Bitchkrieg"

Have hard copy of this on your person. Say literally nothing else. Putting anything else in writing cannot help you.

Have a hard copy of your google doc on your person. If that GDoc is associated with a work account get it moved to a personal account ASAP. Do all of this before you let on to anyone that you're leaving.

Hand letter to your boss, be prepared to be escorted from the building. Refuse to discuss your reasons with him. Tell him you'll discuss why you're leaving with no notice with HR.

If and when you get debriefed by HR keep your position professional and impersonal:

- You are leaving without notice because your direct manager has created a hostile work environment.
- You have a dated record of a pattern of behavior of examples of his sexual harassment over the past 5 months.
- Your expectations are that you will receive good references from this company in the future despite leaving with no notice, in consideration of your boss's wildly inappropriate behavior.

IF they ask for the record you have a hardcopy on your person to provide them with. It is not the only copy of that document.

IF they assent get that agreement in writing.

IF they do not assent, become hostile, or otherwise adopt any position other than "Oh gently caress we can get our pants sued off! We'll agree to your reasonable demand!" then you probably want to leave and lawyer up.

Stay cool and professional, focus on this being the end of your relationship with this dysfunctional organization and that you have a new opportunity to work in a healthy place where you won't have terrible people doing and saying terrible things to you. Don't worry about arguing with them, about if your leaving is justified, or too much about them serving as a good reference for you. If they aren't cooperative, disengage and lawyer up.

edit: I strongly disagree with asur, do not stay around in a hostile environment any longer just to try and CYA legally. There is no reason for you to continue to be subjected to the abuse, and your own mental well being and health are the most important things.

Dwight Eisenhower fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jul 29, 2016

# ? Jul 29, 2016 15:51

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# ? May 1, 2024 11:18

Bitchkrieg: Mar 10, 2014

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to know.

# ? Jul 29, 2016 16:04

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