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Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Liberal_L33t posted:

I am perfectly aware of how to cook. I grew up with a (mostly) stay-at-home dad who was downright obsessed with gourmet cooking and made drat sure I knew how to do it, to the point that he eventually trained me into doing most of it. Risotto, fried chicken from scratch, casseroles, brussels sprouts in vinaigrette, vegetable stew, shrimp with panko breadcrumbs, spaghetti with homemade cream sauce, home-made pizza (making even the loving dough from scratch), oven baked carrots with herb du provence, and a dozen other frou-frou things he saw watching the cooking channel.

Now he's dead, I'm living on my own, and I never cook unless I'm basically forced to, and hearing the occasional finger-wagging by self-satisfied assholes like you does not fill me with one ounce of shame over that fact.

(Edit: Oh, and to get on the thread topic: we always cooked with fresh ingredients and produce and threw out tons of poo poo, all the time, because it's almost impossible not to get a little bit more than you actually need for a recipe, and people who are really into cooking tend to also consider themselves too good for leftovers)


Be careful you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back there, that'll put a cramp in your cooking flair for sure!

Hahaha too good for leftovers.

Its funny you guys are taking Liberal_L33t seriously, and only gradually learning that he's possibly the worst poster in D+D, and that is loving saying something.


Anyway, as far as food waste goes, I was surprised to see in the OP that 2/3rds of waste came from consumers. This was in France, I wonder how that number changes in other countries, or in urban vs rural areas.

For myself, I try to not waste, though I could try harder. Its true that being single makes it easier to waste food. It certainly isn't impossible though. I get my bread from a local bakery. Made that day, good quality, no preservatives (and pretty cheap too, like 3-4 bucks a loaf). Anyway, stuff goes bad fast. My solution is to wrap the loaf in a plastic grocery bag (to prevent it going stale) and to put the bag in the fridge, to prevent mold. Lasts a week, easily, when left on the counter it would go bad in 2 days.

Vegetables I'm not as good with these days, I get distracted by the noodle place nearby and don't cook as much as I should. When I do cook I don't worry much if the veg looks a bit diminished. It'll usually still cook up ok, especially if its in something like a pasta sauce.

I don't want to cook everyday, so I'm trying to get myself back into the habit of making bulk meals (chilli, pasta, soup) and storing them in the freezer for a few weeks. I'm a bit lazy, but this is extremely cost effective and very healthy. I can spend 20 bucks and a a few hours of work (including shopping and cleaning up) to make 15 meals that keep a long time.

Rice is your friend. When I was very poor I lived largely off rice and assorted cheap or discarded veggies from a local market. Cream of mushroom soup as a sauce. I don't know how many times I had that meal. Not glamorous nor especially delicious, but cheap as dirt and really quite healthy. I never got into bulk beans/peas but these are ultra cost effective as well.

I understand the feeling of getting home and not wanting to work anymore, just to flop down, eat something tastey and bake in front of a screen, with some beer. This is a lifestyle thing I know, but even when I do this I don't usually feel better, or satisfied by the end of the night. I just shuffle off to bed, still feeling beat. I do feel better if I get exercise or eat something like good food. Its a discipline thing, and often hard to do if you're living alone.

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Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Discendo Vox posted:

I've given you three different links to contemporary nutrition standards. "Processed" is not a valid heuristic for the health impact of food, and neither is "junk". The primary cause of negative dietary outcomes is excess calories in comparison with exercise. The breadth of safe and nutritious diets is broader than you are comfortable acknowledging. You've fetishized home cooking and constructed a mental image of others in the thread as incompetent man-children eating Twinkies on the couch.

Stop using "fresh", "slow", "home-cooked" as proxies for "good". Stop using "fast", "processed", "prepackaged" as proxies for "bad". Stop using the phrase "junk food", it's obfuscatory garbage you're projecting your beliefs onto, a term that provides no information about why the food would be bad. Stop complaining about "additives" and "preservatives" when you don't know what they are. Stop raising salt, sugar or fat when you don't know the details of where they're placed or used. If you want to make nutrition claims, cite to research, not an open letter in Lancet. Above all else, stop saying home cooking is innately healthier than other food sources. That isn't a remotely valid claim.

Brazil has a good fit for that talks ask about processed foods, and that they should be minimised.

No, they don't give an airtight definition of processed. It's vague, because when buying stuff is all very areas, and as a health guide is important to give broad advice that is easy to understand.

And yes, junk food is a fine term to use when discussing diets, and yes it is bad for you. You say yourself that the science in this field is very young it changes frequently. This doesn't mean we should give the benefit of the doubt to chips and pop and big mac's.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

PT6A posted:

Why not? I eat all those things occasionally, and I'm in good health and not overweight. We need to focus on why people are eating those things in such amounts, or with such frequency, that it becomes unhealthy.

Yes you eat then occasionally. I occasionally eat lovely food too, and I don't feel unhealthy.

How's about this. When I say something is "bad" for you, I mean that on a spectrum of "rarely eat" to "eat frequently if you want", it would sit near "rarely eat".

Broccoli would go on the other side of the spectrum- maybe eating broccoli ask the time of bad for you I'm not sure- but hey it's not absolutely good or bad, just at a different part of the frequency spectrum.

I think saying that frequently eating broccoli is better for you than frequently eating big macs is something we can agree on.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Magic Hate Ball posted:

"I'm poor and tired and I was never provided with healthy life management skills because my parents were also poor and tired, but when I eat McDonald's I feel okay for a while"

Pretty much this.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Obdicut posted:

And 'plants' is a silly thing to say: wheat is a plant and eating bread does not produce satiety. I think you mean 'vegetables'.

Good thing you pointed this out. No more will I think of bread when somebody says "plants".

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Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Helsing posted:

:lol: Alright, well done.


Well, first of all 1750 calories isn't exactly generous and also the idea that the poor should exist on a diet of nothing but rice and beans is so obviously unacceptable that I'm not sure why you're bothering to bring it up at all. Besides which you're ignoring the time it takes to purchase and prepare, as well as access to transportation to and from the store, and enough leeway to save up money (have $50 or $100 saved up when you're truly poor isn't necessarily a small thing), etc. You start to add that up and it turns into the death of a thousand cuts. There's no one big reason for food security, just a lot of local and proximate ones united by a shared theme of near utter indifference to the plight of the poor by everyone who isn't poor.

And yeah, as I think you're alluding to, a lot of poor people experiencing food insecurity on a semi-regular basis are probably suffering from other issues like mental illness and addiction. Or they simply lack any kind of positive examples to emulate because of how insidious inter-generational poverty is.

My guess is there is a lot of this.

Even among friends of mine who are typically employed, albeit minimally, they will spend every cent they have with little thought put to planning. If they run out of money they get "cheap" things like small chocolate bars or bags of chips, even though these are actually super expensive compared to what an equivalent amount of rice would cost. I'm really not sure why they do this as its not how I operate. They live pay-cheque to pay cheque and are constantly poor. By changing their buying habits they could, by their own admission, have plenty of money with no change to their quality of life.

Its baffling.

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