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SSNeoman posted:"Religious personal identity" is actually not a thing. You can't identify as a religion in the same way you identify as a certain gender. You are a member of Club Christianity, you are not Christianity itself. Why is it valid to personally identify as a member of one social construct and not the other? There is no difference between gender and religious identity.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:19
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A couple years ago this thread would have accused someone talking about xe/xer pronouns of concern trolling because they are obviously ridiculous. Now they are cool and good I guess?
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Mar 23, 2016 19:56
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OwlFancier posted:Some people want to be men, some people want to be women, some people want to be something else, some people want to be any and all of the above. And some people want to live a life free from the specter of employment: this, I assume, is where xe/xer comes into play.
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Mar 23, 2016 20:10
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Performing gender is a two-way street. Fantasy genders rightfully make people uncomfortable because they have no idea how to perform their own gender around starchild genderblobs. E: weirdos can obviously call themselves whatever they want, as long as they don't expect to be taken seriously in an interview/application/classroom/anywhere outside of their hugbox. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 20:25
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Frosted Flake posted:If a Man/Woman/Them can be, do, look like, act like anything, why be a xe? Because that way they always get to be a persecuted underdog.
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Mar 23, 2016 20:33
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Who What Now posted:Yes, I'm sure you've seen all sorts of memes and tumblr posts about it. The Kingfish posted:Performing gender is a two-way street. Plus it's annoying and hard to remember. Also it's made up and it's stupid. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 21:36
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Who What Now posted:So you think queers are icky. And? That is the second time you've ignored content of my post. This sort of targeted intellectual ostracization is highly othering.
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Mar 23, 2016 21:49
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:Trans identities aren't "self-constructed" and everything you tried to say about "being respectful" about trans people is a bold faced lie. You have a huge chip on your shoulder about trans people and you need to go and examine what bigotry and problems you have somewhere far away. Trans identities are absolutely self-constructed. Trans people identify themselves the way they believe they would if they had been socialized as the opposite sex. Doubly so for xitards who just make their identity up as they go.
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Mar 24, 2016 02:41
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OwlFancier posted:"Hey it would mean a lot to me if you'd say xe instead of he when you talk about me." *uses they instead* "WHAT THE gently caress IS WRONG WITH YOU?!? NOW I'M GOING HOME TO KILL MYSELF!!!!"
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Mar 24, 2016 02:46
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:Explain to me why trans identities are self constructed and cis identities aren't. All identities are self-constructed to a point. Cisgender identities are constructed subconsciously. DeusExMachinima posted:Serious question: What does "xir" or any other rare pronoun like that mean that he/she/non-binary (the singular they) doesn't already cover? Is there a commonly accepted definition of xir? "I derive pleasure from the attention I receive when others have to use my weird pronouns. I also like to feel victimized."
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Mar 24, 2016 02:51
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:No one said that. However, multiple people in this thread, yourself included, have said the other thing. People in this thread have said they will use "they." The exact response I gave in the last post. E: realistically speaking, I would agree to call them whatever to avoid conflict and then just not do it. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 02:52
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Who What Now posted:A thought just occurred to me. What, exactly, is even wrong with being a "special snowflake"? What, are some of you proud of being without any sense of individuality? Do you take solace in your dull, bland, existences that are completely identical to so many others? Is that something that people should strive for? People should distinguish themselves by their actions. Not by creating their own bland self-indulgent nicknames. It's like the absolute opposite of having an interesting personality.
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Mar 24, 2016 02:56
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:You think there's an inherent difference between cisgender and transgender identities and you believe trans people like to be victimized. I think gender queer xepeople like to be victimized, yes. I think transsexual people are just normal folk who got unlucky with their genes or whatev. A cis woman acts without considering how to perform her gender because she does so subconsciously, a trans women, depending on how long ago her transition was, might have to consider how best to perform her new gender. It's like how speaking your native language takes zero conscious effort because your brain developed while you were immersed in that language. If you learn another language later in life, then it's words will come less naturally to you and it will be difficult to speak without thinking until you have spent a long time immersed in the new language. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 03:08
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OwlFancier posted:How does that not apply to someone who does not want to be either male or female? How does what not apply?
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Mar 24, 2016 03:11
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:No one likes to be victimized, and that is a very fundamental flaw that you don't understand. You asked for a difference in how cis and trans people identity and that's exactly what I gave you. There is no gender without performance so I don't really know what you think you are asking.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:16
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OwlFancier posted:What is the difference between what you described as being the experience of cis and trans people and those who identify as nonbinary? Trans people adopt the performance of the gender that is typically assigned to the body that they feel they should have. Non binary people adopt the performance of a gender which they create because of whatever reason. They do not perform the same way others do because they do not have a conception of a "correct" performance of their gender the way that cis and trans people do. Xepeople adopt the performance of a gender which they create and have also come up with a cute name for it to draw attention to the fact that they are different from everybody else.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:26
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:In that case someone could argue that butch women aren't "women" in the same way that feminine women are, which is absolutely ridiculous. No you couldn't, doofus. E:^ and yet none of those examples have any barring on my point- that cis and trans women experience and perform their identities in different ways. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 03:29
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Who What Now posted:That would certainly explain why you're trying as hard as you are to be a victim here. Atasnaya Vaflja posted:If it's all about "performance" like you said then yes you could. If it's all about performance and perception like you've put it down to multiple times now, people absolutely could (and have) argue it. I'm not here educate you. Why don't you make a fricken effort post if you wanna debate and discuss?
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Mar 24, 2016 03:35
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Who What Now posted:Then why are you arguing so hard that making a slightly different sound with your mouth is some sort of impossible burden? I'm not saying that it's difficult though? It would be easy for me to do. I could do it, but I wouldn't because I think it's stupid. E: it would be trivially easy for me to do. I am extremely good at making sounds with my mouth, and the sounds necessary probably aren't even that hard. I say probably because I have no idea how to pronounce "xe" The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 03:43
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:It's not even an inconvenience for you, like some of the others in the thread claimed, you just refuse because you're stubborn. Those words mean new things, xe means nothing.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:49
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:I've already posited a question for you that you haven't answered. Please do not skip questions. You will not receive full credit. I already told you that if you want to make a point you can post it yourself without this Socratic bullshit.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:53
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Nobody itt even knows what "xe" is, but they do know that it is extremely serious and if you think it's dumb then you are a hate machine.
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Mar 24, 2016 13:21
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sidviscous posted:I'll take your focus on this as agreement with my substantive point - that having someone in this position tell you you're an rear end in a top hat does not constitute oppression. Does referring to someone with the pronoun "they" instead of "xe" constitute oppression?
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Mar 24, 2016 16:27
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Self identity is a myth because there is no such thing as the self.
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Mar 24, 2016 16:47
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Effectronica posted:Care to put this to the test, O avatar of GBS and the GBS mentality? Transmit a thought to my mind, since there is no subjectivity, and thus you will be justified. You've addled your brain from smoking too much tronic.
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Mar 24, 2016 17:35
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:Earlier in this very thread you claimed that there's a difference in how people self identify though. It's sort of like saying there's a difference between the Washington Bigfoot and the Virginia Bigfoot, but then shrugging and saying neither of them exist so it doesn't matter. I said there was a difference in the way that people perceive their identities and the way that they perform their identities.
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Mar 24, 2016 19:01
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No I didn't. I posted a response to a post and then was told to describe what gender is and how its performed. I'm not interested in writing an essay for you just to have it ignored or dismissed with a single sarcastic sentence - which is ultimately what would happen. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 19:36
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^and wwn
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Mar 24, 2016 21:26
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Literally nothing has been explained itt.
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Mar 25, 2016 15:26
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Effectronica posted:I kind of enjoy the thought that having sex with someone is morally neutral, and forming your hand into a fist and swinging it repeatedly is morally neutral, rudatron. Not as much as I'll enjoy your continued refusal to explain why conformity being inevitable doesn't apply to stuffing gays back into the closet or inducing vitiligo on nonwhites, but does apply to nonbinary and trans fellows and making them use approved words for themselves.
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Mar 25, 2016 15:32
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An impassible gulf between gender artists and functional adults.
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Mar 25, 2016 15:39
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^ yikes
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Mar 25, 2016 16:12
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Venomous posted:I agree with a lot of what you're saying but please stop doing this because the asterisk erases non-binary people, the term is just trans What a mess.
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Mar 25, 2016 18:48
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:You realize sit ins and things like that weren't considered "peaceful" by a long stretch, right? They were considered riotous and illegal, which is why they had professionals brought in to perform them. No. The sit ins were considered peaceful by the majority of Americans and their power came from the clear moral disparity between the protestors' actions and the reactions of white supremacists.
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Mar 26, 2016 15:20
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I don't read your posts because your posts are impossible to read. They are an assault on my senses lacking in any form of grace. To read more than a sentence written by you, electronica, is a burden that cannot be expected of anyone to bear. E: nobody said the civil rights movement had mass support outside of the south. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 17:35
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Izola Curry was an deep cover FBI stooge.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:28
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Nah. MLK was hated, but less so than his separatist contemporaries. He was idealized by the Very Serious People of his time and played the role of the reasonable actor who could be negotiated with. E: it takes two: Malcolm X to rebel and MLK to reconcile. E2:^ there are people in the center of your two extremes. These are the flies whom the honey catches. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 20:21
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What's your point?OwlFancier posted:I dunno LGBT rights are doing pretty well IMO. The point isn't that MLK was an actual leader who negotiated with people or whatever. He was an ideological leader who stood for a set of principles, one of which was nonviolence. You can naturalize the young, but the old still wield the political power both as office holders and due to their numbers and propensity to vote. I don't believed that the LGBT movement is s good analogy for other types of civil rights movements because of the ubiquity of LGBT people. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 20:41
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You don't think that it was prominent, respectable LGBT people who gave the LGBT movement it's legs? I can promise you that if the LGBT movement was nothing but pride parades and stonewall riots there wouldn't have been nearly the advances that the community has seen today.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:54
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Effectronica posted:The point of talking about the decade between Brown v. Board and the Civil Rights Act is that it took a decade of people getting beaten and firehosed and attacked by dogs for public opinion to shift towards making a civil rights act politically possible, even with accepting the inevitable loss of the white South to the Democratic Party. That is, public opinion shifted slowly even with respectable victims and total pacifism. But it shifted. E:^ cool it, retard.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:59
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