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 Hi! This is the SA Fighting Game Thread, where we post a bunch of snarky poo poo about video games that we secretly love. Fighting games can be really intimidating to get into for new players: there's so much to know that it can be hard to figure out where to start. If you've caught some matches of Street Fighter on stream and wanted to understand it better, or mashed your way through Story Mode but don't feel like you really get FGs strategically, this OP should help you get started.  Join the Goonsgarden Discord to play your favorite game with goons! It's easy you idiot just do it. So what distinguishes "Fighting Games" from other genres, and why do people nerd out so hard over them? Basically, they’re competitive in just about the most immediate way that exists in video games. There are no teammates you can blame when you lose; no abstracting away of your mistakes (or accomplishments). If you gently caress up, you get hit. If you don’t win, it’s because someone outplayed you, and the next step is to figure out how. When you do win, it’s not because someone carried you or whatever; it’s because your poo poo worked. Unlike beat-‘em-ups, where you cooperate with buddies to beat up mindless NPC enemies, or arena/party games, where 4+ people run around throwing items at each other or trying to knock each other off the stage, fighting games are explicitly 1-on-1 combat competitions. Consistency, dexterity, and psychology are all part of what it means to have skill in a fighting game. Beating a skilled player requires having a thorough understanding of what your character can do, and applying that against the player (not just character) you're facing. This simple dynamic is the genesis of countless emergent strategies, and the better you understand the fundamentals, the more you'll appreciate what the pros are doing in matches. Fighting games, far more than any other genre in gaming, are driven by an extremely dedicated community of fans who take it upon themselves to ensure the longevity of their scene. The tournaments that form the backbone of the fighting game scene are run by fans, for fans. This year's annual Evolution tournament in Vegas was attended by top players from around the U.S., Japan, Korea, U.K., France, China, Mexico, and beyond; it received mainstream media coverage, drew millions of unique stream viewers, and played host to new announcements from Capcom and Namco's top producers. Evo was not created by Capcom or Namco to publicize their games; it's not run by GameStop or some "e-sports" league that intends to televise it for profit; it was organized by a small group of guys who simply love fighting games. This is a small, tightly-knit community that paradoxically spans the entire globe, and few people can really say that about their hobbies. For some people, playing these games amounts to cracking a beer, picking the coolest-looking character, and mashing buttons as fast as possible until someone ends up winning. That’s cool, and if this is how you enjoy the game most, then more power to you! But if that's all you're interested in doing, you're probably not reading this thread, so I'm going to assume you're at least a little curious about how more advanced gameplay works. So let's talk about that...  Very loosely put, most fighting games are about two things:
 fighting game nerd David Sirlin, are specifically about the basics of Super Street Fighter II Turbo (aka "Super Turbo"), but the fact is that they generalize extremely well to other 2D fighting games, and more abstractly to 3D fighting games as well.Beginner Tutorial Concepts covered: Controlling space (zoning), normals/specials/super moves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4 Intermediate Tutorial Concepts covered: 2-in-1s, combos, cross-ups, pressing the advantage, meaties, reversals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCapuhsOMcg Other learning resources: Footsies Handbook - A multi-part beginner’s guide to what people mean when they say "footsies." If you're playing a game like Street Fighter and feel like you're not sure what to do during the neutral game (when both you and your opponent are standing up and moving around freely), this is a great place to start. Shoryuken FG Term Glossary - This has a lot of niche terms and isn't super thorough in its explanations, but it is a fairly large list and it's worth checking if you hear something you don't understand. Additional terms you'll see tossed about in fighting game discussions are listed in the Advanced Terminology section of this post.  If you’re looking to learn fighters more seriously for the first time, the most important thing is that you pick a game that you think looks cool and that you'll enjoy playing. That's going to keep you motivated to keep improving, which is ultimately better than forcing yourself to play something that doesn't really click for you. That said, let’s talk about what the loose archetypes of fighting games are, and then what specific games are good to pick up at the moment. Styles of Fighting Games This is one of those things that players love to argue about, but since I’m the one writing this post, I’m gonna break it into 3 categories:
Current Game Recs
If you want to play with goons who can help you learn the above games, I recommend picking them up for PC and joining the goon Discord.  Let's face it: to the uninitiated, "frames" is a dirty word. It's a common misconception that people who are really into fighting games sit around all day memorizing frame data, and that this encyclopedic knowledge is somehow instantly accessible and applicable in a real match. In truth, having a basic understanding of what people mean when they refer to various types of frames is simply useful in comprehending exactly what you're seeing in a game, and it goes a long way toward making the finer points of fighting games easier to grasp. Reading this summary will make it easier to digest some of the advanced terminology you'll see later, so before you get all huffy about not wanting to bother with that nerdy frame-counting bullshit, just relax for a minute and give it a shot. As you probably know, any given move you're seeing on screen is comprised of multiple frames of animation. Exactly how many frames determines how fast the move is. For fighting games to function on a technical level, each move has to have some hard-coded properties for what each frame of the move represents: in the header above, if Ryu is just starting to perform a punch, should he mysteriously damage the other player if they're standing next to him? Of course not; the damage should occur when his fist is extended, and the punch (or rather, the hidden hitbox representing the punch) actually connects with the opponent on the screen. The frames of animation leading up to Ryu's fist actually hitting his opponent, then, can be thought of as startup frames; they're the frames that happen after you've pressed the punch button, but before Ryu is in a state wherein the opponent will actually be punched. The frames during which Ryu's fist is considered an active, damaging object are the active frames. And the frames after Ryu's punch is completed, during which he is recovering from his attempted attack, are recovery frames. Not so painful, is it? So, when you see numbers representing frame data, what you're really seeing are the following:
Attacks that leave you with frame advantage on block/hit (or at least, a small enough disadvantage that your opponent has no guaranteed way of damaging you) are generally considered "safe." Attacks that leave you at a severe disadvantage on block/hit are considered "unsafe." This means that you shouldn't be throwing out unsafe moves unless you're sure they'll hit in your current situation, else your opponent gets a free opportunity to punish you for the mistake. Because of the emphasized nature of blocking and punishment in 3D games, you'll often see frames discussed more heavily there than you might in Marvel or Street Fighter. In a game like Tekken, it is somewhat useful to know which of your character's moves will come out quickly enough to punish blocked moves from your opponent, and looking at punishment guides (which use frame data) is sort of a cheat sheet for seeing what those moves are. However, even in this case, learning which moves are useful for punishing mistakes is something you can absolutely learn intuitively by simply playing the game; memorizing numbers is never a necessity.  Canceling - Canceling refers to connecting one move to another in a way that reduces the recovery frames of the first move, and usually allows you to combo moves together that otherwise would not be fast enough to connect to each other. It's most often used in the context of connecting a normal to a special move, or a special move to a super move, and is done by simply inputting the next move before the current move is done being performed. The most common notation for cancels when talking about 2D fighters is "xx," so if you see a Ryu combo that reads c.MK xx hadouken xx shinkuu hadouken, you would press down + medium kick for the crouching MK, then cancel it into a fireball by performing the quarter-circle forward and punch while your kick is still going, then cancel that into his super fireball by doing the super fireball input while Ryu is doing the first fireball. If canceling didn't exist, Ryu would be sitting there recovering from his kick for way too long to throw a fireball and have it connect as part of the same combo. Canceling normals into each other is the basis for chain comboing, which is discussed below. "Chains" vs. "Links" - A chain combo is a string of moves wherein the beginning of one move in the string cancels the recovery frames of the previous move; i.e., the moves "chain" together smoothly and are done simply by pressing one button after the other, usually with fairly even timing. Conversely, links are sequences of moves wherein each move has to completely finish its recovery animation before you can do the next move in the string. This often means that more precise timing is required, because you're left with a pretty small window during which your opponent is still "reeling" from the previous hit (i.e., they're in hitstun) while you perform the next move in the sequence. Games with a stronger emphasis on chain combos include Darkstalkers and Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Street Fighter IV more strongly emphasizes links. Tekken has a mix of each, technically speaking. Damage/Hitstun Scaling - Because of the huge damage potential that combo systems create, many games institute a sort of proration system to put limits on what is possible through combos. Damage scaling refers to the gradual decrease in damage that your attacks do as your combo gets longer, so a hard attack done as the 5th hit of a combo does a lot less damage than it does when it's the 1st hit of the combo. Similarly, hitstun scaling is a gradual reduction in the amount of recovery time your opponent has after each hit. The latter is basically a failsafe to help prevent infinite combos from emerging, since eventually your opponent will recover so quickly from being hit that further comboing becomes impossible. There are mixed opinions about this mechanic in the fighting game community. You may also see these terms referred to as hitstun deterioration, proration, reduction, decay, etc. Option Selects - An option select is a situation in which one input (or set of inputs) can result in multiple outputs, depending on which output is best for the situation. Example: in Street Fighter IV, throws are broken by inputting light punch (LP) and light kick (LK) at the same time when your opponent attempts to throw you. By pressing down-back + LP + LK while on defense, you create an option select: down-back blocks low, so if your opponent is in the middle of an attack (standing or low), the game engine ignores your LP and LK inputs in favor of blocking the attack. If your opponent attempts to throw you, the LP + LK input will break the throw. If your opponent does nothing, the game engine prioritizes the crouching (down-back) and LK inputs, and your character will do a c.LK, which is usually a very quick/safe move. The term is a bit obtuse, but you can see in this situation that one set of inputs results in three different "options" to select from. Usually, option selects are not the result of some intentional design decision from the developers, but rather a quirk of how are engines process and prioritize inputs. Reads/Hard Reads - Not really just a fighting game term, but since it’s in the thread title: people refer to a “read” when someone blatantly predicts what the opponent is going to do. You wouldn’t typically throw a shoryuken out there willy-nilly, because you’re hosed if it gets blocked. But in matches, you might see someone do one from neutral that somehow hits the other guy, seemingly without explanation. The reason is that he made a hard read: “I’m in your head and I know exactly what you’re going to do in this situation, so I’m going to blow it up.” You generally don’t want to try for too many of these, because if you’re wrong, you’re screwed. Resets - A reset is when you intentionally drop a combo to create an opportunity to start a new combo. This is done to maximize damage output by connecting 2 (or more) combos rather than just one complete combo -- i.e., it's better to do 4 hits of a 5-hit combo, reset, and get another 5-hit combo than to just land 5 hits in the first place. This is especially true of games that have severe damage scaling on longer combos, like Marvel vs. Capcom, since you're "resetting" the damage and hitstun scaling. The risk, of course, is that any time you drop a combo, you give your opponent an opportunity to block or escape further damage, so the most effective resets are those that are done unexpectedly, or in ways that are very confusing/difficult to escape. Shimmy - This is a dumb word that was coined when Street Fighter V came out that basically just means “throw baiting.” You walk up to a dude as though you’re going to throw him, then take a tiny step back to get yourself outside of throw range. Because he thinks he’s about to be thrown, he does the input to break the throw, but now you’ve backed out of range, so he gets suckered into a whiffed throw animation and you get to punish him. It works in SF5 because the crouch tech option select (from SF4) doesn’t exist anymore, so there’s no foolproof way to break suspected throw attempts, and also because the throw range in the game is hilariously bad so you won’t get grabbed out of your shimmy. Throw Breaks, Techs, and Softening - "Teching" a throw refers to inputting a command in anticipation of your opponent's attempt to throw you (or as part of an option select) that results in you reducing the damage taken from the throw. In some games, you can break out of a throw completely and avoid any damage from it altogether. Other games only allow you to "soften" the damage from a throw, rather than breaking it entirely. This is typically done the same way a break would be done in other games; it simply varies based on what the commands for throws are in a particular game. Throw softening also usually allows you to recover from the throw quickly, rather than suffering a full knockdown. Super Turbo and the Darkstalkers series both use throw softening rather than throw breaks. If you have questions about other terms you've seen, or something isn't explained well enough here, feel free to ask in the thread.  Given the arcade roots of fighting games, it's no surprise that a lot of people prefer the feel of playing on arcade sticks. If you're used to the standard control pad and are thinking of moving to stick, be prepared to practice. There's definitely an adjustment period if you haven't played much on stick before, but once you're used to it, they're a lot of fun to use. Deciding what stick is the right one for you is a function of how much you care about three things:
Update: Time hasn't been kind to Mad Catz's current-gen sticks. Look at Qanba and Razer as better options for high-end sticks.Best Overall Qanba Obsidian  Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC Price: $200 Pros: Excellent all-around stick, Sanwa parts, clean design, PS4-friendly, cheaper than other top-end sticks. Cons: "Cheaper" isn't cheap, modding isn't quite as straightforward as with other sticks. Razer Panthera  Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC Price: $150-$200 Pros: Great stick, Sanwa parts, hinged design allows super easy access to internals for modding or repairs. Cons: Though internals are easy to access, aesthetic mods require some effort to get their stupid decal off the top and add your own plexi. Still Good Options Hori Real Arcade Pro 4 Kai  Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC Price: $150 Pros: Solid midrange stick from Hori, an established name for arcade sticks. Cheaper and more readily available than Mad Catz’s high-end sticks. Parts are easy to swap. Cons: Uses Hori proprietary parts instead of Sanwas. They’re not as terrible as most proprietary parts are, but you may end up wanting to swap them for Sanwas or Seimitsus. Other: There’s also a Vewlix version out there, which basically means it costs twice as much but you get a loving enormous surface area that feels more like playing on an arcade cab. Doesn’t travel well, though.  Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC Price: $200-$300 Pros: Mad Catz's current top-of-the-line stick. Uses full Sanwa parts, includes L3/R3 buttons and a touchpad, and the top panel has hinges so you can pop it open to dick around with the internals easily. Built-in compartment for the USB cord. The bezel and artwork are swappable so you can show off your favorite Naruto yaoi fan art. Cons: Pricey and in short supply. You may have to hunt around a little to get one, and it won't be cheap. Over time it's become clear that these sticks are prone to PCB problems, and you're SOL if yours breaks. Mad Catz FightStick TES+  Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC Price: $170-$250 Pros: Another high-quality stick from Mad Catz. Full Sanwa parts, L3/R3 buttons and touchpad. Built-in compartment for the USB cord. Bezel and artwork swappable. Cons: Doesn't have the hinged panel like the TE2+. But you can still pop it open with an Allen wrench (as with most non-TE2+ sticks) and replace whatever you want. Other: Slightly tighter form factor than the TE2+, and the color scheme is easier to work with if you're thinking of custom artwork or other mods. Cheaper/Entry Level Venom Arcade Stick  Consoles: PS4, PS3, PC Price: £65 Pros: Cheap, available in Europe, Sanwa buttons swap in easily. Cons: Harder to get elsewhere, joystick itself doesn't swap quite as easily (you'll need to either get a 5-pin harness or do some soldering), and you're probably going to want to swap parts because the stock ones are lovely knockoffs. Stick FAQs Q. I’m having a hard time adjusting to my stick. I’ve been thinking I should get an octagonal gate/hitbox/other gimmicky poo poo... A. Just stop. Many people fall victim to the mentality that if they just tweaked one more thing or looked for that tiny extra edge, THEN they’d really start to rank up. The thing that will make you better is practice. Octo gates actually screw with the effective throw ranges of diagonals in dumb ways and will make it harder (not easier) to consistently execute in the long run, and Hitboxes are the stick equivalent of Dvorak keyboards (“But they’re objectively better!!!” yeah we know but you’re still that geeklord who has to bring his own keyboard everywhere and doesn’t know how to type on qwerty). Q. Okay, so what should I change on my stick? A. Usually the first candidates for mods (particularly if you bought a bargain stick with low-end components) are:
Q. I just need a stick that works with my PC. Will console sticks work? A. Generally speaking, anything that works with PS3/360 or above should also work with your PC. This means you might save some money over the PS4 sticks described above, because you can look for last-gen sticks like the Mad Catz TE, TE-S, or FightStick Pro. Note that some games (like Street Fighter V for some loving reason) don’t have DirectInput support, but you can use Joy2Key or similar lightweight programs to translate your stick inputs into something idiot games like that can understand. Q. Do I need to learn stick to get good at fighting games? A. No. There are a lot of pad warriors out there in tournaments, further enabled by the fact that tournaments now let people get away with in-game macro buttons (e.g. using shoulder buttons as shortcuts for hitting 3 punches or 3 kicks simultaneously). Some stuff is easier to do on stick, and some stuff isn’t, but typically people who get used to playing on stick don’t want to go back to pad. It feels good + fun to smash bigger buttons, you should try it.  Goonsgarden Discord - Discord fully supplanted IRC as the hangout of choice for SA's fighting game illuminati.  Fightcade is, in its own words, “an online retro arcade gaming platform for netplay.” It uses GGPO’s rollback-based netcode to enable an unparalleled online play experience for lots of classic fighting games, from Super Turbo and the Street Fighter Alpha series to Vampire Savior, X-Men vs. Street Fighter, SNK titles, and tons of other poo poo. Folks who hang out in the goon IRC and Discord channels are almost always up for matches in one of these games, and the platform is free to use. Come hit us up for help setting it up and dive into some cool-rear end old games with us. Don’t play with abo though, that guy’s a dick.     Tekken 7 [Thread]  Injustice 2 [Thread] Guilty Gear and other anime poo poo [Thread] King of Fighters XIV [Thread] Street Fighter V [Thread]  Street Fighter 5’s content Tekken x Street Fighter (lol j/k)  Guilty Gear Xrd [Thread] Mortal Kombat X [Thread] Killer Instinct [Thread] Pokkén [Thread] Skullgirls [Thread] Ultra Street Fighter IV [Thread] Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 [Thread] Tekken Tag Tournament 2 [Thread] Injustice: Gods Among Us [Thread] Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate [Thread] Persona 4 Arena [Thread] Street Fighter x Tekken [Thread] King of Fighters XIII [Thread]  Streams Twitch - Basically all streams that happen for FGC events happen on Twitch. The most popular weeklies are on Wednesday nights: Wednesday Night Fights on Level|Up Live (West Coast) and Next Level Battle Circuit on TeamSp00ky (East Coast). There are also lots of regional events and major tournaments, which are less frequent and usually happen on weekends, all leading up to the Evo championships in July. News/Blog Sites iPlayWinner - Various fighting game news and a few guides, forums, and glossary. EventHubs - They occasionally get tidbits of information about upcoming games before anyone else, but also everyone who posts on it is kind of a retard. Level|Up - The west coast's biggest stream provider. Game-Specific Sites Shoryuken - The biggest resource online for Capcom fighters. Plenty of terrible human beings post here, but so do plenty of top players, and there is a lot of useful information to be found. Tekken Zaibatsu - The biggest Tekken community site online. Again, lots of awful people, but also many excellent players. If you're getting into Tekken or want to learn more about a character, start here. Dustloop - Great resource for Guilty Gear and BlazBlue guides, for beginners to experts. 8WayRun - Community site for Soul Calibur, if you still play that for some reason. VFDC - The aptly-titled Virtua Fighter site. Mizuumi - Wikis and information for poverty fighting games (Arcana Heart, Melty Blood, other anime fighters). Stick Stuff Shoryuken: Tech Talk - This is the section of SRK's forums dedicated specifically to joysticks and controllers. There are lots of useful threads here, including guides on modding your stick, various places to purchase replacement parts, and suggestions on what sticks to get. Focus Attack - Stick part supplier. Lots of options, competitive prices, and fast shipping. Probably the best place to start when you're looking for the basics (buttons, stick components, etc.). Paradise Arcade Shop - A married couple based in Hawaii, these two have very quickly become a popular source for stick hardware. The husband has come up with some innovative solutions to common issues with custom sticks, and they even do cute stuff like including chocolate-covered macadamia nuts with every order for all you fat hambeast goons out there. Art's Hobbies - Art is a member of the Shoryuken community who has built a small business for himself doing custom stick art prints and acrylic orders for people who want to modify their sticks. He is a really nice guy and he does fantastic work, so if you want to do something cool to make your joystick your own, you should check out what he can do. Amazon - Yep, you can even get stick parts here these days. As for this thread, try to adhere to the following friendly guidelines: 
Have fun! Brosnan fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Nov 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2016 19:43
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and simplifies some of the mechanics typical of other anime games. Guilty Gear is made by the same folks and has a very dedicated following, making it a great game to graduate to if you enjoy DBZ. It also has really solid in-game tutorials to help you learn some fighting game fundamentals.
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 17:18 |
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Using this post for goon stick galleries or some other similar nonsense.
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Apr 14, 2016 19:44
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For the record, anyone new to fighting games is required to watch every goddamn video on this page.
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Apr 14, 2016 20:25
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Too late, Page 2 videos are not required viewing.
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Apr 14, 2016 21:14
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John Murdoch posted:So just to be clear, the principle difference between a TES+ and a TE2+ (besides form factor) is that the latter is more modding friendly? That's basically it? Yeah, and probably not in a way that really matters all that much. If for some reason you have to mod your stick so often that not having to unscrew the lid is an attractive time-saver, you're probably in the minority.
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Apr 14, 2016 22:50
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I happen to like the TE-S shape more, for that matter. Plus the bezel is black instead of red/other colors, so it's one less thing to probably have to replace if you want your art/buttons/etc. to all be cool and matchy.
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Apr 15, 2016 00:35
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TEKKEN IS SUPER POPULAR AND GOOD YOU GUYS WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME
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Apr 16, 2016 20:43
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StabMasterArson posted:I'm managing to pull off things far more reliably with the stick than the pad, except DPs. I think I do prefer it. There are some good aspects to KI in terms of like, the feature set and stuff that the game comes with, but you are right that the game is about trading combos. The reason I didn't really suggest it as an intro game (even though I've heard the tutorial is great) is that KI's version of the neutral game is basically for one of you to be in a combo, and once you're in that mode, it's a weighted rock-paper-scissors game to see if the guy doing the combo actually gets to hurt you or not. If the current gen options that have actual player bases (SF5, Xrd, maybe KI/MKX) don't really interest you, consider picking one of the more popular Fightcade titles and just see if you can get some goons to teach it to you. Some of the Goonsgarden crew are total sharks and will just tear you up, but others will actually walk you through stuff if you pick a game that they like. I guess if I had to pick some examples of that:
Just make sure you spend some actual time learning whatever game you pick, rather than playing hopscotch. I think forums user Faffel got into fighting games with KOFXIII, put some real time into it, and then started branching out to other stuff. But you kinda need to at least understand fundamentals of at least one thing before you start playing lots of things.
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Apr 16, 2016 20:58
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whip posted:Why is Wang gone? Harada doesn't want us to have fun things (Like Craig or Kuma)
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Apr 17, 2016 22:30
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omg
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Apr 17, 2016 22:33
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It's a lovely stick, it's just one you could get cheaply and then replace all the parts on to make it functionally equivalent to a nicer stick.
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Apr 20, 2016 23:36
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Dias posted:Hah, apparently Namco got Akuma in Tekken by allowing Capcom to use their patented training mode stuff, no cash money involved. Probably helps that Harada and Ono are good buddies (thus SFxT, etc.).
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Apr 22, 2016 17:39
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KOF14 decided to look like a f2p Chinese MMO in favor of being able to make more characters; still failed to put Yamazaki in the game. Might as well have made the graphics good.
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Apr 25, 2016 17:37
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:i do, but doesn't SNK have a terrible record for netcode / ports even by Japanese FG dev standards They do but they actually tried to make KOFXIII PC be less terrible. Mixed results on that.
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Apr 25, 2016 18:26
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as halfway crooks posted:im good at dota and want to try something new, maybe a fighting game SFV is a pretty safe choice for the time being even though it's a little janky. Dota won't help you though, and Xbox controllers are like the worst devices for FGs.
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Apr 26, 2016 17:45
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Bringing a Dreamcast and not having a custom MvC2 mix permanently welded into it?? What are you doing with your life
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Apr 26, 2016 21:37
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Wanderer posted:I still have my twelve-year-old save on the retail edition that has most of everything unlocked, including almost all the colors, courtesy of countless nights spent leaving the game idling in training mode. Putting a MVC2 custom mix in there means I have to start over from scratch. I have done 0-100% unlocks at least 3-4 times on DC MvC2 thanks to VMUs being the dumbest loving idea ever.
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Apr 27, 2016 17:22
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inthesto posted:The best part of MUGEN is its community and how people on youtube brag that they made a character that can beat Violent Ken in AI vs AI battles Real talk though that Evil Ken and the other 2 chars the same guy did are really, really fun to play (in a wow-this-is-broken-but-in-fun-ways kinda way).
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May 5, 2016 17:47
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COTA doesn't feel that good to play.
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May 8, 2016 19:46
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It's also cool + stylish to be a Yoshimitsu who doesn't need a sword.
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May 10, 2016 18:14
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He's always had sword attacks, which are unblockable because it is a sword. Probably wouldn't be cool if he just used it all the time.
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May 10, 2016 23:36
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Dias posted:Controversial. MvC3 is a way better game than SF5.
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May 11, 2016 17:37
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SF5 does look a lot better than 4, for whatever that's worth.
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May 12, 2016 17:33
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Zand posted:this game should have just been put into the trash and remade. maybe selling less than sfxt will convince them to try making a good game instead of a baby game next time I dunno I get the sense that Capcom (/Japanese companies) have such a loving insane amount of hubris that they refuse to connect the dots on this poo poo. When you make a game like SFxT and then say it did badly because the FG market is saturated, it's hard to imagine it being possible to ever recognize when you've actually just made a lovely game.
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May 18, 2016 18:41
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Tekken has throws, command throws, air throws, crouch throws, ground throws, chain throws, hit throws, and throw launchers. Play Tekken.
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May 19, 2016 17:47
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Talkin' about throws made me remember how much I love Marduk and now I don't wanna play T7.
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May 19, 2016 22:10
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anothergod posted:Yes. It's Zelda x Street Fighter. We're showing off the multiplayer version. Right now there's 1 arena, but we're hoping to have another 2 by Memorial Day Weekend. I appreciate that you guys are actually trying to build something, get it in front of players, gather feedback, etc. So not having played the game, take this with a grain of salt, but here's how I first felt upon seeing it: The graphics style is kind of poisoning the readability of the whole game. It feels like you guys wanted to do something stylized and pseudo-retro, but didn't want to commit to doing full 2D sprite animation because it's hard and time-consuming, so you went with this isometric voxel thing instead. The thing is, every character just looks like a blob of blocks; you can't even tell what direction they're facing until you see them perform an action, and those actions aren't easy to understand. The generic dynamic lighting engine clashes even harder with that style; it washes out the colors and doesn't fit the neo-retro voxel vibe. This lack of cohesion communicates low production value to the player, whether they consciously realize it or not. It makes the game look "cheap," and it has functional implications for gameplay. This carries beyond the characters as well. I have no idea what the items assigned to the buttons in the UI are; I can't tell what the icons for the stages in stage select represent. I don't know why giant functionless coin things fall from the sky when a round ends, other than "we had access to a physics toolkit and we wanted to play with it." It still feels very haphazard and game-jammy, and if you guys are trying to move beyond that and make it a real title, you need to rethink how you would've built the game if you weren't just trying to get something done in 72 hours or whatever. There are also a lot of other indie titles with the same concept as yours, many of which have been featured at Evo and other fighting game tournaments in the past. TowerFall, Treasure Arena, Arena Gods, Samurai Gunn, and many others do the same thing, but with their own cohesive spin on the formula. Figure out why yours is different and build around that. (If the answer is "Ours is voxels w/ physics," then go all the way with it: have characters explode into a pile of blocks when they die, come up with cool weapons or powerups that explore that more, commit to refining the art style to be readable rather than using an out-of-place lighting engine and badly translated pseudo-Zelda sprites, etc.) Good luck at Combo Breaker. My experience at Evo was that people are pretty willing to engage with new competitive games, so it's a really good audience to try it out with. Basically if you aren't attracting a lot of attention there, you'll be hard-pressed to do it anywhere else.
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May 22, 2016 20:17
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anothergod posted:But then I watched the trailer and hilariously that's totally what it looks like. To be honest, I'm not worried about readability in motion or at a demo- check out the long plays. Unfortunately my feedback came after watching one of the long play videos (since the trailer communicated almost nothing to begin with, so it wasn't really useful for seeing how the game works). A game this simplistic does not get an excuse for not being able to tell what's going on visually, and visual readability/clarity is a completely different variable from player skill that is always, always important. The complex systems and interactions in a game like Dota take hundreds of hours to really get good at, but I can tell immediately that my dude is a dragon and your dude is a wizard on a horse and that I am spitting fire on you. Why can't I tell this when I look at your game?
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May 23, 2016 00:11
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anothergod posted:Harsh crowd! I'm going to hide in my computer hole until Combo Breaker now! Laaaters. I know it totally sucks to put a lot of work into something and then have people tell you that it's not there yet, but if you can, try to find value in what you're hearing now. After release, people won't give you reasoned and tactful feedback, they just won't buy the game.
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May 23, 2016 01:04
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For the two weeks we played Melty I just jumped around with a good normal into the same bnb that every char in the game can do and it worked reasonably well. Basically what I'm saying is it's an anime game so who cares about the mechanics
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May 25, 2016 17:10
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This is actually really well-animated -- not just because it's fluid and weird, but because it's fluid and weird while also still having totally readable attacks that make visual sense for a fighting game. It's amazing how many indie FG devs don't really seem to get that.
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Jun 1, 2016 18:12
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MKX is a good game if you're an MK fan, and if MK jank has always bothered you there's no reason to think they would suddenly start trying to cater to you now. It's also a better game in like every way than SFV, which is kind of a bummer.
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Jun 7, 2016 17:00
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MinibarMatchman posted:is it really a tragic and horrendous thing that people like MKX more than a game that was way less whole on release, or is this an extension of the prevelant "play guilty gear or eat poo poo" mindset Should I have posted a trigger warning before saying MKX is a decent game or do you think you'd still find a way to be weirdly offended
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Jun 7, 2016 19:28
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esp. Crank That
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Jun 7, 2016 20:27
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The customization system will probably be miles better than SFxT gems, because NRS is a way more competent dev studio than Dimps.
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Jun 8, 2016 17:22
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fadam posted:It's for the best. This way PC players won't dookie up threads bitching about how bad their port is like they did for MKX launch. idk the only bug I had with MKX PC was that I earned way more gold than I was supposed to be getting. Then NRS decided not to release DLC for PC so welp
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Jun 9, 2016 17:20
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Gammatron 64 posted:There was that whole thing with Aris on Cross Assault which was really inappropriate. I think that one sorta has a happy ending though because if I'm not mistaken, Aris did actually learn that his behavior wasn't acceptable and is a better person today. hahahahahaha
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Jun 9, 2016 17:21
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Here's a guy being Lei https://www.facebook.com/ign/videos/10153365925511633/
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Jun 9, 2016 19:06
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punk rebel ecks posted:I feel that there are any few people who describe the fighting game community as nothing but a bunch of Noel Brown's and Dark Prince's. I know you're kinda new to this but you would be surprised. There are people on these very forums who stumbled upon a stream from Evo, saw what they described as "a bunch of thugs," and turned it off to watch Minecraft or whatever. I don't really care to see the FGC go full e-sports because every time someone comes along and tries to force it it ends up feeling really fake and stupid, but it's really not a great look to outsiders when the reason they hear about anything having to do with competitive fighting games is that some bag of poo poo like Dark Prince or Aris is doing something stupid.
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Jun 9, 2016 21:00
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Baal posted:Paging Brosnan, Paging Brosnan yyyyeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Jun 17, 2016 22:35
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