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Commie NedFlanders posted:I think a lot of liberals simply align themselves with defending Islam simply because they don't want to be on the same side as Republicans who are critical of Islam This is a very good summary of the current sorry state of the self-described left. Public outrage and many political positions boil down to signalling that you're not one of those people.
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Mar 27, 2016 10:28
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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McDowell posted:This age is ending and there are clear signs to embrace Gnosticism if you want to be in God's service. Hale-Bopp can be seen every 2,537 earth-years. This is relevant because
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Mar 27, 2016 10:33
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Effectronica posted:We are always living in the Kali Yuga. If the left declared that Muslims must die, it would be allowing Christians. If they abandoned all support for trans folks, it would be gays and lesbians that are dragging things down. You have to understand that the rank and file deliverers of these accusations are almost always people who believe they are being maltreated because they aren't priority one. As a bisexual mixed raced person I personify the
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Mar 27, 2016 13:59
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Ddraig posted:I'm curious as to when the old, mythical left passed on the baton to the modern left, because as far as I'm aware criticisms have been levelled against the "modern left" and how they've done hosed it up now at least my entire lifetime, and even before then. Partially its because if the old left achieves things these things become part of the status quo and therefore palatable to conservatives. Partially its because every political movement has a loony wing which happens to be very prominent but hopefully continues to be ineffectual due to being widely recognised as completely nuts.
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Mar 27, 2016 14:02
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SSNeoman posted:OP I don't think you'll find a single person condoning radical religious action. The difference between the right and the left is that the former believe this radicalism comes from religion, while the latter believe it comes from current socioeconomic structures. No but you do find people who refuse to believe radical religious action has anything to do with religion and is solely (and not just partially) the fault of the western oppressor, because only by singing the praises of anyone who claims to be vaguely associated with your favourite group can you possibly prevent the mob from lynching them.
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Mar 27, 2016 20:24
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SSNeoman posted:Are they, in broad strokes, wrong? Yes, because even people who look sufficiently brown to be oppressed still have agency.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:58
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SSNeoman posted:Agency to do what? If they are oppressed, what are their options? For the people living in the west: agency to do nothing, complain, peacefully protest, riot and randomly set cars on fire, what have you For the people living in muslim-majority countries where the ~western imperialist oppressor~ isn't denying them jobs or drunkenly beating them up after a far right rally, the argument should not be relevant in the first place. SSNeoman posted:Tommy Robinson is exactly who I had in mind. The man was responsible for the creation of the hate group called The English Defence League. Him moving from EDL to Quilliam to PEGIDA apparently didn't change his views, which is a shame. And that's not to say that PEGIDA is squicky clean either. That's, uh, a very charitable view of PEGIDA. They popped up in Germany as the "we're totally not racist, but gently caress the browns and deport all foreigners" movement for people in denial about wanting to vote neonazi and spilled over the border in some cases. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 09:46
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One might say that young armchair leftists are projecting their own desires to shut down offensive or unpleasant topic onto everyone else 
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Mar 28, 2016 17:09
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Liberal_L33t posted:Do you have anything specific in mind for that latter category, or is it just more "accuse the entire subforum of racism & run" threadshitting? You know it's the latter.
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Mar 28, 2016 21:59
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McDowell posted:On a chemical level most people today were made in a factory. This is a bloom of human plants - like bacteria reaching a critical optical density in a medium. Why should individuals be enabled in their desire to live forever? Why should we debase ourselves by loading our memories into machines? Who really wants this? Why does it matter in any way whether your nitrogen was fixed by Rhizobium sitting in bean roots or by Thyssen Krupp Industrial Solutions in Germany?
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Mar 29, 2016 09:04
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SSNeoman posted:Right this way then: http://www.cracked.com/blog/isis-wants-us-to-invade-7-facts-revealed-by-their-magazine/ despite being loving cracked of all things this is actually a pro click
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Mar 31, 2016 09:26
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Helsing posted:I think that religions like Christianity (and Islam, so far as I can tell, but I'm less familiar with Islam) are noteworthy for making the supposed "Truth" of their beliefs so central. There's no evidence that ancient Romans particularly cared about the sincerity of your belief in Jupiter or the Emperor, provided you made the correct public sacrifices. The Greeks didn't knowledge of the Truth about Apollo would liberate your soul. Ancient pre-Christian peoples treated their Gods almost like another set of capricious and arbitrary real life kings and queens who had to appeased and respected. For the most part they never acted as though knowing 'the Truth' about the Gods would influence your destination in the afterlife. virulent memetics ~ (more seriously, it is interesting that mystery cults and later mutually exclusive monotheistic religions have been very successful at outcompeting other religions)
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Apr 3, 2016 16:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Ah time for the "Christanity is really Mithraism" part where someone who has read the 12 crucified saviors and Davinci Code pretends that reading those two books makes them knowledgeable on matters of faith in antiquity. I'm basing this on an entirely different half-assed background 
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Apr 3, 2016 20:04
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Yeah, Dabiq magazine is a super interesting read and Cracked does a pretty decent job of synopsizing parts of the philosophy without making people read a horrifying publication. I sincerely hope some social scientist is doing their PhD on this.
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Apr 3, 2016 20:10
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Thug Lessons posted:An important thing to note about Roman religion was that it was very much an elite (and in fact explicitly state) institution, and for those elites took it as seriously as any Christian. It was really the weakness of the ruling elites that let Christianity sweep to power under Constantine and his successors, and while I can see how Christianity might be more theologically appealing to an ordinary Roman I wouldn't overstate it. Julian the Apostate did nothing wrong 
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Apr 3, 2016 20:12
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McDowell posted:There's plenty of interference and misinformation that has accrued over the centuries - you can make up your own mind, I'm just a student (and a pretty lousy one at that). How many Romans would have scoffed at some crucified Hebrew, preferring to say yes to the world of Caesar and Zeus? Creation is much bigger than the planet earth, and while ultimately 'everything happens for a reason' this planet is beset with evil. There's a 'Planet Nine' hypothesis that fits with other pop culture prophecies of Nibiru. If astronomers find it and it I will be very interested to learn the year of perihelion. The recycling takes time but that is the phase we have been in since Hale-bopp departed. Come on, get professional help. This isn't even funny anymore, it's just sad. Sethex posted:The American keyboard social scientist has done a pretty good job at looking at religious causes with a pretty extreme reductionist lens. Are you saying that Islam isn't involved in Islamist ideology? Are you saying that in order to not alienate people we should seek to ignore or paint the causes as something non-specific but maintain a certainty that Islam isn't the cause? While we can all imagine the incoming mealy-mouthed wordy response, I'm just going to preemptively cut through the crap and predict the answer will boil down to "no it's not involved in islamist ideology" and "i know this makes me a stupid rear end in a top hat and i'm trying to weasel my way out of it but basically yeah just act like you've proven a negative".
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Apr 6, 2016 18:56
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SSNeoman posted:Yes and yes. Hipster terrorists with a copy of "Islam for Dummies" in their luggage don't need to know what they're blowing themselves up for.
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Apr 6, 2016 18:58
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SSNeoman posted:Btw thread this literally happened. One of the Daesh's suicide bombers did indeed have Islam for Dummies in his personal luggage. That's what I referenced 
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Apr 6, 2016 19:26
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McDowell posted:This is a BFD, if you catch my drift. This video world is crazy enough. Just you wait. And imagine if the astronomers find Nibiru, and/or with local innovation or an actual extraterrestrial event the means are available for humans to live forever in a material way. Wouldn't it be total blasphemy to do such a thing? Your consciousness would be a slave to the operators of the machine (forget 'you are the product' - this is way beyond that). To become some kind of singularity being, a total cyborg, or however these things develop - becomes denial and opposition of God's plan for all biological things - to be subject to time and entropy. God doesn't exist, if god existed why would he have a plan, and even if he had a plan why would we give a gently caress? also lol at thinking the mk1 eyeball is inherently better at perceiving reality than a moderately fancy camera
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Apr 7, 2016 11:50
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Crowsbeak posted:Which God? The God that exists beyond the universe, out of time. Oh in that case, god is completely irrelevant because he's literally doing nothing. If we're talking about the god of the jews, christians, or muslims on the other hand...
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Apr 7, 2016 17:19
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Majorian posted:You're kind of proving the point that leftists aren't very good at talking others' beliefs respectfully. If you can't back up your beliefs with evidence then I can't take them seriously. If they have 5000 years of culture behind them, that makes them more interesting to historians but still not worth taking more seriously. I don't care how much this might offend anyone and I will respect anyone who demands ~respek~ for their unfounded beliefs even less for demanding it. Same as I would do to e.g. an anti vaxxer.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:32
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SHISHKABOB posted:You can't, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means you can't describe it, yeah, but that's why god is called ineffable. It also makes the whole exercise pretty pointless. Some sort of god may or may not exist but we are completely unable to come up with a useful framework for thinking about it so we might as well do something more useful and get on with our lives.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:41
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Fionordequester posted:Otherwise, all you have is a false peace, one that's only made possible by constant interference from God. *I shall create a wasteland, and call it
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Apr 7, 2016 20:41
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SHISHKABOB posted:Yeah but what if this god has a significant impact on our lives? And what happens to us after death? Science throws its hands up in the air, but that doesn't mean its an irrelevant thingie. If god is so totally beyond our comprehension/outside of our frame of reference/whatever you still can't make sense of it, so you might as well do something useful and get on with your life.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:49
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unless god shows up and goes "now listen here primitives, this is how i mess with you" there is by definition no point in thinking about a supernatural god
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Apr 7, 2016 20:52
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Fionordequester posted:Actually, that's exactly what he did, presuming you accept the Bible as fact. He just happened to do so a long time ago. Whether or not you find the Bible believable is up to you. And the Quran and probably a variety of other religious texts, but since every religious text turned out to be inconsistent, flat out wrong, or both, I'm not holding my breath.
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Apr 7, 2016 20:58
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Fionordequester posted:Wait...so are you saying you WANT to die? That's rather depressing, don't you think? quote:Ergh...God never raped people. And as for murder...well, he never did that either. Oh, don't get me wrong, he killed a LOT of people in the OT, that much is true. But from what I can tell, the only times he killed... that's, uh, a very charitable view, and it is still completely disproportionate when god could mostly just have solved the issue by building a trumpwall™ instead also something something basically torturing people for doubting (e.g. job)
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Apr 7, 2016 22:22
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Who What Now posted:God didn't have Job tortured for doubting, he had him tortured (which included killing his family who were presumably innocent) to prove that he wouldn't doubt God, no matter what.  that's even worse, and if you actually believed in the bible being true would mean that god is just going to do weird poo poo to you on a whim no matter how big of a believer you are so you might as well do something more useful and get on with your life.Panzeh posted:Hitler killed the Jews but it was justified, really: this hitler guy sounds like he has way more rational and understandable motivations and policies than that god guy, where can I sign up?
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Apr 7, 2016 22:37
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Majorian posted:There's kind of a difference between taking someone's beliefs seriously on the one hand, and not being a dick about them on the other. Explain why your super special beliefs in old stories and/or e: I won't care if you just believe super special dumb poo poo in private because curing idiocy is not practical, but if you try to justify anything that affects other people with your super special dumb beliefs, you can get hosed. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 09:02
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Okay, but don't expect people to respect you for being a bigot.
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Crowsbeak posted:Also to all whining about God not proving to you that he is the creator. That's your fault you cannot see God's magnificence. Whine to God. Unless you already started believing through no hard evidence at all, this is totally meaningless and unhelpful.
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Apr 8, 2016 09:16
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Majorian posted:My beliefs aren't causing you any harm, and they motivate me to do things that I think you would agree are good. I'm a potential ally of yours on a lot of issues, but you're dead-set on attacking me because I have the temerity to believe in a benevolent deity. That's a really narrow-minded worldview, if ever I saw one. In Real Life™ I will let you be right for the wrong reason to get poo poo done, but since religion (being only a belief) can never be the evidence for evidence based policy, religious arguments for doing something will always have an undercurrent of "yeah here's what we tell the plebs and other assorted useful idiots ".
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Apr 8, 2016 10:11
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Majorian posted:Mmmm, I think there's a bit of a difference between being needlessly rear end-kissy like that, and flat-out comparing someone's deepest, most cherished beliefs with anti-vaxxer-ism. And I think you know that. Asking that someone be civil isn't asking that much. Beliefs held without any good evidence (bad evidence: e.g. Andrew Wakefield writing down random ideas about vaccines, random bronze age nomad stories being compiled by committee and sold as the word of god) don't get better because someone really really wants them to be true. "This is my most deeply held, most cherished belief" is not a counterargument to "you are dumb and wrong".
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Apr 9, 2016 09:55
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Majorian posted:That's not really the case at all when it comes to the religious left. No. MLK and friends may sincerely believe that god would prefer a world with less oppression. However - 1. anyone who isn't also religious cannot in good faith (heh) make that religious argument, too, without doing it for the practical reason of there being lovely religious people that need to be convinced no matter how (i.e. I don't care how wrong or uninformed you are, I just want you to stop oppressing people no matter why) 2. if your belief that god prefers the world to be better is not derived from scripture but from your own thinking, you are being a humanist who doesn't want to admit it (a hypothetical god may or may not think you're doing a good job, but you can't know that unless he pops up and confirms it) 3. religion can be used to justify pretty much anything while evidence stays the same even if you really wanted to find different evidence. People who agree with you because of their ~religious feelings~ are allies of convenience at best, unless 2. applies (which is probably true for most believers) and they'll adjust their religion to their own thinking or to evidence and not the other way around suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 10:06
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Do you think Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Desmond Tutu, or any other examples were just using religion cynically to motivate the plebs? No, they genuinely believed in what they were preaching, and that's why people followed them. They believed that their cause was right and just. One can say that things like morality and justice come from God, or that they're simply implicitly agreed-upon codes of behavior among humans, but either way, it's ridiculous to suggest that good religious people do good things for "the wrong reasons." They're not just doing it because of arbitrary commandments in ancient scriptures; they're doing it because they want to be good people and want to help their fellow man.
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Majorian posted:I'm not arguing that anyone should believe as I do, though. I'm just asking blowfish and all other r/atheism types to stop being dicks towards religious/spiritual/theistic/whatever people, as if we're all Pat Robertson fans or whatever. I don't care about left vs. right beyond the most basic things like preferring a guaranteed standard of living to a FYGM Mad Max world. I care about defaulting to pragmatic, evidence based decisions, without regard for any irrational hopes or fears if necessary. For any question that can be decided by evidence, if you prefer sincerely held and cherished beliefs to evidence, you have the kind of ossified thinking that needs to stay far away from any decision making process.
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Apr 9, 2016 10:14
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McDowell posted:There are things humans can do that animals cannot do. Why is that? You could say that all living things have 'soul' but only humans have 'mind' - and in that mind-making process there is some small amount of individual choice/will. Remember the stories of genesis, which are allegory, or very deformed history from past ages. Humans have a level of self-awareness animals do not, but things like mortality and language still make us lesser than God. There are things animals can do that humans cannot do. You could say that all living things have 'sensors' but only bats have high resolution ultrasound 'vision' - etc. There is no reason to think it's impossible for another animal to evolve human-like intelligence and self-reflection. Being able to think a little better does not inherently mean you're special.
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Apr 9, 2016 11:52
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Crowsbeak posted:the actual Creator. [citation needed]
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Apr 9, 2016 16:00
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J.A.B.C. posted:Fine, then. By what standard does your God get any special treatment, as considered to the other Gods? Why is his creation myth valid while any number of others aren't? because only He gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, of course~
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Apr 9, 2016 16:23
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Crowsbeak posted:Well my God almost certainly is their origin. Also about Allah, well to me Allah is just a bad interpretation of the Trinity. As are any other actual creator Gods. ok which god is your god and how do you know he's not just a figment of your imagination
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Apr 9, 2016 16:40
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Crowsbeak posted:Well I don't but then if you are implying I am insane in believing him I will gladly continue to seek him out. Because quite frankly his world is a good deal better then whatever you're offering. so how can you be sure (or even reasonably assume) you're not just using belief as a coping mechanism for depression
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Apr 9, 2016 16:50
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Crowsbeak posted:I cannot, none of us can. But I will still treat God to be there even if there isn't a God. i suppose that is at least a honest position if nothing else
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Apr 9, 2016 16:57
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