|
So I'll be heading to Myanmar in about a month for business, going to Yangon and Mandalay. I'll likely have some free time, so does anyone have any recommendations outside of the obvious pagodas and temples? A lot of the advice online seems pretty outdated as the country seems to have had some major changes in the past few years, and of course the new government has given people a new sense of hope. I'm going to assume that our business partners will be taking care of me, and all of the Burmese I've worked with so far have been wonderful people, but exactly how far should I accept their generosity? I know that some Asian cultures may offer you the world but not actually expect you to accept their offers. On the other hand, since I'll be on an expense account, I plan to pay for all expenses and meals that I may have with them, hopefully that would be acceptable practice since I've had to fight over paying a bill before and it's always uncomfortable. Everyone says Yangon is ridiculously overpriced for what it is, any advice on that? It seems like foreigners can use Kyats now, is condition of the money important? Any recommended dishes or restaurants to go to? I'll assume that English ability is low, at least from the Burmese that I've worked with so far. How is it getting around with limited communication skills? My company is having me take a crash course in Burmese but I'm sure that won't get me anywhere near an acceptable level by the time I leave. Hopefully it'll at least be enough to kind of read the script and understand the pronunciation system. Any general health or safety tips? Seems like I'll have to get a few vaccines before heading off, and dengue is of a concern. Seems to be very low crime from what I can see, and I have no intention to visit Shan State or any conflict areas. For business attire, it seems like it'll be bloody hot when I go there so what would be acceptable? I hope to avoid wearing a suit if possible, and maybe even get away with short-sleeved dress shirts. Also, for things like punctuality and the "flow" of a business meeting, what would be best? They like to get down to business, or spend a lot of time on greetings and personal matters first? All advice or stories would be appreciated!
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 11:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
You'll get a better response for this in the SE Asia thread, there are some knowledgeable folks who live in the region in it. Have a great trip! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3260679
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 13:09
|
|
|
Original_Z posted:So I'll be heading to Myanmar in about a month for business, going to Yangon and Mandalay. I'll likely have some free time, so does anyone have any recommendations outside of the obvious pagodas and temples? A lot of the advice online seems pretty outdated as the country seems to have had some major changes in the past few years, and of course the new government has given people a new sense of hope. I went to Myanmar the year before last and only for a week but I'll tell you what I know. I went to Mandalay and Pyin U Lwin. Mandalay is a dirty and pretty dull town and... well it's boring. The best pagodas (and views) are from Mandalay Hill; generally you can rent a motorbike (with driver, not by yourself) or taxi who will take you round the main attractions. The pagoda at the top of the hill is stunning, there's a big long wooden bridge a couple miles out of town and there's the Royal Palace in the centre which has been renovated to make it look like it was built in the 70s. And unless you really really like pagodas then I'm afraid that's it. Pyin U Lwin is about 4 hours away by train, maybe a bit less by taxi, and is home to the National Gardens which are just incredible. They don't get many white faces up there so all the Burmese kids will be coming up to you and giggling and asking for a photo. The number of Facebook profile pics I must be on doesn't bear thinking about. Original_Z posted:I'm going to assume that our business partners will be taking care of me, and all of the Burmese I've worked with so far have been wonderful people, but exactly how far should I accept their generosity? I know that some Asian cultures may offer you the world but not actually expect you to accept their offers. On the other hand, since I'll be on an expense account, I plan to pay for all expenses and meals that I may have with them, hopefully that would be acceptable practice since I've had to fight over paying a bill before and it's always uncomfortable. No offence, and I'd be interested to know where you're from, because I'd have said that insisting on paying for everything is a pretty universal sign of arrogance. Where the money is coming from is irrelevant. Arguing over a bill is, or indeed anything, is outrageously rude in Burmese culture and is likely to alienate you very quickly. When dining with colleagues there will be a hierarchy of rank between you all (this is largely unspoken). One person will be the unofficial "group leader" (it may not be immediately obvious who this is but won't be you) whose job is to seat people in order of rank, generally the oldest first and then women and kids (you may fall into this category as a foreigner) before the middle aged men. Just sort of hang around and you'll be told where to sit. Don't start eating until offered; the dishes will generally be shared (many plates on the table in front of you) and you should either eat with your right hand or the cutlery which is offered. It's a largely respect-based culture so even if you're offered bizarre cutlery it's best just to use it (chopsticks to eat Indian food, that sort of thing, although the foreigners at the table will usually be offered a fork and spoon. A knife might materialise if you're extremely lucky, but don't actually ask for one). It is considered ridiculously impolite not to clear your plate. The unofficial group leader will tell you who is paying. He may ask you to leave the table with him and explain how to pay. The Burmese are very accommodating of foreigners and accept that you're different, so they'll keep you right - don't be offended if they inform you that you are paying, and absolutely do not argue. Now if you think dining with colleagues sounds difficult then dining in a casual setting is a clusterfuck of the highest proportions. It's considered rude to assume someone is hungry (that would imply they're poor) and it's considered rude to ask someone for food (that would imply they're your servant) so you can imagine how difficult it is to get a waiters attention. Enter a cafe or bar and the staff will immediately look terrified and scurry off and hide (that's an exaggeration but you'll see what I mean). Burmese do this weird kissing thing with their lips to get a waiters attention which will make you feel self conscious but it works. Don't be disheartened if you do it and the waiter seems to ignore you and glides past; he'll appear a few seconds later as if you never asked (so both of you save face) to take your order. Like many countries in SE Asia the menus will tend to show pictures of food so it's really just a case of pointing and smiling. There will always (without exception) be a flask of tea on the table and some small mugs. Help yourself, it's free (and probably considered rude not to drink it). The bill will never be brought to your table, you'll have to go to the bar area (where there will be nobody sitting, lol) and ask for it. Original_Z posted:Everyone says Yangon is ridiculously overpriced for what it is, any advice on that? It seems like foreigners can use Kyats now, is condition of the money important? Any recommended dishes or restaurants to go to? Condition of kyats is largely unimportant within reason. You'll have to bring foreign currency in and exchange it, usually US dollars, and they have to be in PERFECT condition. They won't accept some bills with certain serial numbers, particularly $100s, check online for the current details. You'll need to go to a bank to change it and show your passport; if the bank is closed or you can't find one then Burmese people are generally prohibited from handling foreign currency but you can change it in jewellers as they have certain connections to get it out of the country (probably because they're Chinese). This is Myanmar of course and it's Bizarro-Land so the exchange rate will probably be better in the jewellers! This is technically illegal though. I have no recommendations for Yangon as I didn't go. Burmese food gets a bad rap because... well, because it's just not very good! Original_Z posted:I'll assume that English ability is low, at least from the Burmese that I've worked with so far. How is it getting around with limited communication skills? My company is having me take a crash course in Burmese but I'm sure that won't get me anywhere near an acceptable level by the time I leave. Hopefully it'll at least be enough to kind of read the script and understand the pronunciation system. Getting around is reasonably easy and I'd say the English level is acceptable. I mean, if you enter a shop and ask for something the shopkeeper is going to scurry off and come back with his entire family a few seconds later, before pushing his eight year old daughter towards you and beaming with pride as she speaks to you in perfect English. Mandalay is built on a grid system so it's relatively easy just to remember your street name; roads running east-west have names and roads running north-south have numbers, so just say the number and cruise along until you find out where you're meant to be. Wikipedia tells me 5% of the population speak English; I'd estimate that rises to 25% in Yangon and Mandalay and falls to 0% in rural areas. A third of the population doesn't actually speak Burmese and taxi drivers (particularly mototaxis) tend to be from poorer regions of the country and just in the cities to work. So showing a business card of a hotel written in Burmese script may not actually work; although they'll probably speak Burmese they won't have learnt how to read it. As far as trying to learn the language, it's tonal. Good luck with that. Original_Z posted:Any general health or safety tips? Seems like I'll have to get a few vaccines before heading off, and dengue is of a concern. Seems to be very low crime from what I can see, and I have no intention to visit Shan State or any conflict areas. I went a year and a half in SE Asia without vaccinations (this isn't some anti-vaxxer thing; the risks are just massively exaggerated unless you're going to be hiking through a jungle barefoot in monsoon season) so that's up to you. You can't vaccinate against dengue and the most dangerous time is June-September so depending how long you're going for you might miss that. Just wear mosquito repellent and long sleeves if you're really worried. There are packets of vitamin powder you can get in Cambodia called Royal D, you just dissolve them in water (and they're delicious!). Myanmar must have something similar. Drink a few of them a day, they're perfect for dehydration and hangovers, and keeps your immune system strong to keep dengue at bay. There will be no question of visiting the conflict areas as the government is still committing genocide there. Don't drink the tap water and bottled water is plentiful. This suggests it's probably not a good idea to drink the ice either as it's probably made from tap water. There are pots dotted all over the place full of water and a little metal mug chained to them, they're maintained by monks for the general population. Drink at your own risk and I'm pretty sure it's rude to use them to wash your face with. Crime against foreigners is virtually non-existent. Original_Z posted:For business attire, it seems like it'll be bloody hot when I go there so what would be acceptable? I hope to avoid wearing a suit if possible, and maybe even get away with short-sleeved dress shirts. Also, for things like punctuality and the "flow" of a business meeting, what would be best? They like to get down to business, or spend a lot of time on greetings and personal matters first? Burmese culture moves slowlyyyyy and a quick google confirms it's the same for business meetings. Punctuality is everything though - if you're there to close some big deal and you arrive ten minutes late then you really might as well just go home. The thing they like to do is swap business cards; they'll approach you with the card in two hands and bowing very slightly, you accept with both hands and bow slightly too. Then you have to actually read it, make appreciative noises, before doing the same thing with your own business card. Mental. I wore short sleeves the whole time I was there. Women have to cover their shoulders but that's about it. I did a lot of research before I went because I knew it would be a completely different place to anywhere I've been before, but nothing compares to being there. It's a love-or-hate country and not for everyone, but the Burmese are cool and if you manage to massively offend them they are more likely to laugh at you than start shouting. Anymore questions, fire away...
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 13:13
|
|
|
From someone who's only spent a week of their life somewhere, that is seriously a poo poo ton of highly detailed answers. I don't even think I could give such detailed explanations about etiquette in Switzerland after 7 years of living here and having family here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 13:33
|
|
|
Thanks so much for the advice! I've tried to do some research on my own but most of this stuff is completely new, and seems invaluable to know.duckmaster posted:
Heh, I don't mean to sound arrogant, just that I've had too many experiences doing the whole dance around the check. Sometimes they don't put up an argument, sometimes they say they want to pick it up but are just saying that to not seem rude, and other times they are adamant of paying the bill. Obviously I wouldn't get into an argument, just wondering how far I should push, which is apparently not at all. In that case, should I even bring it up, or just wait and see what the host says? On another note, should I assume that my business partners will be taking me out to dinner or around the town? Usually it's a pretty natural end to a day and I do enjoy entertaining, would it be better to suggest it, or even schedule in advance? quote:
Interesting, so it's unlikely that I'll be able to exchange Kyats outside of the country? I won't be coming with USD but Japanese Yen, can I just use that or would it be better to exchange to USD first? Seems like I'll have to really budget everything either way, kind of a good gig where you have to bring a lot of cash and exchange the excess at their rates. I'll be staying at fairly nice hotels, would they have currency exchange services? quote:
I'd assume the tea is safe then? How common are supermarkets or general shopping options? My Burmese colleagues have told me that they're going to overcharge me as a foreigner, they seem rather disgusted by the practice but told me that there's nothing I can do about it, even if I'm with other Burmese. Any comments on that? Public transportation seems rather lacking, I suppose I'll be relying on taxis to get anywhere? I do hope to ride the circular line in Yangon as it seems like a cool way to get a view of the country and the people. I'll be taking a flight from RGN to MDL, and don't really plan to use the rail network for any other purpose. My Burmese colleagues said that I shouldn't take the train to Pyin U Lwin, but take a bus. It was the first thing everyone said when I mentioned Mandalay though, so it seems very much worth taking the trip out there. I'm going to assume talking about government is not a smart thing, but for example saying that I'm excited for the new government and hoping that it'll lead to a lot of opportunity or something to that regard, how would that go down? Best to just avoid it altogether? Thanks again for all the advice! It definitely gives me a lot to think about and be careful of. If the trip goes well it's likely that I'll be going back there on a somewhat regular basis, so I do hope to put on a good impression!
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 14:24
|
|
|
Original_Z posted:Thanks so much for the advice! I've tried to do some research on my own but most of this stuff is completely new, and seems invaluable to know. I think the host will probably tell you. He'll know you're a foreigner and will keep you right. There won't be any rush to leave the dinner table either, they like to sit around and chat and drink tea for ages afterwards. Original_Z posted:On another note, should I assume that my business partners will be taking me out to dinner or around the town? Usually it's a pretty natural end to a day and I do enjoy entertaining, would it be better to suggest it, or even schedule in advance? Dinner is the most important meal of the day as it's an extremely social event. I think they'll have that sort of thing planned out for you. I'm not being funny here but I'm really not entirely sure if it would be possible to make a dinner reservation in Myanmar! Original_Z posted:Interesting, so it's unlikely that I'll be able to exchange Kyats outside of the country? I won't be coming with USD but Japanese Yen, can I just use that or would it be better to exchange to USD first? Seems like I'll have to really budget everything either way, kind of a good gig where you have to bring a lot of cash and exchange the excess at their rates. I'll be staying at fairly nice hotels, would they have currency exchange services? It's impossible to get Kyat outside of Myanmar and it's (technically) illegal to take any outside the country. The banks when I was there were only interested in USD and Euros, they didn't even know what Sterling was. This may have changed and this was just Mandalay; if you can't change Yen in Yangon I'd be amazed. Having said that, hotels will only accept US dollars and Kyat. One hotel I stayed at I asked if they did currency exchange and it was confirmed that they did. A young man appeared and asked me to follow him, I assumed to an office or a desk or something, but he walked me down the road to the bank and told me where to wait. I smiled and thanked him but didn't offer a tip partly because they don't expect tips and partly because he disappeared before I could say anything else. When I checked out a few days later they'd added an absolutely outrageous charge for this "service" to my bill. I just went to the jewellers after that, but YMMV. Original_Z posted:I'd assume the tea is safe then? How common are supermarkets or general shopping options? Literally everyone was constantly drinking tea and it never occurred to me that it wouldn't be. The beer is definitely safe  There are no big supermarkets like Walmart or anything. Think of Apoo's shop in the Simpsons, there's a few of them around. The brands are pretty weird and wonderful (mainly Chinese) but there's plenty to survive on. Original_Z posted:My Burmese colleagues have told me that they're going to overcharge me as a foreigner, they seem rather disgusted by the practice but told me that there's nothing I can do about it, even if I'm with other Burmese. Any comments on that? Yeh we got overcharged for virtually everything except food and drink which seemed to have set prices (haggling isn't as prevalent as the rest of SE Asia). Every evening businesses like hotels, travel agents, tour companies, even TAXI DRIVERS, need to phone the police (i.e the government) and tell them how many foreigners they had staying over or on their coaches or in their taxis or whatever. The government records that number and charges a surcharge to the business; they justify it by saying the government got them those customers by allowing tourists into the country, so they should be rewarded for it, but it's basically just good 'ol corruption. Needless to say the penalties for lying about how many foreigners were served or accommodated are pretty strict, and the government has a strong network of secret police and informers. Original_Z posted:Public transportation seems rather lacking, I suppose I'll be relying on taxis to get anywhere? I do hope to ride the circular line in Yangon as it seems like a cool way to get a view of the country and the people. I'll be taking a flight from RGN to MDL, and don't really plan to use the rail network for any other purpose. My Burmese colleagues said that I shouldn't take the train to Pyin U Lwin, but take a bus. It was the first thing everyone said when I mentioned Mandalay though, so it seems very much worth taking the trip out there. Now I think about it we got a taxi to Pyin U Lwin then a train to the hill stations to the north of there. It's definitely worth doing. In Mandalay it's taxis and motorbikes; they have those flatbed truck things that people sit in and you jump on and then bang on the window when you want to get off and hand the driver some money, but I didn't use them. There was certainly no such thing as a bus service in Mandalay when I was there! Original_Z posted:I'm going to assume talking about government is not a smart thing, but for example saying that I'm excited for the new government and hoping that it'll lead to a lot of opportunity or something to that regard, how would that go down? Best to just avoid it altogether? Yes. Original_Z posted:Thanks again for all the advice! It definitely gives me a lot to think about and be careful of. If the trip goes well it's likely that I'll be going back there on a somewhat regular basis, so I do hope to put on a good impression! No problem. I wish I could go back too 
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
It's absolutely fascinating how the government are the ones who institute ripping off foreigners, although I'm glad to know it since you can't get angry at people in that situation. Must be maddening to be an expat in the country. You mentioned that tips aren't common, would they even be accepted if offered? I do like to bring currency back with me, so even though it's technically illegal to bring it out, will they actually go to the trouble of searching me or anything like that? I'd imagine it would be all right as long as I'm not transporting out large amounts. Also, back to currency exchanges, I probably won't want to bother with trying to find jewelers or whatever so is the airport the easiest way to do it? Should I even expect to get anywhere near the official rates? Thanks again for all the help!
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2016 12:11
|
|
|
poo poo, I love Burmese food.  Is there something wrong with me?The food is like 85% of why I want to visit Myanmar.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 13:22
|
|
|
bringmyfishback posted:poo poo, I love Burmese food. Burmese food by itself isn't "bad" - it just happens to be surrounded by 3 countries with far superior cuisines - Indian, Chinese and Thai.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 17:22
|
|
|
Original_Z posted:It's absolutely fascinating how the government are the ones who institute ripping off foreigners, although I'm glad to know it since you can't get angry at people in that situation. Must be maddening to be an expat in the country. You mentioned that tips aren't common, would they even be accepted if offered? Well, everyone likes free money! The problem with tipping in the developing world is that if it becomes the norm for everyone to expect a tip then people will be more drawn to work in the tourist industry than to go to university and become doctors, lawyers, engineers etc. You'll find that people will be generally gracious for a tip but won't expect it and won't change their level of service towards you based on whether they have or will receive a tip. You also have to bear in mind that (currently) local Burmese aren't allowed to handle foreign currency, so it may be outright illegal for them to accept US dollars. Although this may have changed by the time you're there. Basically if you're in the US and you don't give your barman a dollar for every drink you'll see a notable drop in service. Whether you tip or don't tip a Burmese barman will result in no difference in service whatsoever. It will remain atrocious. Original_Z posted:I do like to bring currency back with me, so even though it's technically illegal to bring it out, will they actually go to the trouble of searching me or anything like that? I'd imagine it would be all right as long as I'm not transporting out large amounts. Yep, it's really just to stop people taking large amounts out and having a negative effect on the economy. Since the money can't even be officially changed anywhere outside of Myanmar I can't imagine it's a massive problem anyway. Original_Z posted:Also, back to currency exchanges, I probably won't want to bother with trying to find jewelers or whatever so is the airport the easiest way to do it? Should I even expect to get anywhere near the official rates? I really don't know too much about currency to be honest - and a quick google search tells me it's quite a bit different from when I was there - but I'd be flabbergasted if the banks and money exchange places weren't as close to the official rate as they could be, and that they'd even be any different. I do remember when we arrived and didn't change any money at the airport because "the rates are always terrible", but I did check the rate and when we found a bank it was pretty much the same. There are quite a lot of ATMs now - I remember seeing a few but nowhere near as much as Thailand or Cambodia - but ATMs rely on a stable electric and internet connection and I wouldn't count on them having either. Plus most of the banks probably haven't got round to the paperwork with all the international banks to make sure everyones debit card is going to work. To be honest in Yangon you could probably just use ATMs and debit cards and be absolutely fine. In Mandalay it's a bit more difficult, but everywhere else will be borderline impossible. Original_Z posted:Thanks again for all the help! Thanks, I am having to check what I'm saying with google searches but it's a lot easier for me to work out what's what because I've been there and can relate. It's one of the fastest changing countries in the planet though, so if half of what I've told you turns out to be rubbish please don't be mad at me
duckmaster fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 31, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
I've dug out the general tips I posted after I'd got back for someone who was also going, so here you are:
edit: I should say that I referred to khat in that last comment, but it's not actually khat they use (although the method of usage and effects are similar). They chew betel nut, wrapped in some sort of leaf, which gives an effect similar to nicotine. The main thing you'll notice is that it makes the users gums and teeth turn blood-red, so don't be alarmed when everyone you speak to seems to be bleeding from the mouth! Burmese people will be more than happy to let you try some if you ask, and explain how to do it (basically just chew it a couple of times then press it against the gum between your teeth and cheek with your tongue, repeat when it's dried out). It's absolutely horrific (and I smoke 20 a day!) but it's got to be done. If you ask for some in a beer garden they will bring you a bucket to spit the liquid out into (in the street they just spit it out onto the road), which is handy because there's a strong chance it'll make you vomit. duckmaster fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 31, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Betel nut is disgusting and the first time I tried it I was sick for several hours afterwards, don't do betel nut.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
duckmaster posted:Thanks, I am having to check what I'm saying with google searches but it's a lot easier for me to work out what's what because I've been there and can relate. It's one of the fastest changing countries in the planet though, so if half of what I've told you turns This has definitely been my biggest problem in getting information, even blogs or travel sites written like 5 years ago seem outdated and I keep getting conflicting information about restrictions and currency. Certainly, once I get back I'll talk about anything that seems to have changed. We also do a lot of work in west Asia so I know betel nut all too well, in India they call it gutka and the streets and walls are so red that you'd think it was faded paint. I've had the Pan Masala version which has no nicotine (although the canister does say that chewing it is hazardous to your health), it's actually a very good breath mint in that respect but I would only keep it in my mouth for like a minute and spit it out. All the Burmese women I've met don't drink alcohol and said that drinking, smoking, or chewing betel nut is for men and if a woman does it they're a "club girl". The men I know seem to all be heavy smokers. Booking my domestic flights to Mandalay and back has been a maddening experience. I need to take a night flight there since I need to start in Mandalay at first and need enough time to clear customs and transfer to the domestic line at Yangon. I try to book on the website and see that the night flight is much cheaper than the others, which of course is fine, but by choosing it they will not let me choose a return flight in a higher fare class, so I'm forced to take a night flight back to Yangon which is not convenient with my schedule. There's not even an option to pay more and let me take an earlier flight. I either have to schedule the night flight and spend another day in the city with no business to do, not necessarily a problem but I'll have to keep my luggage with me during the day. Either that or buy two one way tickets, which isn't the biggest deal but it just seems so odd that they force you to do so. You have any suggestions for good gifts to my hosts there? I'll be meeting with both men and women, maybe good cigarettes would be good for the men? Thanks again! Original_Z fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Apr 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 00:05
|
|
|
I've been meaning to go back. Things are going to change pretty rapidly now in terms of business and currency since they opened their own stock market. Sure, only a handful of businesses are there, but if they want investment, they are going to need to make it easier for people to get currency, which means better banking and other things that make travel a lot easier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
I spent about 10 days in Yangon in the summer, my wife was there for work so she got some advice from the field co. USD is the only currency they advised her to bring (we live in Europe). At the airport and at the banks, they would only change about $100 at a time, maybe $200. Your cash will go a long way though. Taxis are the only place where you can/should haggle. And yeah, there's no bus. Tell them the name of a hotel or the name of the streets where you're going and then ask them how much. Most of the time they'll ask for double the local rate, you'll say half that, they'll say 60% and you should just take it. You'll need to know where you're going (like which building it is, which side of the street it's on, etc.) because unless it's a big hotel, they probably won't know it since a lot of the taxi drivers are from the country, like duckmaster said. You'll get charged an extra 100 Khat when it's raining. Ask your friends how much the taxi fares should be though, because not all of the drivers try to rip you off. There are plenty of western restaurants in Yangon, which are really expensive (like insane Moscow/Tokyo prices) and there are a lot of Chinese, Indian and Burmese places that are better value and can be pretty goo. There are also a couple of ridiculously overpriced western supermarkets (you can buy yoghurt from Switzerland for $7!) if you get sick of rice and noodles. The sidewalks are hosed. UP. tho, for real. One of my wife's co-workers fell into a hole or had the pavement shift/crumble underneath him four times in two months. Pay attention while you're walking. There are rivers of I don't know what under there, not something you'd want splashed into a fresh scrape or gash. They were doing a huge sidewalk renovation project when we were there though so things are probably better in some areas but still crumbling in others. The Circle Line was cool, the pagodas were lovely, Inya lake is nice, the colonial area on the waterfront is cool, the people are really nice... I'd love to go back except for the fact that almost all of the money will end up in the hands of the brutal military regime.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
Just wanted to say that Bagan was incredible for anyone thinking of going.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2016 07:31
|
|
|
Original_Z posted:This has definitely been my biggest problem in getting information, even blogs or travel sites written like 5 years ago seem outdated and I keep getting conflicting information about restrictions and currency. Certainly, once I get back I'll talk about anything that seems to have changed. The thing with gifts for Burmese people is that the emotion behind giving the gift is considered more important than the gift itself, so gifts are usually wrapped and not opened in front of the giver. Practical items are generally your best bet - if your company does nice branded pens in boxes that might be a good idea? They also go mad for whisky and the price of it there is insane so a "nice" bottle of Scotch for the head honcho of the company you're doing business with would no doubt get you remembered (I say "nice" because you could get a $300 bottle of the finest Scotch distilled from the tears of Scottish monks and they'd be upset you didn't get a proper Scotch like Johnny Walker). For the kids I'd say little toys or souveneirs from your country (I think you said you were in Japan?), anything that says Made in China is considered garbage so as long as it's unique it'll work. If you're flying with the Burmese airline it's going to be farcical. Apparently when I was there their booking system consisted of all the agents inputting passenger data onto their own individual Excel file, then at the end of the day faxing it to a central office who inputted all the data into a master spreadsheet and faxed back each individual agent telling them what they had to change the next day because they'd oversold on virtually everything. I can't imagine it's improved a great deal beyond that. Air Asia do direct flights to Mandalay from Bangkok if that helps any?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
I was in Yangon last year for business and it was quite nice. -I didn't bring any USD with me so I had to rely on ATM's at the Airport. Only 1 out of 3 was working so I got lucky. -My taxi from the airport to my office was 15000 kyat. A local colleague grabbing a taxi for me from the office back to the airport got the same ride for 8000 kyat so there is definitely room to haggle. -I did encounter a number of illiterate taxi drivers so my hotel reservation printed out in Burmese was useless. -There were no major chains like Starbucks, McDonalds so if you survive on those normally prepare for a rough stay. -Business wise people were quite similar to people in India. They would rather lie to you and promise you the impossible than say no. -The office building my company is in is owned by a Japanese company, so everyone except us was suffering in suits the whole time. On the plus side, Japanese robo toilets. -I went to a cocktail bar called the Blind Tiger and it was one of the best bars I have ever been. It closed down and reopened somewhere else in the mean time but if you like a good drink I would suggest you give it a go.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
I spent a month there in 2003, so won't waste time giving you dated information on prices and other time-sensitive information. There's a well-trod tourist quadrangle, with Yangon, Inle Lake (Taunggyi), Mandalay, and Bagan (Nyaung U) at its vertices. The Golden Pagoda at Kyaiktiyo is pretty cool, gilded and impossibly perched atop a giant boulder. It's a few hours south of Yangon. Headed north from Yangon, Bago is a cool little city to kill a night on the way to Inle Lake. At Inle Lake, I loved the Jumping Cat Monastery, but I'm a cat person. The lake itself is a really cool place to unwind for a while, not that you'll really need to unwind in Myanmar. Mandalay is definitely overrated - I thought it was hot and dusty, without much to see. On the other hand, the nearby hill station of Pyin U Lwin is worth visiting, after you decide that Mandalay sucks. Bagan is spectacular - my favorite ruins site in mainland southeast Asia. Overland travel is arduous. When I was there, I took semi-private buses whenever possible, in order not to put hard currency into the hands of the ruling junta. That is obviously not so much an issue today. I've heard the trains are fun, if slow. There are probably reasonable internal flights now too, that you can take with a clear conscience. People are awesome - the most gracious and outgoing I experienced anywhere in Asia. It was beyond my imagination how they had managed to produce such a monstrous regime.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2016 16:42
|
|
|
Well, less than a week left to go and things are starting to become more finalized. My Burmese is enough to do some basic introductions and read numbers, and I've been able to talk more to the people I'll be meeting there. They've more or less confirmed almost all the advice that has been said in this thread, although I still get conflicting information, or they'll say one thing and then a week later tell me that the rules changed. It really does seem like a country that is changing by the day, it's all really fascinating, and actually seems like a really good time to visit the country, to help support the new government and get a feel for the "real" Myanmar. I'm sure in a few years with increasing foreign investment the place will be very different (well, that's one of the reasons I'm even going). It looks like I'll be having a private car and driver throughout everything, which should make transportation rather simple (although everyone says the traffic is horrendous). All of our business partners have been incredibly hospitable, offering to show me around on my days off, mentioning that they'd like to have me over at their homes for dinner, and one of them is even related to some famous singer and is setting up a meeting for me (May Khalar, sadly I don't know enough about her to really appreciate the honor at the moment as there is very little information in English). Actually, I'm almost concerned that I won't have enough time to be on my own and just explore the cities, but I suppose I'll see what happens. I've also had a sample of Myanmar cooking, I think they were fried beans mixed with tea leaves, a bit too salty for my taste but rather interesting either way, along with a dessert which was coconut milk mixed with some sort of jelly. Everyone has said to stay away from street food. I do hope to be able to get to the Strand Hotel and sample their afternoon tea, and they seem to have a rather nice bar as well. I definitely get the feeling that anything I bring for presents shouldn't be made in China! I get a very anti-Chinese sentiment from the people I've been talking with. Especially when talking about Mandalay, they all mention how the Chinese are taking over the city. They've also mentioned that whiskey is more expensive than other alcoholic products and is of low quality there, so I might pick up a few bottles as gifts as long as the duty restrictions are reasonable. All my colleagues also seem to mention that foreign snacks are popular, so I can load up on those as well. On the other hand, I'm also wondering what kind of gifts I should bring back home, it seems like jade and gems are rather famous, anything else I should be on the look out for? I might also buy some clothes and wear them in the country, everyone keeps talking about how this year is super-hot and I wonder if my wardrobe would be equipped to handle it. People have mentioned that the sidewalks have had a lot of construction and are generally safer now, I suppose I'll see how that goes. They did mention how you used to not walk outside at night due to the risk of falling into a pothole. Not likely something I'll want to risk. I'm sure a lot of unexpected things will end up happening, for better or worse. I'll make sure to keep people updated!
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2016 12:34
|
|
|
Sounds like it should be an awesome trip. I spent 3 weeks around China with my dad about 16 years ago when it was just starting to open up and he was getting wined and dined and shown around everywhere, and it was one of the most memorable travel experiences of my life. I haven't been back to China since, and I doubt I will even remotely recognize Beijing or Shanghai the next time I'm there. I imagine your Myanmar trip will by similar (except you are the target person, rather than the relative-of-target-person).
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2016 16:54
|
|
|
I made it to the country and have spent some time in Mandalay. So far so good, not interested in making a travel journal but I'll say a few observations that may be useful. Since everyone assured me that bringing yen would be no problem, that's what I did. Imagine my surprise when none of the airport exchanges accepted it, only USD, Euro, Singapore dollars, and Baht. Fortunately one of our partners met me at the airport and took me to some travel agent which exchanged the yen. I would have been absolutely sunk if they weren't there, so I really recommend getting dollars no matter what, although I wouldn't be surprised if this changes in like a year. Either way, dollars is definitely the way to go with getting any kind of competitive rate. I got absolutely killed by the yen rate, nowhere near what it should have been. Even with the exchange loss of converting to dollars first, I would have come out way ahead. I have no idea how people drive here, they seem to completely ignore lane markings and are constantly blowing their horns. I think I've only seen 2 traffic lights in the city, it might have even been the same light. People are constantly passing slower drivers and use their turn signals to let the driver behind them pass. Motorbikes everywhere. Roads are of fairly good quality and lack potholes or major damage, although some smaller streets could use some work. So far the heat hasn't been that bad, no worse than Tokyo summer, the only problem was when I went up the Mingun-Sagaing temple (which is absolutely amazing, it looks like something out of Indiana Jones), I had to take off my shoes and walk up stone steps to the top. Goddamn, it was like walking on hot coals and I messed up my feet, my hand that was grabbing the safety bar also got burned. The view at the top was nice, and it is a fantastic place to visit, but you'd better have tough feet. At first, my colleague was paying for everything, but later in the day I said I would be more than happy to cover expenses. After that I've been paying for things. They also brought up the political situation of the country and we had a discussion of it, although it was nothing terribly deep and there was no talk of the junta but only the future. Perhaps they are slowly becoming more open to discussing such matters now. They really seem to dislike the Chinese and blame them for several problems in the country, somewhat ironic since from what I've read the increased trade and entrepreneurs from China has really boosted Mandalay's economy. The Mandalay city center is a fascinating place, I could spend days just walking around and viewing all of the small local shops, very few chains of any kind around. I found some shops which sell silk shirts for really cheap prices, although most of them have tacky designs which I wouldn't want to wear back home. I might try to find a shop which offers a larger selection for men, some of the women's clothing has designs which I would wear but the men's side is so small. My business partner mentioned that the designs here wouldn't be worn in Yangon, so I might have a better shot down there. For food, I've had a variety of things so far and although they were pleasant enough, it would definitely be near the bottom of my list of ethnic foods I'd seek out on my own. The desserts have all been quite good, however.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2016 10:41
|
|
|
What do you do that brings you to Myanmar for work, anyway? If it's a question you don't mind answering.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2016 12:51
|
|
|
I work to promote studying and working in Japan and often have to go abroad to maintain relations with our current partners and try to find new ones. Typically I focus on English-speaking countries but I'm also in charge of a few others such as Myanmar, I had exchanged mails with people so we've had some history working together but it is my first time meeting most of them in person. Japanese companies are starting to see more potential in Myanmar and want to bring potential workers to come and build bridges between the company and the country. Today was my last day in Mandalay, here are a few more observations which may or may not be useful to future travelers... I was invited to the family house and had a homemade meal, they had prepared forks for me but since everyone else was eating with their hands I decided to do the same. Apparently this was kind of an honor for them and they were really happy that I chose to use my hands on my own volition. Since I've studied some Burmese, I've been trying to use it, although it's nothing more than basic greetings. I can't really tell how that's going, they talk about it in a way that seems condescending when they mention it to another person ('he can say "hello", "my name is", "nice to meet you"...', like I'm a baby or something). Several people have had similar reactions and I can't imagine that they're making fun of me, so it must just be the way they convey it. Sidewalks are absolutely useless. They're of acceptable quality but they're constantly being blocked by shop displays so walking on the road is the only way to get around. Despite the traffic this wasn't so much of an issue, but Mandalay is not a pedestrian friendly city. They've told me that bicycles used to be popular but have all been replaced by motorbikes. By walking around I was constantly bombarded with kids yelling "hello" and other simple English phrases at me. I've since long lost the novelty of that by living in Japan, but I tried to be friendly and reply to them. Mandalay is a big city. It seems fairly small when looking at a map but it's really quite large when trying to navigate it. Fortunately most of the street names are just numbers, so it's easy to reorient oneself. Zegyo plaza is the place to go for shopping, it's a huge market with thousands of small shops, the kinds of shopping malls that are in China. Seems like you can find almost anything, and a lot of the shops are either selling Chinese imports or Chinese knockoffs of foreign brands. Another complaint they told me, I guess the Chinese moved in and sold their crap at lower prices so that other businesses have trouble competing. After visiting the plaza I can kind of understand their feelings more. I'd say that 90% of street adverts are either for instant coffee mix, cell phone providers, and cement. The first two I can understand but I don't get the cement, it's not the kind of product that people buy on a regular basis. I've had some fruit juices, desserts, and fruits served with ice. I figured that the risk was worth taking to not embarrass my host, but so far no problems with that or any of the food so far. Food preparation overall seems very unsanitary. I did have a fantastic meal at the hotel however, the best food I've had here and one of the best meals I've had in recent memory. Perhaps they adjust the taste to suit foreigners but if so, they did a great job with it. It was a prix fixe course and was incredibly cheap considering it was a hotel restaurant. Tomorrow I head to Yangon, should be interesting to see how different it is there, everyone here has told me that the culture is quite different. --
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 15:44
|
|
|
To say that Yangon is different from Mandalay is an understatement. Yangon traffic is much more organized than Mandalay, no constant honking and people seem to stay inside their lanes. Traffic lights exist. Sidewalks still useless, for the most part they're walkable although have enough holes and sudden drops to cause trouble if you aren't aware. Like Mandalay, the sidewalks are usually blocked so you're forced on the road. Compared to Mandalay, Yangon is the future. Tall buildings and lots of open spaces. Feels like you're really in a city in the jungle, wandering off the main roads will take you to small communities surrounded by trees. Absolutely fascinating and beautiful city. Lots of modern buildings being built, construction everywhere, the city will probably be a completely different place very soon. Modern supermarkets exist and are easy to find, most products from Vietnam Malaysia and Thai, most of the local products have unappealing packaging when compared to imports. Large shopping malls opening up around the city, with famous brands and chains. They remind me of the ones that exist near most MRT stations in Singapore, they have what you need but are still kind of dingy and have poor lighting. Still, can see the future of the country. People say that these places have been popping up rather recently. These modern areas remind me of Bangkok. Blackouts on a daily basis, several times a day, at least so far. When the generators get running all sorts of black smoke comes out like a fire. For cars, the gas tank is in the trunk. They're modified to run on gas, not gasoline. Apparently gasoline cars do exist but they're not so popular. Most cars and buses are straight from Japan, due to the country's expensive and strict inspection scheme plenty of good vehicles are sent to developing countries and you can see them in full force here. Many cars and busses are old fleet cars and have Japanese company names and addresses on the side, which is amusing. I've even seen some vehicles with company names that I recognize from my time in Japan. Had a bit of afternoon tea at the Strand Hotel. Beautiful building, really gives you the feeling of relaxing after adventuring in the jungle during the days of the empire. I was super lucky, I went on the last day before being closed for renovations and it will not be open for business until November. The old British buildings are all kept in quite good condition, a contrast to the decaying flats that compose the majority of the city. The more traditional areas remind me quite a bit of Singapore. Keeping to any kind of schedule is nearly impossible due to the horrendous traffic in the city, although it seems like people are prepared for this and no one expects you to arrive on time, at least from the people I've worked with so far. I really feel like people interested in Myanmar should visit Yangon as soon as possible before the city becomes westernized. Mandalay is still fairly pure, and it is very much worth visiting both places.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2016 15:43
|
|
|
After about two weeks in the country my adventures are at an end and I'm just waiting for my flight to Tokyo. Might as well wrap up with some final thoughts. People don't use seatbelts, and many cars are modified to have them removed. When asked about car accidents they do admit that they are frequent, so I have no idea why they don't want to use them. I actually witnessed a small accident myself, just two cars hitting each other at an intersection, a fairly minor accident but enough to mess you up without a belt. Drinking and driving is incredibly common, I can only imagine how many senseless injuries and fatalities there are due to loose driving laws. I took the circular train line, the train I was on looked like it had been in service since the days of the British. It was a beautiful wooden train, but it was so hot inside, like within a few minutes I was drenched in sweat. The ride itself was really something and gives you a different view of the city, most of the stations are surrounded by trees and you'd forget that you're in the middle of a massive city. The train moves very slowly. Unfortunately, being in the train for so long caused me to suffer from heat exhaustion and I got very sick, I had lots of water with me and kept drinking, but it apparently wasn't enough. I was completely messed up, but after resting for the rest of the day and getting some sleep, I was fine the next day. I think that was the first time I've been affected by heat sickness and I was starting to feel it coming again after spending some time outdoors. That heat is no joke, and although I stand by with it feeling no worse than the Japanese summer, that might make it more dangerous as I didn't think I would at be at risk. The old British buildings really are magnificent, at times it feels like you're walking through the streets of London. From looking online apparently they were in rather poor condition just a few years ago, so they must have been renovated recently since they look brand new. Even in the suburbs you'll run into a western-style house at random. Considering how the military blames that era for all of their problems and had been trying to erase the legacy by changing names and such, it's almost surprising that they didn't destroy them all, but the city is much better off because of it. I talked to an expat who told me that crime has been on the rise recently, shared a story about a fellow expat who was mugged in a taxi and got the poo poo beat out of him. He said that such a thing would have been unthinkable before, but crime is starting to become more common with the new government. Not sure what to think of that. People seem to be more open to talking about politics, almost everyone I met with brought it up on their own and seem very optimistic for the future. They're almost too optimistic and expect all of their problems to be solved in a very short amount of time from now, which is actually somewhat worrisome. G-Shock watches seem popular, although I've seen a variety of them on people. Like Europe with people wearing nice watches and plenty of stores and adverts for them. Would probably make for good gifts to colleagues. There is apparently a tipping system, but I don't fully understand it. Everyone I asked about said that tipping is common, but I kept getting different answers of what was expected. Many restaurants already add a service charge, and the easiest answer I got was that you can just have service jobs keep the change, which is what I've been trying to do. Still, I got yelled at by a taxi driver that I let keep the change, I didn't know what he was saying but he seemed angry and forced the change back into my hands. When I asked a porter directly if I was expected to tip, he said it was unnecessary, but they not feel comfortable being put on the spot like that. Very strong personal relations are important. Everyone seems to know someone who knows someone, and they consider them "family", although when I asked what the actual relationship was, they had trouble actually explaining the family connection, they just use words like aunt and sister. Business wise, I think I made some good connections. I visited Star City and the nearby economic development area where Japanese companies are making large factories and businesses. You can see the investment taking place for Myanmar's future, and it's also causing land prices to skyrocket, costing around the same price for land or a flat in Tokyo, but being in the middle of nowhere. In the city center I saw adverts for $3,600 a month for a typical 1 bedroom unit, you could get a beautiful flat for that kind of money in central Tokyo. Completely illogical. I'm sure that there will be a housing bubble and when it bursts, it's going to be very painful. From the expats I met, the company takes care of housing costs. From what I heard, companies are willing to eat the costs for the chance to get on the ground level and reap the benefits of a new Myanmar, but I can't see these prices being sustainable. Apparently a lot of companies kind of considered the Myanmar market to be somewhat of an afterthought when dealing with SE Asia, so business which really study the market and make an effort to appeal to the population have real economic opportunity. Many things seem to be based on word of mouth, and it seems like they won't hesitate to change suppliers or partners if they feel like they're not getting what they should. After eating Burmese food straight for 2 weeks, I don't see myself seeking it out for a long time. I ate everything from street stalls to what would probably constitute fine dining here, along with at several houses of partners, and the only meal that made an impression was my hotel in Mandalay. It's kind of unique in that none of the things I ate were bad, but very few things were what I would consider great either, it's all rather mediocre and apparently unhealthy with all the grease and oil they use. For the most part the food is rather filling and it seemed like I would go into the next meal with the feeling of the previous meal still in my stomach. I tried a western style cake which looked rather appealing and it was absolutely vile, not sure if it was the shop but I didn't try any other cakes after that. Still, my body took all the food well enough and I had very few spats of diarrhea. My hosts were all incredibly hospitable and went way beyond the call of duty, I was invited to all of their houses and not a day went by where there wasn't something planned after business was concluded. They took me all over the city and nearby towns, going to spots that I likely would have never visited on my own. The airport exchange on the way back would only give out 100 dollar bills, nothing smaller. Chances are everyone is going to have some extra kyat on hand after that, which I'm sure is good for the airport businesses. Overall the trip was a success but I do consider myself rather lucky to have been more or less guided the entire time, it would be a fair bit more challenging if I was arranging everything on my own. I'll likely be returning in the future, so it'll be interesting to see the changes that occur until then.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2016 15:37
|
|
|
A common feature of Southeast Asian countries is saying things like "crime is on the rise" or other such things whenever political change takes place. It's probably not true.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
I'm a bit late to the party here but just wanted to thank the OP for his amazing experiences and insight into Myanmar. Not much more to add, except that it's been fascinating!
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
XyrlocShammypants posted:A common feature of Southeast Asian countries is saying things like "crime is on the rise" or other such things whenever political change takes place. It's probably not true. A shitload of regional PE folks and other businesses all rushed in a few years ago when things opened up. I was in Cambodia a lot at the time, where many of them had been entirely focused, and the buzz was everywhere. There have been a few common development-related industries where money has been made, but a lot of those people found out the reality (and made nothing OR lost loads), which is that the country was at that time a full decade off of being able to remotely support the kind of operations most of them envisioned (factories, etc). No roads, no reliable and industrial power generation, ports are ten kinds of hosed up (think Liberia, not Cambodia), telecommunications are decades behind - everything you need to operate a modern offshore business, they're really just now building up to modern spec. So it's happening, but it hasn't yet happened. It does have some advantages in that sense, though, since the adult population has been working in Thai industrial jobs for several decades and doesn't need training. It's going to be interesting when the domestic capacity in Burma finally gets high enough that it robs Thailand of its cheap labor, but it also means that Burmese labor isn't going to be as cheap as they think with China bidding on one side and Thailand on the other - then it's just down to how much of a cut you'll take to stay in your home country. Odd situation. Thailand was the Liberia to Burma's Sierra Leone for, what, about 30 years? That's all basically just slowly going to be over.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2016 07:20
|
|
|
Mont lin ma yar in inle lake next to massage place is probably th tastiest snack ive had in my life. I will book a flight to myanmar just for that sometime in life again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 08:34
|
|
|
Nexal posted:Mont lin ma yar in inle lake next to massage place is probably th tastiest snack ive had in my life. I will book a flight to myanmar just for that sometime in life again. I love cats, and could spend all day at the Jumping Cat Monastery on Inle Lake.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
Appreciate the write-up Original_Z. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 14:08
|
|
|
The adventures may not yet be over! One of our business partners there has invited me to their wedding in December. Sure, we got along well, but I didn't think that we were that close! I'm not really sure if it's a sincere invitation or not! I had mentioned that I wanted to return to the country and they said that they can try to arrange meetings and such around the wedding so I can attend during my next trip (although I do wonder how much actual work they'd be able to do in that regard). It seems like they're serious about it? I'd imagine that it'd be good for business for me to attend but I'm not sure if they're just inviting me to be polite and it would be awkward as hell if I did show up (I'd imagine that I'd be the only foreigner attending as well). I still have plenty of time to think about it, but if they actually did want me to join, I could probably work out a schedule around that timeframe and attend. I don't suppose anyone has any experience in that regard?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2016 10:18
|
|
|
Well, it turned out that my business contact scheduled her wedding for December 24th, which for obvious reasons makes it rather difficult for me to attend. Probably for the best, although she did seem sincere in inviting me. Instead, I'll be returning to Myanmar next week, Mandalay and Yangon again. Probably not too much has changed since I last left, but if I notice any changes or other interesting observations, I'll update this thread again. Staying at the same hotels and likely going to be doing the same activities, eating the same food for better or for worse. Maybe at least I can give some advice about going in September if nothing else. Already my Burmese colleagues have things they want me to give their former co-workers at the businesses I'll be visiting, last time I ended up taking a bunch of poo poo back from the Myanmar offices to give to my colleagues here, which I don't really mind doing but it sure fills up my luggage allowance quickly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2016 10:56
|
|
|
I really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm heading out to Yangon in the new year but have never been to Myanmar so this was really valuable. I've been to other nearby places (India, Thailand, etc) so have a pretty good idea of what to expect, but its always good to hear things firsthand, especially when a lot of the information available online is a bit outdated. I've been checking out flight costs from Yangon too and am pleased to find them pretty cheap - I believe business visas need to be renewed every 2 months so it seems I will be obligated to take a trip to BKK or Singapore every now and again!
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Glad to hear the information is useful! I actually took some notes from my recent trip but forgot to post them, I guess I'll do so now: The airport has had some changes. There's a new international terminal open which is much nicer than the old one. Bright, clean, a variety of shops and restaurants, and with a unique Myanmar design. Gives a much nicer impression than the old terminal, which is rather dingy and just feels dated. New domestic terminal is also being built and will probably be completed soon, which is great since the current domestic terminal is rather unimpressive, the building design actually has some character, like a palace interior, but the lighting is so poor and there's barely anything to do there, so it feels like an aircraft hanger. For sure, the new terminal will give a much better impression to tourists. Myanmar has a lot of domestic airlines, I think I counted like 6 or 7 of them, I can't imagine it's necessary to have so many. I've only flown air KBZ so far, no complaints. One interesting thing is that some of the flights land at other destinations to pick up and drop off passengers at cities on the way. You don't have to deplane and the stops are only a few minutes long. I've met with some returnees, those who lived overseas for a long period of time but have come back, from the educated class. Essentially, people who would have been considered insane to return under the old government. Most of them give the same answers for coming back, a combination of hope for the new govt, potentially excellent economic opportunities, and a feeling that they can possibly be involved with something to really help the county move forward and make a difference. Rather inspiring. Vibrant at night, lots of people hanging out and conversing on the streets and the open restaurants and bars. Real lively atmosphere, overall it seems like people like to just loiter around the streets and chat, feels like community is strong. I didn't try meeting random people, but I get the feeling it wouldn't be hard making friends by just going into a random bar. Better variety of adverts now in Mandalay, before it was mainly cement and coffee mix but now there are a lot more. Billboards for electronics, schools, and other consumer products. In Mandalay, traffic lights are slowly starting to be installed at intersections, also there are signs which mention traffic laws and speed limits, I don't think these were up in April. No big construction of huge buildings like in Yangon, but you can still see construction taking place. Foreign brands coming in, I saw a Timberland store that just opened. I do think that Mandalay will start to see the kind of economic activity at some sort of scale like Yangon. Some stops with "modern" designs are popping up, although due to using low-energy light bulbs they all look rather dingy inside. Just in the 6 months since I last came I can see some improvements, for sure this place will be different in 5-10 years. Naypyidaw is like an embarrassment to everyone I talk to, they all say that the most interesting thing about it is how large yet empty the roads are. Even when I mention how there could be potential business activity in the future, they seem completely uninterested. I suppose the biggest value of the city was the creation of a direct highway linking Yangon, NPD, and Mandalay. I do wonder if there could be some value for a business to invest there and gain an large foothold in the city. Lots of news about Obama meeting with Suu Kyi, lots of interest with expanded trade with America, people I talk to seem excited by the potential. Might be a lot of potential if the American companies take the market seriously. Apparently citizens here will no longer need a visa to visit Singapore in December? They seem happy about that. Most of the people I've met who speak acceptable English had studied or spent time in Singapore, and I notice that some domestic products have a Singapore office listed in the packaging. I had mentioned before about how personal relationships are everything here, and that was confirmed with my second visit. My business contacts mentioned how happy they were that I came again and that most of the other companies that they do work with only want to talk about business. I usually set up meetings and see how they go instead of sticking to a strict schedule (unless necessary). This time again they took me out sightseeing on days that were technically scheduled for meetings, and even when I was in the offices they'd take me out for lunch and shopping for a few hours before coming back. I can definitely imagine this frustrating someone who wants to keep to a schedule or is typically all business. I don't know if this is typical of other industries, but I feel like having good relationships are the key to succeeding here. One of our better partners said she felt like I feel like "family" (which in Myanmar means a friend or someone you're close with). Make no mistake though, when it does come time to talk about business, they're very serious and want to get their fair share. Regardless, something is working since our presence in the market has been expanding over the past few months and now businesses are contacting us for partnerships. I only took over Myanmar operations this year and the person who was in charge previously kind of just put it as a afterthought while focusing on other markets (after I took over our clients even mentioned this). I've been putting a lot of priority in the country and doing what I can to help the workers who get sent over, and they've definitely been noticing it. Word of mouth seems to be propelling us, and I've also been trying to get involved in some Japan-Myanmar events to network. Absolutely, the way to succeed here is to actually put priority in the country and not treat the market as a place to throw scraps from the rest of the SEA market. I do get the impression that they're sick of either not being able to have access to things due to sanctions, or being given table scraps for those that did come. I'm sure that the constant building of shopping malls is a symptom of this. I can see why some companies haven't put much thought into the market, but they're going to learn soon enough when a competitor comes up and steals all the business away. I really do wonder how the Americans will take advantage of lessened sanctions, at least Coca-Cola seems to be doing things right, I've noticed they have a lot of Myanmar-focused advertising and making a big deal of how there are local factories and everything is proudly bottled in the country. Japan is doing an interesting strategy, by creating partnerships and buyouts of existing local businesses. Yangon seems the same as before, some buildings under construction before have finished, and new buildings are being built up. Still had daily blackouts for the time I was there. I'm sure there are some new stores opening in the city but it's nothing I would notice. As an aside, Season's bakery makes excellent cookies! I was feeling a bit out of it one day and decided to meet with the hotel doctor, I just had a headache and nausea, likely either caused by the heat or drinking too much water in a short period of time, although he didn't seem interested in my guesses and just gave me a ton of medicine for headaches and nausea, really strong painkillers like xanax and some poo poo that had been banned in the states due to the awful side effects. Needless to say I didn't take any of it and just slept it off, felt better the next day. Since I'll probably go to the country again, I may try to take a few personal days during the visit and go to some of the more famous historical sites. I definitely had a better appreciation for the county on the second visit. Still, I probably wouldn't take a transfer position in the country! I'd imagine that the experiences of the expats who live there must be fascinating, definitely do share them when you move! Original_Z fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Oct 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2016 11:00
|
|
|
Original_Z posted:One interesting thing is that some of the flights land at other destinations to pick up and drop off passengers at cities on the way. You don't have to deplane and the stops are only a few minutes long. FWIW a lot of airlines do this. Even some of the Swiss Air flights out of Zurich have stopovers where some people deplane and others don't, before it continues on to its final destination. Thanks for the visit reports! Interesting to see how much has changed so quickly. As a tourist, it's a difficult decision on whether to go now before things have changed too much, or go later when things have changed but at least ATMs and hotels and transport and etc are easier to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2016 11:28
|
|
|
The transport is probably the biggest thing that makes things difficult. You really need to use taxis to do anything, the bus system seems too confusing, many of them have no air conditioning, and they're usually packed full with people hanging off of the doors so it's probably not worth exploring as a tourist. The train system is too undeveloped to be of use, but I do think that's what Yangon needs to really develop, make a system like Bangkok. Plenty of places to go shopping but no way to get there without a car, the heat makes it too dangerous to just walk around or bike everywhere. Having better public transportation should definitely be the #1 priority, it'll fix so many problems that the cities have but at the moment there do not seem to be any plans for improvement (I think that Japan will eventually make a bid to improve the rail network and develop subways as they have been heading similar projects in the region, but who knows how long that will take). English ability of taxi drivers greatly varies, although most of them at least know numbers to talk about prices. Interestingly, a couple of cab drivers I talked to still used the old names of locations (Scott Market and Lake Victoria). I actually researched the old names before I came (I'm interested in that sort of history) and knew what they were talking about, but all of the travel information online uses the new names and I'd imagine most tourists will just be confused. On a personal note, I really wonder what's going to happen with the naming of the country. The new government always used old names when referring to things, and many officials still say "Burma", but there have been no plans to revert anything under the civilian government. Usage of old names seems to vary greatly depending on the person, most people don't seem to care either way, some people say that using the old names is fine in some contexts, while other seem upset if you use the old names. I always wondered why Myanmar gets so much pressure about this, lots of countries such as Ceylon and Rhodesia changed their names once the colonists gave up control. Of course I do know that the government which decided it makes the matter more controversial. As for ATMs, they seemed plentiful from what I saw, plenty of bank branches around the cities and shopping centers also had them, along with areas near hotels. I did not use any ATMs so I do not know if they're a pain to use with foreign cards or have other restrictions. Most of the citizens I talk to do not trust banks and say that accessing their own money requires a lot of unnecessary red-tape. Hotels take credit cards but add an extra surcharge, some of the nicer stores seem like they would also take cards but I did not confirm this. At least in Yangon I think there are enough modern hotels being built so that you won't have a problem finding a place to stay, and several international brands also have a presence there. Mandalay is a bit more tricky and has far less options that would be acceptable to me. In case anyone would be interested, I can say a few words of the hotels I stayed at. They are a bit more expensive than other hotels you could stay at, but comparable to what you would pay for at other international cities (of course considering that you are in Myanmar it may seem overpriced, but I've seen plenty of developing countries with similarly expensive hotel options) and from what I researched, most of the cheaper options have problems which I don't want to have to deal with (although, if those things do not matter to someone, then there seems to be no lack of discount accommodation). They're good hotels and I do not see any reason to stay elsewhere for future travels: In Mandalay I stay at "Hotel by the Red Canal". It's a smaller place a bit far from the main shopping district, but close to the palace and some other places of interest, and there is a large supermarket just down the street. Beautiful grounds, feels more like a resort, atmosphere is very Burmese. Staff are incredibly polite and helpful, restaurant has excellent food. On my second stay there I was flagged as a VIP guest which gave me some extra benefits. Not sure if it's because it was my second stay, or they noticed that I wrote a positive review of the place online (they do seem to monitor online travel sites). In Yangon I stay at the Novotel. I'm an Accorhotels member so I've stayed at variety of their properties and by far this is the nicest Novotel I've ever seen. I almost feel like it should be branded as a Grand Mercure or another one of their 5-star brands. Beautiful interior, excellent restaurant options, excellent service with full recognition of member benefits. Right between Hledan Centre and Junction Square, two big shopping malls within walking distance and Hledan is an interesting district with some fun stuff to explore. It is a bit of a drive from the CBD, but not unreasonably so.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2016 02:34
|
|
|
Figured I might bump this thread again since I've just come back from three weeks travelling around Myanmar, our last stop on a 6 month tour of SEA. Feel free to ask any questions you might have, following is just a semi-random collection of thoughts. - The people are amazing. I've felt in Thailand a couple of times that the whole "land of smiles" thing was just a complete facade or performance, but here in Myanmar everyone seems genuinely happy to see you and acts with real warmth and hospitality. On the train between Mandalay and Tsipaw, the people out working in the fields would wave at the train just because, which I found really sweet. If you smiled at someone they would smile back, and if you say "mingalabar" (hello in Burmese) it almost makes their day. - Bagan is unbelieveable, and one of the highlights of our entire trip across SEA, not just Myanmar. I would 100% recommend going, and when you do grab an e-bike (electric moped). They're perfect for just putting around the plains, avoiding the busloads of geriatric French tourists and finding those hidden temples where it's just you, a kid selling postcards and a guy deep in prayer/meditation. - Inle Lake I think is seriously overrated, probably the most touristy place we visited. It felt like the only place we went that was entirely based around tourism - even Bagan felt like a local village in large parts. The boat trip around the lake was nice, but the "workshops" were awful tourist traps - yes I'm sure this old man in the corner makes the hundreds of "silver" necklaces by himself, strange that every shop has the same ones!! There's a surprisingly decent winery on the hill east of town that you can cycle out to in about 30 minutes. The Jumping Cat Monastery is no more - the monk who was training them passed away earlier this year, and nobody has picked up the hoop since. You can still go there (it'll be scheduled on the tour), but there's nothing hugely interesting to see unless you've never visited a Buddhist monastery before. - The hike from Kalaw to Inle was great (we did the 2D/1N option), especially the first day winding up and down through fields and hills. Very bucolic, especially in late November when the harvests are all being done. - We went way up north in Shan state to a town called Lashio, which is well off the tourist trail. Great little spot here as well where we did a local homestay at a Shan village (lucky enough to be there for their New Year celebrations!), as well as some stand-up paddleboarding and a waterfall trek as well. There's a great company run by a Canadian guy called Myanmar Adventure Outfitters that's trying to create local jobs and investment by bringing tourists there. Would recommend. - After the comments here about Myanmar food, I was quite pleasantly surprised with the food. Sure it's not distinctive or incredible like Chinese/Indian/Thai, but the curries we had were quite nice, and all the Shan food was really good too. Very cheap too unless you're going for the Western options every time. I liked their cafeteria style as well where you just pick a couple of dishes, they serve it too you with rice, some soup and a dessert. - Accommodation tended towards expensive, though almost everything else (except taxis) was cheap. As far as I can tell, there's generally no "budget backpacker" option like there is in most SEA countries - it just starts with the "crappy business hotel" at around $20 USD per night. We managed to find some okay ones though. - Getting around between cities takes loving forever - longer than you think. Coaches are your best option, though they still generally take ages. Overnight buses apparently aren't too bad, and crash a lot less than you might expect given the driving conditions and so on. And they're always goddamn freezing for who knows what reason! It's 15 degrees outside and everyone is rugged up in beanies, parkas and scarves purely because the air conditioning is set to "Siberian winter". And they hand out blankets  - ATMs are everywhere, like absolutely everywhere now. Bring some USD if you're really concerned (we had $40 as a just-in-case stash), but the ATMs at the airport all worked and we had no problems anywhere else. Note that all of them charge 5000 kyat ($5 USD) for foreign cards which is kinda outrageous - except for the bank with the curved rainbow logo, who charge 6500 kyat!! - Mobile coverage is really good now. Aside from the ultra-rural homestay villages, my Ooreedoo SIM gave me 3G coverage basically the whole time. They have a desk at the airport right after customs where you can buy a SIM - it cost 7000 kyat (about $7 USD) for 2GB of data, valid for a month. Plus you get free calls to anyone else on Ooreedoo, so your travelling companions can buy the same one and be able to call you. They have slightly more expensive ones too if you need a bit more data, or you can just buy pre-paid data packs at any shop anywhere in the country (usually about 3000 kyat per GB). Oftentimes your 3G will be faster than the hotel wifi because the hotel wifi is probably a 3G connection shared between 30 rooms  - My only real annoyance was that since literally everyone has bought a mobile phone in the past 3 years, a sense of etiquette hasn't really developed around it. So almost everyone has their conversations on speakerphone because it's easier to hear I guess? Everyone constantly plays music or watches TV shows on their phones using the speaker. Time for a quick round of Clash of Clans on a quiet bus? Max that volume, bro. - Outside of Yangon and Mandalay, it's desperately poor (though I don't think this is news to anyone). I hope there's more foreign investment and better opportunities, because the people are so nice they deserve much better. - A lot more western supermarket brands than I expected to find, though still not that many. Coke and it's properties (Fanta etc) are ubiquitous, you can usually find Oreos, and several brands of personal hygiene stuff like Head & Shoulders, Colgate etc. But outside of those, yeah it's just weird Chinese brands you've never heard of. Cars are almost uniformly Toyotas, mobile phones are mostly Oppo, Vivo, Huawei and a few other Chinese brands I've never heard of. No official Apple presence (though you can find guys selling older iPhones on the street), and only a few Samsung stores. Happy to answer any specific questions anyone has, if they're going or thinking about going. If you're not - I would definitely recommend going!! Particularly since although there are way more tourists there now than there used to be, it's still not that touristy. It's probably what Cambodia was like 10 years ago, when westerners first started going in earnest. One thing that makes a difference (and I realise how this sounds, but hear me out) is that large Chinese tour groups aren't allowed in. We encountered a few Chinese tourists (mostly immediate family unit sized groups), so they do have ways of getting in, but the enormous swarming bus hordes like you get in many parts of SEA haven't made it to Bagan yet. Oh and one interesting thing about Bagan - there was an earthquake in August this year which damaged a lot of the temples - way more than we expected. Most of the larger ones had scaffolding on them as a result. But apparently it's a blessing in disguise - there was a serious earthquake in 1975 which heavily damaged a whole lot of the temples, but the junta did a hilariously poo poo job at repairing them (eg modern styles, modern materials etc). It's why Bagan isn't a UNESCO World Heritage Site when it's probably even more impressive than Angkor Wat. But with this most recent earthquake, apparently most of the damage was to the lovely repairs from the 70s and 80s, and the ancient stuff is still standing no problem.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2016 14:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
webmeister posted:The Jumping Cat Monastery is no more - the monk who was training them passed away earlier this year, and nobody has picked up the hoop since. You can still go there (it'll be scheduled on the tour), but there's nothing hugely interesting to see unless you've never visited a Buddhist monastery before. That's really sad - I'm a cat freak, and spent almost an entire day at that monastery in 2003. Sounds like I wouldn't even recognize the country now. I got there the day after Aung San Suu Kyi was arrested in Mogok in mid-2003. I flew in with the English-language newspaper from Bangkok, which carried news of the arrest on its front page. For the next month in the country, most of the people had no idea she'd been arrested. There were no cell phones, no Internet, no ATMs. I carried my entire month's budget in US dollars, changing them to insanely cheap black-market kyat as necessary, after bribing the airport customs lady to avoid having to buy worthless Foreign Exchange Certificates. What are expenses like now? I was eating and drinking well on a backpacker budget of $20-25 per day.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2016 17:23
|
|