The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR? - The Something Awful Forums

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

In my experience, non-profits are often pretty generous with time off and flexible work-hours, and for some people those things are very valuable.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2020 23:48

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 04:47

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Not a Children posted:

If that's the case, good riddance.

Yeah. You dodged a bullet.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2021 20:09

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

They offered me the higher level position and $10k under what I had asked for at the lower level position; I said great opportunity, really excited, but you'd have to meet me on salary. VP said she would talk to HR and see if they can meet me there. That was a week ago, I haven't heard a peep since. I get the distinct sense I'm being hosed around with.

They are proceeding to offer to their #2 choice, and then their #3 choice, etc., and if they all get shot down they'll come back to you with a slightly better offer.

They've basically pulled their offer but they want to reserve the option to reopen things if none of their alternatives pan out, therefore - radio silence.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2021 00:09

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Eric the Mauve posted:

hell yes an extra twenty thousand dollars per year is a Good Thing.

Yep. Stack that paper, chief.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2021 16:19

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

LochNessMonster posted:

You may see this as how the market works but your employer will see this as �not a teamplayer�, �not loyal� and as Dik Hz said: �flight risk�.

Yep. You almost walked out the door once, the company is going to think twice before investing in new skills for you, or placing you in charge of an important new project, or putting any effort into mentoring or developing you, or bringing you in to any kind of additional decision-making roles, etc.

More broadly, the fact that went you went out and suffered through the whole job hunting and interview process and landed an offer (a good one!) is proof that you are, on some very important level, unhappy with your current job. Something is nagging you to get up and out of your current gig, and you probably listen to it.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2021 19:15

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Yeah, "contract-to-hire" jobs often never quite get around to the "-to-hire" part. Stringing you along with a promise that a full-time position with benefits is juuuuust around the corner is SOP for a lot of companies.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2021 19:23

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Guinness posted:

If you've got bad HR you're at a bad company.

Yep. A good company with bad HR is a bad company.

One of HR's roles is 'designated scapegoat', as this discussion thread is proving. It's very useful for a company to be able to say "oh, we'd love to accommodate you - really we would! - but those meanies in HR just won't allow it."

# ¿ Jul 8, 2021 18:30

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

BabyFur Denny posted:

close the browser tab

This is the correct answer. A company that pulls this kind of crap on you this early in the application process is not one you want to work for, in all likelihood.

In a way, they're doing you a favor by showing you their true colors so soon.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2021 02:14

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

That first paycheck will trigger a round of kicking yourself for not making the move a long time ago.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2021 21:12

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Magnetic North posted:

I'm a bit late for the Exit Interview Chat that I accidentally started, but I guess I'll say my very simple take on it, based on what I've read. The key thing to remember is that exit interviews are for the company, not you. You cannot improve anything for yourself in one. All you can do is something potentially negative like burning a bridge. Also, even if you have good intentions to make things better for those who remain, the odds of that are very small. In fact, your departure itself has a greater chance of making a difference if it adequately spooks management into trying to retain talent. Just politely decline.

My attitude is always: I'm leaving the company, I don't owe you people anything, it's not my job to fix your broken culture, and this has a non-zero chance of somehow damaging my future prospects (either elsewhere or back here). So what's my incentive to mouth anything other than bland platitudes in an exit interview, or even to sit for one at all if I can avoid it?

# ¿ Sep 27, 2021 23:10

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

air- posted:

I saw another goon brought up the family business thing and gotta note were exactly right, the top management/exec leadership is all family soooo

There's a standup comic from a zillion years ago that I wish I could remember the name of, but he did a routine that was riffing on Olive Garden: "I saw an ad for Olive Garden and the slogan was 'We'll treat you like family!'" followed by a long pause and then 'That bad, huh?"

That always comes to mind when I hear someone describe their workplace as "we're all one big family" or (worse) family-owned.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2021 17:04

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Yes, but against all that you have to balance the fact that his 25 year old son graduated from a VERY prestigious university.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2021 19:47

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

My suggestion for how to spend your newfound windfall is to slam your 410k withholding slider all the way to the right. Future-you will thank you for it.

And congratulations!

# ¿ Dec 31, 2021 06:05

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Coco13 posted:

Until you have a written offer in hand, it's in your best interest to keep looking anyway.

Until you've been issued you door badge (or received your work laptop in the mail, if you're remote) you should keep looking. Offers, even written offers, sometimes turn to dust at the eleventh hour.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2022 21:23

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Woolwich Bagnet posted:

Got my official offer today to sign and it's as we had negotiated Friday, but the talent acq. person got the starting bonus either wrong, or they upped it almost 3x so I'm very happy.

:toot:

:woop:

# ¿ Feb 7, 2022 23:39

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Nobody wants to stick out as the guy who takes the most vacation days on their team so there's a general ratcheting down of time taken off as people base their ideas of "not abusing the system" by observing their coworkers.

UPTO is a scam.

One big reason companies like it is for accounting reasons - unused PTO counts as a liability and can grow to a pretty big number, so simply doing away with tracked PTO altogether genuinely boosts the bottom line.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2022 05:24

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

As a departing employee, what exactly are my incentives to say anything other than bland pleasantries in an exit interview? I don't work here any more, it's not my job to fix your company's broken culture, and anything sharp or negative I say might come back to bite me some day (unlikely, but possible). Just give me my final paycheck and let me hand over my security badge and laptop.

# ¿ May 25, 2022 06:32

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Corla Plankun posted:

A lot of things can happen in a job search, and sometimes companies change their mind about the level or the compensation or whatever and its worth sticking around to see if it can still work. BUT if a company surprises you with anything related to helpdesk or sales, you are literally being conned. Nobody applies to helpdesk or (low end) sales jobs because they're poo poo jobs, and the companies trying to hire for them know this so they'll lie and lie and lie to get you locked into a miserable job "just for a bit when you start" and of course you'll never get out.

The other common form of this (again, often seen on helpdesk/sales) is "contract to hire" jobs, which never quite seem to get around to the "...to hire" part of the arrangement.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2022 06:30

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Yeah, you really have to jack up your rates on a 1099 because you get no PTO and have to pay for your own benefits (medical, disability, etc.) and have to pay the employer's share of taxes as well as your own (since you are self-employed). You also have to estimate and submit quarterly estimated tax withholdings to the IRS and your state. It's a huge mess.

Also, I'm getting strong bait-and-switch vibes from the the interview for a senior position that suddenly becomes unavailable but heeeeey we just happen to have this much crappier lower-level position that we think you'd be a good fit for!

# ¿ Dec 31, 2022 20:03

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Now that's some fuckin' BATNA.

Job hunting when you have a good job and are willing to use that as leverage in a negotiation really is a whole different world.

# ¿ May 8, 2023 20:17

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Ask A Manager has a post up today nicely illustrated why you should never, ever take a counter offer.

quote:

I turned down another job because my company promised me a raise � and now they�re not giving it to me

I have been with the same company for five years. I have steadily worked my way up and been given more and more responsibility. However, due Covid and the �Great Resignation,� my company experienced significant staffing changes. I have always been fairly flexible and tried to adapt to any changes that came my way.

Due to staffing issues and various clients coming and going, my workload has fluctuated much more than anyone else�s on the team. Not only am I the least experienced, I am now being asked to clean up other files that were not in the best shape. As a result, I feel like I haven�t been able to get the training or experience I need to keep up with some of the other coworkers who have much more experience. In spite of this, I meet my goals and have had very good performance reviews.

Due to burnout and exhaustion from not having a solid caseload and always having to be the �clean up person,� I found and accepted another job. As soon as my employer found out, they offered me a significant pay raise which exceeded the already very generous offer from the new company. They promised to make some changes and adjust my caseload to make things more manageable. I happily agreed to this and told the new company that I was thankful for their offer but I would be staying where I am.

Barely a week later, my current supervisor advised that I am no longer getting the raise due to a company-wide hiring freeze.

I didn�t feel like it would have been professional to turn right around to the new company and ask for the job I had just turned down. So I am now out the raise from the current company, but I am also unable to accept the new job.

I understand that business is business and I hold no ill will towards my supervisor as I know she was just the messenger (she did her best and I appreciate her trying). However, what little motivation I did have is gone. Any advice would be appreciated! I don�t like not giving my best effort, but it�s also difficult not to feel resentful for the opportunities I�ve now lost out on.

Counter offers: not even once!

# ¿ May 15, 2023 20:07

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Lockback posted:

I preach to people that promotions take time, but 6 months with no movement means you're getting strung along. It might be because your boss is spineless, malicious, there is no budget, etc. But it sorta doesn't matter.

Agreed that OP is being fed a line and being strung along. I suspect they've fallen into that category that overachievers sometimes get dumped into - you're doing the job of two or three people, so why would they promote you? In your current position you are providing tremendous value to the company, saving them the expense of hiring a whole extra employee or two, and they have no incentive to change that, not when they can continually make placative noises (budgets are tight...next cycle...we're waiting for authorization from HR...yadda yadda yadda) and reap the windfall that you doing multiple jobs for one salary is providing the company.

Time to start planning your exit.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2023 21:18

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Think about all the times they dangled a promotion and it never materialized
Think about all the barely-cost-of-living raises they granted by making sad noises about the budget (while the company posted record profits)
Think about how much money your work made for the company and how little of that money ended up in your pocket
Think about how much you sweated the last time there were rumors about layoffs

Get good and mad. Steel you heart and your eyes. You're going to go get (a fraction of) what's yours, this is how the system is supposed to work

# ¿ Oct 17, 2023 21:46

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Tricky Ed posted:

You're pre-negotiating with your imagination and compromising your position. You know that this was a price they were willing to pay. Make them justify paying less than that.

Remember that freelance rates price in the uncertainty of freelance positions. You need to make enough to cover your current expenses, your long-term saving goals, and also some amount of expected downtime once this contract ends. They work with contractors more than you do and they should understand this.

Freelancing also means paying your own benefits (health insurance, etc.) and paying the employers' share of your taxes along with your own. Plus you are usually supplying your own tools and equipment. Plus you may need professional services (accountant, lawyer) to handle the peculiarities of the freelance life. Budget for all of that as well.

Freelancing is a tough and nerve-wracking way to make a living. All credit to people who find a way to make it work for them.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2023 10:30

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Chaotic Flame posted:

Negotiated a higher level position than the one I interviewed for while unemployed and that was kind of nerve wracking. I've only ever negotiated hard when I've had other offers or an existing job.

Never don't negotiate goons. I ended up with 35% more total compensation and a higher level and all it took was five minutes on the phone. I didn't even have another offer in hand and they knew that, though they were aware that I had more interviews with other companies who were paying more but i wasn't at the offer stage yet with them.

:hellyeah:

# ¿ Mar 5, 2024 23:29

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Yeah, one of HR's most important roles is Designated Scapegoat.

"We'd love to give you a raise or a promotion or a bonus, honest and truly we do, but HR and their policies won't allow it, those meanies." - your boss telling you that he doesn't care enough about you to fight to get you your raise/promotion/bonus.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2024 22:44

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 04:47

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Blurb3947 posted:

Was offered 45k, countered with 53k + more PTO, they countered with the money but no extra PTO. Accepted.

Thanks thread for the help, it's not much but an extra 8k will be a huge help for my expenses.

An 18% bump, just for asking! Hell yes.

Negotiation thread stays winning.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2024 21:40

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

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