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Wheeee posted:Bathrooms should all be unisex, gently caress it. Yeah, really the problem is that trans people are direct attacks on our existing world of gender segregation, where men and women were different species, who had to be protected and infantalized in different ways. Basically, we're still working on actually integrating women as accepted parts of society as equals and not just property to be protected (and doing this in a way without discounting the value of femininity!).
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Mar 22, 2016 22:45
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Octatonic posted:what is it with men and being so into this whole peeing standing up thing. why is it such a big deal to you all? you should just sit and relax like normal people. It's a little quicker, ideally. Like if you just have to pee, a urinal will usually be quicker, simply because you don't have to close a door, or pull down your pants. That's usually the reason the men's room line goes a bit faster. Interestingly, women's urinals partially fell out of favor because dresses fell out of favor. They were basically like a little cistern you stand over and just let go, which matched the way most women did it in the old days, go find a corner, pull your dress/skirt up a bit and go, because you're not wearing underwear! Perhaps the solution is kilts for everyone! But yes, modern masculinity is a miserable little pile of insecurities.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:57
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Horking Delight posted:But how do you feel about people who start wanting to go by a name that isn't really their name? Like Bill instead of William? Or even worse, Ted instead of Rafael? Deviants attempting to mask our ability to control them through knowing their true names.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:09
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XMNN posted:I would laugh if one of my friends started insisted on being called eg Blade or something You should look at the etymology of names. They are all just words now foreign to us that meant cool things like Blade or Strongman or Who Is Like God? and poo poo like that. It's just we took them from the Bible so we didn't actually know the meaning just thought they sounded cool, like a guy getting a Chinese Character tattoo. I'm a healer!
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Mar 22, 2016 23:14
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Effectronica posted:What should be the fine for crossdressing? Should we encourage women to stop wearing suits? Should being butch or fem be criminalized? Have you thought this out beyond a childish, "I don't feel comfortable with this so I'll encrust my gut feeling with blather?" Law & Order: Gender Crimes Unit.  "What do we got here, Fin?" "It's a new gender the kids are calling the Columbus Porcupine, you spike your hair and wear a flame shirt as a skirt. Kid ended up on the Food Network because of it, saying his pronouns were 'flavor'"
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Mar 23, 2016 00:15
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We're not against welfare in general for good, hardworking people, we're just against welfare queens gaming the system! We're not against abortions in general for women, we're just against teenagers having abortions because they have sex at random!
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Mar 23, 2016 00:50
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Frosted Flake posted:I think someone touched on this, when you meet a man or woman, gay or straight they don't put their identity on the forefront when you meet them. But they do, and we as a society highly expect them to. We're walking with a person, going to the bathroom, and they go into the same one despite us thinking they were the other gender, we treat them as wrong for failing to perform their gender correctly. And that's not necessarily right. The comparisons to race are interesting because it's really the same problem from an egalitarian standpoint. It shouldn't change how we treat people or generally be a concern what race people are any more than we're concerned with eye color. At the same time, outright performances of "blackness" are often treated very poorly, starting with the common hostility to AAVE. This is because just the same as women and men, we've divided a society into castes, and still have much of that baggage left. And getting rid of that is going to definitely be uncomfortable to those that are used to it. Basically, gender is socially constructed as is language. Humans have a natural desire and need to learn a language to communicate, but they don't have a natural desire to learn English. Especially the particular English of right now. Gender is a strong way in which we are taught to define and understand ourselves, but that doesn't mean the way we do it is the only way, the necessary way, or the right way.
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Mar 23, 2016 22:35
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blowfish posted:Murdered pedestrians and mildly hurt feelings: literally the same thing.  does not mean acknowledging the biological basis for our definitions of gender, just as we'd be mistaken to not acknowledge the phenotypical definitions that served as definitions of race. It means looking at those through lovely evolutionary psychology and assuming that it's hard law that only fools buck.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:27
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Like knowing that those with vaginae have completely different health concerns is important, as is realizing that the most common prescription for asthma doesn't work for most black people.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:30
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blowfish posted:Well then something got messed up during these peoples' socialisation because if "oh no I got mistaken for the wrong It's not the single instance. It's doing that daily. From everyone. And being chided if you complain. Being told you're wrong or insane (as you're doing now). From everyone. Daily. Being treated as if you're a sexual predator or a fetish. From everyone. Daily. Privilege is best understood as being able to not care about that poo poo, because no one ever questions or, and those that do so are considered crazy or being silly.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:39
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The Kingfish posted:I think gender queer xepeople like to be victimized, yes. I think transsexual people are just normal folk. Ha. You should talk to some women struggling to thread the needle of being respected in the business world while not being reduced to a bitch or harpy. You should talk about the day that women found out that they were a woman, and not just one of the guys. Or the many men who honestly need a football player to sell them yogurt in a black container to convince them it's not gay. Or the men who are killing themselves because they don't want to go to the hospital because they're weak. Talk to the men who were screamed at and beat up because they thought She-ra is cool. You should talk to people who had to go through years of speech therapy to be understood in their native language, and who have had to engage in accent removal theory to be taken seriously. Or just consider the every day normal person who chooses their words carefully because they are well aware of the various landmines that can offend or alienate people. We all have to put varying levels of thought into being part of society. No one naturally lives in it, otherwise we'd not even have the idea of childhood in the first place (which is itself a recent idea).
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Mar 24, 2016 03:28
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The Kingfish posted:No you couldn't, doofus. My point is that these are not outliers or special circumstances at all. Part of the reason why Gamergate existed is because men found a way to express masculinity in a non traditional way, and as it's become less of a boy's club their power and security within their tangled up gender role seems to be under attack. The other point is that if you've even read a little bit of say, Judy Blume, that womanhood is not something that comes naturally to most women without the history of gender policing and essentialism that becomes clear during puberty. You on one hand recognize society's hand in shaping its members, but fail to recognize the process of individuation everyone still must go through to be more than a cog in society's machine.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:41
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:I've already posited a question for you that you haven't answered. Please do not skip questions. You will not receive full credit. I'm on your side here but that last part is not true. Obviously "I" and "you" in the sentence I've written is different. "Thou" and "you" had different connotations, and there's a reason no one is seriously suggesting "it" for trans people. Yes, the same pronoun group can be reused in the same sentence as in "He gave it to him", but there is definitely a different meaning in "he gave it to her", especially if "him" and "her" are both reasonable referents in the current conversation. (And that last one shows one of the few flaws of singular they, but it's worth it.) foobardog fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 04:01
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:Fair enough. I meant out of any context in a vague sense, but even then it's a very poor point and you're right to pick it out. Yeah, there's a lot of things in English that don't seem to have a well defined meaning, but are vital to be considered a fluent speaker. I don't envy anyone trying to understand articles like "a" and "the" coming from a language that doesn't have them.
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Mar 24, 2016 04:09
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:e: I sound weirdly "hm yes humble" in this post but I'm just distracted. I made a bad aside and you're right, is what I mean. Nah, don't worry about it, debates often get so awful because people can't let themselves concede any ground.
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Mar 24, 2016 04:11
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