|
Literally The Worst posted:oi don't say comics when you mean dc. dc is the one jacking their past off with one hand and writing with the other. dc is the one that got called out on it ten years early in DKSA. DC is the one who put out a comic in 2016 that's mostly an "homage" to watchmen by a writer who missed the point spectacularly. Please keep repeating yourself. I don't think anyone quite gets how much you hate DC yet, despite it being your only purpose in coming to this thread.
|
#
¿
May 27, 2016 05:17
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 21, 2024 04:48 |
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Since the solicits for this issue were released we knew Duela would be part of the series until it end so everything in issue 11 was just a fakeout since the start. And as I said, a constant on Lobdell's take on Jason is that he doesn't kill unless is to save his friends' life or his own. You are even more delusional than I imagined if you think solicits should tie into how a story reads. You do not write a story and pull fakeout garbage with the justification of "If people read the solicit they'd know it was a fakeout ahead of time instead of us backtracking stupidly on this Waffle made manifest."
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2016 07:40
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:Run Arsenal, run! Into the waiting arms of Booth's art.
|
|
#
¿
May 31, 2016 10:37
|
|
|
I'm personally a big fan of Whip-poor-wills.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 2, 2016 23:26
|
|
|
It's probably some stupid poo poo like total dollar amount profit but without adjusting for inflation.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2016 10:38
|
|
|
The Flash comic was nice but it mostly just seemed like a way to justify Wally not being around in The Flash despite making his triumphant return after the recap from Barry's perspective.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2016 06:52
|
|
|
X-O posted:I always say that Flash was the only Geoff Johns I really liked but that's because I always forget that he wrote good short run on Adventure Comics and about his Teen Titans and JSA stuff which I also enjoyed for the most part. The problem is I just never really identified him with those characters like I did with Flash or Green Lantern or some of the more terrible crossovers and events he's been responsible for. I know he did some work on Superman as well that I liked, did he work on New Krypton? I really liked that storyline. For some reason I always give James Robinson the credit for that one. I know he wrote the Superman Secret Origin book which I did not like. Did you not like 52 or do you just attribute its quality to everyone else?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 12, 2016 13:21
|
|
|
Titans was good if you can get over Booth Art. Kind of what you'd expect out of basically a reunion special but there was some new stuff in there that's interesting. Batman is 0 for 2 for me right now. Kinda disappointed on that one. The whole "WOULD MOM AND DAD BE PROUD HOW I DIE" thing was a bit thick for me.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2016 17:48
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:What happened to Superman's adopted son from the Phantom Zone? Bring that kid back, bring Kon-El back and stick him in the Lois/Clark household, and give me a six-year arc of a frazzled Clark Kent talking to Alfred for advice on raising a house full of dark-haired, blue-eyed, crimefighting boys. Chris, much like Bart, are basically muscled out of their place in the universe for happenstance reasons. I think Val-Zod, the black Superman in Earth 2, is supposed to be kind of an homage to a grown up version of Chris but who the gently caress wants to read Earth 2.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 15, 2016 18:26
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:I am way into this monster thing. That's amazing. I mean there wasn't a direct followup but the whole "You're the future of superheros" does kind of lead into Titans. Which is funny because the Titans have never been the future of anything except for Wally. They just kind of mill about in a perpetual limbo waiting for their predecessors to die/retire which will never happen because comics. Go read Titans Rebirth if you care about Wally reconnecting with his friends. If you don't care about Wally then there's nothing there for you, really. Unless you're one of those weird Booth art fans.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 18, 2016 00:39
|
|
|
Oracle posted:Uh... who the hell is the redheaded chick. Is that supposed to be Raven? (I read the original TT and there was for sure no plainclothes redheaded chick in it. The rest of them I recognized immediately). Then you didn't read the original TT because she was one of the members for the majority of those books. It's Lilith Clay. The team psychic before Raven.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2016 16:06
|
|
|
Oracle posted:Oh, Lilith. Wow. That's... going way far back. (I never knew her as Omen, that was after I stopped reading.) Also Lilith was never a red-head, I seem to remember her as vaguely gypsy-ish with a gem on her widow's-peaked forehead and dressed in white. Kind of looked like a female Namor. She has always been a red head. Her origin has her running away from her foster parents with very clear orangish-red hair. Over the years it's varied between the typical ginger orange up to the classic comic book fire truck red hair. Oracle posted:Nope, that was one of Raven's incarnations. I remember the original five being Speedy, Aqualad, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash and Robin. I must've skipped or blocked the whole Lilith thing from my memory. I remember the name, but I do not remember Gnaark. Its possible I stopped reading because god that's a stupid concept. Speedy wasn't actually an original member. It took him till issue #20 iirc to become a semi-permanent member, before that he just made a couple cameos like Beast Boy or whatever. Lilith came on at #25. Garth and Roy left with NTT and Lilith was only a minor member before leaving after awhile. She basically stuck around to help with the famous Trigon arc before loving off for the most part. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 24, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2016 16:46
|
|
|
DrProsek posted:Also half the women. Why do you hate The Flash so much?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 26, 2016 16:42
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:I've done stuff like that before but I'd rather not do something like that here without explicit mod approval since I'd rather not be perceived as trying to monopolize a forum or whatever. Plus I'd have to work out a reading list and some sort of structure. Wally West's run is thankfully lax on crossovers or required annual readings or whatever. I can only think of maybe 3 fairly important ones -- Zero Hour, the Dead Heat crossover with Impulse (two issues of Impulse in that arc), and Identity Crisis tying into The Secret of Barry Allen. And even then you can just read straight through, ignoring those, with little issue. The only real issue is if you just want to read everything (in which case you start out with the bad Baron run) or if you just want to skip to Waid. Though the Baron run is thankfully short and the Messner-Loebs run is fine, if not super spectacular. There's a couple great issues in there (#19 is one of my favorites ever). Honestly you can just straight shoot from #1 to #225. It's not like Batman where there's a bunch of poo poo on the side that all ties together. The only periphery books I'd suggest is The Life Story of The Flash (after The Return of Barry Allen, it's basically a crash course on Silver/Bronze age stuff) and Impulse. I'm a huge Waid/Morrison/Millar/Johns Flash run fan so I'm always down for seeing how other people view it. One thing I would suggest, which isn't really important in modern comics, is maybe skimming over the letters in the back of the books that have Waid and Augustyn responding to fans and giving post-story arc thought processes behind what they were doing and see how you like that. I was always fond of those little blurbs and it may be up your alley. edit: Speaking of Wally West, let's get a look at a real, not-Booth artist drawing his new costume:  Titans #1 variant courtesy of Mike Choi. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 2, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:I think the only way such a project would be enjoyable to read about is if I read everything, good bad and indifferent (and provide thoughts on it all) that Wally West appeared in in some sort of chronological order, so is that it? Because in my preliminary research I'm seeing some Flash/Green Lantern mini (The Brave and The Bold). And shouldn't, realistically speaking, a Wally West readthrough end in Flashpoint since that's when he's erased from existence? The Brave and The Bold mini was about Barry Allen and Hal Jordan. Wally appears as Kid Flash in one of them, but it's mostly about playing Barry and Hal off each other in different situations. The vast majority of periphery Flash stuff during Wally's run is actually about Barry, like that or the original Flashpoint or whatnot. Barry showed up a lot for a dead guy in a bunch of flashback stuff. Aside from team books like JLA, JLI/E, Justice League Elite, Titans etc Wally doesn't show up in too much else besides his own book. If you want to read those alongside then go for it. JLA and JLI/E are great. But they're not very Wally focused/centric (The Flash has always been rather unimportant in team books) and there's practically no crossover. Most, if not all, of Wally's character arc and journey just takes place in The Flash. If you want to read EVERYTHING then I suppose you'd have to check out Infinite Crisis, the horrible Bart run as The Flash, Lightning Saga (which is a JLA volume 2 tie in thing), then Wally's return which all follows the normal #225 stopping point. Lightning Saga's about as close as you ever get to an important to Wally's own book thing that happens in Justice League books. Otherwise it's only semi-occasionally brought up in his book that he's in the Justice League. It'd be like reading all of the New 52 Justice League because some JL members show up at the start of Endgame. A Wally readthrough would end with Flash Rebirth/Blackest Night. He stops appearing after that when Barry comes back. He shows up as a minor character in one tie-in Flashpoint issue where he gets like 2 lines before dying. I guess you could follow through with that if you want to get the full fisting DC gave the fanbase after Rebirth. edit: I suppose if anyone was going to make a Flash thread it'd be me, but I don't know poo poo about the Golden/Silver age poo poo so I couldn't do much there. Not really sure how I'd go about testing it or whatever, I don't ever make threads. Not even sure it'd really sustain itself. Don't even have a WW or GL thread and they're way more popular 'round these parts than The Flash. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2016 12:11
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Fair enough. I'll just read whatever Two Tone Shoes recommended then. For most people the rec is just 62-225, but if you want to read all the way from 1 to 247 then I can oblige. All the Flash stuff is volume 2. Flash 1-94 Flash 0 Flash 95-108 Impulse 10 Flash 109 Impulse 11 Flash 110-206 Flash 207-217 kind of runs at the same time as Identity Crisis and there's some parallelism in there where Identity Crisis reveals tie into this arc Flash 218 and 219 Wonder Woman 214 Flash 220-230 After that Wally disappears in Infinite Crisis, which eventually spins off into Bart Allen's terrible run as The Flash in "The Flash: The Fastest Man Alive 1-12." I would never recommend this to anyone because it is abhorrently bad but if you're a super completionist about this thing it technically matters. The Lightning Saga: Justice League of America (Volume 2) #8, Justice Society of America (Volume 3) #5, Justice League of America (Volume 2) #9, Justice Society of America (Volume 3) #6, Justice League of America (Volume 2) #10 All Flash #1 Flash 231-247 The only thing I really left out were the Annuals, most of which are just one offs but if you're really interested in those you can find where they land chronologically here: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-flash-annual/4050-3791/ After that, it's basically Flash Rebirth 1-6 and Flash: Blackest Night 1-3 (which ran concurrently, but in universe Blackest Night happens directly after Flash Rebirth) and that's the end of Wally being The Flash. He shows up for a short conversation in Flash volume 3 #11 and, finally, in the Flashpoint tie-in Citizen Cold #1 and in flashbacks in 2-3. The only other stuff that heavily features Wally West is the JL books I mentioned earlier. JLA 1-90 is always a good recommendation, as is JLI 1-25 and JLE 1-50, though Wally only appears once it becomes Justice League Europe, iirc, you should still read JLI first before it splits off into Justice League America and Justice League Europe. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:It's a Flash story only because every major universe shakeup uses the speed force as a macguffin. Before this only Flashpoint did that. And Flashpoint was notoriously an unplanned hijacking of a normal Flash story. Madkal posted:Curious, I know that people talk about Barry's return as a thing because of Johns love of Barry, but wasn't it Morrison who brought back Barry in Final Crisis? It's been years since I read Final Crisis (and I really don't have an urge to revisit it) but was it Morrison or Johns who wanted Barry back? They brought back Barry in Final Crisis to sell it but it was to set up Flash Rebirth which was the reason they were bringing back Barry. They were advertising Barry returning in Rebirth moreso than Final Crisis. Morrison wrote it as Wally doing the same thing, anyhow, there was just some redundancy to add another big moment. It was EVS who wanted Barry back the most and Johns obliged. Atleast, EVS takes the credit for pestering Didio about it until he acquiesced and Johns obviously, you know, wrote the garbage that followed.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:And Crisis. And kinda Final Crisis. There was no Speed Force before 1993 or whatever so no, not Crisis. I think the only thing the Speed Force did in Final Crisis was kiss Iris better.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2016 22:32
|
|
|
JoshTheStampede posted:Ok, instead of Speed Force I should have said "The Flash and associated bullshit derived from running really fast" I'll give ya COIE and Flashpoint but Infinite Crisis, Zero Hour, and Final Crisis were pretty Flash irrelevant in the overall story. Just kind of show up for a bit. edit: Just hit me that it is kind of funny that the only big ones where The Flash was central were when Barry was the main Flash. I guess we'll see how "big" Rebirth is and Wally is going forward. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 5, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 5, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:It's because Flash is the savior of the universe. I think Barry's batting 1 for 2 on saving the universe instead of destroying it, to be fair.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 5, 2016 18:26
|
|
|
Absolutely hated JL. Everyone but Superman and the Lanterns were really weird and out of character, the dialogue was incredibly bad (every line from Barry was like a cringey kid trying to write "funny" dialogue for The Flash, Wonder Woman was her genericized Warrior person again blah blah), and Hitch's art was rushed as heck like usual. And I mean, it wasn't even a subtle ripoff of Mass Effect as far as story goes, which was weird. Liked Aquaman. The resolution between Manta and Arthur was great. Liked Batman. Still not living up to King's other work but it's a fine superhero book as it stands. Loved Superman. I dunno, I'm just a sucker for Superdad raising Superson. Always been a sucker for superhero families, I suppose. I'm tempted to pick up Flintstones based on what I'm hearing from you guys and the owner at my store. Might be something I check out in trade.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2016 00:52
|
|
|
Veg posted:Has Waid ever had an ongoing Superman run? He nails the character in Kingdom Come Not really. He mostly just did one offs. There was a brief bit during Identity Crisis where he wrote like 3 interconnected Superman comics across multiple titles, that's it though.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2016 11:04
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Waid was reportedly offered the editor-in-chief role at DC shortly before the New 52 reboot, but it ended up going to Bob Harras instead. I'm not sure how he'd have been in the position; he was EiC for Boom for a while and I'm not sure how he was regarded there. Waid has an encyclopedic knowledge of both old school marvel and DC from before he was actually working in comics. IIRC he had a giant file case full of note cards detailing each characters's history and motivations and poo poo in every comic. One of the examples he had was Namor's first appearance so it definitely extends to Marvel.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
My main problem is I couldn't give a poo poo about August Heart when we've got two Wally's running around not being involved with Barry's superheroics. Why introduce several characters you have to do a lot of character work on when you've got one right there in such dire need of a fix up? On top of just kind of kicking Wally right back out of The Flash book to where he was pre-flashpoint -- wasting away in Titans.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 13, 2016 10:07
|
|
|
Kyle takes plenty of non physical head trauma from being Kyle.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2016 10:08
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Before Omega Men I would say John had more trauma with the wife killed and causing the destruction of a planet. Off the top of my head Kyle brought his mother back to life then watched her beg him to let her die.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:I don't like anything I can remember of Johns' stuff that I've read, and I am kind of perpetually grumpy about his sidelining Kyle and Wally for their shittier predecessors, but I can give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this isn't completely terrible. You don't like anything you've read by Johns but you dislike that he sidelined Wally? That seems kind of contradictory. It's hard to be a big Wally fan without atleast liking Johns' Wally books.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2016 01:41
|
|
|
Just popping in for my monthly statement on how it hurts my goddamn soul that Booth is drawing Titans. An otherwise good book that just looks utterly awful and ugly as poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2016 07:14
|
|
|
Stop loving talking about Jason goddamn Todd jesus christ. There are infinitely more and better things to talk about and inciting DT to respond to you because you like arguing just makes the thread more unreadable for the rest of us. Todd is a bad character, Lobdell is a bad writer, and DT is blind to the faults. Just stop talking about it, I beg you. It's loving Groundhog's day. I mean Wonder Woman and Titans came out at the same time and 90% of the discussion is poking DT about something that, no matter how very stupid the book is, he will never admit or always defend it. So, about Titans, is anyone else happy to see Abra Kadabra back? I know the name sounds super stupid and campy to anyone not familiar with Flash stuff but he was such a great no moral ambiguity kind of villain. The only downside is I suppose that definitely moves this book more into "Wally West and the Titans" ala Hal's book rather than a "Titans" book. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing to me, but it's certainly panning out to be different from the label. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jul 29, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Who cares, you have like 4 different ways to scroll passed them. It'd be very easy if it was just DT's monthly Red Hood post. But when entire pages are mostly blocks of Red Hood chat then reading the parts of the thread that aren't garbage becomes a lot harder.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
Roth posted:I really enjoyed Titans despite Roy looking like an idiot. I mean, he was gone in the same way everyone was gone until they showed up again. In some cases far worse for having come back (like Lobdell's Lilith, good lord). Thank goodness for retcons
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2016 01:57
|
|
|
Justice League basically seems to be: everyone is lovely and useless and would all be dead right now without Superman. I've always been pretty meh on how heavily Trinity slanted JL has been in the New 52 and this is more of the same (on top of the first two issues being garbage). I dunno, probably my first drop of Rebirth now.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:The last universe was rewritten when Barry Flash went back in time to save his mother (Flashpoint.) The N52 was the result of Barry trying to put things back the way they were (lets leave aside Pandora and the Wildstorm stuff.) He came out knowing that he just returned from the alternate Flashpoint reality (Giving Bruce Wayne a note from his Flashpoint father,) but seemingly having no notion that the remade world was any different than the one he screwed up in the first place. I'm pretty sure this Wally actually just always existed. It's why he was wearing the Kid Flash costume when he came back. They're currently in the middle of an arc explaining why what is basically New 52 Wally was erased/forgotten before Barry brought him back. The erasure caused by Kadabra put Wally in the Speed Force, which gave him the knowledge of all the other poo poo that happened. Wally's not his early 30s self from Post-Crisis. He's his 20ish year old self from the New 52 who everyone forgot and who gained some memories. It's why the Titans only remember stuff about him from their Teen Titans days -- that stuff still happened in this universe (ala Titans Hunt), everyone just forgot. They haven't had a single old continuity memory spurned by Wally, just forgotten New 52 ones.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 11:04
|
|
" Now the Rebirth Special is saying Doc Manhattan fiddled with things in the process and there's a reason things came back different.
|
Teenage Fansub posted:Huh. I bet basically everyone not reading or keeping up with Titans still thinks Wally made the leap from old continuity in that one-shot. Not even. That's what I figured from Rebirth when Barry remembered Wally as only Kid Flash and Wally was in the Kid Flash costume. If Wally was from the old continuity why would he be wearing a costume he hadn't worn in a decade? Answer is he's from this continuity where Barry never died and he never became The Flash. Teen Titans just further confirmed it since everyone there only remembers the Teen Titans and none of Wally as an adult. This is Wally after being affected by the missing ten years, but with the previous memories, more or less, since it's "All the same universe just hosed with" or whatever.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 22:49
|
|
|
Roth posted:I think I'm happier just not thinking about it too much. The only real difference is Wally is 20 instead of 30 and no one can possibly remember his days after being a Teen Titan besides him and Superman, who amusingly still has years of memories of being a surrogate uncle and teammate with Wally. Superman probably remembers more about Wally than Wally, actually.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 23:00
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Oh man, I'm now super hyped for when Wally and Clark meet! More hugs! Probably won't happen. Wally has no reason to think Clark is the one he knows and Clark vice versa. I guess he could maybe deduce it if he saw Wally running around (since Barry never died) but that's a stretch in several ways. I imagine the Rebirth plotline will be resolved before they ever have a reason to talk. There's just no reason for Wally to show up in JL or the Superman books, and even less reason for Superman to show up in Titans which is Wally's only book. It would be a great scene, though. Imagine Clark asking about his kids and Wally going "I had kids?"
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
Roth posted:I'm not sure if that means that Finch is a bad sign or not. I don't think I've read a comic by her before. Her Wonder Woman was an absolute travesty.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
X-O posted:I mean even if you ignore the part where Wally talks about remembering being older and married to Linda Park it's also been confirmed in interviews that Wally is indeed the Pre-Flashpoint Wally. So he's definitely not just a N52 version of the character that's been missing. Right, the way he would talk with memories of the past continuity. From his perspective, when he had all the knowledge, he knows it's weird that he's way younger than he used to be. It's like when Barry remembered being married to Iris in Flashpoint, but still was the "Flashpoint" version of Barry who never became The Flash. The reason he's younger is he's basically the de-aged version of himself that everyone else is from the reboot. It's the same reason he's in the Kid Flash costume. If he was just plucked from the last continuity like Superman was he'd be wearing his Flash costume and be in his 30s. Wally got rebooted like everyone else, disappeared (apparently because of Kadabra who has done this poo poo before), then while disappeared remembered everything -- how we don't know, but presumably it's all the Speed Force since it's the end all be all plot device. I suppose the other answer was he didn't exist, and coming into the universe from the Speed Force made the entire universe course correct to account for him. But then Barry wouldn't have memories of raising him? I think the "he was new 52, rebooted Wally and now he remembers the old universe" fits way better.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2016 23:55
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:It should stay like the Rebirth Special and she isn't affected by his magic touch. "I'm supposed to be with you? gently caress off creep." Boy that sure sounds depressing. That said he didn't touch her in Rebirth, but his magic touch wouldn't work on her. It only works on the Titans because their time together as Teen Titans wasn't erased, so there's something to restore. Linda's legit never met him in this continuity, so no memories.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 21, 2024 04:48 |
|
|
Toxxupation posted:Meanwhile, white Wally West reappears in an event issue that literally goes "Hey, you know that universe where Wally West was black? It was broken and wrong, we hosed up! Whoops! Here's the white guys again!" Speaking out of your rear end about this one.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 26, 2016 04:48
|
|