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AccountSupervisor posted:Individuals involved in the production are also perpetuating the problem though. You cannot possibly think its fair to absolve the people making a profit from said financiers youre so willing to blame for the broken system. Actors and plenty of other creatives are greedy as poo poo too. Nobody above the line in this production is a starving artist. If Johansson refused a major role due to whitewashing, it would be a huge deal, and would set a standard that producers would have to take into account. She is personally to blame, because she is one of a handful of reliable box office draws and can actually make a real difference in a way few other people can. She needs to be given poo poo for this, because really, she isn't going to magically make ethical decisions because we wished she would really hard.
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Apr 17, 2016 08:47
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I thought people were supposed to be outraged that there weren't enough movies with strong female leads, does that not count anymore just because an anonymous stranger on the internet said that they were totally going to use CGI to make the cast look more asian despite the adaptation not being set in Japan.
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Apr 17, 2016 09:13
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Guy Mann posted:I thought people were supposed to be outraged that there weren't enough movies with strong female leads, does that not count anymore just because an anonymous stranger on the internet said that they were totally going to use CGI to make the cast look more asian despite the adaptation not being set in Japan. Paramount literally admitted they ordered the CGI test. quote:A test was done related to a specific scene for a background actor which was ultimately discarded. Absolutely no visual effects tests were conducted on Scarlett’s character and we have no future plans to do so.
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Apr 17, 2016 09:47
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Yeah gently caress scarlet johansson what a loving rear end in a top hat she's basically a criminal for taking this role i hope she goes to jail
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Apr 17, 2016 09:47
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Improbable Lobster posted:He's also an obnoxious POS and his video title makes it clear that he thinks people shouldn't be mad Do Buzzfeed articles break your brain?
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Apr 17, 2016 09:51
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You can't be mad at the vague, nebulous idea of a broken system and ever expect to see any change. Studios and such are the only ones with the capability to work against it.
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Apr 17, 2016 10:14
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Hodgepodge posted:If Johansson refused a major role due to whitewashing, it would be a huge deal, and would set a standard that producers would have to take into account. She has to fight to even get a lead female role, you realize she's one of maybe 3 actresses that ever even get this kind of opportunity at this scale? If she refused on these grounds, what would happen is they'd offer it to one of the other 2 white actresses, and if they refused, the movie wouldn't get made, end of story. And she's not magically going to get other lead roles instead, the only reason she even gets the opportunity is GITS happens to be an ultra-rare combination of a property with enough cultural cachet to get greenlit where the lead role is female and can't easily be replaced with a guy (which they would do in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it).
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Apr 17, 2016 10:19
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Guy Mann posted:I thought people were supposed to be outraged that there weren't enough movies with strong female leads, does that not count anymore just because an anonymous stranger on the internet said that they were totally going to use CGI to make the cast look more asian despite the adaptation not being set in Japan. This is a poorly thought out opinion 
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Apr 17, 2016 12:21
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Obviously they should have have just made Batou the protagonist, then they wouldn't have to worry about the shape of the lead actor's eyes.
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Apr 17, 2016 15:03
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bullet3 posted:what would happen is they'd offer it to one of the other 2 white actresses, and if they refused, the movie wouldn't get made, end of story. This is the only acceptable outcome to be honest. Guy Mann posted:Obviously they should have have just made Batou the protagonist, then they wouldn't have to worry about the shape of the lead actor's eyes. It would work. He has been a lead character in the past, such as the sequel movie.
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Apr 17, 2016 15:11
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There's plenty of people who would have preferred racist movies not being made at all than being made with the whitewash. If a movie doesn't get made, it doesn't decrease the chances of preempting someone in the future from getting it "right". I'm not going to put that much blame on Scarlet Johansson, but I reached the point, after seeing dozens of racial casting controversies, how it's clear sometimes actors have the power to say No but don't.
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Apr 17, 2016 16:08
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It's interesting to see all the people who were mad at Black Heimdall defend white the entire of Japan.
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Apr 17, 2016 16:47
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It's not like anime characters have "Asian eyes" in the first place. Makes sense to cast a wide eyed westerner!
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Apr 17, 2016 16:56
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I've always been fond of "anime characters are white" arguments. Like, that people sincerely argue all these Japanese characters, in Japan, are white, because they don't look like what a white person expects a drawing of a Japanese person to look like. It makes me wonder how these same people would react to if a Japanese person insisted the Simpsons are not american because they're neon yellow.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:10
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HorseLord posted:It makes me wonder how these same people would react to if a Japanese person insisted the Simpsons are not american because they're neon yellow. A better comparison would be a Japanese studio buying the rights to make live-action Japanese-language Simpsons movie for the Japanese market and then a bunch of hikikomori complaining that the movie uses Japanese actors.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:15
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HorseLord posted:I've always been fond of "anime characters are white" arguments. Like, that people sincerely argue all these Japanese characters, in Japan, are white, because they don't look like what a white person expects a drawing of a Japanese person to look like. You have to admit the argument makes sense though, after all Caucasians are the only race with naturally purple hair.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:17
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HorseLord posted:I've always been fond of "anime characters are white" arguments. Like, that people sincerely argue all these Japanese characters, in Japan, are white, because they don't look like what a white person expects a drawing of a Japanese person to look like. Hahaha that would be ridiculous, don't be silly.
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Apr 17, 2016 17:20
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I don't think casting ScarJo was racist, it is possible to reinterpret somebody else's story. It's not like the Departed was racist, or conversely it's not like Attack on Titan should have white Europeans even though they clearly are going for a European aesthetic. The cgi asian eyes though, loving lol.
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Apr 17, 2016 18:18
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There actually are still plenty people quite annoyed at The Departed and Edge of Tomorrow, even if you can argue it's less cynical than Ghost in the Shell or that Akira movie that refuses to die. Slightly new development: Paramount claims screen tests were done, just not on Scarlett Johansson. ScreenCrush is not backing down that their sources said it was done for ScarJo herself. My guess? Paramount is flat out lying. Paramount isn't above blatantly lying to protect their investment. Back before Star Trek Into Darkness, Paramount went out of their way to preempt any "Is getting Benedict Cumberbatch to play Khan whitewashing?" thinkpieces by flat out denying that BC was playing Khan. And it worked. Paramount also gave us a certain notorious piece of whitewash in 2010 and drowned that controversy in a bunch of lies and half truths.
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Apr 17, 2016 18:34
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SlipUp posted:I don't think casting ScarJo was racist, it is possible to reinterpret somebody else's story. It's not like the Departed was racist, or conversely it's not like Attack on Titan should have white Europeans even though they clearly are going for a European aesthetic. The cgi asian eyes though, loving lol. It absolutely is stupid pandering and pretty racist. The difference is The Departed and similar are total remakes of their source material. Even Attack on Titan hugely deviates from its source material. Like if they made a movie called Ghost in the Shell and it was set is dystopian cyberpunk New York or LA and had an all western cast I couldn't care less. That it's still set in urban Japan but has a bunch of western actors that all happen to be in the same internal affairs squad in Japan is dumb as hell and is the film's producers trying to simultaneously pander to both fans and their own box office prejudices at the same time. Cast and plot changes in stuff like Titan and The Departed have as much to do with budget and where they're being filmed and what talent they have available too. PARAMOUNT has the marketing clout and the $$$ that they could and should know and be able to do better than getting one big white star in and testing out digital Asian eye effects. They want to throw money at it but at the same time don't think it will succeed without mostly western principle cast, that doesn't inspire confidence. Then again Paramount also gave us The Last Airbender so....
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Apr 17, 2016 18:48
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Do we know that the GITS movie isn't set in Neo New York or whatever? I've not seen any info that the film is set in Japan.
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Apr 17, 2016 18:58
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Neo Rasa posted:Like if they made a movie called Ghost in the Shell and it was set is dystopian cyberpunk New York or LA and had an all western cast I couldn't care less. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they were going to do with the failed Akira movie (setting it in neo-new-york or some poo poo), and that didn't exactly stop people from hating it and yelling about the project
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Apr 17, 2016 19:04
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All You Need Is Kill also didn't already have two critically acclaimed movies, two TV shows and whatever Arise is already.
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Apr 17, 2016 19:11
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Comrade Fakename posted:Do we know that the GITS movie isn't set in Neo New York or whatever? I've not seen any info that the film is set in Japan. The synopsis from the OP's article is the following: quote:Based on the internationally-acclaimed sci-fi property, “GHOST IN THE SHELL” follows the Major, a special ops, one-of-a-kind human-cyborg hybrid, who leads the elite task force Section 9. Devoted to stopping the most dangerous criminals and extremists, Section 9 is faced with an enemy whose singular goal is to wipe out Hanka Robotic’s advancements in cyber technology. So the only real concrete detail is "Hanka Robotics", which isn't even that concrete. Everything else could easily be transposed to the US.
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Apr 17, 2016 19:13
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bullet3 posted:I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they were going to do with the failed Akira movie (setting it in neo-new-york or some poo poo), and that didn't exactly stop people from hating it and yelling about the project At this point, people should just avoid giving the studios the benefit of the doubt. Since their main concern is the bottom line, it's fair for people to presume the most cynical interpretation of a film project. Hollywood has a considerable amount of money and PR handlers to convince the public that what they're doing isn't racist; and it's mind boggling how often they trip up in even hiding their racism.
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Apr 17, 2016 19:16
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Echo Chamber posted:There actually are still plenty people quite annoyed at The Departed and Edge of Tomorrow, even if you can argue it's less cynical than Ghost in the Shell or that Akira movie that refuses to die. Neo Rasa posted:It absolutely is stupid pandering and pretty racist. Solid points that it's blatant pandering, but not so much about the racism. Other posters have mentioned that it's not definitively set in Japan yet, so we'll see about that. Consider this, where does the racist rabbit hole end? If they cast a Japanese lead, is it still racist to have white people writing a Japanese character, or a white person directing? If they have Japanese people writing and directing, is it racist to have a white studio profiting? If yes, then is it possible to adapt anything without problems of racism? Then on top of that, would it be racist to have only white studios with white writers, white directors, and white actors doing white stories? It seems that way. The Edge of Tomorrow and The Departed get more of a pass from you because they're total rewrites, couldn't it be argued that those are simply more thorough white wash jobs? Or is it racist for a white person to even watch the original Ghost in the Shell because we can't have an inherit understanding of the cultural baggage associated with the characters or the city it takes place in, leaving the piece incomplete and the viewing experience itself whitewashed? Echo Chamber posted:At this point, people should just avoid giving the studios the benefit of the doubt. Since their main concern is the bottom line, it's fair for people to presume the most cynical interpretation of a film project. Hollywood has a considerable amount of money and PR handlers to convince the public that what they're doing isn't racist; and it's mind boggling how often they trip up in even hiding their racism. Wouldn't every film ever be problematic then, and wouldn't you personally be guilty of participation by being a fan of film? SlipUp fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 19:36
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SlipUp posted:Solid points that it's blatant pandering, but not so much about the racism. Other posters have mentioned that it's not definitively set in Japan yet, so we'll see about that. People aren't just reacting to everything that's "problematic" (which is why I avoided using that word). Some people took issue with how an Asian actress wasn't seriously considered for the character, yet the revelation that they did those chop suey eyes screen tests revealed that the studio knew that maybe the character should have been asian after all. That's why I emphasize "cynicism". Getting caught lying and covering it up or contradicting yourself are usually good signs that there's more going on. Paramount and other studios has repeatedly got caught covering their asses. If they were seriously considering to digitally make the characters asian in post-production, then it's hard to argue that the idea of reimagining that story with white actors and a western setting was a product of some greater artistic vision. It's blatant consideration of pandering that reminds everyone that it's a cynical commercial product.
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Apr 17, 2016 20:06
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Echo Chamber posted:I'm going to give you the benefit the of the doubt and you're not just playing the whole "but what isn't racist?" card just because. I've already said the cgi aspect was racist, in much fewer words. I just don't think the casting itself is racist. This also doesn't address my question to you specifically. I do appreciate the benefit of the doubt, if not the implication of that. SlipUp fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 20:10
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phasmid posted:Yeah, Section 9s don't really have a great life. They made this a point in one of Arise episodes, being part of section 9 is a way to maintain their cyborg bodies. Kuze's cyborg body lost the ability move its mouth when talking and lost color in his hair when he left the army from the lack of maintenance. They also made a point that Togusa is really the odd man in the group because he has not received any cyborg augmentations and he has a wive and kid. Only other person with that kind of background is Aramaki, it makes it look like he is teaching Togusa to one day take over the team. Neo Rasa posted:Even Attack on Titan hugely deviates from its source material. The author requested that the movie be completely different. Don't think Ghost in the Shell will have to worry about that, I don't think Shirow really had a part in any of the movies or series. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 20:44
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maybe she's playing a white-looking cyborg body with a japanese brain inside e: actually i bet this is what it is, and the asianification screen test was for a flashback scene when she's playing her original human self. i figured it out everybody Clipperton fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 20:50
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AccountSupervisor posted:Max Landis has actually confirmed that Jesse Eisenburgs Lex Luthor is basically an impression of him. wait, is this true?
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Apr 17, 2016 21:07
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So now we've covered Paramount's enquiry into building an electric yellowface machine, I'm wondering what a non-Japanese version of GITS could even be. The entire premise of the series comes from the history of postwar Japan, it's place in the world, how it's society relates to technology, and where that could lead to in the future.
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Apr 17, 2016 21:10
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actually the premise of ghost in the shell is 'what if an autistic comics artist had a lot of tedious opinions about robots?'
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Apr 17, 2016 21:48
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HorseLord posted:So now we've covered Paramount's enquiry into building an electric yellowface machine, I'm wondering what a non-Japanese version of GITS could even be. The entire premise of the series comes from the history of postwar Japan, it's place in the world, how it's society relates to technology, and where that could lead to in the future. The core of GITS is android police in cyberpunk land. You could set it pretty much anywhere.
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Apr 17, 2016 21:49
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Clipperton posted:maybe she's playing a white-looking cyborg body with a japanese brain inside There was a rumor of this, that when she's in cyberspace she looks Japanese and has blue/purple hair/etc. but from what Paramount said it really was just tests for the actors in general. The idea that the movie won't be set in Japan doesn't hold a lot of water with me given the supporting cast and also that we live in an age where there are two suicide forest movies out/coming out with no Japanese people in them. Speaking of people making the movie, I'm sure it was asked already but how the gently caress are the Wachowskis not directing this? Their entire resume is a build up to making Ghost in the Shell. Bound - Busty lesbians making out. The Matrix - Was literally pitched by showing clips from Ghost in the Shell and saying "We're going to do this but real." Ninja Assassin - Ridiculous blade/melee action. Speed Racer - The action involves trippy visuals in an almost alternate reality. Cloud Atlas - Wow souls are important even in different bodies so deep. Jupiter Ascending - Somehow easily the best live action anime movie. So basically every important part of Ghost in the Shell has been mastered by them.
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Apr 17, 2016 22:18
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anime characters are basically 90% white person 10% asian whats even the loving problem here if you wanted to try to make an accurate anime person irl this is how you would do it. though they arent even going for that cause no purple hair so whatever. they want to make money, she is a big name, she looks hot, its some stupid cartoon with a few fans, who cares if it is changed drastically, etc blah blah loving nerds i swear.
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Apr 17, 2016 22:53
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Mr. Unlucky posted:anime characters are basically 90% white person 10% asian whats even the loving problem here Yeah I'm sure that all those shows set in Japan with Japanese characters speaking Japanese are drawn to look like whitey
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Apr 17, 2016 23:27
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Neo Rasa posted:The idea that the movie won't be set in Japan doesn't hold a lot of water with me given the supporting cast and also that we live in an age where there are two suicide forest movies out/coming out with no Japanese people in them. They had "a" Japanese guy in the one that came out earlier this year. He told them not to search at night and that they should leave the forest.
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Apr 17, 2016 23:32
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Improbable Lobster posted:Yeah I'm sure that all those shows set in Japan with Japanese characters speaking Japanese are drawn to look like whitey The average viewer (especially children) watch the dubbed version of Animé shows. Often, there are at most only a few spoken links to Japan and in dubs those get filtered out. It also doesn't help that most (meaningful) onscreen text in most popular anime's is written in english. The average person on these forums and other anime forums might be aware of this, but to the average viewer does not. There's a reason why you see stuff like "I like animé a lot, but why does Japan make cartoons about Caucasian people?" pop up from time to time on various boards. The average human in an animé show doesn't look distinctively Asian, period. It's also why animé got so much traction in the west, because people (and especially children) can identify themselves with them. Batham fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Apr 17, 2016 |
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Apr 17, 2016 23:48
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Comrade Fakename posted:The core of GITS is android police in cyberpunk land. You could set it pretty much anywhere. No, the things that make GITS what it is are the things I mentioned. If "android police in cyberpunk land" was the entirety of it's high concept and cultural significance then it would not be Ghost In The Shell.
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Apr 17, 2016 23:50
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