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OK, here is my horrible take on the subject. Ready? Trans people should only be allowed to use the type of bathroom that corresponds to their legal sex. At some point you gotta draw a line between the genderfluid dweebs and the real transgender people. Legal sex could be this line. If you went to all the trouble to change your legal sex, you are probably pretty serious about it. If people ask nicely about using a specific pronoun, I will use it. Cause, why not? But i'm not going out of my way to learn new random pronouns of the day and try to "apply" them by myself. gently caress that, I'm way too old for that poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:11
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The Kingfish posted:Why is it valid to personally identify as a member of one social construct and not the other? There is no difference between gender and religious identity. It's actually OK to make fun of gender. lovely comedians and TV show producers have turned bad woman/men jokes into a multi billion $ industry.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:35
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blowfish posted:Everyone should agree this is a good thing. Genitals are a thing people usually have and people shouldn't get too worked up over things everyone has. I dunno. I'm kinda tall and slavic looking, but each time I see a drunk hobo washing his pants in the bathroom sink I'm still a little bit scared inside. I think a lot of woman would find such a situation terrifying and rather resort to adult diapers.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:48
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Effectronica posted:I'm fascinated by the notion that we need to differentiate between authentic "trans" status and inauthentic "genderfluid" status, because the one is associated with a medical condition and the other is not. It merely reinforces the idea that, ideally, there would be no gender deviance beyond what is medically prescribed. A quaint and interesting notion. You are missing the point. You can be whatever you want outside public toilets, it's a free country and I don't judge. But as far as public bathrooms are concerned, woman and men have a right to feel safe and free from creeps in them. The only way to do it in a fair way is to have some kind of formal, objective process to recognize a sex change. Self-gendering can't work with public bathrooms. It's bad that some countries/states make this process unnecessarily complicated. It shouldn't be that way.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:14
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Effectronica posted:Lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, and breeders aren't incapable of being creeps by virtue of cisgender status, mein freund. This line of reasoning, apart from "appeal-to-bigotry" special cases, leads inevitably to single-person bathrooms. Same-sex sexual harassment and violence is almost non existent, compared to heterosexual harassment and violence.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:15
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Effectronica posted:Actually, not true. In terms of reported crimes, LGB people commit more sexual violence than straight women. Holy poo poo, not a single person in this thread is against trans people using their desired bathroom. This is about a forty years old drunk hobo shouting that he is now genderfluid and quickly gonna rub one out in the woman bathroom.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:31
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Effectronica posted:There is nothing stopping someone from putting drag on and doing this right now. Except for laws, fear of consequences, social taboos, etc. quote:There will never be a way of fully stopping this without totalitarian brutality, single-person restrooms, or unisex restrooms. Actually, non-transgender people are pretty satisfied with the current arrangement. No need for totalitarianism at all. quote:Furthermore, there's no magic test to determine an authentic trans person, so I fail to see why you're specifying "genderfluid," here. No need for magic tests. Legally changing your sex is such a hassle that it is reasonable to assume that, for the most part, only people who genuinely want to live as a transman/transwoman are gonna do it. There are no genderfluid bathrooms, you go into the man or woman bathroom. That's why I'm singling it out.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:58
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Effectronica posted:How do you stop people who pass from entering the bathroom, as waitwhatno is saying? Like, I get that your neural network looks like a pair of parallel lines, but please answer what is actually being written. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, what the gently caress? Right now men don't go into woman bathrooms. If you create unisex bathrooms, man will go into the same bathrooms as woman. You do understand this, right? It doesn't matter why men don't go into woman bathrooms, be it a forcefield or magic or whatever, they just don't go in there.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:26
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Effectronica posted:I am asking how this is to be enforced. If that's not what you meant, please retract it instead of acting incredulous when I respond to the words that you say. How do we currently enforce that men don't go into woman bathroom? Whatever it is, it works fantastic. Can you figure out what it is?
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Mar 23, 2016 01:35
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Effectronica posted:You seem to be deliberately misunderstanding the question. OK, I can already see that you are not going to come up with the solution. Here is the answer: For the most part, people follow social norms and rules willingly, without the need to enforce them through violence or intimidation.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:57
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