Auspol April - Long Live the Glorious State of North Queensland

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol April - Long Live the Glorious State of North Queensland

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lilbeefer: Oct 4, 2004

*before starting this thread

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:01

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# ? May 11, 2024 15:04

MonoAus: Nov 5, 2012

LibertyCat posted:

I don't recall anyone finding aboriginal written texts dating prior to European settlement, have you got a link?

That doesn't make it invalid.

It wasn't purely a numbers game and you know it. Europeans had massively advanced militaries (in comparison) and had greater numbers due to agriculture, cities, and the other hallmarks of civilization.

And what did it get them? As soon as another culture (with access to modern technology) decided it was mildly interested in taking over, they were done for. The Invasion was so easy most people don't consider it one because it was so massively one-sided.

As well as a few thousand years of technological developments. No-one has (on a large scale) decided giving up books, metal tools houses etc is a step forward.

I don't follow you, i don't want anyone to experience genocide.

Are these posts real?

"aboriginals didn't have a civilization because they didn't have books and cannons"

What are you even arguing here? That because the invasion of white people was one-sided they deserved to be occupied?

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:01

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

I mean when you think about it you lefties if we are to accept historical materialism for a moment, without the British invasion of Australia, Australia might have had to undergo several very intensely awful epochs if the Aboriginals had eventually developed agriculture. By fast-tracking them to capitalism they're that much closer to living in your socialist paradise. :smuggo:

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:15

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

How did the German Colonies go? Never learned much about them. They probably collapsed like Liberia.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:28

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Anidav posted:

How did the German Colonies go? Never learned much about them. They probably collapsed like Liberia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:33

Mr Chips: Jun 27, 2007; Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

Anidav posted:

How did the German Colonies go? Never learned much about them. They probably collapsed like Liberia.

We picked one up cheap in 1919 thanks to the treaty of Versailles.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:34

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

I thought they had east africa?

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:35

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Anidav posted:

I thought they had east africa?

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:39

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Anidav posted:

I thought they had east africa?

Yeah and west. Nairobi, ~~Angola~~ Namibia, Togo, Cameroon. They also bought parts of Micronesia off Spain.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:44

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

The main reason for the world wars was that the Germans and the Italians were butthurt about their weak colonial game.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 03:45

lilbeefer: Oct 4, 2004

open24hours posted:

The main reason for the world wars was that the Germans and the Italians were butthurt about their weak colonial game.

Where were Sweden then

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:11

Lizard Combatant: Sep 29, 2010; I have some notes.

I see the Liability Cat thread is running just as expected. Only 29 more days left!

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:12

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

fickle poofterist posted:

Where were Sweden then

They were too busy building Saabs and Volvos and having hot tub parties

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:14

bowmore: Oct 6, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Does anyone know any articles that outline what Asylum Seekers can currently apply for or are given visa wise depending on how they arrived in Australia? (or didn't)

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:15

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

Wasn't there an article recently about how out of 1500 people who actually applied through the "correct" channels only about 30 have been accepted?

The answer is the borders are closed unless you're coming from white countries.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:19

bowmore: Oct 6, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

starkebn posted:

The answer is the borders are closed unless you're coming from white countries.

Nah they are closed unless you get here on a legit visa and then apply for refugee status, your hosed otherwise as far as I can tell

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:26

The Lord Bude: May 23, 2007; ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

MonoAus posted:

Are these posts real?

What are you even arguing here? That because the invasion of white people was one-sided they deserved to be occupied?

This is exactly what he is arguing. He said as much in last month's thread:

LibertyCat posted:

I have no problem with calling it an Invasion. It was. We Won. Australian Territory is the spoils of war, exactly as lands have changed hands since time began.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:30

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

bowmore posted:

Nah they are closed unless you get here on a legit visa and then apply for refugee status, your hosed otherwise as far as I can tell

yeah so basically
'

starkebn posted:

The answer is the borders are closed unless you're coming from white countries.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 04:50

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

'It is withdrawn': Premiers reject Malcolm Turnbull's push to allow states to levy income tax

State and territory leaders have rejected a push toward "competitive federalism" by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull that would have allowed states to levy their own portion of the nation's income tax take.

The decision is a major loss for the government, coming just two days after Mr Turnbull announced the proposal, calling it "the most fundamental reform to the federation in generations" and "the only way that we can genuinely reform our federation". The plan was also spruiked by several government frontbenchers including Treasurer Scott Morrison.

"There was not a consensus among the states and territories to support further consideration of the proposal that would enable states to levy income tax on their own behalf," Mr Turnbull announced on Friday after the Council of Australian Governments meeting in Canberra.

He acknowledged the proposal was dead and it would not be resurrected by the Commonwealth. "There isn't anything like a consensus," he said. "That proposal is not there, it's withdrawn, it's not acceptable."

Instead, leaders agreed to consider a revenue sharing proposal that would mean states gain direct access to the growing pool of income tax, rather than remaining reliant on tied grants from the Commonwealth. Under such a model, the states would have greater autonomy to decide their own spending, but the total amount of revenue would remain fixed.

"We've agreed to consider income tax funding within the current funding envelope," the Prime Minister said.

Mr Turnbull on Friday turned the decision back on state and territory leaders, emphasising that tight budget conditions meant improvements to infrastructure and services would have to be made using the available revenue.

"We have to live within our means, that much is clear," he said. "There will be no raising of income tax. The states will not be levying an income tax and the Commonwealth will not be increasing income tax."

Mr Turnbull insisted the agreement to consider sharing income tax was still "an important step" in reforming the federation. "It will give the states greater financial autonomy to do their job of managing their affairs," he said.

Leaders agreed to a Commonwealth proposal for "Healthcare Homes", a new model of primary healthcare in which chronically ill patients would be encouraged to appoint a GP to take responsibility for their co-ordinated care. The aim was to reduce the number of unnecessary hospital visits made by patients with chronic illnesses such as diabetes.

The Commonwealth will also provide an extra $2.9 billion in hospital funding from July 1, 2017 to June 30, 2020.

State and territory leaders welcomed that commitment, although Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews said it did not make up for billions of dollars he said had been withdrawn from the health budget under the former Abbott government.

"Hundreds of millions of dollars of extra funding for Victorian hospitals does not replace billions of dollars that have been taken away from Victorian hospitals," Mr Andrews said.

Northern Territory Chief Minister Adam Giles, an early sceptic of the state income tax levy idea, said it would have been better if the proposal "came out in a different format and in a different way".

The plan was reported in national newspapers on Wednesday and then confirmed, in detail, by the Prime Minister at a doorstop interview.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...401-gnw4pc.html

# ? Apr 1, 2016 05:55

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Well that was agile, killed off after two days.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 05:55

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Anidav posted:

How did the German Colonies go? Never learned much about them. They probably collapsed like Liberia.

About as well as any European colony in Africa (see: rampant genocide).

# ? Apr 1, 2016 05:58

Magog: Jan 9, 2010

Gotta fail fast.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 05:59

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Jumpingmanjim posted:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...401-gnw4pc.html

lol

I guess it will be used as an excuse to deny the states funding though "We tried, we offered a perfectly workable solution that would have given the states access to the money they need but they didn't want it but I guess they don't actually want the money badly enough :shrug:

# ? Apr 1, 2016 06:02

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

gay picnic defence posted:

lol

I guess it will be used as an excuse to deny the states funding though "We tried, we offered a perfectly workable solution that would have given the states access to the money they need but they didn't want it but I guess they don't actually want the money badly enough "

That would be a dangerous move, though. Federal govt doesn't want the states in revolt against them because it makes life super difficult.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 06:04

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Cartoon posted:

It's gone noon in the eastern states Skelly. The A bomb isn't happening any more.

Colonial chat:

Of all the colonial powers you definitely didn't want to be colonised by (in order of badness).

Belgium (anybody remember the Congo?)
Spain (Hello Central and South America!)
then it's a nil all tie between England, Holland, Germany, France, Portugal, Other.

It was 11:48 when I posted that, southern scum.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 06:10

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Endman posted:

That would be a dangerous move, though. Federal govt doesn't want the states in revolt against them because it makes life super difficult.

Well they certainly hosed up handling Victoria then.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 06:35

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

From the ostagram thread:

# ? Apr 1, 2016 06:42

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Endman posted:

That would be a dangerous move, though. Federal govt doesn't want the states in revolt against them because it makes life super difficult.

The whole thing was a dangerous move from the start. I mean as if you wouldn't discuss it with the states in private beforehand instead of announcing it to the world and looking like a complete tit when you back away from it 48 hours later.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 06:56

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

Malcolm Turnbull isn't turning out as well as people had hoped

# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:06

G-Spot Run: Jun 28, 2005

Could they be deliberately trying to look bad in the hopes of giving Labour an election edge so they're left holding the economic slowdown/crash hot potato? Too much credit? I keep thinking this is plausible but I am constantly surprised by the dumb choices of others.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:11

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

Negligent posted:

Malcolm Turnbull isn't turning out as well as people had hoped

A lot of people thought that he was going to turn the Liberal party leftwards. I imagine he's doing considerably better than many of the Liberal voter base hoped.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:13

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

Veering back towards Australian invasion discussion... it was definitely a horrible murderous dispossession of the land's native inhabitants which continues to disadvantage them to this day, but, having said that, I can't say that I'd rather be an Aboriginal in the 1700s than an Aboriginal today.

And I don't like all the stuff where people go on about how the Aboriginals "lived in perfect harmony with nature" etc. It's close to noble savage stuff. Didn't they wipe out all the megafauna? Humans are humans, we shouldn't be idealising any sort of society.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:47

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

The Aztecs also ripped people's hearts out en masse in order to appease their gods, but the Spanish invasion of Central America was still super bad.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:52

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

freebooter posted:

And I don't like all the stuff where people go on about how the Aboriginals "lived in perfect harmony with nature" etc. It's close to noble savage stuff. Didn't they wipe out all the megafauna? Humans are humans, we shouldn't be idealising any sort of society.

I think there is a difference between acknowledging that their civilization lived for 40,000 or 50,000 odd years without completely loving up their environment, and idolizing the noble savage.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:56

Buck Turgidson: Feb 6, 2011; 𓀬𓀠𓀟𓀡𓀢𓀣𓀤𓀥𓀞𓀬

I didn't think biting into the onion was weird.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:01

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

Yes. The problem I think comes when Australians freak out at holding two different notions in their heads. They can't accept that the country they love might have done awful things in the past (or the present) and they can't accept that dispossession and colonisation is bad (and should be acknowledged and recompensed) even if the descendants of those who were dispossessed are better off than they would have been otherwise.

Which is the same as that old "British brought the railway to India" malarkey. Like, yes, they did, indisputably, craft India into a better nation than it would be otherwise, but that doesn't excuse the exploitation and horror.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:02

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

Frogmanv2 posted:

I think there is a difference between acknowledging that their civilization lived for 40,000 or 50,000 odd years without completely loving up their environment, and idolizing the noble savage.

Protecting the environment is very important but it's not the sole factor by which a civilisation should be judged.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:03

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

freebooter posted:

Protecting the environment is very important but it's not the sole factor by which a civilisation should be judged.

Ok, what other factors should a civilisation be judged by?

# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:06

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Endman posted:

The Aztecs also ripped people's hearts out en masse in order to appease their gods, but the Spanish invasion of Central America was still super bad.

# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:09

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# ? May 11, 2024 15:04

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Frogmanv2 posted:

Ok, what other factors should a civilisation be judged by?

Happiness of its citizens? Treatment of the downtrodden? Ability to stave off existential threats?

# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol April - Long Live the Glorious State of North Queensland

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