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I'm thinking about asking for the first significant raise in my career and want to make sure no one thinks I"m about to walk into a mine field. First, a little backstory: I got out of school with a software engineering degree but my pay was pretty dismal at first both due to the economy still sort of sucking and being an idiot when considering how my pay was actually going to work. It was a consulting position that was heavily weighed to compensate based on travel and I wound up rolling snake-eyes and was only placed on local jobs with no travel. Most of my friends who took the same position were making over six figures- I was barely making over $50k. This unfortunately put me in a hole that I've been climbing out of for over seven years now. The next job knew they could low-ball me and did and only offered 3-4% raises each year while acting like a 4% raise was a huge deal. Fortunately my second job-hop to my current employer went well and landed me a pretty good pay increase and the three years I've been here now I've gotten roughly 10% and was promoted after working there for about half a year. All things considered I really love my current job. I'm very happy with my pay, the people I work with are great, there's tons of room for growth and my boss throws me into harder and harder projects with more responsibilities as soon as I'm ready for them. When I started here 3 years ago I was an individual contributer / associate and now I'm running my own projects entirely which includes client relationship management, finding additional funding for contract extensions, etc. Despite the large yearly raises though I'm starting to feel like I'm under compensated for what I've been doing. I think a fair shake would be essentially splitting the money I directly pull in into three, one share for me, one share for management since they're the ones lining up my next contract and handling the paperwork, and one share to the company which builds our product that makes my job so easy. It would put me about 20-25% higher than I'm currently paid so I don't think it's an outrageous ask either. Is that how I should approach the conversation? Just that while I've been very happy with my pay increases and love working here etc I just feel like the pay hasn't quite kept up with my increased responsibilities? Is the three-way split reasonable or something that's going to make my boss think I'm a dipshit? At the end of the day even if I get shot down I'm still happy as hell at this job and don't really need the money. So while I don't really have any negotiating position it also doesn't matter too much if I don't get what I want.
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Jun 3, 2019 01:01
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 16:23 |
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Motronic posted:It's not clear how your previous underpayment had any impact at all on your pay at this job, unless you didn't read the OP of this thread and actually told them what you were making. You need to not do that this time. Yeah I let it slip. Lesson learned
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Jun 3, 2019 02:55
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Oh yeah I know that stuff. More just making sure that I’m not going to screw something up when asking for the raise. I even think management has realized on their own that i’m below market rate and are a bit uneasy about it hence the 10% raises each year. Last year I was fine with that but in the past year I’ve really taken a lot of additional responsibilities and think I’m due. Another detail is that both my sales exec and manager have both been hinting very loudly that I’m due for another promotion even though I was just promoted to my current level just under two years ago. My gut is telling me this raise is going to be coming anyways but we’ll see. I think I want to get out ahead of that promotion and anchor what I think my oh should be once that happens. If we’re at the end of the summer and I have nothing to show for it I may start looking.
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Jun 3, 2019 03:43
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Inept posted:This is the same employer that lowballed you in the first place. yeah i’m well into six figures now. my comp is basically at where i would expect it to be at my title last year. the thing is that over the past year we’ve had a lot of situations where i had to step up and did so. i think i’m at the point where i’ve established the trend that i’m operating at the higher level and the larger raise / promotion is justified. also- this may have been the wrong thread to post this in haha. i think the career thread is where it should have gone
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Jun 3, 2019 04:17
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spwrozek posted:In this case though he said he was making market for old responsibilities. He got new responsibilities, stretch/growth goals? He feels like he is crushing it. My advice would be to go in and talk about a raise based on the additional responsibilities and doing well at it. Especially if he is happy with the place he works otherwise. Yeah this. I’ve been very happy here and by all accounts it sounds like management is already aware of all this and about to act during our yearly ‘big’ review in a few months. I more want to anchor what I think I should be paid ahead of time but that also runs the risk of shorting myself.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:22
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I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this rightRex-Goliath posted:talked with the recruiter. he opened the convo with the ‘i don’t want to waste either of our time so what’s your base’ and i’ve been so fed up with that bullshit and also loving myself by answering it that i just replied with a flat ‘i’m not answering that question’ and letting the air hang. was genuinely ready to hang up but he recovered the convo and eventually came around to telling me what the base pay would be and if that was sufficient to move forward.
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Jun 14, 2019 16:00
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spf3million posted:I told the person who handed me the offer for the internal move that I wanted more and here's why. A few days later he came back with an offer slightly higher than the initial but below my ask. I accepted. Too bad they just can't compete with the external market that they know they're up against. A real shame that HR is just preventing them from paying you your market worth. Just tragic that they can't pay you your market worth. Really. Nothing can be done. 
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Jun 25, 2019 06:30
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Rex-Goliath posted:I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this right Update on this: annual review went well and landed me my second promotion in three years plus another 9% raise. That's the good news. Bad news is according to glassdoor I'm literally underneath the payband for my new title and my bonus is still set as if I'm at my previous title. The bonus rates are something that's documented in our career matrix and not at all vague so it actually kind of feels like a kick in the dick. I brought up the fact I'm very unhappy with my comp to my boss during the review and he both acknowledged that I'm underpaid while also saying it's going to take six months to make any progress on fixing it. He also told me not to do anything drastic without talking to him first. Competing company still stands and the fact they're willing to wait for me to wrap up this two month project overseas is a very good sign, in my opinion. So yeah. You guys were right.
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Aug 27, 2019 02:41
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Yep. I'm taking a week of PTO when I'm back in the states to fly out to meet their executive team and wrap things up.
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Aug 27, 2019 02:44
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i don't think that's inherently true that Boss is holding out on him That’s my read on it too, yeah. Dwight Eisenhower posted:Honestly if your manager says 'Talk to me before you do something drastic' your first response should be, to his or her face, 'what are you holding back, then?' Also this. I didn’t respond with that but that was the takeaway I got. They COULD make things work but I’m going to have to threaten them more aggressively to get it. That’s not acceptable to me because I’m not even asking to be lifted above the payband. I just want to be in it. It was real disappointing because I thought this place would be better than that.
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Aug 28, 2019 02:06
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Chaotic Flame posted:It's a hard lesson to learn but almost no company is "better than that" I should be more clear: not out of any goodness in their hearts. The company is an extremely niche technology where the only people you can find who know it are basically the employees themselves. It takes a long time to become proficient at it- typically it takes over a year until new employees are really self-sufficient. Also since they're still private I figured they'd be able to take a longer-term view on employee retention. And all of this would have been avoided if I'd just refused to answer HRs prodding right when I was at the finish line.
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Aug 28, 2019 06:34
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What all do I need to consider if I switch over to contract work? 31 years old in PA for health insurance, single. A recruiter hit me up with a one year contract and the hourly rate is.... wow. Also it’s a year long. My long term goal has been to eventually contract on my own and eventually start my own consulting firm. Was planning on waiting a few more years until I really jumped in but if it falls into my lap like this then why not?
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Sep 12, 2019 02:28
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Things are continuing to slowly move forwards for me. Just got a call saying that they’re ready to make an offer and want me to fly out so we can get some face time. Question: if i’m roughly employee #100 coming into a company at the architect level and the company is profitable but pre-ipo what sort of % ownership should i be gunning for? I feel like I have an incredibly strong negotiating position and while I understand bennies and salary I’ve never negotiated ownership.
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Oct 17, 2019 18:01
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Motronic posted:At 100 employees and a non-exec level position this isn't a percentage of the company type conversation. It's a dollar amount of equity at current valuation. If this is typical bay area bullshit and high growth potential, that number should probably be around $500k. Oh yeah it’d definitely be fractions of fractions of a percent- just have no clue how big those fractions typically are. That dollar amount is helpful though, thanks. Also yes I know that they should be considered effectively zero since it’s still pre-IPO. Just want to make sure I’m mentally prepared on all the different negotiating options available before I’m at the table.
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Oct 17, 2019 19:44
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Partially have it right- I live in PA but work remote for SV companies
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Oct 17, 2019 21:36
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How do you guys recommend responding to those ‘sorry, policy dictates that-‘ roadblocks? I typically go with something along the lines of, ‘well we’re going to need to address that then, do you know who to reach out to in order to appeal this?’ and going from there. It seems like the diplomatic response
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Oct 20, 2019 16:07
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:It's emotionally unsatisfying, ... Adding to this: five minutes after you walk out the door you won't care. Within a few days of starting the new job you'll find it hard to even spare a thought for them
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Oct 25, 2019 03:55
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:She told me she was "confused and saddened" as to "how we had gotten here" and that "she really wished I'd reconsider and stay." I got this exact same sob story when I left my last job. To be fair about a month after I left almost all the other guys in my position got raises and promotions so that may have been the knock in the head they needed.
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Dec 6, 2019 23:09
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I would love to know how much lovely HR practices like that are costing the American work force each year. There's so many people out there who have no idea that negotiating is even a thing- let alone having the willpower to do actually do it.
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Dec 10, 2019 01:01
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I’ve been talking to one of our competitors about a sales engineering role. I’ve been in professional services since I graduated 8 years ago so this will be a bit of a career switch and I need a bit of help prepping for the final offer negotiation stage. A bit of background: they reached out to me a few weeks ago due to my experience in this niche field (enterprise NoSQL) as it’s very difficult to find people with both relevant and customer-facing experience. Compensation came up once during the first call and after a gentle parry they agreed to drop the topic until they were ready to make an offer which was a good sign. Another REALLY good sign was during my first real interview with their VP when he told me that they’re trying to more than double their headcount in the next three months which is an extremely aggressive target, in my opinion, and also puts a lot of leverage on my side. We’re in the process of setting up the final technical screening and interview which should fall sometime around New Year’s week. I’m pretty confident that this is going to go well so I need to be ready to talk numbers if / when it comes to it. Right now as a consultant I make a pretty decent base salary and earn 12% quarterly on top of that as long as I hit my utilization rates. In the three years I’ve worked here I’ve never missed a quarter so this bonus has been extremely reliable. The bonus in this sales engineering position is expected to be 70/30 or ~42% of base. In addition the targets / commissions are based on regional performance, not individual sales executives. Looking at salaries reported on glassdoor it looks like the numbers line up with what they told me. Also working for their competitor I have unique insight into this market and know that business has been very good lately- also evidenced by their aggressive growth. Obviously I won’t/haven’t reveal to them that the main reason I’m even talking to them is because I’m very unhappy with my pay. I feel like I can make a strong case for the upper end of their pay band due to my unique experience in the field along with their aggressive targets for growth. If I can manage that it’d be a 15% increase in base salary alone, and an almost 45% increase in total comp. So even worst case scenario if the bonuses totally fall through I’m still coming out ahead working a job that’s way less stressful. My negotiating position is strong as well because my position at my current company is strong and while being paid less than my peers- the pay itself is still pretty drat good. How does this all sound? Am I missing anything? Anyone have a unique insight into technical sales engineering that I should be aware of?
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Dec 20, 2019 16:41
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I wouldn’t entirely drop a supplier unless they totally screwed the pooch on something. IIRC Amazon/Wal*Mart/etc always keep some business trickling to all their fulfillment partners (USPS, FedEx, DHL, etc) for exactly the reasons you pointed out. If you get terms you don’t like you can shift some amount of your business to their competitor. At the same time the increased business to the second supplier is provided with the caveat that you expect their quality to increase. Not only does this keep both suppliers reasonably on their toes it also prevents you from being totally boned should some black swan event obliterate the supplier you decided to go with. Full disclosure: I don’t handle anything remotely close to what you’re talking about in my day to day life. This is only from me being a nerd and reading about the business practices of larger organizations.
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Jan 15, 2020 22:57
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I was just about to crawl out of the pit 2008 had thrown me into too. gently caress.
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Mar 31, 2020 16:01
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There’s tons of US recruiters that do that too- it’s not just a London thing
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May 24, 2020 17:31
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Glad I made that mistake two years into my first real job out of school. Now I have the burn scar for the rest of my career to remind me. Way better to make that mistake early when the hop would have ultimately meant about ten grand, a different faceless corporate overlord, and single than well into your career when way much is at stake.
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Jul 1, 2020 13:17
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Inner Light posted:How about when the recruiter (either early in the process so before a phone screen, or fairly far along and after it) inevitably asks for your current salary. What is the thread consensus line on how to refuse that again? You tell them to go gently caress themselves. I’m not joking. I’ve straight up yelled at recruiters who’ve asked me that telling them that if they ask that or anything close to that again I’ll be hanging up. Anyone who pulls that poo poo is probably a scumbag that you don’t want to be working for anyways.
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Sep 14, 2020 21:50
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Well it's been over a year now on the hunt but it's finally come to an end. I was given an offer a few days ago for basically my dream job which came in well above what I would have accepted (BECAUSE I DIDN'T SAY A FUCKIN NUMBER THIS TIME). I countered anyways asking for an additional 7% on top just because why not? They came back a day later accepting my counter and I've just signed the paperwork. My new base salary is well above where my current base + bonus puts me and I get a fatter bonus than I currently get on top of it. To anyone who's still in the slog: it's a numbers game. You're going to face a lot of rejections or run into a lot of brick walls when you can't come to an agreement. Just shrug those off and keep looking. Your ideal position is out there somewhere and the only way you'll find it is if you keep grinding at it. Don't blink when their HR tries to harass you into accepting less than you know you're worth. It'll click eventually.
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Nov 21, 2020 19:06
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You already accepted their offer. The time to have negotiated that would have been when you were still negotiating. Just accept what you've secured and be happy with it because you've already summed up their response perfectly:Stoop Kid posted:too-little-too-late at this point
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Dec 12, 2020 20:43
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For what it's worth- after a month of back and forth with my next employer we finally settled on a starting date and I put in my resignation notice at my current place. Both my boss and boss's boss called me and asked if I'd consider a counter. Even in this circumstance, where I know they had their hands tied and couldn't give me a raise over the past year due to upper management being in talks with being acquired by private capital, I'm not entertaining it. In the most charitable interpretation they're telling you that you won't be able to get anything moving forwards without outright threatening them / brinkmanship. That isn't a healthy business relationship. You may get what you want in the short term but the problems will still persist and you'll be in the same situation in a few years.
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Dec 12, 2020 22:03
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Beautiful
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Jan 30, 2021 20:43
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Busy Bee posted:To be honest, it's hard to say. It really felt he concentrated the majority of the time on such insignificant feedback such as he wanted me to actively participate during a 2 hour training session with an external provider on a new tool that we started working with. "There was a time when the person asked if anyone wanted to share their screen to participate, you didn't raise your hand and share your screen - I would like to see you have more proactive participation" Note that I'm a fast learner, have never had any issues with any of our current tools, and routinely train our new hires on the different software we work with. I also have great relationships with the rest of the team and my participation during the other meetings we have is normal and none of the feedback that I received from my peers expressed this idea that I need to be a more "proactive participant". Really seemed that he had to dig deep to provide me with this feedback. I was in this exact position two jobs ago and the feedback he's giving you sounds exactly like the first review I'd gotten when I also felt like I was knocking it out of the park. I stayed there for another 2 years before I finally got out. It didn't improve. I was much happier once I was in a new job that had managers that weren't shitheads. Don't make my mistake. Start looking now. If things improve before you find a better gig, great. If they don't- then it sucks for them because they lost a good employee due to a shithead manager. That's not on you
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Feb 3, 2021 00:03
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If you've already accepted the offer having them find out by your future employer calling to verify is a hell of a power move though
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Feb 3, 2021 20:32
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Just tell them what your rate is. It's not complicated. They already said a number so you're not violating any rules by countering. After you tell them what your rate is they either accept it or counter. At which point you either accept it or counter.
PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 16:55
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I think something that may be useful to add to the OP would be something along the lines of getting comfortable with the concept of walking or saying no. We see a lot of people who are mostly getting it but it seems like they're getting tunnel vision on the current negotiation without realizing that a valid exit is just walking from it entirely. Something that goes in hand with, 'Know when you've won' that would be something like, 'Know when to walk'. edit: I'm not claiming that this is something easy to do either, especially for someone who's new to this. Just that it needs to be something to keep in mind. For me one of the best things that led me to securing larger offers and better jobs was knowing how to pick and choose opportunities and cut bait early when discussions aren't panning out like I expected. Similarly when you're early in your career it's helpful to feel out opportunities / take interviews even if you have no intention of following through for no other reason then it will help you get used to rejecting offers outright. It's something that feels unnatural at first and many HR departments do everything in their power to make it even harder. PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 17:10
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I’m guessing you already looked up your own employer and didn’t find enough information. Try looking up competitors in your area or in cities with a similar cost of living
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Feb 11, 2021 05:39
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Parallelwoody posted:In fairness not only the article that quotes it says this is a bad approach but every comment under it seems to proceed to dunk on the person that submitted it. I can tell from the tone of that person's letter that they absolutely will not listen to either the author's advice or the comments. It's just oozing of idiot-bravado
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Feb 17, 2021 01:14
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You're risking a 20% ongoing increase for a 5% one-time payout. I don't think it'd be *that* risky to ask but after being delayed for so long it's definitely going to raise some eyebrows. I think your situation should be filed under, 'know when you've won' and just take the L. Keep in mind that if your background/drug test went through on time you probably wouldn't have even known about this bonus.
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Feb 17, 2021 16:48
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Another thing to keep in mind is your opportunity cost. Two months at 20% higher salary comes out to 3%. So in reality you're not leaving 5% of your salary behind, it's 2%. So try to focus on that number instead and ask if it'd be worth the headache you'd be setting yourself up for.
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Feb 17, 2021 17:53
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Shats Basoon posted:I went ahead and put in notice at my current job. My current manager is actually a really great lady & boss so when I told her she actually encouraged me to try to work until the bonus is paid out if I could. I was more concerned with starting off on the wrong foot at the new job. If the bonus was paid out a few weeks earlier I'd give it a shot but I think i'll just let it be. Grats on having a cool boss. I was in the same situation when I jumped at the end of next year but got lucky in that my bonus & 401k match fell within my window. My boss made sure my last day would put me in the window necessary to get them. However if I was in your position I would have done the same thing.
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Feb 17, 2021 21:26
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bamhand posted:My sister's boyfriend is a fresh college grad who got an offer at a consulting company. They have offices in NYC and Chicago, he asked me how to phrase a letter saying he would really, really, prefer to be in NY (where they have few openings) but would take a position in Chicago (where they have a bunch of openings). My assessment was no matter how he phrased it, they wouldn't care and would not give him any special preference for NY. His best option was to say he would accept an NYC role but would need to additional time to consider other offers if given Chicago. Am I missing anything here? Is there an important reason he's preferring NYC over Chicago? I ask because like KYOON GRIFFEY JR noted as soon as covid is over his rear end is going to be living in hotels and airports and regularly flying into and out of Chicago will probably be WAY less of a pain in the rear end than New York. This may be something to talk about in the business travel thread though
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Feb 18, 2021 04:56
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 16:23 |
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Parallelwoody posted:None taken. I've worked with a lot of HR people and can say, anecdotally at least, a majority of them suck poo poo. I would advise you to find out the reasons for denial though - hr might just be on the processing side and it's your manager giving it the thumbs down. Continuing on this: if anyone feels like they want to gaze into the abyss try poking around the HR realms on LinkedIn. Every thread will be 99 HR peeps all validating each other on their sociopathy with a single person at the bottom going, "uhhhh guys this is hosed up"
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Feb 23, 2021 14:42
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