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Thread, I'm attempting to negotiate for the first time in my career. I did all I could during the process to not name a range, but I ended up being dumb and naming it. However, I named a range that was higher than my "it's not worth me leaving this job" number. The job I want to take came in at the lowest end of that range, $130k. I think they can do better - they're a big bank. They do have a bonus package, defined as "0-35%" based on annual reviews, paid out annually (not quarterly), and a stock purchase offer that allows you to buy up stock quarterly at its lowest point that quarter, then sell instantly. Those are darn good but they aren't base salary - I've been burned on bonuses plenty of times in my career. The HR guy I've been working with was transparent in that a committee within the business makes the salary determinations; 9 times out of 10 they come in within or above a range named by the candidate, 1 time out of 10 they come in with a lower number. Glassdoor has a few people with my title or similar making higher than that, but realistically $130k isn't that bad. Still, I'm going to take a shot at negotiation. I don't think they'll withdraw the offer if I try, but if I do, I gotta reconcile with the fact that they might not be the best place. Even if they counter, I'll hopefully come away with something. Moreover, they combine PTO and sick time, my current job doesn't. I'm not keen on that - "get sick, no vacation" has always been a lovely practice. I'm doing what I can to draw out the process before I accept/counteroffer. Asked questions on healthcare costs, asked questions about other specifics, etc. I've drafted this as an email to go back to the HR coordinator running the process. Totally open to criticism. quote:Hi John - MJP fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 16:38
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 01:32 |
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Jordan7hm posted:The first paragraph could be worded more strongly, and I don’t think you should include anything about your current salary or health situations. So for the first paragraph, how about something like this: quote:blah blah blah thanks As to the healthcare costs part, I'd replace quote:Also, my wife and I both have our respective medical situations which have involved meeting and exceeding our family deductible annually. Given historical upward trends in healthcare costs and their eventual passing-on to individual participants in health plans, I'd like to be able to account for that going into the role and for the future. with quote:Also, given current historical upward trends in healthcare costs and my share of them in terms of premiums, I'd like to be able to account for costs starting out now and for the future. How's that look? Edit: commenters elsewhere have suggested I remove the parts about the stock purchase thing and healthcare. Would it be best if I just tried to get more salary based on Glassdoor reporting and more PTO based on my current package being better? If I can't justify based on my personal situation for concern of being a whiner/high maintenance employee, thus getting an offer rescinded, I might as well justify based on the actual facts of the situation as best as I can present them. Edit 2: I took the criticism I received and voice mailed/emailed with this: quote:Hi Joe - I just tried you and left a voice mail. I'd like to make a counter-offer. MJP fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 17:01
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They ended up not budging on either - the guy called me back, offer's firm and final. In the balance it was still a role, salary, and benefit set that I wanted, so I accepted. Thanks for the advice, it was worth a shot!
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Aug 21, 2019 18:48
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Fortunately the lowest end of my range was more than I'd have settled for to get out of the job. In the past whenever I tried to evade naming the range, they dropped me from consideration. Here's hoping I don't have to do that dance again for a long time.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:40
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I got an offer on a position that would be a pretty nice move - same thing I'm doing now but for a healthcare nonprofit. Similar responsibilities, not an international financial institution, etc. Salary's a bump up. Hours are around the same. The offer included a sign-on bonus. The catch here is that my current job has bonus season coming up in Feb, and my current job bonus is 18-35% New job's sign-on bonus doesn't really come close to that. What's the best way to ask for a sign-on bonus commensurate to what I'd get at the current job? I still have currentjob's offer letter that spells out the bonus, but I've never been in this position before.
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Jan 12, 2021 02:57
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My wife's bosses are talking with her about a promotion. It's something she'd definitely be OK doing. A call is scheduled to discuss the particulars. Compensation changes haven't been mentioned specifically, but she did say that they "weren't going to ask her take on more responsibilities without the right compensation." She was a bit underpaid with her skill set, but she likes the workplace and people. Also, she has a medical condition and can't really drive out of town or do long/chaotic train commutes. Pre-rona, the office was a 10 minute in-town commute. As of now, they are remote through at least July, and nobody knows whether it'll return to butts-in-seats. Previously they were pretty lousy with letting people work remote. What should we do for negotiating the compensation change? Her role doing retail data analysis and reporting is an oddball in that it involves a fair bit of programming/coding, so it'd be tricky to find salary ranges in comparable industries. Also we're in northern NJ so cost of living changes things up. The only thing I could think of is to look for other retailers in similar size with her function in the metro area, and do our best to look for comparable titles or responsibilities. Then there's the question of what to do if the compensation increase doesn't really do much. I don't think she'd refuse the promotion for insufficient salary bump, nor would she want to leave just yet.
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Jan 27, 2021 14:55
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Why would you limit your search to retailers? It sounds like she has broadly applicable data skills and a lot of those jobs are remote anyway at this point. I don't think your salary benchmarks are going to be that difficult and you're making up numbers anyway at some level, so don't sweat that too much. She's been doing reporting/analytics/etc. for things that are fairly specific to retail - forecasting price markdowns, who gets laid off (fortunately she moved off of the team that did that a year or two back, no more building lasers for the Death Star), etc. She's built up the skill set and seems pretty interested in it, but I didn't specify retail only when futzing through Glassdoor. We've tried poking around with similar titles - data analyst, retail analyst, %softwarename% analyst, etc. I wish Glassdoor had a way of searching through jobs that deal with specific terms - SQL reporting for Excel, %softwarename% dashboard creation, VBA macro stuff, etc. Her title gives so little and "SQL analyst" could mean anything. She won't have direct reports, but she'd be training and sorta team-leading people who do her job. Her bosses want her to move up from a player to a coach is how she puts it.
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Jan 27, 2021 16:48
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FWIW they offered a 20% salary bump. We both think she was a bit undercompensated to begin with, but it's more of a technical coach - e.g. how to build reports, query data sources, deal with the retail buyers, etc. It also involves a little more hands-off on things she didn't want to do. She's been getting all the details, and I trust her take on things - she's not going to be a process or product owner or such. As for comp research, is there a better method than "search Glassdoor for data analyst salaries" or "browse Glassdoor for similar-sized companies and any listed salaries" to use? It's easier for me since IT involves fairly specific keywords and titles in some of the stuff I've done, but we've never looked for something so nonspecific before. Happy to get the full post when you're willing and able.
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Jan 27, 2021 17:32
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OK, I think the fault is me here - by coaching I meant "coaching how to get your VBA in Excel to stop calculating percentages above 100%, and definitely not 1,000,000,000% due to a glitch in the raw data provider" and not "how to meet your metrics and be a good corporate soldier" Further crunching on those titles puts the new salary into a better spot - we'll still sleep on it but might try to get some extra PTO if there's any residual uncertainty about the bucks.
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Jan 27, 2021 23:29
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:please don't attempt to illegibly import an animal in to a foreign country. It goes very poorly. Yes, agreed - the cat should really be typed.
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Mar 3, 2021 02:28
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Any pointers in negotiation for lateral internal transfers in big companies? I'm interviewing for a role that's a bit of a career change, and I know for a fact it's one rank down from my current salary. Different boss, same team.
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Mar 19, 2021 18:26
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Negoontiation thread, I could use a pointer maybe. I got an offer for a job that I would like to do. It is a significant pay bump. Benefits, team culture, the stuff I'd do, hybrid arrangement in mid-September (tolerable, but doable). I'd happily say yes to it. Benefits line up nicely with where I'm at. My current role has a pretty good annual bonus that paid out even during 'rona. I'd be leaving halfway through the year, so I'd be forfeiting a good chunk of change. I asked %newplace% about the possibility of a sign-on bonus - they said they don't do it for anyone. %newjob% gives 35 days PTO (yeah, it includes sick days/bereavement/etc.) which does beat out my current 20 days. Also, it's not the dinosauric bureaucracy and set-up-to-fail situation that I'm in - last man standing, everyone else in my team quit. Help is on the way in the form of a 3-month contractor but nothing on a permanent fill. Their BATNA: they go to the next candidate down the line My BATNA: If I pass, I'll still be in my current situation, open to being hired elsewhere or trying to transfer internally I'm about 70% leaning towards taking the offer - is there anything else I should be angling for here? I don't think they'd give more PTO since they're way above average for a US employer. edit: BTW, the OP speaks truth, way early in the process they asked my expectations, and I basically had this happen [img]https://i.imgur.com/AgrHXMa.png[/timg] The offer is $10k over the top end, heck yes MJP fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 22:31
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Zarin posted:If they won't do a sign-on bonus, do they have a bonus structure of their own? Is THAT negotiable? (If they don't have one, can you get one added? If they do have one, can you ask for a few extra percent?) There's a bonus structure. The recruiter/HR contact's words: "bonuses are discretionary and merit based. There isn’t a set range." Performance evaluations do get laid out on four factors that they just made clear to me. Honestly, it's in advertising, I don't see them pulling the "sorry but we aren't doing bonuses next year" crap like previous jobs have. The usual pro rata "you have a 3 month probationary period and that means only 3 months of 2021 are bonus eligible, too bad so sad" can always apply - hence distrusting bonuses - but my 1.5 beer lightweight rear end keeps on thinking I should take it. I think I'd like the place, at least more than my current one for sure.
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Jun 3, 2021 23:21
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 01:32 |
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Baggins posted:Even if the bonus amount is large enough that you'd lose out in the first year, consider the increase in base pay over time. You're likely to stay in any new role for 2-3 years. so factor in that amount as well. Vibes were good. I don't think I'll get away with 100% remote, 8-4, hard stop logged off at 4:01 PM, zero after-hours anymore, but it was nice while it lasted. I'm sleeping on it but unless I wake up with bad mojo I'm going to tell them I'm in. They were totally OK with me starting in July, which means I get the Q2 ESPP vesting and technicality'd into one month of healthcare paid by oldjob. Newjob picks up on 8/1. No gap BS.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:51
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