Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Dang, actually assaulting the Jedi homeworld as a single dude? I would have figured this for a flashpoint.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Dolash posted:

Oh hey, the droid designer, isn't that the guy who gave Rand'ayn combat tests way back in the day? Neat if they're actually having you kill the staff who the Republic players interacted with. I wonder how many more of the Jedi PCs' acquaintances are on the chopping block?

Is it really a chopping block when there's bacta, or whatever it is that doesn't make every new character hardcore mode?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Oh, lord, are they looking for an ancient Jedi secret? I'll save you the trouble, chaps: the true power of the Force was inside you all along.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
"The newbie zone has changed" is always a neat card to play in an MMO, and seeing it from the other end only makes sense.

How many people only played one side in this game, anyhow?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Oh, you actually get to take your tutorial zone back? Or is that just a statement of general intent at the end there?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Those are some impressive smug eyebrows.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
"It's all happening, and you can't stop it."

Got top marks on generic platitudes, did we?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Huh. The rank-and-file troops on either side are just... identical? Well, I suppose there are only so many mechanically distinct variations on "dude with gun".

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

PoptartsNinja posted:

No, see, it's funny because he's a silent antagonist and :geno:

The trouble with a dude who really believes in emptiness is that he never explains anything.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Is cross-faction co-op stirring in the depths of the Force?

Or had that been a thing for a while when this content was new?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I like the droid bandolier. This is why you let the Wookiee win, one assumes.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

PoptartsNinja posted:

This is what I was trying to imply, yeah. It's OK to repeat plot points and set-pieces from time to time, and sometimes it's even unavoidable if you want to tell a good story. But when the plot points in question are major, reusing an empire-spanning conspiracy so 'soon' (chronologically, not in terms of actual production time) so soon after the end of your best story arc is probably a mistake. Makeb does act as a bit of a buffer between Shadows and the Agent's storyline, but Bioware doesn't always do the best job rearranging plot elements to tell new stories with similar scenes.

I could give some examples but some of them are spoilers for upcoming content that I am aware of but haven't played. Mostly I have Mort make comments like that to see if what we get is different than what the set-up makes me expect.

Well, "galactic conspiracy" is one of the few avenues left to pursue at this point, since your PC is influential enough by this point that any given internal faction crisis could be feasibly dealt with just pointing and saying "cut it out".

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

PoptartsNinja posted:

It was pretty much the pattern straight out of early City of Heroes ( 3 mooks = 2 lieutenants / silvers = 1 boss / gold ) which is why it stands out to me since City of Heroes learned reasonably early that the 3/2/1 pyramid isn't all that great.

I think more games need to steal CoH's difficulty sliders (you could chose to fight normal encounters, set it to fight big groups with more minions, pairs or small groups of harder enemies, and even set how the enemies scaled in relation to you for added challenge). CoH could get away with that because it was heavily instanced (TOR is too, for missions at least), but CoH had mob group sizes scale the more people were in a group and TOR was never designed with that in mind.

Early TOR used a bunch of common MMO design themes without much regard as to why they were doing so at the time. All things considered they didn't do as badly as they might've, but they still fell short of the mark in some places.

It was really the scaling up that made CoH work, since even if you did instanced missions you'd occasionally encounter groups of -1 level spawning for +1 heroes. Or even -2/+2 in extreme cases. And they stacked the pyramid differently for different enemy groups, too. Some groups had sub-minions, which only counted for half a minion because they were weaker or disadvantaged in some way -- this is the Vahzilok and their hordes of zombies. The Button Men tended to favor hordes of mooks with one or two heavies, the Circle of Thorns would pop out single notable bosses for as little as two heroes.

Even though they largely dropped it for CoV and later, the overworld was its own difficulty slider - normal zones spat out groups for 1-3 heroes, hazard zones for 2-6, trial zones 5-8. Or something like that, anyway. It's... getting harder and harder to remember.

But yeah, actual hordes of dudes were possible with underlings, which were like four or five to the minion. ...or in certain more-story-than-plot mission, where you were playing either your invincible future self or some big-name hero from one side or another.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I do like that the Wookiee's most dangerous weapon is whatever he just picked up.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Strange that the Sith is the one who gets the clearest SAVE THE GALAXY motivation.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I dunno, responding to some dude hyping you up as pirate scum with "I am the Emperor's Wrath. I AM HATE INCARNATE." seems like some pretty good times, or at least pleasantly adequate times.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Good lord, what a stunning defense against having your will manipulated: being so incompetent you can't be trusted to do anything. I am agog, sir.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
So we're basically assembling our own lovable ragtag pirate crew?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I suppose this is a disadvantage to being a dread pirate -- everyone can see you coming and destroy all the valuables.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
What's the more diplomatic means to talk to the probation officer about stuff he doesn't have clearance for?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
So the Inquisitor gets immortality, and the Warrior gets... called on the carpet for distracting himself with this so-called "end-game content"?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I really like that little sequence. It feels like the sort of thing you should be doing, like, all the time.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Really, aren't all flashpoints just combat-fests where nothing that happens can actually matter in the plot, since they're all optional?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Doctor Reynolds posted:

An RPG that starts off with normal combat that, once you hit a certain point, non-boss fights just stop due to your infamy, would be pretty drat awesome.

Isn't a boss rush kind of the most boring part of an RPG?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I wonder what Revan was trying to do to Theron. Convert him, maybe? It doesn't seem like he needed all that much in the way of intelligence.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I think by this point in the game if anyone has objection to your preferred mode of dress they can consult the thousands and thousands of lives you've snuffed out to find how much you care.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Exactly what kind of intervention could either of those guys do with a shouty madman? I'm pretty sure somebody who only sees kibble isn't going to be motivated much by pain.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I was going to ask about the non-force classes.

So... huh.

Omnitaser?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I do like the hologram-as-method-of-self-reflection. That one's pretty cool. The choices aren't being offered to you by anyone but you, as befits the end game.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
So is Yuun your straight man, or did you have one of those and he's your comically straight man?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
It actually would be kind of hilarious if the spymaster did something completely disconnected from this whole Revan plotline that just coincidentally happened to use the same art assets.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I appreciate the final battle, even if you're probably superfluous unless you're somehow coordinating everyone's best attacks.

The plot is just... why the gently caress would you announce yourself like some kind of Republic serial villain?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Sixth Line. I guess that's one better than Fifth Freedom?

I have a feeling they're trying to play this more cloaky daggerous, but I have no idea if that's right.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I'm guessing at least that the Emperor can't actually possess people while they're in space, or send possessed people into space. At least not yet.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Go go good team!

Yeah, I know it's inaccurate, but "galaxy not being devoured by the Emperor team" doesn't really roll off the tongue.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
...I suppose proper Sith Lords shoot people with lightning that comes out of their hands, not lightning that comes out of machines?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Wow. So... is ashing an entire planet power coming out of the Emperor, or power going in?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
It feels like "Trooper" is kind of a class with... mechanical reasons to exist, but not story reasons? Like, the answer to "what does a Republic soldier do" was never really developed beyond "go on missions I guess?"

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Is a gestalt robot intelligence really a giant pile of slaves to a single master? Or is it more like, uh, Democritus?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I dunno, SR-1 has a point. Why would you build combat robots if you were also willing to throw flesh-and-blood soldiers into the meatgrinder?

I suppose when the other side's also building combat robots you've got to keep the numbers up.

  • Locked thread