Godzilla & Kaiju Movies: the most fun a man can have in a rubber suit

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Godzilla & Kaiju Movies: the most fun a man can have in a rubber suit

Beeez: May 28, 2012

The Gareth Edwards Godzilla wasn't bad, but I still feel as though Godzilla's presence wasn't really felt enough for most of the movie. The term "characterization" might work, I suppose. I don't really mind limited screen time for Godzilla, but my favorite movies really give him that indirect characterization and building of tension where we get hints at him and we see the effect his existence has on the world around him. They do this quite well for the MUTOs, but I don't know if they took it for granted that everybody already knows Godzilla or what, but he feels like largely an afterthought outside of the few scenes where he's actually doing something. It's pretty similar to how Starkiller Base is utilized in The Force Awakens, it feels to me like the Edwards Godzilla is a MUTO movie with Special Guest Star Godzilla. I also found Aaron Taylor Johnson's performance very boring, but they had some interesting ideas for that character beyond him being the stock "military guy". Even though it's not my absolute favorite giant monster movie I'm still looking forward to Godzilla vs Kong and the other two sequels.

Anyway, I'm hella excited for Godzilla Resurgence after this trailer. I like the design a lot, I quite like the elements that are similar to Burning Godzilla, though I hope they're there to simply further visually represent his nuclear origins rather than repeating the meltdown plot. I just hope it's not very anime-ish.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2016 14:04

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 17:18

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Detective Dog Dick posted:

It should be mentioned that Shinji Higuchi, the VFX director, was responsible for arguably the best looking suitmation ever in Gamera 3 and is likely to top himself here. The shot of the tail swinging over the houses in the trailer is spectacular.

I agree with you about Shinji Higuchi, but August Ragone, who's pretty in the know when it comes to Japanese monster and superhero stuff, is claiming that he heard this Godzilla was made with a mix of digital rendering and animatronic puppeteering rather than any suitmation, and Toho is calling it a "fully CG" Godzilla. But I don't know what to believe, as the opening of the trailer with Godzilla roaring moves like a hand puppet. Well, regardless of how they bring Godzilla to life this time, Shinji Higuchi's involvement is the most exciting part for me. The Gamera movies have the best sense of scale out of any suitmation monster movie I can think of, and the special effects in general just work really well for the most part(there's admittedly some weird puppet work in Gamera: Guardian of the Universe).

# ¿ Apr 16, 2016 02:25

Beeez: May 28, 2012

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

It's like when Pirates of the Carribean came out, and Johnny Depp's Captain Jack Sparrow got all the attention, when the actual best performance came from Geoffrey Rush.

That's not to say that Taylor-Johnson did a better job than Cranston, but that he had the vastly more difficult job of being quiet and internal. All subtle gestures and ambivalent expressions.

"What makes Godzilla more significant than just another summer blockbuster is Ford�s personal rectitude and his steadfast profile. The back of Taylor-Johnson�s neck and head are as unbowed as his spine. His wide eyes show a sensitive alertness the worried scientists lack. Courageous and daringly eager, he�s an action figure for a war-weary age."
_{-Armond White}

Are there really people who don't think Geoffrey Rush was fantastic in Pirates of the Caribbean?

# ¿ Apr 16, 2016 03:12

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Bob Quixote posted:

GMK is such an odd movie. Its one of my favorites of the Millenium series in terms of monster design and the crazy battles but I was never quite sure what Godzilla was supposed to represent.

Was he the souls of the dead taking vengeance on Japan for their war of conquest? Was he attacking because they tried to forget about the war or push some of the nastiest aspects of it under the rug?

It's been a while since I've seen it, but that part was puzzling.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Everything in GMK centers around a quick reference to the Blair Witch Project, and a more exhaustively-explored theme of kids these days not being afraid of Godzilla anymore:

Manager: Attention: Godzilla is approaching. Everyone evacuate this store at once.
Shopper: Godzilla... who cares?

Yuri (host of a cheesy 'ghost hunter' show): You don't sound interested [in Godzilla].
Her boss: Godzilla is pass�.

Since (in the continuity of this film) this is the first kaiju attack in ~50 years, the idea is that only the 1954 film was 'real'. The whole 'nuclear holocaust' aspect has been pushed to the wayside as every subsequent film moved away from the horror genre. GMK is a film about how Japan has been at peace for decades, so what use is Godzilla?

The film's answer, in a subtle sort of way, is that Yuri uses the creation of a Godzilla movie to bond with her father - a Hiroshima survivor.

All of this is kind of accurate. Nobody cares about Godzilla/the war/the threat of a nuclear holocaust anymore, it's pass�. But at the end of the movie Yuri and her father can now connect with each other on a deeper level because they've both experienced it. It's kind of fun to think about Godzilla '54, Return of Godzilla, and GMK as a trilogy in that way, because one was made less than ten years after nuclear bombs really did go off, Return of Godzilla was made during the Cold War where everyone was terrified that the world would be awash in a sea of nuclear flame, and GMK was made more recently, where everyone's pretty blas� about these things that were terrifying back in the day.

Bob Quixote posted:

Godzilla vs. Humans just isn't as fun a conflict to see in the movies as Godzilla vs. other monsters though.

The 1954 original is a great film, but in terms of sheer entertainment/spectacle it can't compare with something like Terror of Mechagodzilla or Godzilla vs. Monster Zero. Godzilla by himself tearing down a city just takes disaster movie setpieces and puts a giant dinosaur at the epicenter instead of an asteroid/earthquake/etc. and you can only see him walk unfazed through missiles so many times before it starts to wear thin.

I prefer it when there's both. Obviously there are good/fun movies with every variation of Godzilla, but even when I was a child I preferred the movies where Godzilla wasn't too friendly, just useful when other monsters were around.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2016 01:10

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Maxwell Lord posted:

The Godzilla design here, along with the scarring, looks a bit like some of the maquettes and publicity mock-ups from the original, which showed Godzilla with a proportionally larger head than on the suit. (I assume the suit design was altered for weight/balance reasons since they had a hell of a time making the costume at all mobile.)

Yeah, I noticed that too, it also doesn't have visible ears just like that mock-up version, it almost resembles the mock-up even more than the actual suit from the original.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2016 02:50

Beeez: May 28, 2012

korusan posted:

Rewatched Godzilla 2014 last night.

I have trouble caring about the complaint of the main protagonist being boring. He's not the most interesting person ever, but he explicitly doesn't need to be because this movie cares about the personal milieu insofar as how giant monsters invade it, and how they serve as an extension of the people themselves. The point isn't to have everyone be super zany, super interesting, or super deep because the reality is most people simply aren't those things. Now of course this is a movie so we have to dress human lives up for the drama a bit, but a lot of the movie's point is to dwarf human lives compared to the awe and spectacular of ancient monsters and newer monsters engaging in combat. Their battle is a spiritual battle, and the reason parts of the characters feel incomplete or bland is because the monsters are supposed to be considered as part of that whole; remove the monsters from the picture and you have normal people going about their normal, uninteresting lives rather than people who'd be acting wacky or strange regardless.

Sure, but most Godzilla movies aren't as long nor do they focus so much on a single human protagonist. We follow Ford's movements more than we do either of the monsters, especially Godzilla, so it's all the more noticeable that he's kind of bland and cipher-ish. The movie had plenty to recommend it, but I think the MUTOs and Joe Brody had way more characterization and were far more of a driving force of the plot than Godzilla or Ford Brody, and for me it was too imbalanced. Particularly for Godzilla, who seems almost forgotten when he's not onscreen for much of the movie. Ford, on the other hand, seems to be the camera for the movie, where he's the PoV we see most of the movie from but he gets very little characterization or plot drive. Which, as you said, might be partially intentional, but if there's nothing to latch onto then there's no reason to identify with him beyond the fact that he's a human and not a monster.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2016 21:55

Beeez: May 28, 2012

That's absolutely right, but also Mothra has more powers than Superman.

# ¿ May 1, 2016 21:08

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Why would you need to explain Godzilla's return? He falls into the water fighting King Kong and he washes ashore with Mothra's egg during a storm.

# ¿ May 4, 2016 22:03

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Yeah, I definitely never thought Godzilla was supposed to be dead in King Kong vs Godzilla.

# ¿ May 4, 2016 22:43

Beeez: May 28, 2012

The Gamera trilogy is the main reason I'm excited for this new Godzilla even more than the base level of excitement I would normally have for any Godzilla movie.

# ¿ May 6, 2016 04:13

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Shinji Higuchi is the one who does the monster scenes in the Gamera movies, but otherwise you're right about the strengths of those scenes compared to the 90s Godzilla movies.

# ¿ May 8, 2016 19:25

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Detective No. 27 posted:

Goddamn. So presumably 5 years before Shin Godzilla 2 is in theatres. 6 years before it gets a limited US run. 7 years until the Blu-ray is out.

At least we'll have at least two American Godzilla features in that time.

That's not what happened for the first Shin Godzilla.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2017 00:08

Beeez: May 28, 2012

On the topic of Godzilla's tail, I think those creatures are said in Toho materials to be about 6-7 meters tall. Which makes sense, because a person wouldn't look that big compared to Godzilla. Also, I think that thematically it is supposed to represent Godzilla responding to the cooperation between humanity, at least in part, but I don't think that it's supposed to be something where the in-universe character of Godzilla is directly doing that because humans are defeating him. I don't think Godzilla or his cells adapt in that direct of a way, and I don't think Godzilla even seems to really register that the humans are the ones stopping him.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2017 15:16

Beeez: May 28, 2012

Both the ending of Kong and the official synopsis for King of the Monsters seem to imply Ghidorah is from Earth. But I think it'd be cool if they made Ghidorah the thing that killed the dinosaurs in prehistoric times, like in the later Mothra movies.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2017 01:45

Beeez: May 28, 2012

How much of a "heroic defender" either one of them is is debatable anyway. Aside from Kong respecting Brie Larson's character after she tries to help that water buffalo, both Godzilla and Kong seem to be indifferent to humans for the most part. The Legendary Godzilla is a protector of the Earth, but not of people in particular.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2017 15:49

Beeez: May 28, 2012

According to the script, he does fight back at the Golden Gate bridge. The fact that it cuts away means that we can't be sure if that's true in the actual movie, but that was the intent in the script. Also, Godzilla isn't literally Joe Brody. I think SMG just means they're ideologically the same, and SMG's readings are just that, not something that can be taken as axiomatically true.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2017 16:03

Beeez: May 28, 2012

I'm not denying any of that, I haven't seen that movie in years so I don't remember all the details anyway. I'm just saying the fact that it's not literal means that it probably isn't guiding Godzilla's motivation as a character.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2017 16:27

Beeez: May 28, 2012

I think War of the Gargantuas is the best non-Godzilla monster movie. Rodan is kind of slow, though the last 20-30 minutes are amazing and I think it's interesting how a lot of it is focused on miners rather than scientists or military personnel.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2017 16:09

Beeez: May 28, 2012

DeimosRising posted:

Gamera 3, X From Outer Space, are we not counting Kong movies?

I guess I should have said Toho monster movies. I've never seen the X From Outer Space, either.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2017 02:52

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 17:18

Beeez: May 28, 2012

The reviews for the prequels weren't that bad anyway, they weren't great but they weren't the angry nerd hyperbole that is now associated with those movies.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2017 15:37

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Godzilla & Kaiju Movies: the most fun a man can have in a rubber suit