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So yeah, there we go. I still like this film, but in retrospect (and this is something I hadn't really picked up on previous viewings, actually, so I'm glad we did the simul), it's pretty depressing, and I don't like it anywhere near as much as the first film. I'm taking back the statement I made a couple of hours ago about the second one not being "less Patlabor." Where Early Days and the first film were full of youthful enthusiasm and silly hijinks, this is set 3-4 years later, with a cast that has visibly matured (with significantly changed character design). We see the SV2 protagonist have split up and moved on - Ohta is an instructor, Noa and Asuma are working with Shinohara as test pilots in labor R&D, Sakaki's retired and Shige is now head of the Mechanics, Kanuka doesn't appear at all because she's presumably commanding NYPD's labor unit, Shinshi is a section chief in some other branch of the police. Instead of a heroic last-ditch assault to stop labors from going berserk and being villified, the conflict here is incredibly muddied and mired in philosophical talks about the nature of existence in modern, post-Cold-War society, and there's some nasty business with Nagumo's past. The fights are grittier and the cast comes closer to dying than ever. Every scene with Noa (who normally pretty much personifies youthful enthusiasm about the show's subject matter) involves her talking about wanting to leave all that behind. She doesn't love Alphonse any more, and she doesn't want to be the "girl who loves labors" any more. The Babylon project is over, and with it, the golden age of labors; as Nagumo points out in her conference speech, the number of labors in use has steadily gone down. Labor crime isn't confined to Tokyo any more, but is everywhere in Japan, making special vehicles police work less personal. It feels like the magic's gone. Asuma talks about Noa potentially losing her labor license. In general, this feels like Oshii deliberately trying to conclude the story of the SV2 we know and love, but it's not a happy ending. Everyone's grown up and given up on their childish dreams, and even though the final battle gets the gang back together to fight the bad guys, it just feels like a last hurrah, with the gang digging out their aged, previous-generation labors for one last fight, and they all end up trashed at the end. And yeah, they get to be happy for a brief moment, but it soon goes back to Tsuge. In the end, we don't get a resolution; there's no renewed commitment from Noa and the gang to being labor police. The old SV2 doesn't reform and go back to happy days; all that is in the past. The last line of dialogue is Tsuge's, about looking to the future. The film even closes on a shot of the remaining two blimps flying above Tokyo, because Tsuge's terrorist acts haven't even been resolved. It really feels like it's bye-bye, Patlabor.  (Even though there's more to come - WXIII is set between the two films, but Oshii would later return to Patlabor and the Early Days continuity with a series of live-action OVAs... which I haven't seen yet, since there are still no subs for any episode beyond the first.  )
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Apr 28, 2016 |
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Apr 28, 2016 01:56
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Oh and an addendum: I watched WXIII once a long time ago and remember really disliking it, and so I've never rewatched it since. I was planning on skipping Friday entirely. Considering my opinion of the second film pretty much 180'd tonight, I think I'll probably take part now, and make the effort to rewatch WXIII for the first time in forever.
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Apr 28, 2016 02:04
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Awesome movie, really wowed me with the art quality over and over. I knew the dude with the lazy eye and way too much insider information must have been in on the plot! Glad I finally got to watch this, even though it was very much a downer compared to the rest of Patlabor and it had a severe lack of Noa and the working crew. I'm gonna watch a few more episodes of Patlabor TV (the polar opposite of this movie) to cheer up! I think I was on ep 11 or 12 when I got sidetracked by other things.
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Apr 28, 2016 02:08
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I've watched the Manga DVD release of Patlabor 2 dubbed, and the DVD special anniversary edition from Bandai Visual dubbed, and I have to say I like Goto's actor in the Manga release far more, even if some of the lines aren't quite as accurate. His short speech to the other officers just before the attacks hit Tokyo has this... aged feeling that just isn't there in the Bandai Visual dub.
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Apr 28, 2016 06:01
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Contrasting this film with the Monday one is very interesting. The first film felt like it was less Oshii, more Patlabor - this one felt much more Oshii, less Patlabor. The characters looked perfect to go into Ghost in the Shell. I can't say I like one more than the other, both designs have their good points. But Oshii's designs fit this plotline a lot better. And I gotta say, Patlabor loves these JSDF-PD disputes. Though the fact that it was the PD being the belligerent party this time was good. Loved the shots of soldiers in Tokyo, they were gorgeous.
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Apr 28, 2016 06:56
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Mentat Radnor posted:Awesome movie, really wowed me with the art quality over and over. I knew the dude with the lazy eye and way too much insider information must have been in on the plot! Glad I finally got to watch this, even though it was very much a downer compared to the rest of Patlabor and it had a severe lack of Noa and the working crew. you are aware we're gonna simul the tv show as well, yes?
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Apr 28, 2016 07:39
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So I’ve been watching the Bakemonogatari commentary track, and during episode 5 they were discussing how many distinct Mayois actually appear in the snail arc OP, so I thought I’d try counting them just for fun. Reposting here from the discord chat so it doesn’t get lost: 3 at the beginning (including the "original") 2 at the knitting scene 20 on the bus ~55 (visible) at the gym (this is a large crowd where all the Mayois are drawn individually, so I couldn’t get an exact number) 1 with the fan 17 at the festival 6 that fly into the moon 1 on the street at night (counting this as the same one that the flying Mayoi pulls up into the moon, since the scenes seem like they lead into each other) 8 in the street crowd 27 (visible) at the hurdle (another crowd, but the ones not in the foreground are an indistinct mass so I’ll just not count them) 2 that the original waves at That makes ~142 total, and in the commentary Tsubasa guessed it was about 150, so that’s actually pretty accurate! Nice attention to detail there.
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Apr 28, 2016 07:42
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Droyer posted:you are aware we're gonna simul the tv show as well, yes? At some point in the far future, and not as part of this simul, though. 
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Apr 28, 2016 08:35
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Lemon-Lime posted:Oh and an addendum: I watched WXIII once a long time ago and remember really disliking it, and so I've never rewatched it since. I was planning on skipping Friday entirely. I still like Patlabor 2 more than the first movie, because even if it's less cheerfully Patlaborian, I think it's a stronger film on its own. If you thought the second film being "less Patlabor" was detrimental though, I can't imagine your opinion on the third movie will have changed much. I still stand by it as a decent movie though, keeping in mind that it's WXIII: Patlabor 3, not Patlabor 3: WXIII.
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Apr 28, 2016 09:44
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Droyer posted:you are aware we're gonna simul the tv show as well, yes? Oh! I missed that somehow, but I'll be happy to watch it again. I only got through one more episode last night before falling asleep so no big deal.
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Apr 28, 2016 14:00
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Lemon-Lime posted:At some point in the far future, and not as part of this simul, though. if by "far future" you mean "in like a month", then yes
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Apr 28, 2016 14:50
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If the first Patlabor movie is the best the franchise ever gets from an action standpoint, then this one is the best it ever gets from a suspense standpoint. The somber story combined with Oshii's striking directorial quirks and imagery creates a very powerful narrative. This also showcases something i said at the end of last week: The second movie is very similar to the fifth and sixth episode of the OVA, except better in nearly every way. With all that said though, I do have some grievances with this movie. Like others have said the very somber tone makes this movie feel not very Patlaboresque. I also don't much care for how Noa is characterized in this movie. I realize that her wanting to distance herself from her love of Labors is supposed to be her maturing, but I don't really think that's necessary. I'll admit bias, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to like childish or juvenile things even as an adult, as long as it doesn't control your life or gets in the way of your responsibilities. Ultimately I feel like this movie is better than the first one if seen in a vacuum, but worse as a Patlabor movie. The somber tone and heavy atmosphere also makes it less fun. If I just want to have a good time on a slow evening I'd pop the first movie in over this one every time.
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Apr 28, 2016 20:18
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And finally: some more official art  
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Apr 28, 2016 20:29
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Droyer posted:I also don't much care for how Noa is characterized in this movie. I realize that her wanting to distance herself from her love of Labors is supposed to be her maturing, but I don't really think that's necessary. I'll admit bias, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to like childish or juvenile things even as an adult, as long as it doesn't control your life or gets in the way of your responsibilities. Strongly agree with this. Especially since there's basically nothing else to it. Noa doesn't really come across as that much more competent or experienced in this movie, and she's just not in it enough to demonstrate that she's changed in any other ways. It just came off as kind of "Gee, being passionate or even silly about something sure is for babies, ain't it?" You can be responsible and mature and empathetic without being a joyless automaton or abandoning anything close to a guilty pleasure.
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Apr 28, 2016 21:19
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Spiritus Nox posted:Strongly agree with this. Especially since there's basically nothing else to it. Noa doesn't really come across as that much more competent or experienced in this movie, and she's just not in it enough to demonstrate that she's changed in any other ways. It just came off as kind of "Gee, being passionate or even silly about something sure is for babies, ain't it?" You can be responsible and mature and empathetic without being a joyless automaton or abandoning anything close to a guilty pleasure. Eh, she's not being a joyless automaton for abandoning what is essentially a character schtick and nothing more. She states it simply enough: she doesn't "love" Alphonse like she used to to have to "need" to see "him", and wants to be more than "girl who loves labors". It's not that she doesn't love labors anymore, hardly the case if she's still testing the latest and greatest models to come out of Shinohara. It's that she is looking for something beyond that in her life. I would also say that the way she was as a character in the rest of the series is exactly the sort of thing that would get in the way of her professional and personal life if it were anything but an anime. Patlabor 2 takes a lot of its time doing what it can to show a pretty somber reality about the technical developments of labors, their spread, and eventual disuse as their need subsides. I think that more screen time showing her turning into how she is in the second film might have helped, but I also don't think it's impossible to see Noa's infatuation with labors taking a hit of some sort after the first movie. Labors are explicitly shown to be incredibly dangerous things on a scale that exceeds pretty much anything we've seen up to that point, on top of the whole movie being ultimately the most danger the entire division has been put in before Patlabor 2. Labors are NOT toys to be doted on by the end of Patlabor 1, they are incredibly dangerous machines that can cause untold amounts of damage to their surroundings if the will is there to make them do it. Not even Alphonse could have been invulnerable to such a thing had the bugged HOS been installed in it to begin with. When you're told that the thing you love most is actually a possible threat to the well being of yourself and those around you, and then shown exactly how that could have been, I think that would make a lot of people reconsider things. If Noa didn't actually reflect on it and just remained silly old Noa in Patlabor 2, it would have been a serious clash with the rest of the film as a whole, and not for the better IMO. It is sad, I definitely agree on that, but I feel it fits.
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Apr 29, 2016 02:28
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fivegears4reverse posted:Eh, she's not being a joyless automaton for abandoning what is essentially a character schtick and nothing more. She states it simply enough: she doesn't "love" Alphonse like she used to to have to "need" to see "him", and wants to be more than "girl who loves labors". It's not that she doesn't love labors anymore, hardly the case if she's still testing the latest and greatest models to come out of Shinohara. It's that she is looking for something beyond that in her life. I would also say that the way she was as a character in the rest of the series is exactly the sort of thing that would get in the way of her professional and personal life if it were anything but an anime. Patlabor 2 takes a lot of its time doing what it can to show a pretty somber reality about the technical developments of labors, their spread, and eventual disuse as their need subsides. It might fit if Noa actually had more than like 20 minutes of screen time to actually explore some of this instead of her just being quieter and having one line that amounts to "boy I was annoying before, wasn't I"
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Apr 29, 2016 02:33
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It's actually very bad to be passionate about anything
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Apr 29, 2016 14:52
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losing your passions is part of growing up. become normie
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Apr 29, 2016 15:09
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Davincie posted:losing your passions is part of growing up. become normie not even becoming normie, your passions and focuses can change over time. It's not a betrayal of the self to decide you aren't into toys anymore.
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Apr 29, 2016 16:04
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An hour and a bit left until the movie. In the meantime, feel free to read this discussion between Mamoru Oshii and Hayao Miyazaki about Patlabor 2 that I meant to link earlier but forgot. http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/m_oshii_patlabor2.html
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Apr 29, 2016 22:53
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Don't think I'll be able to simulwatch tonight, I'm afraid. 
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Apr 29, 2016 23:05
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Yeah, same. I'll watch WXIII tomorrow and post thoughts then. Sorry!
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Apr 29, 2016 23:18
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5 minutes now
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Apr 29, 2016 23:55
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Start
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Apr 30, 2016 00:00
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Got here just in time.
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Apr 30, 2016 00:00
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I'll be starting about 10 minutes late, almost home now. Friends are all out of town so I get to stay in and watch a movie this Friday!
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Apr 30, 2016 00:01
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Mentat Radnor posted:I'll be starting about 10 minutes late, almost home now. Friends are all out of town so I get to stay in and watch a movie this Friday! You put off watching a movie so that you could watch a movie?!? e: That's all that's left of him? 
Command Ant fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 00:02
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Command Ant posted:You put off watching a movie so that you could watch a movie?!? Eh? No, I meant I normally go out and drink with friends at this time on Fridays. Instead, I am headed home to watch a movie, that movie being Patlabor 3.
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Apr 30, 2016 00:06
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what a fwiggen normie
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Apr 30, 2016 00:13
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That's a nice car you have there miss!
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Apr 30, 2016 00:18
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Is there going to be a scene of him dragging his printer all the way to her house?
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Apr 30, 2016 00:23
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Blood!
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Apr 30, 2016 00:29
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So if the last movie was most like OVA episodes 5 and 6, is this one most like episode 3 with the giant monster and mad scientist? Biological experiments in my Patlabor? More likely than I thought. I came into this one blind, I'm still hoping at least one of the original SV2 cast shows up. Edit - Hooray, Noa and Asuma are here! Mentat Radnor fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Apr 30, 2016 |
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Apr 30, 2016 00:30
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"Input your 17-digit access code."
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Apr 30, 2016 00:36
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i finished this film before you guys. it was bad
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Apr 30, 2016 00:49
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OK, so we're watching a horror sci-fi monster movie tonight, I understand now. That's a pretty freaky monster!
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Apr 30, 2016 00:50
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Today on what is calling itself "Patlabor": A dozen horrific deaths happen and then Gotoh and Limpy ride the ferris wheel. No Labors or comedy.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:04
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Come for Patlabor, get a prequel to The Host instead. e: "These actions are most regrettable."
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Apr 30, 2016 01:09
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Command Ant posted:e: "These actions are most regrettable." I just got to that part. American music video director is great, and has a ridiculous shirt.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:34
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It was a good movie, it just wasn't a Patlabor movie.
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Apr 30, 2016 01:51
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