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I'd drop that recruiter and let him know that I'd be telling my network that $recruiter_name and $recruiter_company are people who will only work with you if you let them undermine your negotiating position.
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Oct 27, 2016 17:47
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah I did this as well. I got an $18 allotment every day for lunch, and $30 for dinner if I stayed late. So, I rounded this up to $50/day, multiplied it by 250 workdays to get $12,500, then multiplied by 2 because that's roughly what I'd need to compensate for it in pre-tax dollars if the benefit were going away. The new company did indeed compensate for most of it. Of course, the next time I looked for work, I negotiated based on my new salary even though it was for a company that once again provided meals. No regrets. How would you go about putting a dollar value on something less tangible, like the ability to work 100% remotely? I've thought about an approach like finding the average commute time in my local metro area and then multiplying that vs my consulting rate, but there are more things I find valuable about remote work than just eliminating a commute.
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Oct 27, 2016 20:47
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Ugh, FML. Long story short, I got a job offer for a W2 contract through a staffing agency. In my area, contracts tend to pay less than the salary rate, which I know is backwards from most places. This time they said that there would be a cut on conversion after we agreed on a number. Here's a draft letter I wrote up just now, could I get feedback on it? Cross posted from the IT thread: I'd cut the line which starts with "I recognize that..." - I think it undermines your ask rather than bolstering it. Your area sounds a little crazy. "We want to pay you hourly and therefore we might give you less than 40 hours, but to make up for that, we're going to pay you a lower rate..." should be a non-starter.
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Dec 22, 2016 19:28
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Caustic posted:I thought I might respond with: "I'm looking for a position with a Bay Area competitive salary at the senior level, commensurate with my experience. I'm looking for $XXX". Then, if really pressed to reveal current, say that I'm looking for a %15 increase and that's what $XXX would be? I wouldn't include a number at this point, just reiterate the competitive salary line. If they press, blather about "good fit" or "total compensation". If they really press, directly ask if their intention is to begin a negotiation and, if so, when can you expect to see the rest of the offer?
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Feb 22, 2017 21:39
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Thanks again for this thread. I played a BATNA of "I resign, effective immediately" into an extremely soft exit from the company and support for my new venture.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:07
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Cacafuego posted:This is a good question as my wife and I are debating a possible move from Florida to the SF Bay Area in CA. There's a huge COL difference. My job is working from home and traveling, so essentially it doesn't matter where I work. Should I expect my employer to understand that when I bring up a possible move, or in general do people have to fight for a raise to move to a higher COL area even though I'd be doing the same job? If you're moving to SF of your own volition, you'll have to make an argument. I think most people would tell you no unless you had stellar reasons why they should give you a raise even without moving.
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Mar 11, 2017 05:43
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SEKCobra posted:How do you negotiate a raise if you specifically started with a comparatively low salary? I have no idea how to approach this, since I know the position should get a lot more, but since I got to skip a few career steps inbetween I took a fairly low salary to start. I did that when I changed career tracks as a way of encouraging a company to take a risk on me. In my initial negotiation, I laid out the situation (something like "We both know that the market salary is X, but I'm fine accepting this offer even though it's less than that because I'm an unknown quantity without a track record in this field.") and asked "What performance goals would you need to see me meet over the next three months to feel comfortable paying me X?" and followed that with "Okay, I understand your KPIs are A, B, and C. Will you agree to meet with me in three months for a formal performance review, with the understanding that if I meet or exceed your expectations in these areas, I'll receive a salary adjustment to X?" I'm not sure how I'd initiate that conversation if I'd already accepted an offer without discussing my intentions. Maybe wait a few months and then leverage the experience I've gained in the meantime to interview at other companies until I had an offer at the salary I wanted.
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Mar 29, 2017 11:46
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Are you an independent contractor (ie, your tax document is a 1099, you pay self-employment taxes, etc) or an employee (ie, your tax document is a W2)? I'm not quite sure how to classify what you do. Being able to classify what you do is important because that gives you a basis of comparison with other people. You said that a significant amount of time is spent using Photoshop, so I'm going to suggest that what you do could be called graphic design. If you're truly an independent contractor, look up what other freelance graphic designers in your area are charging their clients, or look at the national average and adjust for your locale. Use that data to support your argument that you deserve more money, given your skill and experience. If you're an hourly employee, then you might want to take the same approach to get a sense of the market for what you do, but realize that you won't be able to ask as much because in a W2 arrangement, your employer is covering employer-side taxes, benefits, etc, which you'd be covering yourself as a contractor. In terms of negotiating tactics, that's going to depend on things like what alternatives you have if your employer refuses to negotiate. (This thread calls this concept BATNA, Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement.)
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May 27, 2017 05:36
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bolind posted:Hello thread, I need advice. It's time for the annual "salary adjustment" in my company. It's the first time for me, as I've only been here a little over a year and it's the first time I'm eligible. Why do you think that 3% is fair? It's basically enough to cover inflation and not much else. You haven't developed any new skills, gotten materially better at your job, or gone above & beyond at any point in the previous year? If you're irritated that they aren't giving you as much of a raise as you think you deserve, that's a fine thing to feel. Start interviewing elsewhere.
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Jun 7, 2017 14:58
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In general, counteroffers are risky. They might be offering you one because they value your skill set and look forward to many years of working together, sure. They might also be offering you because you leaving right now would impact their bottom line and they want to manage you out of the organization on their terms rather than on yours. It's impossible to know for sure, so there's risk and I think the thread consensus is not to accept a counteroffer without a lot of good reasons. The non-compete clause makes "how to do it" too complicated for general advice. You might want to talk to a lawyer.
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Jul 9, 2017 23:58
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C-Euro posted:After hating my job for the last few months I am actually taking action towards getting a new job (starting with a phone call this afternoon, actually!). I haven't had to negotiate for a couple of years and flubbed it badly last time, anyone got any quick guides I can check out on my phone in the next few hours? I doubt we'll talk salary right away but I don't want to be surprised if they do. Don't talk about compensation specifics until an offer's on the table. If they try to press you for a salary number in the initial call, say something like "Right now, I'm more interested in learning if we're a good mutual fit. If we are, I can be flexible with my number." Under no circumstances tell them what you made at your previous job if they ask about salary history. I usually say "I'm sorry, that's confidential" - I've only had one person try to press me further, and I bluntly told him I wasn't going to tell him. Then we laughed it off.
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Jul 18, 2017 20:56
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C-Euro posted:Thanks. I told her I didn't want to talk numbers right now but she claimed that she needed a number for their application form. I stonewalled for a bit and then she said "why don't I just put you down for their maximum for the position?" (which would be a $15k raise) so thanks headhunter lady Good job! "Well then, just put $1, and we can talk about it later" is another way to approach that situation, if you encounter it again in the future.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:56
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And I just heard that they want to interview me so maybe they want me enough to bump that number up?
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Hoodwinker posted:He said the whole reason they do it is because, quote, "We got burned by a guy who we went through the whole interview process with and then quoted a ridiculously high number, wasting our time." That part rubbed me the wrong way because that's not the kind of attitude I loving want from a company that's trying to sell me on them. "Oh. Can I see your company's books, then? I've gotten burned by companies who've gone through the whole interview process with me and then quoted me a ridiculously low number, wasting my time."
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Jul 25, 2017 09:34
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C-Euro posted:I've been talking to two different companies about positions they are trying to fill, and in both cases I was able to deflect naming a number of first. In both cases the HR/"talent acquisition" rep said "well, our budget for the position is $X". Generally speaking, how reliable is that specific language about budgets? Because both "position budgets" are way above what I make now and I wouldn't even push hard to negotiate on the number if offered in either case. I just don't want to psych myself up and have them say "syke, actually it's way less" In my experience (software) it's reliable as an indicator of where the manager will start to negotiate hard. In some companies, it's the number where the manager will start having to go to HR to approve pay grade exceptions.
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Jul 28, 2017 02:38
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Senior engineer is usually an individual contributor role and you have no track record in the field. Why should a company that's bringing you in as a manager start you at anything other than associate? (I'm not asking this to antagonize you or put you down. That's the question you're going to need to answer to get what you want in your negotiation.) Asking for more pay might be reasonable, depending on the details of their offer, your situation, etc. Asking for a performance plan with clearly measurable goals and having a mutual understanding that you'll be promoted if you hit them is a good idea.
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Aug 17, 2017 16:42
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It wouldn't be gauche at all; it would be quite smart. Employers, especially ones with attitudes like you describe, only respect leverage in negotiations. Opening negotiations with another offer in your pocket is just about the best kind of leverage you can get.
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Aug 26, 2017 17:22
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Don't tell them what you're currently making. You wouldn't tell that to any random stranger who asks, would you? The only thing that does is erode your ability to negotiate because the company will blink at offering you more than that plus some percentage that they feel is appropriate. I wouldn't give them a number when they asked for what I wanted to make, either. I'd say that I wanted to make sure that we were a good mutual fit before talking about the compensation specifics. That way, they aren't thinking, "they're good, but are they really $XXX good?" all the way through the interview process. If they forced the issue with something like "give a number right now or we'll hang up on you" (which I doubt any company that doesn't have its workers totally over a barrel would do) then I'd give the absolute top of their range.
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Sep 3, 2017 22:33
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C-Euro posted:Spoke with a recruiter today about some positions in a field that I want to re-enter. She asked me what I was currently making and I gave her a salary range that was included on a previous application that her group received from me. She asked me if I could send a hard number instead, as her clients require it to determine Yes, you're correct to be skeptical. Any number you give can only serve to box you in. Don't lie and give an inflated number -- that's still playing a losing game. You have no idea whether or not the company's willing to pay more than whatever you guess. (For example: how did you come up with current salary + 10% as the number to say? I'm guessing not "painstaking research into your target company's compensation structure and the hiring manager's budget".) For "What are you making now?" questions, say something like "That's confidential information between me and my employer and I won't reveal that information." You wouldn't tell a random stranger on the street how much you make; why are you telling a semi-random stranger who has an explicit interest to use it against you? For "How much are you looking for?" questions, say variations on "At this point, I'm looking to make sure that the company and I are a great fit. If we are, I can be flexible on the number, and I hope you/your client can too." or some other non-committal answer.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:50
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Grump posted:Quick question about bringing up a salary in a final round interview.  "What would you like as a target salary?"  "lol, a million bucks. Are we negotiating an employment offer?"
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Nov 8, 2017 23:33
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Grumpwagon posted:My brother has been contract to hire at a company for 6 months. He's changing fields to a development role. This is his first gig, and they hired him (to the contract) with very little experience. He was given the opportunity to sign on as a normal employee today, but they're offering $65k. He was hoping for $80k. I'd make a case that I'm worth $90k and see what they say. Why surrender $10k without a fight?
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Dec 6, 2017 06:39
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areyoucontagious posted:What happens if I’ve done some research, found the average salary range, and just peg myself at the very top (or just over the top) in terms of experience? Apply and don't state your salary requirements up front. If they ask, say something like "Right now, I'm looking to determine if this is a good fit for me and if I'm a good fit for your company. If we agree that we are, we can discuss compensation at that point." or "Salary is just one part of total compensation, I can't give you a number without knowing all of the other particulars of the deal." or some other polite way of saying you aren't going to talk about it outside of a salary negotiation. If you get through the interview process and they extend an offer, then ask for what you want.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:00
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ImpactVector posted:I found out on Thursday that the company I work for is getting bought out. I wasn't super concerned right away, because one of the stated reasons they decided to buy us was our technology/software (we're a construction-related company, not primarily software), and I'm the person on staff with the longest history working on it. Your future is now in the hands of people who you have no prior relationship with. While you don't know what they plan to do with your company, they certainly do, or they wouldn't have bought you. So I'd be non-trivially concerned, but not panicking. They're offering you money to stay, that means they're interested in keeping you around. They might be doing that so that you can train the team that's going to replace you, so you might as well try to get something out of the deal. Yes, you should try to negotiate the bonus upwards. Not trying to do so is just leaving money on the table.
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Mar 5, 2018 01:25
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A boss did that to me once - same situation, successful project, promotion + raise followed by not giving me the time of day for months on end. I'm pretty sure it was some combination of his indirect and conflict-avoidant personality, fear that if he laid me off it would panic the rest of the staff, and a calculation that another project might come in and he might need my skill set again.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:33
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El Mero Mero posted:Given the "moving is the only reliable modern way to get significant pay increases" perspective here, how long are folks feeling is appropriate to stay in a new position before casting about? My feeling is that a company would drop me the day it became profitable for them to do so, so I'm going to extend them the same courtesy. I don't think there's any obligation to stay for any particular length of time.
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Mar 19, 2018 12:08
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m0therfux0r posted:So my main question here: does this mean they're going to be an awful place to work for? I'm going to do the interview either way, because, hey- practice, but I kind of want to have a game plan before that. I also realize that I may not even be offered a job here, so it may not matter at all. I have a few other interviews in progress, so I could always use this to accelerate those processes if I did get an offer and it didn't seem terrible. The signal that you're getting from them is that they demanded you give them leverage over you before they'd even consider talking to you. My intuition is that they're not going to be a great place to work for. If your current environment is poo poo, they might be a stepping stone out of it. But I wouldn't have high hopes.
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Mar 27, 2018 17:43
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Bonuses can be easier for a company to cough up than salary. It's a one-time outlay of cash (sometimes from an entirely different budget) and doesn't affect internal pay scale dynamics in the same way that salary does.
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Mar 28, 2018 17:34
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Cacafuego posted:Has anyone worked with Lancesoft before? I guess they’re recruiting for a “big pharma” senior role and they contacted me. I’ve been talking to some corporate recruiters for a senior level job, but they all work for the company I’m interviewing with. It depends on the job. Some jobs are full-time and the recruiter's role is to provide a candidate in exchange for a fee, while others are contracting jobs where the recruiter's firm functions as an agency. You'd have to ask the recruiter whether it's full-time or contract. I don't think there's any need to tell them about your interviews with other companies, other than a general "I'm currently interviewing at other companies" if they ask. In my experience, third-party recruiters are pushier about trying to worm salary expectations out of you than in-house recruiters. Provided you haven't started to work with the recruiter, no, there's no way that you'd lose out by applying to the company's job posting directly instead of going through the recruiter. The company might prefer that, in fact, because if you go through the recruiter then the company has to pay them.
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Apr 25, 2018 00:08
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rscott posted:I guess my questions are threefold. Am I being delusional? The labor market is as tight as it's been in my adult life, but I'm 31 and I don't have a college degree. I have a lot of job experience in a lot of different aspects of manufacturing as I've worked my way up to where I am now but I don't have any certifications or "official" training to point to. This is as much money as I've ever made in my life and I've gotten a ~20% raise over the last calendar year. With overtime I'm probably going to gross 55k this year. It seems pretty clear to me at this point that the company wants to use the fact that I've been underpaid in the past to continue to underpay me in the future, no matter how my responsibilities increase. I think your intuition that the company wants to use the fact you've been underpaid in the past to continue to underpay you regardless of increased responsibilities is correct; this is how companies behave, generally. I briefly looked up salaries for Buyers in Omaha, NE, since you mentioned plains states and that was the first metro I thought of. The range on Glassdoor is 44k-84k with an average of 61k, so I don't think your salary ask would be out of line with the market, provided that job is what you would be doing. I'm not an expert in either the field or the locale, though. The thread talks about a concept called BATNA, Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement. Basically, what are your options if the company says they don't want to negotiate with you? (They'll say this in the form of "Company policy says that you're not presently eligible..." or "My hands are tied right now, this isn't a good time..." or something along these lines.) The best form of BATNA is to have another offer in hand, because then your BATNA is "accept this other offer" rather than "well, I guess I keep working for you". If I were in your position, I'd start a job hunt and see what other opportunities are out there and what companies are offering. There's some tactical advice that can help with that -- don't tell anyone what you're currently making, don't talk about salary expectations before the company is extending an offer. That way, you'll have some data about what your alternatives are as well as a better negotiating position.
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Jul 2, 2018 06:58
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Betazoid posted:My boss asked me to start supervising our temps (3-7 of them at any given time), onboarding new ones, giving trainings, managing their assignments, and basically being their boss so he can be the boss of the 7 full-time employees he has (including me). "Team Lead" would be a fine title for that in tech, not sure about your industry. Liaison is too vague, sounds sort of coordinator-ish, not supervisory. Now is the time to ask for a raise, not in April. In April you'll have been doing this work for 7-ish months without a raise, so why should they give you one then? (However, see the thread's advice regarding BATNA - if you say "I want a raise" and they say no, what's your plan?) I wouldn't expect much more than a COL increase in April.
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Sep 19, 2018 01:46
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It's fine. Good things to say in that situation in the future are: "Sorry, but that's proprietary information." "Sorry, I really don't feel comfortable sharing that information at this point. It's confidential information between me and my employer." "I'm not going to tell you that, let's move on." "How much do you loving make, rear end in a top hat?"
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Sep 20, 2018 01:28
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JohnCompany posted:Bit of a more technical issue I'd appreciate guidance on. I got a call yesterday saying I would be offered a job, followed by an email listing the basic terms, e.g.: Negotiate when terms are presented but before you accept. Email is the best way to go about it. It gives you time to write your arguments out, and establishes a paper trail. It also gives you time to consider the counter offer and gives the hiring manager time to wrangle any internal stakeholders they need to get your terms approved.
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Sep 22, 2018 21:35
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I'd want to nail down what it means to "bring them" new business. For example, would you only be compensated if you manage the entire sales process for the prospect, or is a referral to the sales part of the org enough? I don't think you'd need serious lawyering to make it work (though it's good practice to have a lawyer look at any contract you're intending to sign), but you should be completely clear on what everything means without making any assumptions. There is almost no situation where starting your own company would be "less complicated" than being an employee.
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Oct 29, 2018 23:28
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teardrop posted:Just received my first offer. I did poorly on the negotiation, prior to reading this thread. There was some back and forth over the phone, I asked for $72k (I’d like more but it’s an entry level ish role) and they came up to 70 with a 2k 1 time bonus. They said they wanted an answer by Friday. Right to work means you can't be required to join a union as a condition of employment. Your coworkers are probably thinking of at-will employment, which means either party can terminate the work relationship at any time for any reason. That said, I agree with them, the smart thing to do if you want 85+ is to take the new job and keep applying. Thinking about it terms of "lovely" or "monstrous" behavior isn't healthy. You're a businessperson providing business services to businesses; you do this in exchange for money; someone else can pay you better, therefore...
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Nov 5, 2018 23:39
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rscott posted:Also since this is an internal interview, should I bring my resume? Do I dress up in nice clothes or wear what I normally wear (jeans and a company provided shirt)? I know this sounds goony but I've been working here basically my entire adult life and all my other promotions have been much more informal affairs. How do managers at your company dress? Use that to calibrate what you wear - you're trying to give your interviewer the impression that you fit the mold. I'd err on the side of going a step up from that baseline to show respect for the opportunity. (IMO, jeans + company shirt signals employee, not manager, but your company's culture might be different.) Your boss might be able to clue you in on what the budget is/should be for the QA manager role. Otherwise, you could look up the average in your area and use that to determine your ask.
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Jan 16, 2019 03:07
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Suzy Welch's husband is Jack Welch. I'm not shocked that she isn't too concerned about money.
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Feb 8, 2019 18:58
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Yeah, if a company ever said "we think negotiation starts the relationship off on the wrong foot" I would run away as fast as I could. Negotiation is something which happens in healthy relationships between equals. "We think negotiation starts the relationship off on the wrong foot" translates to "we're looking for people who we can take advantage of".
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Feb 10, 2019 06:45
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