Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

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dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

So if I want to check out Guilty Gear, should I just wait for Revelator to come out in June? I'd get SIGN but I dunno if I want to drop 30 bucks with a new game coming out so soon.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2016 15:41

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 20:06

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Oh, wait a sec. I thought Revelator was already out for PS4 and the PC release was in June. Looks like I'll get SIGN on Steam after all, when I get around to it..

# ¿ Apr 15, 2016 21:50

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

whoops, wrong thread

dhamster fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Apr 16, 2016

# ¿ Apr 16, 2016 21:49

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

AndyElusive posted:

I shouldn't buy a Madcatz Alpha for $140 should I? I mean the reviews aren't that great but I like how small it is but still, it's generally agreed that it's a bad purchase right?

Don't buy a Madcatz Alpha

# ¿ Apr 20, 2016 01:13

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

samco posted:

Could you elaborate at all? I'm interested in giving fighting games a try and was looking into this stick as it seemed like a relatively okay stick with upgrade potential should I find myself getting more serious.

Is this not the case? What would you recommend doing instead?

I was in the same boat recently and bought a Qanba Q1 for ~$120 with shipping, and later put in some silent Sanwa buttons for $20~30. Hori Arcade and the full-sized Madcatz sticks seem to be better recommended, but at the time I bought my stick there wasn't much to choose from in that price range.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2016 19:42

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Here's an annoying bit about lobbies: if you set it to "First to 2" or more, the player that wins can decline to play the second match, and still stay on to play the next person in line. So like ranked, you aren't really guaranteed a second set in lobbies.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2016 02:52

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Garnavis posted:

What I'm wondering is why I see so many people playing Championship Edition on FightCade. I get the impression people hold Hyper Fighting in high regard, but what makes CE worth playing today?n

It's the oldest version of sf2 where the boss characters were playable, and mirror matches were allowed. Not sure besides that

# ¿ Apr 25, 2016 02:35

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Really liking Guile so far. I think the way I'd been trying play Ryu suits Guile's kit. Having a way easier time hitting flash kicks on reaction compared to DPs, and I don't get punished as often for getting cute with projectiles. Plus I'm digging his v-system and suplex animation.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2016 08:04

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

punk rebel ecks posted:

I watched your long play of the game. While it isn't the worst looking game in the world, visually its a mess. For example it took me three minutes in real time before I could tell that their were sprite characters that were holding shields and and a weapon. Let that sink in for a second, the prime character aesthetic in the game "2D character sprites with 3D enviornments" wasn't just lost in translation, but immediately unknown.

There are a few reasons to this:

The first thing is the color. The weapons and especially characters don't look much different from the general environment. The characters you played as in the game are a mix of gray, black, purple, and brown. The environment is full of gray, black, purple, and brown. This results in things being very difficult to make out when playing. The same goes for the character's weapons and shields.

The second is the animation. The weapons and shields do have something the characters don't, that makes them a little more recognizable, which is that they animate somewhat. In contrast the character sprite which hardly animate at all. I get that sprite animation is more difficult to do than 3D, but this doesn't really apply for low resolution pixel art. I managed to create more animations for more detailed characters by myself in like an hour. There is not reason why there should be such a lack of animation frames. I mean the characters don't even have different animation when they travel diagonally up as opposed to diagonally down. This doesn't just go for the sprites however, the animations for many weapons, especially the bow, are very sudden and choppy. They are pretty difficult to read.

The final reason is design. Take a look at the first characters you two plays as in the longplay. They don't have faces but helmets with holes in them. This makes it pretty difficult to tell where they are facing. Add in the lack of animations and that their color blends in with the surroundings and its no wonder I couldn't see the characters at first. There are also some weapons and shields that just make things confusing. That back shield is an ideal example of this, it is very difficult just to tell what that is at first. And even when you know what it is it is still off. But this confusion just doesn't happen during gameplay, it happens in the menu too. I mean I couldn't even tell what I was looking at at first.

Not to sound harsh, just being honest. I will be at Combobreaker so I'll try it out there.

You see, it creates mixup opportunities. When you close in on your opponent, they have to make several hard reads: Which way are they facing? Which way am I facing? Which character am I? Why isn't my character made of voxels like everything around him seems to be?

# ¿ May 25, 2016 19:49

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

anothergod posted:

Posting this here and in the Making Games Megathread. We're doing some promotion before Combo Breaker this weekend. Here are some download keys. If you nab one please get at us with your impressions.

https://interdimensional.itch.io/super-combat-jr-ii/download/55aHAj78MwmRmHEX2c0lpGSXxQ29XA2570wP4zhn
https://interdimensional.itch.io/super-combat-jr-ii/download/0iCDR3IxAd2573nu8ZgM77sSinJdN1EtXFWOo5E0
https://interdimensional.itch.io/super-combat-jr-ii/download/maCimhc58Uo1NQXA6vF63RxdFG13Ddq06EM518ZJ
https://interdimensional.itch.io/super-combat-jr-ii/download/qYUe4yHxXsNzR43XIS0iJ9IEf37gwDRk4iE8A5tZ
https://interdimensional.itch.io/super-combat-jr-ii/download/1MLMzg4ePNOjCCf0eB0HfaP9HWV17P803j389F8d

Right now the sprites are really dark, tiny, washed out and the items float weirdly around them. The end result is that you can't really see your character, and that's bad in a game where you will have four people running around on the same screen trying to hit each other. Try some contrasting colors and fix the lighting on the sprites. Also that coin thing at the end of a round is dumb. Here is my lovely mspaint attempt to show you what I am talking about.

# ¿ May 26, 2016 06:23

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

anothergod posted:

Btw, I get that really genuinely playing a game is a thing the takes effort and like who the gently caress am I to ask randoz for effort. It's more Smash or Towerfall than a traditional fightman, so I get that you wouldn't like it. I also get that it's weird and different and it breaks a lot of video game rules so, like, whatever I *get* that you guys don't like it. I'm just trying to make it easier if you want to try to like it, ya know? I dunno if you're serious about dhamster's approach to game criticism - I mean, fucker played it on the worst graphic settings and was like, "LOL MSPaint Art guyzzz" - like if you want to treat that like "real criticism" that's your choice. My best argument that our game is in fact pretty not poo poo is "please play our game". I was nice about it initially because I had hoped someone else played it and was like, "I dunno guys, maybe he's onto something?"

I used the default graphics settings, besides lowering the resolution so that I could comfortably play the game in a window. If you want to write me off as a fucker for telling you that you that you should make your characters easy to see, I don't think anyone in this thread can help you.

# ¿ May 26, 2016 17:49

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

anothergod posted:

I'm sorry, dude. I'm unsure if you honestly tried to make this thing work or if you were just looking for the fastest way to make fun of the game. I mean the screenshots were cropped images of unlit areas that were totally different than all of the media I'd shown and it looked like a complete joke especially with the MS Paint dude you drew on top of it.

Well, part of what I was telling you was to fix the lighting.

If that is supposed to be an unlit area, you can't tell by looking at the ground: it is the same monochrome orange as everywhere else. No shadows, no shading. All the lighting seems to do in that stage is to darken your character sprite if you aren't very close to those torches. I think I remember watching a game dev talk by a GG developer where they talk about doing the opposite: tweaking the lighting so the character's face is always visible.

The MSPaint guy was meant to be a crude example of a character colored to contrast with the stage, and without a weapon floating directly on top of its sprite. The latter is an inconsistency I noticed: the weapon will be on your back unless you turn to face forward, at which point it will float in front of you. Oh, and I got rid of the weird victory coin.

dhamster fucked around with this message at 19:10 on May 26, 2016

# ¿ May 26, 2016 19:06

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

https://twitter.com/daromeon/status/737663204101230592

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 15:15

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Kuvo posted:

Neo Turf Masters

Does this game have a training mode of some kind? I keep trying to get Fernando Almeida's one frame layup links just right, but I end up getting bodied by Frank Adams scrubs doing his drive chain. It's unsafe as hell but I can't punish it with the game's one-stroke input lag.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 17:31

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Is it worth it to get sign if I have a PC, since I have no idea when revelator is coming to my platform?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2016 17:59

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Speaking of MAME abortions, there is an old MAME arcade cabinet in a basement lounge in the building next to where I work. I mostly got it working again, except a couple of the buttons on the 2P side don't work. Is there an easy way to take the plexi off and replace the buttons, or do the design of these things differ from cabinet to cabinet? I can take a photo if that helps.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2016 07:04

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

http://m.imgur.com/a/uXiS7

Alright so here is the MAME cabinet in the lounge I was talking about. Some of the buttons don't work. To service or replace them do I just unscrew the plexiglass and turn it over?

# ¿ Jun 6, 2016 21:47

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Thanks, I'll probably take a look at it this week. Maybe I'll order some Sanwa buttons for it, or swap in the stock Qanba buttons I have lying around

# ¿ Jun 6, 2016 23:25

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

http://m.imgur.com/a/Pp0La

MAME arcade cabinet update: Unscrewed the plexiglass but it wouldn't come off. Maybe there is some other way to open it up? I noticed the cabinet is hinged. Should there be some way to open that hinge up?

# ¿ Jun 7, 2016 21:46

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

If only Marvel could get into the fighting games business somehow. Hmm..

# ¿ Jun 8, 2016 22:49

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Reflexes aren't important if you have mastered Yomi, the Japanese art of reading my book. Get it on Kindle and I'll send you a well done steak, free of charge.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 04:01

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Mattavist posted:

STICKCHAT

I decided I wanted to learn how to play on stick, so I ordered a new plexi from Art and reworked one of my hitboxes.

nice stick

# ¿ Jun 12, 2016 07:42

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

By the time sf6 comes out, dogs will wear pants. Mark my words. Sorry for spoiling the future for you guys.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 04:12

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

How does Tekken compare to SF or 3d fighters like SC? Is it closer to a 2d or 3d fighter? It looks pretty cool from those gameplay vids, I noticed people seeming to sidestep attacks and such.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2016 20:28

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Ultramega posted:

Played USF4 yesterday after the longest time and I managed to pull off wrath of the raging demon on my friend and yelled SUCK ONE THOUSAND DICKS.

For awhile I thought it was "I want sausages"

# ¿ Jun 19, 2016 17:29

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

XRD for $20 seems alright while I wait for Revelator to come out on PC

# ¿ Jun 23, 2016 21:11

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Skullgirls is probably worth it at its current price. I laughed out loud at the first time I saw Squigly do that move where she knocks the opponent into a grave

# ¿ Jun 24, 2016 00:37

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

In Training posted:

A good idea would have been, instead of spending all the money they did on renting out that concert hall, they announced a 10 grand pot bonus for a classic game a few months ahead of time to highlight an old favorite. That's what I would do if I was mr wizard

Guilty Gear 2: Overture

# ¿ Jul 2, 2016 00:55

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Serenade posted:

Hello, I am the token local hitbox user.

What the gently caress is that thing for, why is jump there, why are the two tilt buttons there, lol this is a melee stick and I think that means it won't work with smash 4

this is some mixture of the sunk cost fallacy and insanity

I guess because the gamecube stick is analog and smash cares how you move the joystick, you need four button for "tilt" movements and four for "smash" movements. Maybe it'd be better if there was just a fifth button near the 'analog' inputs which you could hold down to convert those to "tilt" motions? Maybe not, I guess. No idea why the "tilt" buttons wouldn't help you tilt the shield too, either. Anyway it looks like there's way too many freaking buttons and there wasn't any thought put toward ergonomics--don't normal hitboxes curve the rows of buttons and have a big honking jump button in the middle?

Anyway I'm sure they'll make a ton of money off it from smash players, so good on them.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 04:21

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

VigilantePrime posted:

If only there was an easy way of representing analog movements with an input device.

well that's part of the reason a smash hitbox is kind of a dumb idea, at least compared to doing an analog fightstick. then again that might be hard to work with too, since smash uses so many goddamn buttons

e: found this lmao

dhamster fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jul 8, 2016

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 05:09

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Real hurthling! posted:

no way

yes way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9vA7iWaPHo :laffo:

my sides

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 05:17

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Dusted off my old Sega Genesis, bought a couple of these and a $5 copy of Super Street Fighter II and had a great time. I forgot how nice the Genesis pad was for fighting games.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2016 05:46

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G8OPsz6E_c&t=677s

Didn't realize it was a "thing" to cheer on each hit of a super. Pretty cool

# ¿ Jul 19, 2016 17:01

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Xeom posted:

Over 20 matches and two wins. I see what people mean now.
These games have no play skill gradient at the lower level. There is literally an ocean between a new player and even the lowest tier.
Maybe its the lack of players at the bottom, but god drat not even RTSs are this bad.

I can have someone login to SC2 right now who has only played RTS a few times, and within a few matches have them win some.
Mostly because there will be someone at their skill level, and because the game is not completely opaque.

Even at the rookie tier I'm facing people with solid fundamentals. This poo poo is going to be a real loving slog.

Losing can teach you more than winning sometimes. Try giving yourself a mini objective to shoot for in each round, like pulling off a certain basic hit confirm a few times. Keep getting blown up by jump ins? Learn a good anti air option for your character and try to land it cleanly a few times during the match.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2016 04:44

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Dias posted:

"never jumping, always anti-airing and not doing risky poo poo".

Mintergalactic posted:

i've got no idea what game you're playing or who you play in it but you should block more and don't jump so much

# ¿ Jul 21, 2016 04:56

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

hey everyone check out this new gimmick I just came up with: monkey island gifs

# ¿ Jul 21, 2016 15:36

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

hard finger puzzles
and reading the opponent
please buy my e-book

# ¿ Jul 21, 2016 17:21

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Fayk posted:

We've gone like a year (or maybe I just missed it) without a closed-minded new person showing up with a chess analogy again.

Curious to see what this is referencing. Always enjoy some good :smug:

anothergod posted:

I don't know what other people are saying itt, but my favorite fighting games are as much about having answers to other people's bullshit as boxing is about putting on gloves.

AnonSpore posted:

But having answers to other people's bullshit is really loving important in fighting games

Speaking of David "Top Round" Sirloin, he actually had a decent writeup on using bullshit to win games (if you can skim past the self-aggrandizement):

quote:

I�ll now tell the story of one of my own Street Fighter tournament victories. The tournament was called the East Coast Championships 4, or ECC4. I won the Street Fighter Alpha 2 portion of the ECC3 tournament, so I felt a lot of pressure to win again. I made it to the finals where I faced veteran player Thao Duong. Thao plays only one character (Chun Li), and he�s incredibly robotic, meaning he executes moves perfectly and rarely makes mistakes.

I was undefeated in the tournament so far, and Thao had one loss (it was double elimination format). This means Thao had to beat me 4 out of 7 games to be even with me, and another set of 4 out of 7 to win. I only had to win one set of 4 out of 7 to win.

I started by playing Zangief, my secret counter to Chun Li. Because it�s widely believed Chun Li totally destroys Zangief (but not mine!), it would be a flashy way to win. Whether it was my year of no practice or Thao�s playing skills or Chun Li�s dominance of the game I can�t be sure, but Zangief was not up to the task that day. No problem, since I would switch to my standard Chun Li killer: Ryu. I scraped together a win or two, but again my lack of practice was showing and Thao won by greater and greater margins. I then realized the horror of what I would have to do, and what I would become somewhat famous for in the Street Fighter community. I realized that the only remaining character I could reasonably play in a tournament was Rose, and furthermore that Rose, though very good against most characters, really only has one effective move against Chun Li: low strong.

This is where Sun Tzu comes in. My use of Rose�s low strong move is both a method of winning before fighting and of waiting. The low strong is an uninspiring little punch that doesn�t have all that much range, but it has amazing priority to beat other attacks. It�s also incredibly fast, allowing Rose to do multiple low strongs in a row with only the tiniest of gaps in between.

The low strong was my brick wall�my first test. The only problem is that there was no second test. And worse yet, there really wasn�t much �actual fighting� in store for Thao should he get past my �trick.� I could only hope that he�d fumble in trying to get around it, and even become frustrated enough to make mistakes. In retrospect, this is not the best approach to take against the robotic master of move execution himself, but it�s still preferable to no strategy at all, which was my alternative.

I low stronged my little heart out. Probably over 90% of my moves were low strong, done at a very particular range, and with a particular pattern of timing that I dare not reveal (let me keep some secrets). I had infinite patience to low strong forever, forcing Thao to defeat this trick. If he could beat it, we would then have to actually play, and at that point surely he would win. But fortunately, he never did beat it: he fought it head on. At times, he would decide not to attack, not to beat against a brick wall. I used that opportunity to get at the optimal range (which is one pixel farther from him than the range of my low strong). From this range, I continued to low strong forever. I wasn�t winning by doing that, but I wasn�t losing either. Even the robotic Thao would eventually tire and attack, sometimes at the wrong times out of annoyance or desperation. Spectators reported that I did an amazing 18 consecutive low strongs without either myself or Thao doing any other moves.

A side effect of my low strongs is that they create a �baseline expectation� of what I�m going to do. The sneaky roundhouse I do after the 17th low strong is pretty tricky, actually. I mean, wouldn�t you expect an 18th low strong after the 17th one? (Note: I was actually even more sneaky by doing the 18th low strong, then the low roundhouse.)

My story is dragging on as much as that match did. Each game is best 2 out of 3 rounds, and games tended to go the full 3 rounds. They went the full count of 4-3 when Thao won the first set, and all the way to the 14th and final game, where I won 4-3 in the second set to win the tournament. I collapsed in dehydration and drank a quart of red Fierce Berry Gatorade without pause. Even today, Fierce Berry Gatorade tastes like victory to me, but I digress.

Had I ever actually fought Thao �normally� with Rose, he would have killed me easily. Instead, in an amazingly boring and non-crowd-pleasing show, I attempted to prevent actual fighting through my �brick wall trick� of low strong. Furthermore, I bored my opponent into attacking hastily at times, and generally frustrated him, or at least think I did.

It�s interesting to note that early rounds of Street Fighter tournaments are often dominated by �tricks� like the ones I�ve described. Few players have the will to keep those brick walls up forever, though, and eventually resort to �actually playing.� Also interesting is that the last rounds of Street Fighter tournaments�especially the finals round to determine the top two players�very rarely operate anything like I�ve described. Far more often, the players good enough to get the final two are also good enough to easily avoid the kind of roadblocks I�ve been talking about, even if they have to devise countermeasures on the spot. The usual case at such high levels of play is �actual fighting� right off the bat, the very thing I try to put off as long as possible in a tournament match. So it seems that (my own exploits excepted!) tricks will only get you so far. Above a certain level of play, you must actively try to win the game, not just wait for the opponent to hand it to you. To the benefit of the spectators, when the best face the best, there are more often two bloody, clashing swords than a sheathed one.

In other words, if you test some bullshit on a player and find that they don't have an answer to what you're doing (throwing them over and over again, etc), you should probably keep doing it until they figure out how to stop you

# ¿ Jul 22, 2016 20:01

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

punk rebel ecks posted:

To be fair when I played your game I certainly felt it was about finding questions. Questions such as: Where is my character? Why do I keep getting lost? What is the point of this game?

Unfortunately I never received any answers.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2016 20:12

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 20:06

dhamster: Aug 5, 2013; I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

AndyElusive posted:

You didn't reference Sun Tzu so your summary didn't make any sense to me.

"'Know yourself, know your adversary, and you hold the key to victory' -Sun Tzu" -Dexter, Ash Ketchum's Pokédex

# ¿ Jul 22, 2016 20:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Fighting Games: the casuals are coming for your niche and you better be afraid

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