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Mr. Maltose posted:Let's be real that didn't even register because it was two posts and a mod sensibly stepping in. I'm not going to be the one to devalue the BSS piss brand. We've secretly been piping in TV IV piss for months and nobody has noticed!
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Mar 27, 2016 18:18
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Let's discuss comics again. Songbird secret shield agent is a major bummer. I'm hoping it's a red herring and she'd actually rather be an [new] Avenger than be a mole for Shield who she should have more or less no allegiance to.
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Mar 27, 2016 18:24
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PaybackJack posted:Let's discuss comics again. I have faith that it will be properly explained. Also they list Clint as "ex shield agent" but was that ever actually a thing in the comics? In Fraction's run he worked for them but going back he was never an agent until MCU poo poo started trickling in.
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Mar 27, 2016 18:25
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Rhyno posted:I have faith that it will be properly explained. Also they list Clint as "ex shield agent" but was that ever actually a thing in the comics? In Fraction's run he worked for them but going back he was never an agent until MCU poo poo started trickling in. I think it's referencing the current run. He starts out his current arc working with Shield but goes against them in the most recent issue. So I think the writing of him as a SHIELD agent is going off that. It's believable enough that he could be called in as a middle man in the first issue.
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Mar 27, 2016 18:31
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PaybackJack posted:Let's discuss comics again. Honestly I think if anyone knows the value of "pretend to be working for The Man to keep an eye on ex-villains in order to give those ex-villains the chance to redeem themselves" it'd be the ex-Thunderbolt. Hell, she learned it from watching Hawkeye, after all.
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Mar 27, 2016 18:38
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MonsterWalk posted:So, I'm thinking of jumping back into comics after taking a couple of years off (I stopped buying comics when Secret Warriors ended. (Goddamn, how good was Secret Warrirors?)) I have Marvel Unlimited and I'm catching up. I haven't read any of the new stuff but from what I've gathered reading people's posts you want to pick up the Vision, Deadpool (Duggan written), and the three Avengers. Other good books seem to be the other two team books, captain Marvel, and lady Thor sure. These are also the books i am eagerly awaiting to arrive in MU.
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Mar 27, 2016 18:43
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Mr Hootington posted:I haven't read any of the new stuff but from what I've gathered reading people's posts you want to pick up the Vision, Deadpool (Duggan written), and the three Avengers. Other good books seem to be the other two team books, captain Marvel, and lady Thor sure. Spider-woman is a BSS critical darling despite the bad reputation of the author here, you should check that out. I am loving Mockingbird, Black Widow and Power Man & Iron Fist despite them being so new.
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Mar 27, 2016 18:45
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Today I learned Turner D. Century's birth name was not in fact Turnder D. Century, and I am so disappointed.
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Mar 27, 2016 19:53
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Am I crazy, or is Songbird's costume (and hair) one of the best looks in superhero comics?
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Mar 27, 2016 21:48
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Metalshark posted:Am I crazy, or is Songbird's costume (and hair) one of the best looks in superhero comics? If you're crazy, I'm one padded room over. Bagley kocked it out of the park when he designed that costume. It's also really cool how the shoulder pads look good on their own, but fit her sound-wings perfectly as well.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:40
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Honestly I think if anyone knows the value of "pretend to be working for The Man to keep an eye on ex-villains in order to give those ex-villains the chance to redeem themselves" it'd be the ex-Thunderbolt. Yea, but the group is literally made up of people who are objectively good, save Songbird. Is SHIELD really worried about Squirrel Girl, White Tiger, Wiccan, Hulkling and Sunspot, all people with histories that are nothing but positive?
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Mar 27, 2016 23:16
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Well you see SHEILD is dumb and Maria Hill is super bad at her job, this week.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:13
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twistedmentat posted:Yea, but the group is literally made up of people who are objectively good, save Songbird. Is SHIELD really worried about Squirrel Girl, White Tiger, Wiccan, Hulkling and Sunspot, all people with histories that are nothing but positive? Sunspot was a member of the MLF, brainwashed but part of it. Wiccan has ties to Scarlet Witch. Hulking ties to kree and skrulls too races who have tried to invade multiple times. They have also taken over AIM a known terrorist organization.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:17
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twistedmentat posted:Yea, but the group is literally made up of people who are objectively good, save Songbird. Is SHIELD really worried about Squirrel Girl, White Tiger, Wiccan, Hulkling and Sunspot, all people with histories that are nothing but positive? Actually Sunspot was sort of evil before. He had an evil clone, that could take control of him, named Reignfire that led the MLF which was infiltrated by Moonstar who was really working for SHIELD.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:17
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Rhyno posted:I don't hate it. The OP has gone on record a hundred times that it's poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo gently caress YOU FOR LIKING IT though. The thing that made me speak out about this more than a simple "I didn't like it" which I realize is already setting me up for trouble because LOL WORDS TL;DR WHY DON'T U WRITE A THESIS is that while everyone has different tastes, a large number of posters here a) loved the poo poo out of Nextwave and push it as one of the greatest books ever, beyond being a blanket recommendation to people who are asking for things completely unrelated tonally to Nextwave. There was a good period where people lamented that Marvel wasn't publishing more books in the style of Nextwave, that other writers weren't taking Nextwave as a cue as to how to produce their books, why wasn't everything like Nextwave?? The realistic answer is "because it didn't sell very well, and why would you take a bunch of successful books and try to make them more like less successful books?" If I've been vocal about my annoyance at all of this, imagine a world where everyone around you loving ADORED the late 1990s animated show The PJs. It was an okay show, and had talented people involved like Eddie Murphy and Larry Wilmore. It wasn't that good or successful, though I don't begrudge its existence. Imagine if every time someone asked about the best TV shows to catch up on, someone said THE PJS, WATCH THE PJS IMMEDIATELY. Done with Breaking Bad and looking for a show to binge on? Next stop, THE PJS Really enjoying the political comedy on Veep? WATCH THE PJS How did you like Mad Men? COULD'VE BEEN BETTER IF THEY WERE MORE LIKE THE PJS Has anyone watched the Grinder? I hear it's pretty-- UGH MAYBE PEOPLE WOULD WATCH FOX IF THEY STILL AIRED THE PJS The overlap of Nextwave/PJs lovers and people who post low/zero content posts of UGH I JUST LOVE/HATE IT WHY YOU WANT WORDS ABOUT THING? was/is generally pretty high too. Rhyno posted:I have faith that it will be properly explained. Also they list Clint as "ex shield agent" but was that ever actually a thing in the comics? In Fraction's run he worked for them but going back he was never an agent until MCU poo poo started trickling in. WickedHate posted:Today I learned Turner D. Century's birth name was not in fact Turnder D. Century, and I am so disappointed. twistedmentat posted:Yea, but the group is literally made up of people who are objectively good, save Songbird. Is SHIELD really worried about Squirrel Girl, White Tiger, Wiccan, Hulkling and Sunspot, all people with histories that are nothing but positive? Sunspot: Son of an evil Hellfire Club dude, repeatedly quit Xavier's school in a rage, eventually falling in with some evil mutants and then turning into Reignfire, then joined the Hellfire Club himself, later purchasing AIM Wiccan: An untrained magic user whose untrained magic using mother caused multiple catastrophes, who almost caused one himself (and nearly causes another immediately upon the team forming), who went anti-registration, is possibly forged from a shard of Mephisto's soul Hulkling: Another anti-registration fighter whose parentage has brought multiple galactic conflicts to Earth, almost does do again immediately upon the team forming Pod: A girl who bonded with an alien intelligent armor created iby Ex Nihilo "seeding" the Earth, an act which killed multiple millions of people, then immediately captured and experimented on by the still-Evil version of AIM Max Brashear: Blue Marvel's kid who literally turned into a supervillain to get back at his Dad, has apparently made up with him but still White Tiger: I mean, I feel like half of the people who have used her amulet have gone bad over the years, they've been described as evil/malevolent, and there is a murderous tiger god attached to them Power Man: He seems like a good kid, but SHIELD probably racially profiles like everyone else Squirrel Girl: Maybe they just want to know how to beat her? Plus the whole "powerful superteam on a sovereign island flying the flag of a longtime evil organization" is bound to raise a red flag with anyone.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:33
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Plus SHIELD themselves are morally in the negative right now. They're not exactly GI Joe anymore. Suffice to say being a good guy is not sufficient reason for them to not gently caress with you. Hell, OG Nick Fury would have splattered Spider-Man's brains across Manhattan if not for a random gut instinct.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:56
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WickedHate posted:Plus SHIELD themselves are morally in the negative right now. They're not exactly GI Joe anymore. Suffice to say being a good guy is not sufficient reason for them to not gently caress with you. Hell, OG Nick Fury would have splattered Spider-Man's brains across Manhattan if not for a random gut instinct. This was a stupid retcon. I wish Nick Fury would come back. Is Fury Jr. even in any comics at the moment?
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Mar 28, 2016 01:09
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Has there been anything to indicate yet which Nick Fury is on the scene post-Battleworld? Is it the hilariously hamfisted son of Nick they conjured up a few years back or the actual Ultimate version? Either way, it wouldn't surprise me if this latest Hill led clusterfuck is simply an excuse to get her out of the picture and put Fury back in the top job, pretty much no one can stand her at this point.
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Mar 28, 2016 01:43
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Mr Hootington posted:This was a stupid retcon. I wish Nick Fury would come back. Agents of SHIELD, I believe. He's also in Amazing Spider-Man when the Zodiac stuff comes up. Sentinel Red posted:Has there been anything to indicate yet which Nick Fury is on the scene post-Battleworld? Is it the hilariously hamfisted son of Nick they conjured up a few years back or the actual Ultimate version? Either way, it wouldn't surprise me if this latest Hill led clusterfuck is simply an excuse to get her out of the picture and put Fury back in the top job, pretty much no one can stand her at this point. It's explicitly Nick Fury Jr.
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Mar 28, 2016 02:29
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As a wrestling fan I'm surprised to hear you arguing the WWE corporate mentality for the last 10 years. (No, we don't need a roster of John Cenas). I get maybe you're not saying every book should be like the one that doesn't sell that well but there's a lot of books that fall under the radar and aren't pushed or promoted, particularly those with C-list lineups. I mean how well is Illuminati selling right now? Even stuff like Squirrel Girl is a word of mouth thing and there was far less internet buzz when Nextwave came out than now. Sure BSS was around but I don't think I was reading/posting in BSS when NextWave was in print. I don't think I even bought the issues until the series was half done. In some ways you're rehashing the Punk/Cena debate. Could a book like Nextwave get over more if it had more weight and importance behind it? Well maybe it could but we'll never know because it's going to play second fiddle to the Avengers/Spider-Man/X-Men related books of the world. Anyway at a time like this, when Marvel is pushing a bunch of new ideas. Doing a Nextwave style comedy book with some other C-List guys is probably not a bad idea. I mean that's basically what Contest of Champions is, except it's actually serious.
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Mar 28, 2016 02:32
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Squizzle posted:Congrats! Thanks :-) It's been a pretty good time for reading comics actually, since they're much better for reading in short bursts than normal books and require a bit less mental effort. Got through a bunch of Hawkeye, Dial H, Spiderwoman, Squirrel Girl and Patsy Walker.
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Mar 28, 2016 02:37
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twistedmentat posted:Yea, but the group is literally made up of people who are objectively good, save Songbird. Is SHIELD really worried about Squirrel Girl, White Tiger, Wiccan, Hulkling and Sunspot, all people with histories that are nothing but positive? Beyond all the "here is why SHIELD might be suspicious of the individual team members" they're also running loving AIM. I mean, if the ten best dudes you know all got together and took over the KKK, even if you know all ten of them are great dudes who would never do anything wrong or hateful, you still have to be concerned about the thousand dudes standing behind them in white robes saying "sure, boss, you betcha, no more hate, nothing but charity work and soup kitchens from now on, you got it!"
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Mar 28, 2016 02:52
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I wish Angel hadn't been canned.
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Mar 28, 2016 02:56
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Lurdiak posted:I wish Angel hadn't been canned. drat it, that was what I was going to compare it to! To be fair, I would be a pretty excellent Grand Wizard. There'd be free pizza and doughnuts every day.
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Mar 28, 2016 03:02
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Alternately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q4txN1ut20
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Mar 28, 2016 03:04
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Beyond all the "here is why SHIELD might be suspicious of the individual team members" they're also running loving AIM. That's also assuming they aren't mind controlled into being the public face and bad guys are still at the helm behind the scenes. That's gotta be everyone's first guess.
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Mar 28, 2016 03:05
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That isn't really an apt comparison. In a lot of ways, wrestling is a zero sum game. If you're giving twenty minutes to John Cena to cut a promo, that's twenty minutes of airtime you could be giving to [insert whatever wrestler you think is Nextwave]. If you have Big Show interupt a [Nextwave] match and effortlessly chump [Nextwave], people will see [Nextwave] as lovely compared to Big Show. If [Nextwave] isn't given any time to shine on television, it will become an afterthought. If [Nextwave] never is given an angle to get it on a PPV, it's going to lose money and lose prestige. In the reality of the comic book world, Nextwave launched and came out for twelve issues and didn't sell very well. It didn't sell awfully, but it was barely above the cancellation line after twelve issues. Warren Ellis and Stuart Immonen were both demanding money that was not at all in line with the amount of money a book like Nextwave was bringing in, so the decision was made not to continue it. Ellis got Thunderbolts (and newUniversal), Immonen got Ultimate Spider-Man. None of these things are very similar to Nextwave, neither are any of the projects both men have taken on in the decade since Nextwave ended, and almost all of them have been far more popular overall. I'm not even sure how to translate this into wrestling terms. Is it that WWE buried Reverend D-Von and the Deacon Batista characters, and even though the Dudleys Boys and Evolution both did waaaaay better than that evil preacher gimmick, we should still be mad that the evil preacher gimmick got "buried" in the name of... I don't know, corporate mentality? I can see someone (with a taste for sleeveless blazers) making that argument, but I still don't see the comparison. This isn't the mentality of "ONLY LIKE ONE THING AND WE'LL TELL YOU WHAT THAT ONE THING IS", or else every big Marvel book would still be an X-Men crossover written by Scott Lobdell and Fabian Nicieza. In the period Nextwave was being published, Marvel was also publishing (amongst other things): Agents of Atlas, Annihilation, Astonishing X-Men (Whedon/Cassaday), Black Panther (Hudlin), Cable & Deadpool, Captain America (Brubaker), Daredevil (Bendis/Brubaker), Dr. Strange The Oath, Eternals (Gaiman/JRJR), Immortal Iron Fist, Marvel Zombies, New Avengers (Bendis) Planet Hulk, Punisher MAX , Runaways, She-Hulk (Dan Slott), Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, Ultimate Spider-Man, X-Factor (Peter David), X-Men First Class, and an X-Statix mini-series. Some of these only went on for one arc, some got multiple second chances, some became huge hits, either directly or leading into bigger things for the creative teams. Which one of these is the "John Cena"? And sure, doing comedy books is always good, I like comedy a lot, I just didn't care for Nextwave's brand of comedy. Marvel is running several comedy books right now, with varying degrees of sales and quality, but they're still putting them out. The thing that annoyed me then (and would annoy me now if someone was sincerely saying it) is not that Nextwave (or Squirrel Girl) should have the right to exist, it's not even "more people should read them", it's the attitude that New Avengers would be better if it was written like Nextwave. That rather than dumb old boring Iron Fist or Black Panther, that they should publish a wacky Bender Machine Man solo series. People were loving nuts for Nextwave. Back to wrestling, the New Day are wacky. I really like the New Day. I don't think that Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn need to try to sell their feud in the style of the New Day. I don't want Dean Ambrose to be all New Day in order to take on Brock Lesnar. I would love to see Cesaro get a serious push, but he shouldn't try to play the trombone and wear a unicorn horn to get a good match for Summerslam. That would all get super old super fast, just as it does when they shove Roman Reigns/Sheamus/whoever else as a John Cena clone down people's throats. If Marvel had a stolid "house style" book and they were publishing 50 practically identical-in-tone books (and Nextwave) I could see your comparison, but they weren't and they aren't. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 04:46
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Can Sienkiewicz's New Mutants issues be read by alone, or should I go through the first 17 issues first?
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Mar 28, 2016 04:57
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It's funny looking at it in historical context like that because except for Hudlin's Black Panther and arguably (I'd argue against it) Marvel Zombies all those contemporary books E&C listed are way better than Nextwave
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Mar 28, 2016 05:10
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Edge & Christian posted:If I've been vocal about my annoyance at all of this, imagine a world where everyone around you loving ADORED the late 1990s animated show The PJs. It was an okay show, and had talented people involved like Eddie Murphy and Larry Wilmore. It wasn't that good or successful, though I don't begrudge its existence. Imagine if every time someone asked about the best TV shows to catch up on, someone said THE PJS, WATCH THE PJS IMMEDIATELY. This is every single day in TV IV, but with Person of Interest.
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Mar 28, 2016 05:21
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Aphrodite posted:This is every single day in TV IV, but with Person of Interest. And games with Dark Souls.
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Mar 28, 2016 05:24
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Dark souls is actually good tho.
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Mar 28, 2016 05:28
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You're right it's not really an apt comparison and you took the analogy out a bit further than I was taking it but that's the fallacy of them so there you go. There are a lot more differences on both sides that go into the production and marketing to equate a single wrestler with a single comic. I don't know where you get people wanting New Avengers to be like Nextwave from. I don't see people saying that, but I think when you compare something mediocre to something that was good, even if they fill different spaces you'd rather them both to be good and the same instead of different and good/mediocre. For example, there's probably a lot of people who are feeling bored/disinterested in Better Call Saul and wish it was more like Breaking Bad. Obviously the two shows are different but those people could very well get their way by the end of the series if viewership starts to drop off. Breaking Bad's first season was pretty low viewership as well, but had strong critical reviews and had a huge following by the end. My point here is that if there was a boring book, like say Black Knight was, rather than be a boring story that's different from Nextwave but bad, it's better that it's like Nextwave and good. Obviously there's no guarantee that Black Knight written like Nextwave would be good, but perhaps it might still be better than Black Knight written as it was that got it cancelled in 5 issues, all other things being equal. edit: I think your TV show comparison with the PJs is probably better served being replaced with The Wire. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 05:34
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CharlestheHammer posted:Dark souls is actually good tho. What, and you're implying person of interest isn't? 
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Mar 28, 2016 05:52
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PaybackJack posted:I don't know where you get people wanting New Avengers to be like Nextwave from. I don't see people saying that, but I think when you compare something mediocre to something that was good, even if they fill different spaces you'd rather them both to be good and the same instead of different and good/mediocre. quote:For example, there's probably a lot of people who are feeling bored/disinterested in Better Call Saul and wish it was more like Breaking Bad. Obviously the two shows are different but those people could very well get their way by the end of the series if viewership starts to drop off. Breaking Bad's first season was pretty low viewership as well, but had strong critical reviews and had a huge following by the end. quote:My point here is that if there was a boring book, like say Black Knight was, rather than be a boring story that's different from Nextwave but bad, it's better that it's like Nextwave and good. Obviously there's no guarantee that Black Knight written like Nextwave would be good, but perhaps it might still be better than Black Knight written as it was that got it cancelled in 5 issues, all other things being equal. Though really, the key to making Black Knight a decent book is probably just to not have Frank Tieri write it. Frank Tieri is demonstrably bad at writing straight superheroes, at writing antiheroes, at writing crime stories, at writing political intrigue, and I'm guessing at writing fantasy in the Black Knight. He'd be really lovely at writing a Nextwave pastiche too I bet. This is kind of like the argument about Nick Spencer's Assault on Pleasant Hill I had the other week. I jumped immediately to calling it a lovely homage to Lost, but people correctly pointed out it was more of a lovely homage to the Prisoner, or even more directly a lovely version of Wayward Pines. It may have been a combination of all three, but at the end of the day it was still lovely. quote:edit: I think your TV show comparison with the PJs is probably better served being replaced with The Wire. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 05:58
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Watchmen wishes it was the PJs.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:23
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The PJs wishes it was the 1987 Montreal Expos
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Mar 28, 2016 06:34
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Don't we all.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:36
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Please stop posting spoilers for Identity Crisis 2.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:38
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Teenage Fansub posted:Can Sienkiewicz's New Mutants issues be read by alone, or should I go through the first 17 issues first? It's under the Jim Shooter era, so there's a lot of exposition, and the characters involved are all still relatively young, but I'd read the first 17 issues first. You'd probably get more out of it that way.
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