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Looking for a bit of advice. I currently work as a contractor through a company as a salaried FTE, and my client wants to hire me to work for them directly. He asked me for a number that'd make me switch and I told him (went with what I'd seen recommended earlier in the thread: my hourly rate x 100, which would be 40% more than what I make now). He didn't balk at all and said he could work with that, but he has to discuss with the CFO. So my question is, how do I handle this if he does come through with an offer I'm interested in? Do I just call my current employer and give 2 weeks? Do I give them a chance to counter? This all is somewhat complicated by 2 other aspects: 1) There's a non-compete in both my contract and the client's, which they'll have to buy out with my employer. So nothing's actually final until that's complete. 2) This is already the 2nd round of this. Earlier this year the client hit me with a number that was much lower and I told them I wanted to think about it and didn't really want to make big life changes until after I got married last month. They were very understanding. But I did end up telling my employer about the offer, and they gave me a raise to match. I don't particularly want to burn any bridges on either side, but I also don't really care if either one ends up being reasonably grumpy with me. If a counter would make the deal fall through and sour my relationship with the client I'd be fine getting dumped and moving on to another project (I've been there for 3 years straight already). And if my current employer ends up unhappy, I've given them 10 years, most of which at below market salary (until this whole thing started I've never really negotiated much, and it's still my first job out of college).
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Jul 9, 2017 22:39
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 05:14 |
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fantastic in plastic posted:In general, counteroffers are risky. They might be offering you one because they value your skill set and look forward to many years of working together, sure. They might also be offering you because you leaving right now would impact their bottom line and they want to manage you out of the organization on their terms rather than on yours. It's impossible to know for sure, so there's risk and I think the thread consensus is not to accept a counteroffer without a lot of good reasons. It's been 10 years since I've looked at the non-compete, but AFAIK it's avoidable with a simple buyout. This isn't the first time someone has jumped ship.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:29
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Good advice all around. I wasn't looking to get greedy, mostly wondering what the general etiquette is in the situation. I'm sure this entire thing could have been handled better, but so far both sides have said they appreciate how open I've been about what's going on. And I had already told my current employer there was a chance this would come up again after the wedding (and would require significantly more money to make me consider it -- but 40% would definitely qualify as that).
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Jul 10, 2017 20:11
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I just wanted to pop in and thank you guys too. Today's my first official day as an Application Development Manager with my former client. They came back with the full 40% bump, and they worked everything out with my former employer. I followed the thread's advice and just told them what was up with no chance for a counter. Honestly now that it's done, even besides the money I feel like a change has been overdue. I've been pretty complacent the last few years. You guys were right about the lawyer too. I have some Extremely Legal severance paperwork that I technically have 18 days to sign and send back, and I'm going to bring it to an employment lawyer to make sure I understand all the terms. I feel like I jumped into signing the original non-compete before I understood everything.
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Jul 31, 2017 15:24
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Defenestration posted:The point is that lots of places have DAMS and want people to implement or run them. I'm not sure why people focused on the database experience. Lots of people have really great experience, but without that offer in hand and the immediate threat of you leaving your employer has no real reason to give you more money. And if your BATNA isn't at least as good as what you currently have, they call your bluff and you stick around, you've basically ruined your negotiating credibility at your current position.
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Jan 9, 2018 15:12
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Just an idea, but at this point would it be better to back off a bit. Maybe ask for a small bump for the increase in responsibilities and solid performance. Be ready with a list of exactly the extra responsibilities over and above what you initially signed on for, because the original pay bump already theoretically covers a bunch of the extra you're doing now. But tell your boss flat out you want old guy's job and ask what it would take to get there. That shows you want to grow with them and puts it in his head that he should get ready to give you more (both compensation and responsibilities) or you might find something elsewhere along those lines. I agree with Dwight though, that without an offer from elsewhere you don't really have much leverage and you don't have a true grasp of your market value.
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Jan 16, 2018 15:51
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I found out on Thursday that the company I work for is getting bought out. I wasn't super concerned right away, because one of the stated reasons they decided to buy us was our technology/software (we're a construction-related company, not primarily software), and I'm the person on staff with the longest history working on it. But after thinking about it I'm starting to get concerned. My wife and I were just starting to look for our first house, and I have no intention of moving to the HQ location of the new firm halfway across the country. It sounds like they do do some telecommuting stuff, but I'm not really sure how much travel this would entail, or how likely it is I'll be able to keep my local dev team (2 developers and a BA, the devs are direct reports, with plans to hire another dev that are probably dead for now). They also apparently have an Oracle back end, while we're strictly a Microsoft shop. They also offered me a retention bonus worth about 21% of my annual salary if I stay 4 months after the merger. I haven't seen the actual offer yet since I was out on PTO Friday, so I don't know how binding any of it is. The way my boss described it over the phone it sounds like there's no downside if I leave. But on the other hand, I don't know if they have to pay out if they let me go before that. So I guess I have 2 questions for the thread: 1) On a scale of 1 to hair on fire, how freaked out should I be? I'll definitely be getting my resume ready, but should I start the job search now? 2) Should I try to negotiate that bonus upwards? I sort of soft agreed to it on the phone with my boss and said a bunch of stuff about seeing this as an opportunity to grow (which I do think is a possibility, given that our tech stack is probably more advanced than theirs and apparently their staff skews older according to our current CEO during the announcement). But I haven't even gotten a chance to look at it yet.
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Mar 5, 2018 00:46
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Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for the reality check guys. I'll fire up the resume and start putting feelers out.
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Mar 6, 2018 15:51
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So if you made 25k as a FTE, that's roughly equivalent to $50/hr. It's up to you what you base your rates on I guess. Personally I value my evenings and weekends pretty highly, so I'd want AT LEAST what I'm making at my day job to make it worth it unless it was something I really enjoyed or I really needed the extra. E: My numbers should be cut in half. ImpactVector fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 15:26
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Yeah, $100/hr would be a big ask for work in a field/position where you were making $25/hr as a FTE. But that might mean it's just not worth your time anymore. ImpactVector fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 16:27
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Zauper posted:
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Mar 22, 2018 16:31
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Shoot. You guys are right, I was mathing wrong and getting my numbers mixed up. It's .001 as the multiplier equivalent yearly salary to independent hourly rate. So you should ask for $50/hr if you want to make it worth your time compared to your $50k salary. I might honestly go a little higher since this is effectively overtime for you, but that's just me as someone who doesn't really want to work extra.
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Mar 22, 2018 16:52
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 05:14 |
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ImpactVector posted:I found out on Thursday that the company I work for is getting bought out. I wasn't super concerned right away, because one of the stated reasons they decided to buy us was our technology/software (we're a construction-related company, not primarily software), and I'm the person on staff with the longest history working on it. The merger closes 5/1. They offered me a job if I'd move down to FL (from MN) for my current salary plus a pretty generous relocation package and a small signing bonus. I turned them down. Moving across the country to Florida (loving lol), away from my family and friends (which I've done before and I ended up being pretty depressed) and my contracting contacts, to work for a company I know nothing about is a no-brainer. Anyway, that original retention bonus was from my current company. I guess they wanted to keep a few of us from bolting so we could wrap up a few things before the merger or something. I was unable to negotiate them any higher, with the given reason that the terms and amounts were pre-approved by the board of directors. But we've got another round of retention/severance stuff coming up from the purchasing company. My question is: What levers do I have to pull to try to get more out of them, and what do I need to look out for? The CEO of the new place verbally committed to keeping everyone at the HQ here employed through the end of the year. But I'm not sure I necessarily want to be sitting around on my rear end for 8 months, especially if there's an uptick in required travel. There's a 0% chance they'll let us into any of their systems, so my responsibilities will probably just involve some documentation and keeping the lights on until they can get our branches switched to their system. And I have two other devs to try to keep busy as well (or not, I guess we could all bring our Switches to the office or work on some OSS or something if there's nothing to do). Currently I'd like to ask for: -Prorated retention/severance so that 50%(?) of it is paid when the last branch is switched to their system, remainder to be paid at the end of the year -30 days notice for layoff -Obviously as much money as I can get -Get reasonable travel requirements in writing A few people here are under the impression that the commitment from the CEO was a verbal contract and plan to ask for pay through the end of the year even if laid off. Does that have any basis in reality? He stood in our meeting room and told the whole HQ that's what they were going to do. My plan is to argue that as long as they have everything they need from me, it's in their best interest that I walk away on my own so they can stop paying my salary. I've put out feelers for other gigs, and I've got some good leads, but no interviews lined up yet. Though I do have a tentative offer from a guy I used to work with if I'm willing to go independent. But it's going to be tough to walk away from this as long as I can stay sane because the way it's looking after the dust settles this could pretty easily put us over the top for a 20% house down payment for next spring's home buying season. Sorry for the long post, and thanks again for all the help so far.
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Apr 23, 2018 15:28
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