- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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Got offers from both the places I applied to. Both are neutral if not worse compensation than what I have right now (and it's not like I'm absurdly over paid here...). Really goes to show the impact of the recession environment and the mass layoffs that have been going on this year and last.
Not sure what the strategy should be here other than to point out that I have a mortgage to pay and during an inflation crisis that is already making life miserable, it would be challenging to take a position for less income than what I'm currently earning.
It's a no-win situation unfortunately. But that's how its gone for me recently as well.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:50
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Jun 1, 2024 09:23
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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Hey Goons, I've graduated from the "resume and interview" thread and now need negotiation help. I basically got 2 offers on Friday. One was an offer to return to a job I was laid off from in July as their source of work came back. Same pay as before, no room to negotiate. My previous role was as a telecom engineering PM. Our main client stopped all work in June 2023, and right after July 4 they laid off 20% of my department. The client came back and has promised work out through 2026 at minimum, and then - who the gently caress knows, more layoffs I guess? I should get out of telecom, but I've done it for almost 12 years now. The other offer is a completely different career path working at the IT/data center of a large bank in a project coordinator/administrative capacity.
My previous job was making somewhere around $63k, after a few 3.27% raises I was never exactly sure what the number actually was. This was my comfort zone niche that I've done for over a decade. They've offered me my position back at my old pay, full stop, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, take it or leave it. "Unlimited" PTO, I know its a scam but whatever, it is what it is. Fully remote so no wear and tear on a car, I loved my coworkers and still keep in touch with almost all of them and my old boss was the greatest and has been fully transparent about the process and is fighting for me but understands my plight at this point but her hands are tied. She won't begrudge me if I go with the other option. She cried on the Zoom call when she let me go the first time because it was totally out of her hands and we were tight.
The offer from the bank job is $62k. I think on the listing the salary range was $60k-$65k? 3 days in office, 2 days out. Commute is ~30 mins one way under ideal circumstances. 4 weeks of PTO, which is very solid. Lots of good benefits and perks, including 16 hours paid "school function" time for parent-teacher meetings, school events, etc (which is great because we have an elementary school kid and their school likes to do events during the day), health & wellness reimbursements, discount plans. Cafeteria in the building. But this is uncharted waters for me. I might totally suck at it! I'm scared.
What is a reasonable counter? Is $70k too much to ask for? I'm going from barely touching my car in the last 3 years to a weekly commute so I feel like I need something for that at least. I would take the job as-is, I've been out of work since July, but I fee like you're "supposed" to counter with something. I know they said $65 max on the listing, but even if $70 is ridiculous, it gives them room to come back, right?
I wouldn't go back to the old job, sounds like a dead end and they don't sound like they value you very highly. If you ask for 70 at the new place, they'll either give you 65 or tell you to pound sand. I feel like you don't have tons of leverage, partly because I don't think the other offer is significant beyond being able to say you have one.
Just say, "I'd be happy to accept a position at 70."
5k over is not ridiculous. Though it's not likely they'll capitulate fully. I've typically seen a response to a counter being the midpoint.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:03
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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Austin housing prices also shot up a lot from where they were 5 years ago. So they could be miscalibrating on old rates as well. IME in Austin there's a bipartite distribution of tech employers where some pay well and some are absolutely abysmal. The older the employer the more likely it seems they're under, so it feels like a lot of places haven't recalibrate again recently or are fine chasing the middle/bottom of the market.
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Jan 9, 2024 15:18
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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Not sure where to put this, but my wife has a meeting with the hiring managers boss on Tuesday, and this came up in conversation
So, we are, ugh, middle aged, I guess. 40. More or less. Old.
My wife has had a wildly successful career in management, due to, not sure why. Anyways
What's the over/under on taking an important new job, but knowing you might be pregnant? I say might because things are always pretty hairy north of 35, and especially north of 38.
As a non management person, it's on management to deal with it when you get pregnant. What is the prevailing wisdom on a manager joining the team knowing they're pregnant?
This would be... A pretty huge step up for her career, probably a 30% raise if she got the offer. She would need to take maternity leave within 8 months(?) of joining the company. Curious what the hive mind thinks about this kind of thing.
Current job is meh, been there almost 3 years but pay and career is mostly sideways for the next 5+ years due to a massive reorg.
Does she tell big boss about the pregnancy, or do we wait and see, and also see about the job offer? The new company is doing pretty good and are probably pretty family friendly, but the new job would be game changing for her and a big step up.
Any and all feedback welcome.
secure the bag.
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Feb 12, 2024 14:23
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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I don't think that's abnormal. I don't think we disclose our benefits until an offer. It's part of the offer itself, just like the salary.
Not specifically directed at you, but "bennies" makes my skin crawl. It's big time HR drone language. Just say benefits like a normal person.
i had one that refused to disclose benefits with the rest of the offer once
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Feb 15, 2024 15:51
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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I had that too. "You get that when you sign the contract". Uh... no, thanks.
On the other hand a recent interview started out by listing all the benefits available and advising me on how to maximise them from day one. That was kind of nice.
yeah i thanked one recently thay put the benefits info up front on the first interview. later declined when their range was capped at 30% market.
but getting the benefits up front was nice (tho they werent anything special)
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Feb 15, 2024 20:13
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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401k match is at least relatively easy to convert to a salary difference. your lovely 401k match just means i expect a larger base, accounting for taxes etc.
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Feb 16, 2024 09:26
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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Corporate HR don't make decisions at that level. They just enforce them.
they also claim ownership for making them despite not making them to provide cover
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Feb 21, 2024 14:46
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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So which one of the people from your avatar did you stare them down as?
im going to guess chloe
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Mar 6, 2024 14:37
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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I have two questions, but first: shoutout to this thread for giving me the courage to negotiate in the past. I’ve had a 100% success rate negotiating so far. It’s kinda incredible to have companies interested in my skills and offer nice benefits and fully remote work. Thanks for helping me crawl out of the family poverty ditch!
I’m mid-interviewing with a company that seems deeply interested in my skillset right now (in this economy, no less, holy poo poo), and barring unexpected circumstances, I think I’ll get an offer. At the very least, it has me thinking about how I’d handle an offer.
1. When a startup that’s survived for almost 10 years gives you an offer on the high end of a salary range, what’s the protocol for negotiating? Since I kept talking after I heard the range, I’m thinking I can’t push past the cap. It’s a great range for me (15-35% over my last job), but I want to get what I can.
2. I have yet to work somewhere that has given me a raise since retail, and I’m tired of it. Is it possible to lean on a company during the offer period to provide a clear path to salary revaluation? Even something to secure yearly cost of living increases would make a difference. I can’t tell what’s appropriate to ask for here.
1. you can try going a little over base, but its usually easier to get other perks even if they net the same [conference/hotel budget/flight budget, learning budget, internet/phone paid, etc]
2. anything you get here isnt worth much. "we reviewed your salary and it still looks near top of market!"
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Mar 23, 2024 02:32
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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I was job hunting last year and did a few rounds of interviews with one company who ultimately passed on me. They said they liked me and though I had experience in the role, they wanted someone with more specific knowledge about their particular field. They said they would keep me in mind if anything else in that department opened up. Shortly after, I found a new job.
This week, that company reached out to say there was another position in that department open and they thought of me. I'm happy in my new role and have only been in it 10 months, so I'm not really looking to leave. In addition, the new role had a pay bump and hiring bonus (that would have to be repaid if I leave within 2 years), so it would take a much better offer to get me to leave now than a year ago.
If I'm really not interested in leaving, what's the right move here? Politely decline and ask them to keep me in mind for roles 3-5 years down the line? Interview anyway to hear more about the position and maybe change my mind? Try to get an offer and use that as leverage during raise negotiation at my current job?
Honestly I'm not used to companies actually following through when they say "we'll keep you in mind" and I kind of want to give positive reinforcement for that.
see if the role/number they have is within your "big enough" category
promoting up/out and a fat signing bonus should cover your reservations
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Mar 23, 2024 05:51
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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I put some stuff in the corporate thread about this pertaining to the actual process, but I don't want to poo poo up the non-negotiation thread with negotiation stuff. I'm not really asking any questions here, just opening myself up to critique and gunfire to make sure I'm taking the right approach. Or maybe I will ask questions. I don't know. I'm flying blind into this post.
Full story here. Short story: I emailed a company I had a previous relationship with (didn't work for them, I worked tech support in a consultancy that had them as a client) asking about opportunities in the space. In the 3 months since then we've discussed what the role could be and in a 45 minute call (not an interview, just a chat about what we both want) they asked what my salary expectations are.
I'm completely fine with sharing numbers. I'm in Canada so all values are CAD.
In the consultancy I started at $55k (in 2021 this seemed pretty good - and it was my first tech job). By the time I left I was at $62k. Current job hired me at $68k and union-mandated raises put me at just north of $73k (as of next week - $71 right now).
When I had the chat with the IT director at the new prospect, I was not expecting any questions about salary and was completely unprepared for it - I wasn't even really sure we were talking about a job! I really thought he might just hook me up with somewhere else. So I said $76k - $83k. The director quite candidly told me that this was a lot lower than he was expecting to hear, gave me a short spiel about how the company pays people what they're worth etc etc. Some people in the corporate thread pointed out I can and probably should ask for more when it comes to the formal interview.
SO what do we think? In a quick informal chat I seriously lowballed myself, and got gently chastised in corporate speak to the effect of "that's a bit low". Should a formal interview + ask come along, am I good to adjust that ask to something more reasonable? Probably like $85 - $90? I pretty much have the upper hand already because the work I did for them before was stellar ( ) and they've been left high and dry by my absence.
If I CAN ask for more - how do you approach that? I said in the previous chat I'm okay with peanuts, and all of a sudden I'm asking for walnuts? Wtf I'm allergic to both of those anyway!
you dont know what youre worth. ask them what they want to pay. they already told you it'd be more than what you asked.
dont say a number first.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:31
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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I mean, poo poo, the reality is I wanted to bail at 3 years on the previous company, but the structure of the startup shifted too much to accommodate things like “design.” I’d much rather end up in the middle of a large corporate mass in the long run, but now I’m stuck at 2 years experience, just under expectations for most large company roles. Not like that’s stopped me from applying to 3+ years experience jobs, but still.
Sorry about derailing the negotiations thread, oops
lol you shouldnt feel bad about applying to 3 YOE req's with 0-1 YOE
job req's are wish lists, not a pass/fail bar. if you meet literally all of them, you're likely applying below your level
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Mar 28, 2024 22:08
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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OP should just look for a new role. I'd be surprised if they couldnt find 20-30% more if their current place is quibbling over $100.
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Mar 29, 2024 13:49
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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"I'd be happy to sign at $x with a start date of Y.
Regards,
-LK"
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Apr 4, 2024 13:35
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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If you can get a four day work week I don’t know that I would give that up for any amount of money once I’d cleared $100k.
depends on the place. i know at least one thats very vocal about 4 days in recruiting mats, but is closer to 996 in practice
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Apr 12, 2024 16:04
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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Saying I lie more than sales is a new goddamn low.
you _are_ paid to be the bad guy
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Apr 25, 2024 03:55
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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I work for a small animal hospital that was privately owned until June of last year when it was bought by two of the associate veterinarians with backing from a corp that owns about 30 other hospitals. We had all been underpaid, and understaffed so part of the purchase was raises for existing staff and the hiring of new staff.
At the time, I was very happy with my bump - I was promoted to lead tech, and got a 20 percent raise. I just found out though that one of the new hires at the time, who exaggerated her credentials, is making more than me. This is a person who technically works below me (lead tech is in fairness not like, a super prestigious title at a small hospital), and isn't licensed like I am, despite saying she was. I've also been with the hospital since it opened.
A) Literally until the second I found that out, I was quite happy with my pay, and feel I am well compensated for what I do
B) I technically shouldn't know what she makes, and have always sort of had the philosophy that I don't wanna know what other people make, or let them know what I make.
C) I'm annoyed, but not enough to leave a job that I like with clients and coworkers that I like.
D) This is, like I said, a small hospital. I have drinks with the office manager and head doctor most nights, so I feel extraordinarily awkward talking money with them, versus some giant faceless corporation.
I feel like, on paper, I'm right to feel raw about this, but I have no clue how to approach it as I'm not willing to walk over it, and am ultimately happy, but man, this has been a huge shift in how valued I feel, and it's fairly demoralizing. Do I mention it ahead of my yearly review? Let it go, since I was previously satisfied with my pay?
find another job paying more than the other person makes.
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May 1, 2024 02:54
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Jun 1, 2024 09:23
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- leper khan
- Dec 28, 2010
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Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
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All fair points, I appreciate everyone's input. I think I was secretly hoping someone would tell me there was a certain way to loudly sigh that would inform them that I need to be paid more without an uncomfortable conversation. I think my current plan is gonna be essentially this:
But with much less confidence.
yes, there is. the phrase is, "i have received an outside offer and am considering taking it. i enjoy working here, but would need to make at least $X to stay."
then you leave if they dont give it to you
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May 1, 2024 13:54
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Dec 16, 2023 00:50
the range is firm
so are my requirements, is there another role that would be a better fit?
if it will cause you problems getting next job IMO
