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How do you negotiate a raise if you specifically started with a comparatively low salary? I have no idea how to approach this, since I know the position should get a lot more, but since I got to skip a few career steps inbetween I took a fairly low salary to start.
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Mar 29, 2017 10:33
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fantastic in plastic posted:I did that when I changed career tracks as a way of encouraging a company to take a risk on me. Actually I did bring it up during the salary negotiations that I'm fine taking below market rate, but I didn't actually discuss a upgrade path.
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Mar 29, 2017 11:51
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Gin_Rummy posted:I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. If I recall correctly, the application had me put my current supervisor's name and contact info, not HR. But either way, our HR rep here is pretty untrustworthy and I'm not sure I would trust her to not say anything to my boss. She has no reason not to tell your boss, it's not confidential that you are leaving.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:16
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Im Ready for DEATH posted:I want to tell you guys my tale of horror which is currently unfolding. The VP of a company reached out to me about a job opportunity, which I interviewed for, twice. I got an offer. But the offer was low on specifics. It told the annual salary but didn't give much in the way of other benefits at all. I reached out with a list of questions like "what's your 401k", etc. Still, I felt that I had an offer so it was ok to give my two weeks notice to my current employer. Alarms should be ringing in your head now. My current employer is working hard to replace my position and I haven't heard back from the new employer. I've called, texted, emailed. I have left time in between each call and email so it didn't look desperate but the fact is, at this point I am. I'm going to have to beg to get back my old job if this guy doesn't get back to me. I cannot stand employers "ghosting" you. It is so unbelievably rude. But also I made a terrible decision and it may or may not come back to gently caress me. How definitive was the offer? They might have found another candidate more willing to accept. My policy has always been to not consider an offer anything more than hot air until the contract is signed.
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Jul 27, 2017 07:28
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So my company is getting a major restructure and my team lead is finally becoming an official manager. Considering my next review is gonna be by him, any tips on negotiating? I was planning on getting a pretty large raise after entering the role a bit below market. I just feel like this might have gotten even more complicated than it already was 
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Nov 27, 2017 23:41
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Negotiate for x now and build a clause for more when you get your degree?
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Mar 21, 2018 17:23
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m0therfux0r posted:Dunno if it's the same for Switzerland, but there have been multiple times where I've seen people I worked with be promised a higher salary when they complete [x] undergrad/grad degree and then it mysteriously "not being able to happen" or "bad timing" when they actually complete their program. Then you don't want to work there anyway, and usually this doesn't happen if you are the one building that clause. You can also put it in the contract.
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Mar 21, 2018 18:23
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I'm going for an interview for a job I don't really intend to take. I am fairly sure that they will never offer (significantly) more than the publically posted salary, which is way below what I make now. I want to be upfront about the fact that I have no interest in the job if they don't match my current pay, but obviously I don't want to give that. I am interested in the job, but I am happy with my current job and have no reason to switch, especially with a paycut.
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May 3, 2018 19:42
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Eric the Mauve posted:Practice interview. Yeah that's mostly why I'm doing it, I figured interviewing with a clear goal to overshoot would be an interesting experience. Really, I don't even know what I'd do if they do offer me the job at a decent salary, no matter how unlikely it is.
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May 3, 2018 20:09
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Since my current job, which has decent work/life balance and a great commute keeps restructuring (and my manager is being replaced by an as of yet undetermined outsider) I started considering a move. I am also underpaid for what I do by quite some margin, and they keep putting off any customary negotiation opportunity. I am now interviewing for a job that has my 'want' price as the absolute minimum, but a somewhat shittier commute (gotta pass a backed up bridge at rush hour every day). I'd like to know how some of you would value this in respect to a very significant pay increase (~26% if I were to take the minimum)?
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Dec 19, 2018 16:19
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I have started negotiations by putting a meeting on my bosses calendar. He already came by and told me he's never been asked to negotiate that way, people usually just come into his office and say they want more money. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
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Sep 10, 2019 10:01
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Got my current job to increase my salary by ~20%, also requested a change of my status (there are legally mandated "levels") and my boss said he doesn't think it applies to me. Showed him the definitions and he didn't have much argument left, but still said he wasn't really sure he could change it and he wanted to take a week to consider it. Did I do well not taking the offer of the higher level's salary without the actual change, or should I just have taken the money? The only real perk to being in the higher tier is a large (legally mandated) salary increase in 4 years. He clearly indicated we would sign the papers on the salary increase immediately if I dropped the level change request. I know no one else in my company is in the higher level, only managers are in there at the moment. But by definition it applies to specialized technicians as well. Anyway, if he decides that it's a no go, I'll just take the money and negotiate the increase in 4 years I guess.
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Oct 8, 2019 12:41
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The increase is a 800€ paybump after 4 years in addition to the raise I'm getting now you guys
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Oct 8, 2019 14:40
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Again, I'm getting a pay bump right now, this is just a guaranteed payrise in 4 years without me doing anything. Also it's € 800 monthly, which is a pretty substantial raise here.
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Oct 8, 2019 15:56
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SEKCobra posted:Again, I'm getting a pay bump right now, this is just a guaranteed payrise in 4 years without me doing anything. Also it's € 800 monthly, which is a pretty substantial raise here. For reference, the sum I'd be getting in 4 years is more than people with 30 years on the job make.
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Oct 8, 2019 15:57
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Maybe I'm being silly or the concept of legally mandated wages is foreign to you guys, I really can't tell. Basically, the unions barter a wage agreement. It's a minimum wage for each industry, as well as a lot of other benefits (or not) above the minimum standard set by the law. All companies are bound by this contract and can not underbid it. Within IT, there's several levels, depending on your qualification you get sorted into these levels and have a higher (or lower) minimum wage that is actually already pretty decent pay. It's why a lot of companies try to qualify as different industries with laxer collective agreements and lower minimum wage (for example, the biggest ISP in my area is a cable company and adheres to cable tech minimum wage). As I've said, I just negotiated a decent paybump that I am very happy with, I was already shopping around before that and could have gotten a bit more money, but the work life balance and my general happiness at my current company is very good, which gives me very little incentive to switch jobs for just a little more money. As I have come up far closer to my max with these negotiations, I have absolutely no reason to look for a new job. All I'm trying to do now is get assigned a higher minimum wage group, because it has the additional benefit of automatically giving me more money over time in case there is any sort of change in leadership or other reason negotiations would fail in the future.
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Oct 8, 2019 18:52
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Goodpancakes posted:It's an American capitalist hell scape perspective. Can you just be fired from your job? Can your boss just walk into your office and terminated your position? Yeah, but it's 3 months notice.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:12
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Droo posted:In the US it's basically the norm for someone to be making $50k, ask for a 20% raise and be told it's ridiculous/impossible, and then go out and interview and find a job paying $125k. This is especially true now for certain kinds of jobs because there are significant job skill shortfalls in things like programming. It has something weird to do with personal greed and resentment and idiocy, I dunno why people are like that here. IDK, I got my 20% raiseby playing hardball, I'm happy. Really, by shifting the negotiation towards the level change, I made the money raise even firmer for myself, because we pretty much immediately stopped negotiating that.
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Oct 8, 2019 19:15
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IDK my company lost half the tech force a few months ago and I consider that decent BATNA. I am one of two people with all the tribal knowledge left at the company. I have tons of offers at similar levels of what I just got raised to and I still just went in and said I want to be payed a more appropriate amount for my role. At no point did I imply or suggest that I would leave if not paid more, the CEO clearly indicated from the start that they wanted to pay me more, it was just a question of how much. Maybe you don't consider this negotiating, but around here it's perfectly normal to review your salary every year and make a case for how much it should be. Index is adjusted automatically (usually same as inflation).
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Oct 8, 2019 21:31
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My understanding is that a negotiation aimed at reaching an amicable agreement for both parties. My boss wouldn't have payed me more by himself and would have given me a smaller raise without me advocating for myself. If this wasn't a negotiation I guess I'm sorry for bothering you guys.
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Oct 9, 2019 06:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:What would you have done, for instance, if your boss told you to kick rocks? Taken a new job 🤫
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Oct 9, 2019 22:39
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So I declined an interview invitation saying I decided moving wasn't for me and they came back saying I have good a good chance of getting the job (government job) and what my reason for not moving is. That's really unexpected, but I'd still be taking a paycut and moving to a more expensive city. Only offset is the fact that it's a really interesting position and jobs in the public sector are extremely stable.
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Oct 18, 2019 09:17
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You will never be indispensable, get a new offer from a different employer.
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Oct 29, 2019 13:28
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The thing is, when you get the guy that does it for less, you more often than not also get the guy who is less qualified. Sure, it's not always trie, but highly qualified people usually realise their worth at some point and will get snatched up by companies that actually need quality.
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Dec 10, 2019 07:56
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Ultimate Mango posted:I was negotiating my position to post more content in the thread. I accept your terms. How much more content are you looking to make? Please be specific, I need a number to give to HR!
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Mar 6, 2020 08:36
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Someone yell at me for naming a number. The HR person pressed me on it, I deflected at first but she insisted on getting a range and I wasn't prepared for that after having spent my 'pay me what I'm worth' and 'I am expecting a market rate' arguments. What would have been a good way to handle this? I just gave them a very high range, so if they make an offer it would still be decent enough.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:46
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Eric the Mauve posted:I assume you're desperate for a different job and so don't consider telling her to gently caress off and hanging up to be a viable option. So yeah, take the number you'd happily (not grimacingly) accept and add about 30% and say that. I'm not desperate, in fact I barely care. I am pretty sure giving numbers is even more expected here than it is in rhe US. fourwood posted:Also “I really need to understand the responsibilities of the role and benefits package first”. Maybe followed up with a “but if you tell me what you have budgeted for the role then we can at least check that we’re in the same ballpark”. drat, this would have been it. I wanted to know more about benefits but they specifically said that that would be handled in the second round lf interviews and I didn't think about it anymore when we got to the pay question. Could have shut it down by saying insisting on knowing the benefits to evaluate the pay. Thanks for the input. It's hard to use the advice of this thread as ridgidly as you guys demand (which I still agree is a good tactic) because we have a very different kind of employment system in my country, with health insurance etc. being socialized and minimum wage being negotiated by the unions on a industry basis. This means we negotiate pay on top of the minimum wage rather than just "pay". Benefits are really less of a thing, it's more about hours, on-call and overtime pay, which is also regulated by the unions. Sick days are obviously unlimited so none of that factors in either. SEKCobra fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 19:46
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I'm in a similar boat (just not others being paid that much more). I am interview shopping right now and I plan to go in for renegotiations once I have some solid offers. Problem is, I am shooting way high on negotiations and the culture here makes it seem almost impossible to not name a number, so I am having a hard time getting solid offers while at the same time making sure those offers would be something I'd be happy to take. I figure I can just set a pie in the sky number and negotiate down, but so far any time HR got involved they demanded a number from me. I just can't seem to properly apply the threads advice to not name one, because this always happens when they are already ready to sign papers (Second interview completed and all). I know I am supposed to deflect and play it back to them, but it is clear they are good at turning it back to me and I am not good at surviving multiple rounds on the merry go round of number naming. So yeah, next week I get a hiring interview and I'll try to avoid it again, but the department chief i interviewed with told me in good faith today that the HR department probably will not accept the deflection like he did. So we'll see if anchoring high works as a last ressort (as i expect to fold eventually, tbh) or not.
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Mar 25, 2022 18:16
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leper khan posted:"I'll have to get back to you in a week or so after I've researched the market for appropriate compensation for the role. Do you have access to market salary data that could make this go faster?" Hardly an appropriate answer during salary negotiations for a position I already interviewed for, or am I totally off my rocker? I feel like they'd rightly expect me to know this considering they pretty much offered me the job already baring the final interview/negotiation process.
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Mar 25, 2022 18:41
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Just finished the first round of interviews at another company and they got so ahead of themselves in trying to convince me that certain things aren't problems without me asking (showing that they know those are i ternal issues) that we didn't actually get to discuss the pay. The department head told me that he was very interested in hiring me when the HR lady had timed out. I am planing to just shoot *very* high if they ask for a number and I can't wiggle my way out, just telling them outright that that would be what it'd need to make me sign now without further details. There's two downsides to this job that keep popping up at most places I'm interviewing: Open plan offices (or at least headcounts above 5, while really 3 or MAYBE 4 would be my absolute max) A tendency to dissuade work from home, despite this place actually advertising 50:50 the hr lady clearly stated that they see many downsides to it and will probably reduce it (or recommend against it) "after covid". These are two things I have at my current job I really dread to lose, because I just really hate sharing an office with too many people and I really enjoy wfh and think it makes me way more productive. How much value should I assign to these things, and at what point do I just say gently caress it and take a 30% pay bump?
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Mar 31, 2022 20:42
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Eric the Mauve posted:30% wouldn't tempt me in the slightest to trade remote for an open plan office. The commute alone would eat up most of the marginal gain. That's me; you have to decide what staying remote is worth to you. I misspoke, I am currently at 60:40 office:remote, my commute right now is also awesome, the other place is only slightly worse. (Both are within my city and reachable by public transport without transfer) But you are right, I should factor in the "grain of salt" she put out about returning to office only and negotiate that into my contract as a non-optional part rather than just "hope" for the company policy sticking around. asur posted:The value of work from home is almost entirely dependent on your commute. If it's a 5 minute walk then it's very low, 15 minute drive is moderate, 30+ is high and an hour+ is you couldn't pay me enough. One way to look at it is to value the additional time you have to spend though this comes out to a low value to me, 30 min each way would be around 12.5%. I actually like wfh for other reasons, like the "disconnect" from office life and other distractions. My commute is <30 minute by tram right now and would probably be more like 50 minutes to the other place by bus. I really can't stand open floor plan offices, it's just too many people doing their own thing, having people over, being on calls etc. Arquinsiel posted:What this tells me is that they view promises as more guidelines. At best. They have shown their cards about interpreting rules as guidelines, which they genuinely seem to use "both ways", and it's indeed a bit of a warning sign, but the position I applied for isn't affected by this "culture" too much as far as I can gather. Considering my current employer also sees certain rules or laws only as guidelines, it wouldn't really be a step down in that regard. I guess I have learned to work around that sorta thing and it's not my #1 priority right now.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:57
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So I have been told I will get an offer for a corporate job and I can definitely expect to get more than the min I set for myself, but I am having a hard time getting excited. It will inclue a week of on-call per month (meh) and be more of a silo job. It is however at least a 25% pay increase and that's pretty significant in my socialist country. The on-call pay would be on top though. One big downside is the corporations policy of only hiring people through leasing for two years before transfering them to the actual company, apparently so they can easily fire underperformers (if you are in the actual company it's much harder, because it's an employee majority owned corp). I am definitely scared of losing all the autonomy I enjoy in my current allrounder position, but my current employer is leaving me more and more unsatisfied, in pay, but also a few more areas.
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Apr 4, 2022 18:20
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Had an interview for a job I am extremely overqualified for today (the listing was very vague). The local office only houses service techs, but apparently they were so interested in me that they are considering creating a remote position for me. The HQ is over 2 hours away and would not be an option, but I am taking it as a good sign, that they are going out of their way like this.
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Apr 8, 2022 14:18
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SEKCobra posted:So I have been told I will get an offer for a corporate job and I can definitely expect to get more than the min I set for myself, but I am having a hard time getting excited. It will inclue a week of on-call per month (meh) and be more of a silo job. It is however at least a 25% pay increase and that's pretty significant in my socialist country. So I just received the offer for the silo job and it seems solid enough. Obviously, I am waiting for multiple offers and won't accept anything before I have all of them in hand (unless they make me, but I don't want to accept one and go back on it if not necessary) They made me name a number, and they matched it, but only kind of. Basically, they are saying the on call pay will get me there easy (which I have no reason to doubt), but this wasn't what I meant when I said "if you were to offer me x I guess we don't need to negotiate". Basically, they exactly hit the minimum I set beforehand with the basepay. I am still not really excited for the job, but the pay is a pretty big increase. The on-call rotation is kind of the biggest downside for me, so getting more pay for that is not something that factors into the base pay for me. My plan is to thank them for the offer and ask if I can visit the office (so far everything has been online) so I can get a feel for the place before accepting. How do I drop 'I also want to reneg' in there without being too forward or rude? Also still really turned off by the "Will get permanent job after 2 years if performance is sufficient" clause, seems scummy.
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Apr 13, 2022 09:00
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Eric the Mauve posted:To be honest there is a parade of red flags there, how bad is your current job exactly because this one doesn't sound promising at all. Not bad, just underpayed, I already told my boss that I want to have "the talk", but considering that my colleague who is paid far less got turned down to the point where he quit, I have low expectations. I don't want to quit but I am starting to feel like I have to, considering everyone offers me like at least 25% more base pay.
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Apr 13, 2022 12:11
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m0therfux0r posted:If there are actually multiple companies offering you 25%+ salary increases, I'd say go with one that isn't going to make you wait *TWO YEARS* for your job to become permanent (and maybe one that either has no on-call time or pays better for on-call time). I am still waiting to hear back on other things and will continue interviewing anyway, but this is the first solid offer I have in hand and despite all the negatives I have posted, the corporation has a very good image, I know people there and the whole business is basically employees-first. The on-call is paid on top of my personal minimum target pay (for "any" job), but I definitely want to ask for a larger base pay to stomach these downsides. m0therfux0r posted:Two years is an insane temp-to-hire time period to name up front. Most of them will say something like 6 months (and then keep extending it because that's what happens half the time), but saying 2 years outright up front seems wild to me. I guess it's possible that it's more of a norm in your industry, but I've never run into it myself unless it's a longer-term project with a known end date that you'll be working on (in which case you'd just be let go at the end). I agree, this is the biggest red flag to me. However, this is in fact normal for this corp and I know that the corporation is actually "employee-first", there are no drawbacks like it would be with other temp jobs (Lower benefits, not counting as employment with the actual company in years etc.), it's really just a way for them to "guide people out" if the branch doesn't want to keep you. This comes from the main business of the corp being manufacturing with many different divisions, but applies to the IT chapter I would be working for all the same. Basically the whole corp is a socialist as gently caress place, so everything is built towards fairness and one of those things is putting people that are a bad fit for "division a" into "division b" if everyone agrees, which is easier when they are a temp apparently. I don't like it, but I do actually trust this to be true, because I have some inside knowledge of these processes. Still, for me and my job this would obviously mean I could be let go "more easily" within those first two years and that's not exactly something that screams "job security" and remains a big downside in my comparisons. It really comes down to juggling things like on-call, all-in, lovely open-plan offices, large pay, humongous pay, team sizes etc. All the places I have interviewed for so far have had at least one major downside (for me personally), I am still waiting/hoping for that one true job to roll around, but it hasn't happened yet. If I can get the raise I want, staying might be the best option until then. But if I don't I really have to weigh that "one" downside of every offer against the downside of loosing out on 1000+ euros per month.
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Apr 13, 2022 17:08
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IDK about you guys, but to me it sounds like they are trying to make this happen, but need to find a way to budget it first.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:16
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So I am about to counter an offer, they gave me €500/month below my "buyout" value(Yeah I know, I am idiot for naming one, but I suck at not caving), but told me that this will be approximately what I would make in on-call pay. My counter would be 5% above this, which puts me about halfway towards my named number. What they offered is actually what I considered my "I should probably go for it" number, but that was for a job with no asterisks (Like on-call). So basically I want a bit more money to offset the sadness from having to be on call sometimes. TL;DR: I guess my question now is: Is it a bad idea to outright state 5% here? Should I be asking for more than what I actually want? Should I not ask for anything specific, but rather just nicely say "please consider paying me a bit more"  ? As I have begun (trying to) internalizing the thread mantra, I am not sure if naming a number here is stupid on my part.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:38
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Parallelwoody posted:You should name a number higher than what you'll accept as long as it's within reason, and accept if they are least meet your minimum viable raise that you determined in advance. If they don't, hit the bricks. And absolutely do not ask "please can you pay me a bit more." The thread says not to name a number first if you aren't experienced. It doesn't say to never name a number, especially if you've received an offer. Well I feel like they wouldn't go for me asking for more more, because that would almost necessarily be my original ask or very close to it. Really, I am considering taking the job even without an additional raise, I am just trying to make the decision easier for me.
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Apr 21, 2022 19:55
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Arquinsiel posted:Ask for extra vacation days to make up for potential on-call time if they won't budge on cash? They made it clear that pto won't be negotiable, so money it is. I asked for 8%, if they come back with 4% I'd still be happy enough. Regardless, I still need to actually decided if I am ready to take the job either way, the pay bump is massive, but my duties would shrink massively while at the same time I'll probably be in for a lot of really boring work.
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Apr 21, 2022 20:24
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