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Liberal_L33t posted:Jesus Christ. Did you just use the term "goony" unironically, in a D&D thread? You know what else is "goony"? Posting on these loving forums at all, you holier-than-thou prick. You just posted how eating broccoli with processed cheese sauce as one of your staples is healthy for you because the alternative of cooking real food is so stressful it would lead you to start smoking. Broccoli with cheese sauce, a food who's "real" alternative is literally just buying real cheese and throwing it on top during cooking so it melts. You had that coming. edit:gently caress beaten
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Mar 23, 2016 20:54
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OwlFancier posted:Nah, that seems more complicated than it's worth. Just treat food more like you would a municipal water supply. That makes sense, because our food supply is just as homogeneous and locally source-able as water, and it's not like I have to pay a water bill every month.
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Mar 23, 2016 20:57
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Liberal_L33t posted:What the gently caress does "real food" mean? Can anyone give a concrete definition of this term that gets thrown around so much? Is it food that has never been inside a packaging plant? Is it food that has never had a corporation involved in any step of its production or distribution? If so, I have some real bad news for you about your produce. Sorry, I was using the term because someone else had, there's a reason I put it in scare quotes, I was using it partly as a stand in for "not poo poo" and partly because in this case I was comparing it to actual cheese. Personally I'm somewhat of a crusader against the anti-processed foods and natural foods movements but wholly poo poo you actually managed to find something that actually is over processed to poo poo in order to keep shelf stable and declare how it was unworkable to do make the healthier, tastier, and cheaper version because the stress of making broccoli and cheese would drive you to smoking. Honestly you're coming off with the same sort of pride in ignorance as the anti-intellectuals who complain about those pretentious liberals and their book learning. Only unlike a college education the information you're sneering at is readily available at zero cost with a modicum of effort. deadly_pudding posted:We're just trying to explain that you can make your own cheesey broccoli in like 4 minutes, and it won't have a kind of unnecessary amount of sodium or hydrogenated vegetable oil. I understand the convenience of packaged food, but in this case there is a simple alternative that is better for you unless you are in a place where you don't have access to a stove, like at work. gently caress dude you could make that easily in a microwave OwlFancier posted:You can go get water from a public fountain if you want to, or poo poo in a public toilet. I suppose if you want fancy water or water delivered directly to your house you do pay more but water is available for the taking even in the blighted hellscape of America where public funding of things is punishable by death and you insist on living in the middle of a desert. And this has been the case for a very long time. Perhaps in this modern age we can improve upon it? You realize that infrastructure isn't designed to provide daily use levels of water to the general public right? And that outside of a handful of municipal water fountains whoever owns the building is paying for it and offering it as a convenience? But sure lets go back to the town well as a analogy, replacing our current food supply with big barrels of take all you want grain sure sounds like a great idea.
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Mar 23, 2016 21:25
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deadly_pudding posted:No, it'll get mushy You're leaving it in the microwave too long, but more importantly do you really think he's not microwaving his broccoli right now?
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Mar 23, 2016 21:30
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OwlFancier posted:Well, no it is, otherwise the general public would not be able to use water daily. It's just the public infrastructure isn't designed to do that at the moment. I was referring to the public sources of water, obviously our in home plumbing in capable of providing water for daily use. And yes, I am more conscious of water use when I'm paying for it rather then it being included in the rent.
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Mar 23, 2016 22:02
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OwlFancier posted:I'm sure usage would increase but, for example, water is not always metered where I live, peopel still don't just leave the tap on for no reason. There's a broad spectrum of waste that falls short of "I'm gonna leave my taps at full blast all day because gently caress the water supply"
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Mar 23, 2016 22:39
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OwlFancier posted:Yes, as I said, usage would likely increase, but my point is not infinitely. The issue is not with waste, really, as much as ensuring an available supply. Oh hey look, 40 out of 50 states report they will experience shortfalls in their freshwater supply under average weather conditions. http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/663344.pdf
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Mar 23, 2016 22:44
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OwlFancier posted:Well yes if you live in a desert that will happen, but even then, it's a question of infrastructure. If you wanted to you could cover both coasts in desalinization plants and pipe it across the country, but that's hard to do without national-level investment. Yes, notable deserts like Florida and North Carolina. But hey let's forget that desalination is an energy intensive process with a substantial carbon footprint, lets just sink some massive national level investments into seeing if we can just brute-force our way through the tragedy of the commons. edit: computer parts posted:I think the bigger point is that food waste is not really that significant, at least not if you want to avoid punishing individual people. It would be much more efficient just to give money to people to buy food then to set up an entire parallel distribution chain for free rice and carrots. Not to mention if you think letting people walk away with as much free food as they want is going to reduce food waste then you're out of your mind. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 22:56
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Liberal_L33t posted:
This is just not true: bartlebyshop posted:If our society makes it hard for (some) people to learn how to cook, isn't that a societal problem and not an individual one? We don't have home ec or cooking classes in school and so I guess my parents were supposed to teach me (they yelled at me when I wanted to learn) or now I'm teaching myself. People might waste less food in general if they knew how to make better use of it - for instance, people throwing out parts of a whole chicken that they could turn into soup or broth instead, but they don't know how. So they throw all the bones and dark meat in the trash. I eat frozen food sometimes as well, but if Trader Joe's goes under or their Indian food gets really bad, it's good (for me) to have the ability to make and use things myself. Since I've been trying to learn a little bit more about cooking I find I throw less out because I'm willing to just throw a bunch of vegetables in the pan and have a bit more confidence it will be ok in the end. If we taught people how to cook more/better maybe they wouldn't throw so much stuff out because "I can't use this, it's not in the recipe book, what do you do with an expired beet anyway?" If you think ahead a little if you're buying for more then one meal you can even try to pick dishes whose leftover ingredients combine to make something else. Also at some point you realize if you have a stocked pantry you can pretty much always turn leftover veggies and protein into a decent fried rice/noodle dish.
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Mar 24, 2016 02:27
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It would be nice if people and orgs managed to divert some of the concentrated waste of food that isn't actually bad yet from the garbage to places that need it, but in reality 30% waste is actually somewhat impressive. The only way to lower that significantly would be to drastically lower the readily available variety of food we enjoy in the modern world, which wouldn't result in diverting food anywhere, just less production. Honestly though having a healthy wastage of food is a good thing, having anywhere near 100% utilization on food production is catastrophically dangerous.
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Mar 25, 2016 20:37
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DARPA Dad posted:So what exactly makes fresh vegetables more nutritious than frozen ones? They're not. The nutritional issues here are correlation not causation. All the pedantry about these terms does not change the fact that overwhelming majority of prepared and frozen foods sold in US are nutritional nightmares. There's nothing about freezing, processing, or being prepared that inherently causes this. Straight frozen ingredients have nothing to do with this, getting a bag of frozen broccoli or chicken breast is perfectly fine. The issue is living off of frozen dinners, sugary drinks, and fried snack foods.
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Mar 26, 2016 00:16
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BarbarianElephant posted:Fresh vegetables taste a lot better. And they can be enjoyed raw. Frozen veg are only good cooked up with a strong sauce. Most of them have the texture of mulch. This is just wrong as gently caress. There's a handful of vegetables and a handful of preparation methods where fresh makes a big difference, but for for the most part the cell wall damage from freezing is imperceptible unless you're deliberately trying to preserve crunch.
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Mar 26, 2016 07:07
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BarbarianElephant posted:I find it *extremely* perceptible. I'm always disappointed when restaurants use frozen veg. So soggy. I grew up eating mostly fresh veg from the garden so frozen veg wasn't part of my day to day experience. I can't get used to it. So did I, it only makes a difference in specific applications that preserve texture (mostly by only lightly cooking the inside, such as with high heat or properly done steaming, and only vegetables that have a robust structure, stuck as broccoli). This isn't an opinion, it's chemistry, I give it about a 100% chance your anti freezing snobbery is actual them not cooking the vegetables right.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:12
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twodot posted:If your definition is dumb because you haven't fully thought out the definition, it is still dumb. I have no comments on nutrition, it is a complex science that is still in its infancy, my entire point this whole time has been that you said junk food is a meaningful description, and that's not true. (Tangentially there are some other words you quoted which aren't great, but may have better definitions) You realize that not every word in the English language is an exact scientific qualification process right? That people can disagree what qualifies and what doesn't? Because this sounds goony as all gently caress.  "Eating a lot of junk food is bad for your health" "False! there's you have no exacting technical definition for the category 'junk food', this cheeto dust is fulfilling my daily dairy requirement!"
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Mar 26, 2016 18:31
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BarbarianElephant posted:I'm not a snob. I didn't say "fresh is better for you than frozen" because I've read plenty that says it is the other way around. But I don't care because it tastes great. And yes, I eat a lot of steamed broccoli but that's not the only thing I eat. You can tell steamed if it's not overcooked (which was my earlier point, I find it just as likely what you're reacting to as frozen is simply overcooked). I jumped on you because you described frozen vegetables as if they were barely palatable trash that had to be hidden under a heavy sauce. The fact is though that the issue with freezing is that the cell walls are damaged/ruptured by the crystallization of water inside of them, cooking causes those walls to become damaged and break down as well, if cooked to the point of softness then the distinction between fresh and frozen is pretty much nothing. In fact freezing fresh vegetables is sometimes desirable because of that, it improves the flavor of a gazpacho for example.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:19
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Salt is a bad thing to focus on seeing as we haven't really been able to conclusively show that it's bad to over-consume it absent certain health conditions, it's a much healthier way to enhance flavor then adding fat. Some people seem sensitive to it and some people seem like they aren't.
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Mar 26, 2016 23:40
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Excessive salt intake raises your blood pressure. Some people that doesn't do much to (I'm one of them in that my blood pressure tends to be low enough that a doctor said to me "eat more salt.") but people who already have high blood pressure it can gently caress up severely. Coupled with the fact that Americans are likely to also be fat that's two things that increase blood pressure. No, this is my point, I don't have time to go study diving right now but the latest research has called this into question as a general rule and suggests that it might be more of a case of just some individuals being sensitive to it.
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Mar 27, 2016 01:21
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WampaLord posted:The over consumption of sugar is one of the biggest problems we have and explains much of America's obesity epidemic. I know this is a little ways back but holy poo poo if milling, adding salt and sugar, and then fermenting something doesn't count as "processing" then we've really hit peak useless terminology here.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:55
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Helsing posted:
Because "processed meat" is referring to a certain set of processes 90% of the time so if you properly qualify your definition its (somewhat) useful. "Processed food" is a giant useless clusterfuck that can mean anything from canning tomatoes, to making wheat into bread, or adding stabilzer gum to cheese.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:10
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BarbarianElephant posted:That's why they sometime say "ultra-processed." That's the difference between Quaker Rolled Oats (processed) and Quaker Maple and brown sugar instant oats (ultra-processed). Bread is processed and Hot Pockets are ultra-processed. That sure sounds like peak useless terminology to me. Especially considering Quaker Maple and brown sugar oats are way way less processed then bread, and hot pockets are basically only more "processed" then bread in the sense that it's a combination of multiple processed foods.
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Mar 31, 2016 01:29
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