The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

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downout: Jul 6, 2009

Lockback posted:

ok, so I think your perspective on the industry is kinda skewed, as I wouldn't bucket people differently between "20 years" vs "30-40 year" of experience. At that point, you have the skills or not. I'm not looking at a 45 year old saying "Man, this dude will be great once he gets more time under his belt". You can obviously still grow in any role at any age, but it's not like you have to have coded during the Reagan Administration to qualify for a job.

There's also FAANG(MANGA) and everything else. If that's your target, right now is a BAD time but more power to you. But, the advice for those jobs are very different than any other job, there is a specific skillset you need to hone and you don't do it with office experience. There are others who are much better at walking you through that in the CoC sub-forum. But someone with 4-8 years experience can pull 500k+ there if they have the right skills, but for every person who gets that job there are 10, 20, 50 who don't.

Then you have "Game Industry" vs "Everything Else", which is much closer together but still some differences. And honestly, the last 6-10 years they've been getting closer and closer. Still, all things equal, leaving the games industry means somewhat more money, better working conditions, and generally more stable job. Lots of caveats there but I feel pretty good about that. And yes, I think Mobile is probably better than most other game industries. But for "Boring Job" If you have 20+ years of experience (and you are actually good, say Upper-end Senior/Architect/Staff-level) your targets should probably start at ~$150k-$200k and go up (multiply that if you're in the Bay area, or a smaller but still significant multiple if you're in high demand cities) plus some kind of Equity/Stock structure that can be anywhere from 20% to double that salary. From what I understand the game industry is usually less, but the skills and roles are very similar.

I'd get it out of your head that when you get to your 50s or 60s then high paying jobs start coming up. If your at the level you say you are, you are in your highest-paying phase.

What do you recommend as the skillset that is different from office experience? Is this a different skillset than other corporations, or do you mean an engineering skillset?

# ¿ Mar 20, 2023 21:49

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 13:41

downout: Jul 6, 2009

Lockback posted:

Being able to crush leetcode questions, solve very specific architecture questions in an interview setting, and have experience with potentially very specific tools/technologies that you will almost certainly have to learn on your own.

You probably still need the regular experience to get noticed, but that's not what gets you through the interview.

Ah I was misunderstanding, thanks for clarifying.

I'm pretty certain I could have done this, but the opportunity came to move into management. I don't know what management interviews are like compared to the dev leetcode hoops, etc. I need to get one scheduled to see how it differs.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2023 03:25

downout: Jul 6, 2009

Lockback posted:

I think it differs a lot depending on the area, but the 2 people I know who went into Amazon management said it was very, very technical.

That's good to know, becoming more proficient on the architecture side sounds like time well spent for me.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2023 05:29

downout: Jul 6, 2009

Baddog posted:

Hey, you all up for me trying to get this thread signal boosted in pragmatics "check these threads out" announcement?

I admit I haven't kept up with this thread lately, just trying to get a quick read on things before making the suggestion, because I do think learning how to push a bit is such a huge benefit to folks.

This thread is the best :five:

on the forums. If I'd found this 10 years ago instead of about 6, then I'd probably be making 20 - 40% more. Anything that boosts this thread is nothing but benefits for the entire forum.

Semi-related, I finally got to see pay grades. I thought I was doing great on my negotiating and found out that I probably left 30% on the table. Never don't negotiate.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2023 03:52

downout: Jul 6, 2009

New Leaf posted:

Project Manager means different things at different places I've found. It's more just a title here, I didn't deal with any financials or negotiating, only documentation gathering, engineering scheduling, tracking milestones, etc. Realistically it would be anyone else's Project Coordinator that I got promoted out of. I'm working on my PMP slowly.

I'm on mobile so can't look at everything right now but I appreciate everyone's advice so far!

Edit: I did want to say that I'm 99% sure this will stay 3 in/2 out because it came up multiple times during the interview process, including the round meeting with the team. Plus, my wife's aunt works for the same organization in a different capacity and that's been her schedule for years.

And yeah, the previous job is tenuous, all of telecom is. What happened was AT&T - our major client - decided to stop all work for the foreseeable future back in June 2023 and blindsided us. We knew it was temporary but days turned into weeks, then months.. So they did 3 rounds of layoffs. At the end of 2023 AT&T decided to ramp back up, they changed equipment vendors and were ready to swap all their old equipment out for the new company and promised all this work out til 2026. So now my old firm is hot and ready to go and wants me back all of a sudden after kicking me to the curb before. I'm just afraid we're another upset away from shutdown again, which is why I want out.

I'm just apprehensive about asking the bank for more because they know they're taking a gamble on me, but I am willing to ask for more due to the commute. I don't hate commuting honestly! I listen to a lot of podcasts on the road. I know the route well - I worked near this place for years - and it flows well most days unless there's an accident.

When I asked the old job if they'd sweeten the pot since they ruined my 2023 they were basically just like "unfortunately no, this is the offer."

I'd take the old job and then immediately start looking for a new job. Your resume will say employer "Project Manager XXX corp 202X - 2024". From that I'd start immediately start looking for a new job that pays what you should probably make which is more like 100k. And now that is 10x easier because you are an awesome PM, currently employed.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2024 06:47

downout: Jul 6, 2009

broken pixel posted:

It's extremely on par with every contract rate I've seen for similar roles, experience, and expectations, but if there's a good resource for citing contract rates, I'm all for it. Considering this is a short contract, I can set up better rates in future negotiations.

I'm in the U.S. Valid point on any counter offer�I will do that.

Nah, I wouldn't expect insurance from a 1099 contract. I've budgeted through everything for now and I should be clear, even if the rate is considered low nationally. Cost of living here is, uh... rock bottom.

My COL isn't high and I was getting 25% more in 2020.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2024 03:32

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 13:41

downout: Jul 6, 2009

Jumpsuit posted:

I've been recruiting internally for an 18-month parental leave contract in my team and offered the role to an outstanding junior candidate who was on a 4-month contract elsewhere in the organisation. At the same time she was also offered a similar length contract role in another team alongside mine, so used that leverage with me to get to the top of the salary band.

Then she went to her manager with offer in hand to resign, and her manager counter-offered her permanency and the same top-of-band salary to stay in that role. Permanency won out, so she's staying put. Proud of her for getting what she needed but drat I am devastated at a) losing her and b) having to go through recruitment hell again.

That is rough, but good for the candidate. Them negotiating that well just validates the decision!

# ¿ Apr 18, 2024 04:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

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