The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

This thread needs to be stickied.

# ¿ May 16, 2016 21:25

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 16:16

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Aren't norweigan tax returns public? This would be a very very different game if everyone had perfect information on current worker salaries.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2016 14:30

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

I've just been transferred to a different department after doing my new position's responsibilities since the beginning of spring. This also prompted HR to notice they've been incorrectly paying me shift premium that entire time and hold it out my check resulting in an effective 70% pay cut until sometime in february. Should I even come back from lunch?

# ¿ Nov 21, 2016 18:21

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

The local chevy dealership here just had 100% turnover after being sold, new owners told everyone who had been there for decades "Well you're all new hires to us so no vacation for 12 months" and was met with "Suck our dicks from the back"

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 20:15

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

It was like two weeks, staying open an extra 45 hours a week didn't go down very well either.

Stack in the 3mo probationary period before they could get their health ins. back and yeah I'm honestly surprised nobody's torched that place yet.

shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 27, 2017

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 22:53

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Welcome to the rural south where all business relationships are modeled on domestic abuse dynamics

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 00:38

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

JESUS MOTHERFUCKING CHRIST

The New York Times posted:

A third government official briefed on the meeting defended the president, saying Mr. Trump was using a negotiating tactic when he told Mr. Lavrov about the “pressure” he was under. The idea, the official suggested, was to create a sense of obligation with Russian officials and to coax concessions out of Mr. Lavrov — on Syria, Ukraine and other issues — by saying that Russian meddling in last year’s election had created enormous political problems for Mr. Trump.

# ¿ May 19, 2017 20:55

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

They had their chance, leave.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2017 23:09

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Moist Chowder posted:

If I goofed and named a number for an out-of-town job under pressure of a cold call, can I recover? The HR department has been very evasive, and I have to negotiate with them.

I flew out to interview with BigCorp in a high COL city, the team quickly moved me through the process, and they want to hire me. I know a hard-to-find skill at a senior level, and there aren't any suitable locals. The last step is to negotiate with HR. I feel like it's treated as taboo to discuss salary with anyone other than HR, so I didn't ask my potential boss during the in-person interview.

I'm worrying about this call because I messed up and named a low number during the first phone call with HR, which went like this:

HR Rep: "Hi, I'm HR Rep calling from BigCorp. Are you still interested in the job?"
Me: "Yes, I didn't expect to hear back from you since it's been three months since I applied."
HR Rep: "Great. What salary would you need to accept this job?"
Me: "I'm more interested in hearing the details of the job and culture fit, then how about we talk about that?"
HR Rep: "That's great. I'd love to tell you more, but I can't move forward until you tell me your salary expectations."
Me: "Well, I'm more interested in the entire compensation package. Bonus structure, PTO, 401(k) matching, etc. I'm interested in hearing about all the pieces of the compensation package."
HR Rep: "I'm sorry, but we can't move forward until you give me a figure."
Me: "I live in a lower cost of living city. I know my local market, but I have no idea what a proper salary should be in your city. What is the salary range?"
HR Rep: "Really? You applied to a job in this city and have absolutely no idea how much you should be getting paid?"

At this point, she wore me down by deflecting and suggesting I was stupid. I wanted her to name the first number, but I gave in because she made me appear stupid (which was self-fulfilling when I replied with a number) and because my current job is a circus, so I wanted to continue the conversation. This was the only job I applied for in the city, and it had been months since I applied, so I didn't know how much should be adjusted for COL.

Me: "Well, I would imagine it would have to be at least [low number] to [low number + 10k]."
HR Rep: "(silence) I think that's workable. [low number] is in our range. You know, you're at a disadvantage as a remote candidate. Would you need relocation assistance?"
Me: "I would think so. I would need a very good offer to not receive any. What is the salary range?"
HR Rep: "I think we could do [low number]...maybe [low number + 5k] plus some relocation costs."
Me: "I just don't know. Is that in your range? Can we talk about the job now?"

Fast forward to today, now I know:
A relocation package is automatically included
Anything below [low number + 10k] would be a paycut relative to COL
Rent + taxes are way higher than I thought
My research suggests [low number + 20k] would be competitive (but I still don't know the range)

So my questions for you goons are:
1. Can I re-orient negotiations (perhaps on the basis of ignorance of COL or being hard to find?), or have I anchored myself irreparably?
2. How could I get HR to reveal the salary range or get out of this game of me shooting in the dark?
3. If they continue to evade and I'm forced to target a salary (one that's too high) might they shut me out?
4. In the final round, my potential boss said I could reach out to him with any questions. Should I contact him to ask about salary and go around HR?
I have a feeling that's a bad idea, but I'm not used to HR departments being so secretive (there are other details I omitted to avoid a total wall of text), and the boss was eager to get me on board.

That's going to be an absolutely miserable place to work and nothing of value will be lost if you just walk away.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2018 13:30

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

But to be clear, you should run not walk

# ¿ Sep 8, 2018 17:53

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Thin Privilege posted:

Read OP, but I'm not sure it answered my situation entirely. I'm working a retail-ish job and making let's say $13 an hour. The guy that's my friend but also district manager already has known that for months and is now just needing a store or assistant manager so it sucks that he knows my salary and that I'm hourly, not salaried (hourly is better for these jobs imo). Wtf do I do when they ask what I want to be paid? Do I be like, I want $17/hr cause that's what GMs at my other franchise made? Do I ball high? Should I ask what they're offering and be like "that's not enough"? Both jobs are drat hard btw so I want to be compensated.

ask for the moon while interviewing any and everywhere to get the gently caress out of retail

# ¿ Nov 20, 2018 02:47

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

You should just totally ignore that because "on the wrong foot" means "letting you think you're allowed to have a spine"

# ¿ Feb 10, 2019 06:32

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

and nothing of value was lost

# ¿ Feb 16, 2019 04:31

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Income is a terrible marker of class. If laws apply to you, you're basically homeless.

# ¿ May 21, 2019 22:26

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

The plant manager of the 1000+ employee facility where I work recently quit on 5 days notice. Do what you gotta.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2019 05:45

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Eric the Mauve posted:

(Important note, most healthcare conglomerates in the U.S. are "nonprofit" with the biggest airquotes ever but are actually very much for-profit companies and don't go in this category.)

lol Ikea is a nonprofit

# ¿ May 7, 2021 12:37

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

# ¿ Sep 3, 2021 15:09

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

PIZZA.BAT posted:

His gimmick appears to be him determining what you should be asking for in terms of comp and then charging a percentage of what he can get you over that amount. Obviously this means he also says you shouldn’t trust sources like levels, glassdoor, or just asking people who work there on linkedin. For anyone who knows the labor market like he assuredly does this is basically him setting himself up with layups.

Definitely a class traitor

# ¿ Sep 29, 2021 20:58

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Eric the Mauve posted:

+1000000

gently caress 'em

# ¿ Nov 5, 2021 20:10

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Shelvocke posted:

I'm a nurse making okay pay in a boarding school rather than hospital setting. I'm pretty good at it; it's a small team and I get a lot of reinforcement from my colleagues and the pupils, but not much/any from anyone leadership wise unless I come to the rescue in a more serious situation (this is happening too frequently at the moment.) The job is secure and comes with a few benefits, like meals and use of the excellent facilities.

Recently they have put through a change in shift patterns that is pretty catastrophic for my social life that *may* increase safety. The job has become less pleasant recently as demands have increased and parents more toxic. This has contributed to me feeling it isn't worth it any more.

I sent a formal list of grievances about the state of things to my manager earlier today, and we're having a meeting later this week. It basically books down to me wanting a not insignificant pay rise if I'm to continue working there (10-20%). The communication also talked about what I bring to the team (a lot) and how I want to continue being there if possible.

Is it crass to straight up ask for more money? I have never done this in my life, but I have another job I do as and when (travel nursing) that I could easily make my main employment. Any tips?

They know you can get 300-400% more travel nursing and that they will pay 300%-400% to replace you but they will refuse the 20% anyway because they don't think you'll actually leave.

Leave.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2022 21:08

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Not a Children posted:

They want to break labor before labor breaks them; they think you won't call their bluff. If they do want to keep you their next trick will be "why are you doing this to the children, they did nothing wrong."

# ¿ Jan 11, 2022 22:15

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Magnetic North posted:

Every time I hear stories about this, I just think "Boy, this has proved that so much of office culture bullshit was a big loving lie, a huge make-work project for pointless middle managers". I wonder at what point historically we could have technologically achieved high levels of remote work, and where we would be if that had had greater adoption for years or even a decade now. If nothing else, productivity would have been higher.

I too have no desire to ever work in an office again unless there is an especially compelling reason, like the work involves an irreplaceable physical aspect to the work itself.

technologically I think the tipping point would be somewhere between 2008 and 2012 but culturally, even if covid had happened 4 years earlier than it did implementation of it would've been sabotaged at every level of government and corporate management because forcing boomers to spend time at home with their families is a war crime.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2022 01:04

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Well just had a first interview with the actual corporate recruiter/HR person, after some back and forth with the outside recruiter. It seemed to go well, and I avoided giving a number.

But one thing I noticed is that she had this habit of repeating my name at the end of every second or third sentence. The external recruiter did the same thing. I'm just curious about which lovely self-help book or Ted Talk they got that from...

That's how you make sure you remember people's names dude

# ¿ Mar 10, 2022 20:23

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 16:16

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Never tell him, but after you accept the position call her up and say you sleep in a big bed with her dad's money

# ¿ May 6, 2022 17:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: What the fuck is wrong with HR?