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Did WMATA finally kill the Accenture next gen fare system?
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Oct 18, 2016 19:44
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I think any fare system with physical gates is a bad one. Flow and service are so much more important than the pennies lost in fare avoidance. I love the gateless system the dutch use. Tap in at the start of your trip, tap out at the end. Works on just about every bus, metro, tram, and train in the whole country. You can get on a bus in one city, go to the train station, take a train to another city, ride a tram to your destination, all with one easy to use card.
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Oct 18, 2016 20:02
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llamaperl2 posted:Did WMATA finally kill the Accenture next gen fare system? Yeah.
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Oct 19, 2016 00:54
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Is it just me or does Accenture gently caress up every government project they get?
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Oct 19, 2016 01:05
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Not if your metric for success is Accenture making money
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Oct 19, 2016 01:22
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And as the weather heats up in Adelaide we get to play our favorite game of "will the signal network break on a hot day in summer." In Adelaide, there are a lot of hot days.
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Oct 19, 2016 01:53
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Baronjutter posted:I think any fare system with physical gates is a bad one. Flow and service are so much more important than the pennies lost in fare avoidance. I love the gateless system the dutch use. Tap in at the start of your trip, tap out at the end. Works on just about every bus, metro, tram, and train in the whole country. You can get on a bus in one city, go to the train station, take a train to another city, ride a tram to your destination, all with one easy to use card. It's not like the BART gates stop fare avoidance anyway. It's trivial to piggyback on someone else and are stuck open half the time.
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Oct 19, 2016 02:36
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NAT-T Ice posted:It's not like the BART gates stop fare avoidance anyway. It's trivial to piggyback on someone else and are stuck open half the time. The fuckers in the BART gates love to slam right into my kneecaps. Guess I need to hustle more.
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Oct 19, 2016 04:41
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Baronjutter posted:I think any fare system with physical gates is a bad one. Flow and service are so much more important than the pennies lost in fare avoidance. I love the gateless system the dutch use. Tap in at the start of your trip, tap out at the end. Works on just about every bus, metro, tram, and train in the whole country. You can get on a bus in one city, go to the train station, take a train to another city, ride a tram to your destination, all with one easy to use card.
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Oct 19, 2016 12:52
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its no big deal posted:I discovered this thread last evening and quickly read through a lot of it, although I'll admit not all. I live in Denver within two miles of work and bike, which has given me a new appreciation for urban design. I love cycling to work, but the stretch of Colfax around the Bluebird is a pain to deal with. Here's one that I follow for Denver specifically: http://denverinfill.com
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Oct 20, 2016 21:09
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Trains update: https://twitter.com/yungsenpai__/status/790201351082999808
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Oct 23, 2016 22:52
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mobby_6kl posted:The worst thing about DC metro from a tourist's POV are the loving incomprehensible fares and corresponding ticket machines. I even had to try to explaim it to some locals (well, Americans, at least). In think Munich had something similar, except also in German, so there I just gave up and just drove straight to the center. God bless NYC and its one ticket one ride. If you're a tourist you should just buy a day pass and not worry about it.
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Oct 25, 2016 21:36
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I want to get off the DC Metro's wild death spiral ridequote:Under Wiedefeld’s proposed fare increases, bus fares would rise 25 cents, to $2 per ride. For rail passengers, the minimum and maximum fares would increase to $2.25 and $6 respectively — up from $2.15 and $5.90. Off-peak trip fares on Metro would increase 25 cents, while peak-trip fares would increase a dime. The cost of daily parking would also increase by 10 cents.
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Oct 30, 2016 18:25
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Metro needs to be nationalized and the operations put out for private sector bidding. Let's get MTR from HK or SMRT from Singapore to deal with it. Bust up the union too, Metro's ATU local is a real live example of those "bad unions" that right wingers insist exist everywhere. Stockholm's metro has been run by MTR for years, this isn't some pie in the sky proposal. Soy Division fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Oct 30, 2016 |
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Oct 30, 2016 18:42
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mobby_6kl posted:The worst thing about DC metro from a tourist's POV are the loving incomprehensible fares and corresponding ticket machines. I even had to try to explaim it to some locals (well, Americans, at least). In think Munich had something similar, except also in German, so there I just gave up and just drove straight to the center. God bless NYC and its one ticket one ride. Like, if you want a weekly pass that covers rings 1 - 4 (so, all of Munich proper), there is no option to directly select that. Instead you gotta select two stops that are in the start and end rings, and I think it may even block you from doing so if the stop you're physically at isn't one of the two. Oh yeah and for some reason the ticket machines vary in what types of payment they accept. Some accept cash and German debit cards and credit cards, some accept only the cash and debit, some only cash, and they even vary in which bills they're currently accepting. It's incredible how poorly thought out everything is. tl;dr the ticket machines' UX there makes Nintendo's eShop design look smart and streamlined by comparison Cicero fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 10:46
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Are there any cities in the world with an extensive subway system that's totally free for the riders? I can't imagine it happening in the US since the massive screaming about unfairness from non-riders would drown it out. On a weird level, I could see DC being vaguely able to argue it since their ridership is spread out over multiple states even for "locals" plus huge numbers of temporary riders for gov/biz/tourism. DC clearly can't afford it alone, but it could be allotws funds in a way similar to how DC gets a federal disbursement for all the tax-free federal land it has that it has to indirectly support and can't raise revenue from. Just fantasy in the US, but does anyone have non-pay rail systems? Any easy to find numbers on what percentage of the costs in a system is tied up in managing a fare system?
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Oct 31, 2016 17:53
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I'll post a little more about Bogotá's pseudo-rail fancy bus system later, but I always loved the chaos of the signage for the informal private buses: Bogotá distinguishes between calle and carrera, like streets and avenues, with carrera being roughly north-south and Calle east-west. There's a trend to abbreviate carrera as "K" to distinguish the two. But in any case as you can see, private buses just list out all major streets and neighborhoods they go through, so you stand by the roadside, read like crazy, and try to identify and flag down the one you want. I may have mentioned earlier, hailing apps have become so ubiquitous in Bogota, some times of day it's totally impossible to flag a cab by hand since any empty cab you see is en-route to a smartphone pickup. If folks are curious, I can write more later about transit in Liberia. One thing I really wish I'd debriefed folk on for a paper, or recorded for YouTube, is that people flag down private taxis, "shared cars" via hand signs. You see people by the roadside patting their heads, waving two fingers down, or whatever, and that indicates their destination, so a car with three passengers heading downtown will watch for more folks making the downtown signal to pick up. For reference a Toyota Corolla will commonly hold a driver and six adult passengers, which is a little unnervy during Ebola outbreaks.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:08
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There are a few smaller bus systems around the world that have gone fare free. I think it can work in theory on a system that is far below capacity where the relative cost of collecting a fare is expensive, and the gains in ridership can be easily accommodated because there's plenty of excess capacity in the system. I think it falls apart where that extra demand would require extra service, and in theory any system with heavy rail should be well enough utilized that it shouldn't have that much excess capacity laying around. Of course I see the irony in saying that while I have an unlimited ride transit pass so I never think about how much a ride costs, I just take the ride.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:08
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I took the metro from Greenbelt (Maryland) to Eisenhower (Virginia) today. $5.90 during peak hours to ride a drat train. The system is so hosed.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:48
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Are there any cities in the world with an extensive subway system that's totally free for the riders? I can't imagine it happening in the US since the massive screaming about unfairness from non-riders would drown it out. On a weird level, I could see DC being vaguely able to argue it since their ridership is spread out over multiple states even for "locals" plus huge numbers of temporary riders for gov/biz/tourism. DC clearly can't afford it alone, but it could be allotws funds in a way similar to how DC gets a federal disbursement for all the tax-free federal land it has that it has to indirectly support and can't raise revenue from. There are "trust" based fare systems out there like in Portland Oregon or Tallinn but I think in both cases they are still fare inspectors. As for DC, I actually doubt the union is the key issue compared to such a lack of funding/deferred maintenance for decades. Fares are going up because there is no other way to operate the system.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:52
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Ardennes posted:There are "trust" based fare systems out there like in Portland Oregon or Tallinn but I think in both cases they are still fare inspectors. This is known as proof of payment FYI. You are required and expected to pay, and fare inspectors will spot check and right citations. Here in Minnesota it's a misdemeanor with a fine of up to $180 for paying without valid proof of payment. In theory you should get inspected enough that it's not worth taking the chance.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:27
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FISHMANPET posted:This is known as proof of payment FYI. You are required and expected to pay, and fare inspectors will spot check and right citations. Here in Minnesota it's a misdemeanor with a fine of up to $180 for paying without valid proof of payment. In theory you should get inspected enough that it's not worth taking the chance. That said, I've never seen an actually, by design, free system. The only exception are those buses that take you to Ikea or something. TapTheForwardAssist posted:I'll post a little more about Bogotá's pseudo-rail fancy bus system later, but I always loved the chaos of the signage for the informal private buses: Looks like Addis Ababa is supposed to have a similar thing with hand signals, so I never managed to flag one down successfully and relied on an actual taxi instead, which was an ancient Lada.
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Oct 31, 2016 23:29
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Maera Sior posted:I took the metro from Greenbelt (Maryland) to Eisenhower (Virginia) today. $5.90 during peak hours to ride a drat train. Realistically, they are still far below the market rate for the train fare. They could still out compete driving as long as the fare is below the cost to park+gas+wear and tear + insurance. Parking is like 250/month, just at work. We'll ignore the price to park at your apartment. Gas is probably going to vary a lot but a tank a week is probably pretty average so around 80 a month. Insurance is probably 100 dollars and wear and tear is about 30/mth (using a standard IRS rate of $.14 a mile, 10 miles a day, and 20 days a month). We are also ignoring the opportunity cost of increased commutes via car. That's like $460 a month to drive. This probably under estimates the cost because we are ignoring costs to park at home. Significantly more than even after the proposed rate hikes.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:03
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Speaking at least for myself, I think a lot of folks think of cars as both a necessity and a sunk cost, so that diminishes the appeal of transit. Having lived car-free for five years (might need to change depending where I settle in) it really strikes me how much a sunk cost I viewed cars, even not really pondering gas prices unless for really long trips. I definitely make a lot more unnecessary trips when I have or am borrowing a car. Living in Austin now without a car, I take a bus to other areas and get my drink on, yet somehow when I lived here with a car I'd drive myself downtown, fight for parking, give myself a one-beer limit and then sodas. Just somehow never consIdered just busing to nightlife even though it's only minutes longer of a trip. Owning a car just has a huge cultural effect.
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Nov 1, 2016 01:04
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Nitrousoxide posted:Realistically, they are still far below the market rate for the train fare. ETA: I grew up in Boston, which has flat fares. The bus pass is rolled into the commuter passes as well. Paying >$200 for the monthly metro pass, plus another $45 for a bus pass, is mind-boggling. Maera Sior fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 01:23
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FISHMANPET posted:There are a few smaller bus systems around the world that have gone fare free. Tacoma, WA's light rail was free until fairly recently, but it's a four stop "line" with no plans to expand, as far as I know. One end at the Sounder (commuter rail) station, the other at the stadium.
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Nov 1, 2016 01:38
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Speaking at least for myself, I think a lot of folks think of cars as both a necessity and a sunk cost, so that diminishes the appeal of transit. I think part of the issue is that, as soon as you need a car for even one thing, you have that car for everything and you only consider the marginal cost of using it for something where it wouldn't be necessary.
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Nov 1, 2016 04:37
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Why does it have to be one or the other? I get subsidized parking and $100/month in transit reimbursements. I take the train to work most days, but will drive when I have errands in town or if I need to get to/from work at unusual hours. It's probably a lot easier to convince people to take transit 3-4 days a week versus not driving entirely. One of the ways to do this is to encourage employers to offer both transit and personal vehicle commute subsidies instead of forcing employees to choose one or the other. sincx fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 06:16
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Maera Sior posted:This is a company that gives $135/month in Metro fare or free parking on-site. If they want to move people to public transit, they need to make it obviously cheaper than driving, and that's means removing parking subsidies. Boston's system is pretty broke. MBTA's operating budget is larger than WMATA's for almost identical ridership. Their system is incredibly cash-strapped, and the state a few years ago passed a law to limit how much MBTA can raise their rates, exacerbating the issue. Massachusetts had to raise their sales tax to keep MBTA afloat, and that system is still in debt to the tune of $500 million. MBTA's capital improvement fund hasn't had any money put into it for years, and their maintenance backlog is in the multiple of billions. Their flat fare system is unsustainable, sorry to say. Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 15:46
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Gail Wynand posted:Metro needs to be nationalized and the operations put out for private sector bidding. Let's get MTR from HK or SMRT from Singapore to deal with it. Bust up the union too, Metro's ATU local is a real live example of those "bad unions" that right wingers insist exist everywhere. Would any of you more knowledgeable goons mind doing a primer on private(-public) mass transit? I know that they've been successful in Tokyo, HK, and Singapore, but I also know it was a disaster in England under Thatcher.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:51
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sincx posted:Why does it have to be one or the other? I'd love to know why they don't allow a combination. People who may need to put in occasional 12 hour days could be forced into driving, since public transit can really screw them over. (Commuter rails, I'm looking at you.)
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Nov 1, 2016 15:57
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Parking Contracts (and really transit passes as well) are a monthly thing. If I have a parking pass then it costs me $200 to park the first time and it's free every other time. Same with my transit pass, my first ride costs me $65, the rest are free. We don't really have the mindset/systems in place to offer both options to people.
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Nov 1, 2016 16:39
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Do they give out parking spaces individually? Our office is in a business park on the outskirts of the city rather than downtown but the way it's done is there are maybe like 20 spaces per 50 people, all on first-come first serve basis, but it's usually at most 80% full. The assumption is that most people would be using public transport most of the time but if anyone needs to drive, it's not a problem either. They also give (or used to) like twenty bucks or so per month to contribute to the transit pass or gas.
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Nov 1, 2016 22:48
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This thread desperately needs at least one post on the SEPTA strike, currently in its 6th day. Negotiations are ongoing today. SEPTA Regional Rail and suburban transit buses/trolleys are not affected. An attempt at an injunction to stop the strike on Friday on the grounds of public welfare yesterday failed; the current top concern is surrounding SEPTA functioning on Election Day. The PAC My Ride to Vote has raised sufficient funds to partner with Uber, Lyft, and Zipcar to offer free rides to the polls for all in Pennsylvania using the code VOTEPA. My understanding of the situation is that the union is seeking to discuss pension and health benefits, bathroom breaks, and operating fatigue, but as always information is somewhat vague during these internal negotiations. If anyone knows more, please feel free to chime in.
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Nov 6, 2016 22:01
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mobby_6kl posted:Do they give out parking spaces individually? Our office is in a business park on the outskirts of the city rather than downtown but the way it's done is there are maybe like 20 spaces per 50 people, all on first-come first serve basis, but it's usually at most 80% full. The assumption is that most people would be using public transport most of the time but if anyone needs to drive, it's not a problem either. They also give (or used to) like twenty bucks or so per month to contribute to the transit pass or gas. It depends on both the organization and the location of said organization. My internship in university was an office complex on the periphery of a university in another town. There were parking passes to hang from the rear view to keep uni kids from parking there and just walking onto campus, but the lot itself was big enough that it boiled down to first come first serve and the lot itself was never really full. My first job out of college was a private org in central Boston. There they had a monthly commuter subsidy, which amounted to basically either a fully paid transit pass, a cheap commuter rail pass, or essentially a half cost monthly parking garage payment for a short walk to the office, or a cheaper lot with a longer walk to the office. If you were really close to the VP that managed that office, you actually got a parking spot in the building itself for free (which everyone agreed was total bullshit.) My current gig is in downtown Denver for the government. The office complex itself has a dedicated parking garage, but there are more employees in the office then there are spaces in the garage. So at this point you either get put on the waiting list for the wait list at the garage (plus a monthly payment) or you pay $10 a month for a full transit pass. My mom and dad, when they worked in the suburbs of Denver, never had to worry about parking spaces or even parking permits.
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Nov 7, 2016 03:14
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The SEPTA strike is over, just in time for the system to once more be fully operational by Election Day. Speaking of which... U.S. ELECTION DAY MEGA-POST Here's what's on the ballot tomorrow in the way of transit referenda: Los Angeles Measure M GIF of present system and future projects:  Funding mechanism: permanent 0.5% increase in Los Angeles County sales tax (in addition to current 0.5% transit sales tax) Cost of new projects/amount funded: $120 billion Required vote percentage to pass: 66% Detroit  Funding mechanism: 20-year 1.2 millage ($1.20 property tax for every $1,000 of taxable value of a home) Cost of new projects/amount funded: $4.74 billion Required vote percentage to pass: 50% Seattle Sound Transit 3  Funding mechanism: 0.5% sales tax, 0.8% motor vehicle excise tax, property tax of $0.25/$1,000 of assessed valuation Cost of new projects/amount funded: $53.8 billion Required vote percentage to pass: 50% Atlanta  Funding mechanism: 0.5% sales tax Cost of new projects/amount funded: $2.5 billion in first 40 years Required vote percentage to pass: 50% Raleigh     Funding mechanism: 0.5% sales tax Cost of new projects/amount funded: $2.3 billion in first 10 years Required vote percentage to pass: 50% San Francisco This is a BART maintenance project that would upgrade and repair stations, tracks, tunnels, electrical power systems, train control systems, and other infrastructure. Funding mechanism: levied bonds; tax of $2.02 per $100,000 of assessed valuation that would rise to $17.49 per $100,000 of assessed valuation by 2035 Cost of new projects/amount funded: $3.5 billion Required vote percentage to pass: 66% Indianapolis   Funding mechanism: income tax of 0.25% Cost of new projects: $390 million Required vote percentage to pass: 50% Combed Thunderclap fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 16:37
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Oh my god we have a transit thread? Prepare for an incoming mega-post in the next few days about how hosed WMATA is. I've been following it very closely since 2010 and want to share all my thoughts on it.
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Nov 7, 2016 17:30
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California's insane 66% requirement is so stupid. I imagine they can pass easily, but does anyone think they'll be able to get 66%?
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Nov 7, 2016 18:19
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:If folks are curious, I can write more later about transit in Liberia. One thing I really wish I'd debriefed folk on for a paper, or recorded for YouTube, is that people flag down private taxis, "shared cars" via hand signs. You see people by the roadside patting their heads, waving two fingers down, or whatever, and that indicates their destination, so a car with three passengers heading downtown will watch for more folks making the downtown signal to pick up. For reference a Toyota Corolla will commonly hold a driver and six adult passengers, which is a little unnervy during Ebola outbreaks. Baltimore City has an informal hack system. If you see someone wagging a finger out toward traffic kind of like they were hitchhiking with their index finger, they're looking for a hack taxi ride. From wikipedia: quote:In Baltimore, USA, supermarkets in working-class neighborhoods frequently have "courtesy drivers"[citation needed] who, although not employed by the supermarket, have shown identification to management and are allowed to wait in front of the store for fares. Unlike licensed cab drivers, these courtesy drivers will also help to carry groceries up to one's apartment.[19] "Hacking" in Baltimore has grown grass-roots style to a region-wide phenomenon, originating from "Hack Clubs", organizations usually operating in converted rowhouses where "hacks" made their cars available, distributed business cards with a central number, employed a "dispatcher", and hung around the rowhouse waiting in line for calls. This practice continues today, but hacking has evolved to the point where people nowadays just wag a finger toward the street, and wait for anyone to stop. This new way of getting around remains popular, despite being potentially dangerous, due to disillusionment with the city transit service, and the fact that licensed cabs seldom stop for fares in the most dangerous parts of town. There are plenty of willing drivers, and competition can be fierce. The fare is negotiated and paid upfront. Police maintain this is illegal, and sometimes enforce with $500 tickets, and a trip to the courthouse. However, hacking is so prevalent in certain parts of town that cops don't bother making traffic stops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_taxicab_operation#In_working-class_neighborhoods
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Nov 7, 2016 19:03
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Voted +1 in Detroit for the RTA. Of course, my wife's a transit advocate so I've been in the tank for transit for years.
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Nov 7, 2016 19:24
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